Head gasket failure Peugeot 405

[Alration]

Easy.......It's French.

Ok point taken, we no longer allow French cars in the states, most British brands too now that I think about it, (oh sorry I mean Chinese brands) so I guess this anomaly is a kin to the British issues with electrics then? Seems maybe a solution would be for the French to engineer the British electrics and the British the French engines..

"we no longer allow French cars in the states, most British brands too..."

Bugattis are sold in US aren't they? They're French.

Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, McLaren, Lotus, Land Rover, Jaguar are sold in the US.

I know foreign companies own these names but they are still considered to be British just as Chrysler, owned by Fiat, is considered to be a US company.

[Gary A]

Just another reason to avoid foreign used cars. Especially a puke-oh. If you are buying a used car you are taking a risk but cars made in Thailand are by far the best choice. Most small garages are capable of repairing run of the mill Thai built cars.

[WarpSpeed]

Clare, the question always has to be WHY does the head gasket blow? I've only had one head gasket blow in my lifetime and that's even with high mileage and stock racing engines included, that one was on my race and had it's reasons too. There is some reason for all these head rebuilds, likely the previous owners abuse but still that needs to be considered when buying, there are always indications of some sort if one can look carefully enough.

But my point is that just replacing the head gasket and having the head shaved is usually just fixing the end result of other problems that need to be fleshed out first in addition.

Easy.......It's French.

Ok point taken, we no longer allow French cars in the states, most British brands too now that I think about it, (oh sorry I mean Chinese brands) so I guess this anomaly is a kin to the British issues with electrics then? Seems maybe a solution would be for the French to engineer the British electrics and the British the French engines..

Well British cars are or were as we have none (mass production) left even worse than the French for over heating and gasket failure, but it would spoil the incredibly witty one liner.

Well what really spoiled the incredible witty one liner was that I forgot about the Indian owned Jaguars, Range Rovers and the German owned Rolls, Mini's, Bently's and Mclaren's that are still sold in the US market .

Edited October 9, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Underlying causes have all been listed already in your previous thread with the Honda, a motor is motor beyond a bit of personal engineering differences by different manufacturers.

Sorry, I don't recall those underlying causes, will have a look... do you mean the fan, thermostat, or the water pump being broken in the past? That's what I find in the old thread. But obviously those initial causes have been fixed long since.. the fans spin, I've seen them myself, and I doubt the water pump could have been non-functional for the 3 weeks I drove the car before this problem arose. The point I'm making is, what difference does it make what caused the car to overheat many moons ago, if the residual problem is a - as is often the case - a warped head, or as is more rarely the case, a cracked block? Or are you saying that the problem may be that the system needs to be 'bled' - that there is air in it? Again I don't see how it ran for weeks like that... We could see by looking that there are zero water leaks from the hoses, radiator, etc. That leaves the thermostat - maybe this is just a bad thermostat?

I have to admit I thought it a bit strange that the mechanics were so quick to diagnose the head gasket, without checking the thermostat. Perhaps its just that in their experience the head's the cause 90% of the time, so they just jump to that conclusion.

No, no bleeding necessary, just cumulative damage from either a previous problem or a current one added onto the previous issues, hard to tell from this vantage point. But that's my point, the head should NOT be the problem 90% of the time. I'd say that more then 90% of the time something else began the snow ball that eventually leads to the head gasket blowing.

Edited October 9, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Easy.......It's French.

Ok point taken, we no longer allow French cars in the states, most British brands too now that I think about it, (oh sorry I mean Chinese brands) so I guess this anomaly is a kin to the British issues with electrics then? Seems maybe a solution would be for the French to engineer the British electrics and the British the French engines..

"we no longer allow French cars in the states, most British brands too..."

Bugattis are sold in US aren't they? They're French.

Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, McLaren, Lotus, Land Rover, Jaguar are sold in the US.

I know foreign companies own these names but they are still considered to be British just as Chrysler, owned by Fiat, is considered to be a US company.

There's always one who has take everything literally, but none of the models you mention are French, Chrysler is a different example altogether but now that FIAT owns it it is supporting them through the European slide, the Bugatti's for example are now VW group owned but were never French they were Italian by an Italian designer who lived in France for a time after he sold out. All the mentioned British brands are currently and long term have been owned by other nationalities. Now none of that has anything to do with the joke ..

[JAS21]

CQ is my memory failing me or didn't we go through all this head business with you before on another of your junks ... anyway rain today to something to read while sitting having my morning voffee

[JaseTheBass]

Britain still leads the way in London Black Cab production!!

[WarpSpeed]

CQ is my memory failing me or didn't we go through all this head business with you before on another of your junks ... anyway rain today to something to read while sitting having my morning voffee

His Honda. De ja vous.

[WarpSpeed]

Britain still leads the way in London Black Cab production!!

There is that...

[JaseTheBass]

Britain still leads the way in London Black Cab production!!

Foreign engines...?

Vdub diesels. Very green and economical apparently...

[JaseTheBass]

I had to look it up. They use Italian VM Motori engines in the UK spec cars and Mitsu where something more agricultural is needed and emissions aren't an issue.

[Lampang2]

I also owns a 405.

Only falangs are stupid enough to end up with one :-)

Thermostat needs to open earlier than standard values to give you margin.

I know it doesn't make sense but it works. A drilled hole in the flange.

I bought a mitsubishi L300 diesel as my 405 was such a regular customer at the shop I needed a second "car".

Probably will sell the 405 now or do the engine swap, but I don't see how that will pass dlt.

[ClareQuilty]

The Honda, yes. Now running strong & reliably for a few months after head gasket repair - a very encouraging tale.

About your Peugeot with the cracked block, phil, is it the 2.0 liter? Mines the 2 liter and thus has the cast iron block, other XU series engines are aluminium block. Which ones more likely to crack?

[Tywais]

The Honda, yes. Now running strong & reliably for a few months after head gasket repair - a very encouraging tale.

About your Peugeot with the cracked block, phil, is it the 2.0 liter? Mines the 2 liter and thus has the cast iron block, other XU series engines are aluminium block. Which ones more likely to crack?

Aluminum is one of the highest malleable and ductile metals there is. As such, it will more likely warp or deform before cracking. Of course it also has a much lower melting point than iron and as such can reach a warp point earlier than iron.

[arthurwait]

Britain still leads the way in London Black Cab production!!

There is that...

Chinese owned since 2012 after going bust.

[WarpSpeed]

^Ooops, familiar story, I've not been keeping up, now I'm caught up ... I was in the midst of relocation in 2012 had far more important matters of my own to tend.

Just remembered Clare, your Peugeot doesn't look like this one does it?

This was my neighbor during the floods, he jacked it up but as you can see the water line was still up on it several inches definitely flooding the interior and when the trucks and cars came by it was worse with the wake until the rafts came out finally instead.. Come to think of it one thing that was eerie during the floods was the silence, no loud trucks running up and down the streets with loud speakers blaring.

Edited October 9, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[ClareQuilty]

No, Warp, the car looks quite good - there are several pictures of the Peugeot in another thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/849455-considering-peugeot-405-however-weak-air-con/?p=9785007

So, I have a new question for all - is it possible to do a head gasket replacement and head shimming/shaving in one day? That's what my new mechanic claims he's done. I went by today and he said its all finished except he's going to replace one of the electric fan motors tomorrow, should be done by 4 pm. He said the head was 4,500, and the electric motor should be 2,000.

Should I believe him that he actually did the head that fast? It took my old mechanic two weeks for the same work on my Honda!

[Tywais]

So, I have a new question for all - is it possible to do a head gasket replacement and head shimming/shaving in one day?

That's all it took for them to do my Nissan engine. 2 liter, aluminum block. He just pulled it and had it taken over to a machine shop that has the milling machine.

[ClareQuilty]

So, I have a new question for all - is it possible to do a head gasket replacement and head shimming/shaving in one day?

That's all it took for them to do my Nissan engine. 2 liter, aluminum block. He just pulled it and had it taken over to a machine shop that has the milling machine.

Thanks Tywais. Its definitely an amazing turnaround, but I guess its possible. When I dropped the car off he seemed to imply that they were next door to the machine shop, and the staff were all super energetic young guys.

The engine did look cleaner, as if they'd been at work on it, though it wasn't a very dirty engine in the first place (not a good sign, I know - the most reliable cars always have the dirtiest engines).

[WarpSpeed]

No, Warp, the car looks quite good - there are several pictures of the Peugeot in another thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/849455-considering-peugeot-405-however-weak-air-con/?p=9785007

So, I have a new question for all - is it possible to do a head gasket replacement and head shimming/shaving in one day? That's what my new mechanic claims he's done. I went by today and he said its all finished except he's going to replace one of the electric fan motors tomorrow, should be done by 4 pm. He said the head was 4,500, and the electric motor should be 2,000.

Should I believe him that he actually did the head that fast? It took my old mechanic two weeks for the same work on my Honda!

Sure it's possible usually the machine work is what holds up the job but if he has a source that can do it quickly no problem, only an hour or 2 for that job and then the install, but for me it'd be pushing it, I don't like to push jobs though that quickly but at least you know they won't have it done in a day and tell you it'll take 3 or 4 days while they use it to run errands, although that is some times done for test driving more then a quick run around the block.

But now you're saying that there actually was a fan not operating? Ut oh! Especially with A/C running.

BTW Clare I saw the pics in the other thread, you sure took the wind out of the piss take though.

Edited October 10, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

So, I have a new question for all - is it possible to do a head gasket replacement and head shimming/shaving in one day?

That's all it took for them to do my Nissan engine. 2 liter, aluminum block. He just pulled it and had it taken over to a machine shop that has the milling machine.

Thanks Tywais. Its definitely an amazing turnaround, but I guess its possible. When I dropped the car off he seemed to imply that they were next door to the machine shop, and the staff were all super energetic young guys.

The engine did look cleaner, as if they'd been at work on it, though it wasn't a very dirty engine in the first place (not a good sign, I know - the most reliable cars always have the dirtiest engines).

What?? Where you did get THAT chest nut from? Dirty engines reliable? Nonsense, I always keep my engines virtually spotless as I do my own work and hate working on dirty engines plus they run cooler, and it's much easier to notice any fluid leaks sooner and work out where they are. I don't like when the fluids have been changed immediately before I purchase necessarily even if I have to pay after the fact, the fluids tell a massive story, but clean engine? No way! To me it shows the car has been taken care of and not run through the ringer, if it looks terrible on the outside you can only imagine what the inside looks like and it isn't pretty.

[VocalNeal]

Clare, the question always has to be WHY does the head gasket blow? I've only had one head gasket blow in my lifetime and that's even with high mileage and stock racing engines included, that one was on my race and had it's reasons too. There is some reason for all these head rebuilds, likely the previous owners abuse but still that needs to be considered when buying, there are always indications of some sort if one can look carefully enough.

But my point is that just replacing the head gasket and having the head shaved is usually just fixing the end result of other problems that need to be fleshed out first in addition.

Easy.......It's French.

Ok point taken, we no longer allow French cars in the states, most British brands too now that I think about it, (oh sorry I mean Chinese brands) so I guess this anomaly is a kin to the British issues with electrics then? Seems maybe a solution would be for the French to engineer the British electrics and the British the French engines..

These kind of post amuse me. The proposition that US cars are better than European.

If they are so good why are they not sold outside the US? Canada does not count as mostly the US models are made there. OK a few Buicks in China to prove the rule but... Yes one can buy cars from American owned firms like Ford, Opel/Vauxhall (GM) etc but they are not US designed or US built.

French cars are different. Vive la différence.

Back to the head gasket. Likely that the overheating was a leak somewhere else which caused.... or the car has been used for ions with no coolant added to the water, very common here, which resulted in corrosion somewhere which again caused a leak.

[JaseTheBass]

The new Mondeo is for the first time identical to the US spec model, hence the suspension is too soft and it is no longer the drivers car it was previously.

[WarpSpeed]

Clare, the question always has to be WHY does the head gasket blow? I've only had one head gasket blow in my lifetime and that's even with high mileage and stock racing engines included, that one was on my race and had it's reasons too. There is some reason for all these head rebuilds, likely the previous owners abuse but still that needs to be considered when buying, there are always indications of some sort if one can look carefully enough.

But my point is that just replacing the head gasket and having the head shaved is usually just fixing the end result of other problems that need to be fleshed out first in addition.

Easy.......It's French.

Ok point taken, we no longer allow French cars in the states, most British brands too now that I think about it, (oh sorry I mean Chinese brands) so I guess this anomaly is a kin to the British issues with electrics then? Seems maybe a solution would be for the French to engineer the British electrics and the British the French engines..

These kind of post amuse me. The proposition that US cars are better than European.

If they are so good why are they not sold outside the US? Canada does not count as mostly the US models are made there. OK a few Buicks in China to prove the rule but... Yes one can buy cars from American owned firms like Ford, Opel/Vauxhall (GM) etc but they are not US designed or US built.

French cars are different. Vive la différence.

Back to the head gasket. Likely that the overheating was a leak somewhere else which caused.... or the car has been used for ions with no coolant added to the water, very common here, which resulted in corrosion somewhere which again caused a leak.

Good it was intended to amuse, so the post was a success, as for the rest, well that's just nonsense and besides second only to VW GM was the second car company in China, not just Bu....icks either. A military friend of my missus in China had an old 70's Lincoln he rode around in and loooooved it and had no intentions of ever getting rid of it. No where was it ever suggested that American cars were better either, at least not by me. I've only ever owned a couple of American cars and they were nightmares in my younger years so it left a bad taste in my mouth and later styling was rubbish, now some are very nicely styled but still seem mostly over-priced and under performers to me for what you get in many cases so I opt for German and Japanese these days.

Edited October 10, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[arthurwait]

No, Warp, the car looks quite good - there are several pictures of the Peugeot in another thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/849455-considering-peugeot-405-however-weak-air-con/?p=9785007

So, I have a new question for all - is it possible to do a head gasket replacement and head shimming/shaving in one day? That's what my new mechanic claims he's done. I went by today and he said its all finished except he's going to replace one of the electric fan motors tomorrow, should be done by 4 pm. He said the head was 4,500, and the electric motor should be 2,000.

Should I believe him that he actually did the head that fast? It took my old mechanic two weeks for the same work on my Honda!

It's possible, but look at things connected to the head to see if they look like they have been taken off and replaced, gaskets on the bill, clean bolt heads that would have had dirt on them before.

I think your old mechanic spent a lot of time narrowing down the possibilities before he hit the nail on the head.

How was this car started for the first time after 5 years ? plugs out oil poured in or just started ?

[JaseTheBass]

Oil?!?

[ClareQuilty]

Guys I only had the big V8 style American cars from yesteryear: wouldn't fit well outside the US/Canada/Australia/Middle East & maybe Latin America or Africa.. But they were incredibly reliable & durable.

About the Peugeot, got it back today & its running great. Runs very cool, seems to run better overall, esp at very low engine rpms. Funny thing, after such good work, the left side stereo speaker isn't working all of a sudden! Always something.. Wonder how that happened.

Edited October 10, 2015 by ClareQuilty

[WarpSpeed]

^ They were jammin with your stereo maxed out while repairing your car.. Blew out the speaker no doubt.

Edited October 10, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[ClareQuilty]

^ They were jammin with your stereo maxed out while repairing your car.. Blew out the speaker no doubt.

Haha.. no. I'm sure its a short or other electrical problem. In fact it reminded me of the famous Peugeot nightmare about "remove the battery and the computer is scrambled".. hope its nothing like that..

[JAS21]

CQ ... I have a bet on with a friend that you can make this thread run until at least 6pm on Monday .... don't let me down will you