Bang Saray AD Lake Condo

[ace]

Anyone here live there?

I'm having an absolute nightmare with my condo there as there has been no juristic person since February I think.

I thought after the 2nd AGM they had solved this but there is still no-one appointed.

I cant get a straight answer out the manager, all they ever say is next month, next month, ad infinitum. My lawyer has given up on it. Says I can sue but not worth it.

I know there are some farangs there so if anyone has got any clue what's going on perhaps they could reply or PM.

Sorry for such a dull post but I'm really desperate as I cannot get the property I aready paid for or a straight answer out of anyone.

[KittenKong]

Presumably by "juristic person" you actually mean "juristic person manager"? The juristic person is the building itself, and is jointly owned by the co-owners. The JPM is someone who is appointed at an AGM to act for the building in dealings with management, staff, the land office, the world at large etc. The committee gives direction to the JPM.

You should have minutes of the AGM showing who was appointed as JPM (indeed you should have been at the AGM yourself and had a voting slip) and the management company should have registered the appointment at the land office within 30 days.

If no one was appointed, or if whoever was appointed has resigned or otherwise become ineligible, then the committee is required by law (condo act) to appoint one of its own as temporary JPM and to call an EGM within 30 days. The land office is responsible for policing this (if you can call it that) and if the law is not being followed you should complain there (take a Thai speaker with you).

"Next month, next month, next month" is totally par for the course for an incompetent and/or dishonest Thai management company, and it sounds like you may have one of those. You would be well advised to check the bank balances.

Do you have a functioning committee? Do they have meetings and are minutes taken and published? Have you contacted them? What do they have to say about it?

If all else fails then 20% of the co-owners can decide to call their own EGM, at which a new committee and JPM can be appointed (if anyone wants the job!).

[ace]

Yes, JPM. There was one who disappeared in February. There was an AGM but the management company, still being the developer, AD, messed it up somehow and couldn't register the JPM. End August an EGM, where another JPM and full committee were selected.

I thought they'd got it right but there's still no JPM 45 days later, at least as far as I can tell.

The issue is I believe mostly the utter incompetence that one has to have lived in Thailand to ever beleive is even possible.

The committee status is unknown. I suppose I can drive down and hang around the block bothering innocent civilians to see if they know what is going on.....

[KittenKong]

Disappeared? Did he take any building money with him? This happens, you know.

From the agenda and voting slips at the EGM you should know the names of the committee and JPM. The result should have been announced at the time. Your front office should tell you how to contact these people if you want to question them (which you are entitled to do).

I suggest that you arm yourself with that voting info and find a Thai-speaking person and go and see the Land Office. They should be able to tell you what has and hasnt been done in the way of registration.

[jimlackey]

Yes, there is mass confusion with AD Management and the Property Management companies they hire - now on their 3rd.

We have a LINE group and an email distribution list of concerned owners. If you send me an email with your name and email id I can connect you to both. My email is <deleted>

The 1st AGM was a joke and the 2nd one was somewhat more successful, although questionable tactics used. We were made aware of the "new" committee members at the AGM, but have heard nothing about it until today. Several condo owner Issues continue unresolved.

A good example of mis-management - apparently there is a committee meeting today where a few people "were" invited quietly to attend - no formal notice has been sent. However, one of the people who was invited has shared this information with the LINE group and I am about to send out a notice to the email list.

The meeting is at 1pm today (Oct 10) - location is a guess but likely building E. Below is the Thai version from LINE group

พรุ่งนี้วันเสาร์ที่ 10 ตุลาคม เขามีประชุมกรรมการ เวลา 13.00 น. ใครว่างลองไปฟังดู ว่าแนวทางของคณะกรรมการผู้กำหนดนโยบาย เขาจะเข้าทางใครระหว่างเจ้าของโครงการกับผู้บริโภค(ลูกบ้าน/เจ้าของร่วม)อย่างพวกเรา

I will be attending, but not hoping for much

/Jim

Edited October 10, 2015 by Rimmer
email removed as per forum rules, please use PM function

[KittenKong]

Yes, there is mass confusion with AD Management and the Property Management companies they hire - now on their 3rd.

.........

The 1st AGM was a joke and the 2nd one was somewhat more successful, although questionable tactics used. We were made aware of the "new" committee members at the AGM, but have heard nothing about it until today. Several condo owner Issues continue unresolved.

A good example of mis-management - apparently there is a committee meeting today where a few people "were" invited quietly to attend - no formal notice has been sent. However, one of the people who was invited has shared this information with the LINE group and I am about to send out a notice to the email list.

Three management companies for a building that's only a year or two old seems remarkable indeed. Has anyone approached QPM? They certainly have their faults but most buildings who use them seem to get on well enough with them. Be very wary indeed of small management companies and "one-man-bands".

Questionable tactics are par for the course. Management here can be highly manipulative and it should not be assumed that they will do anything apart from line their own pockets and avoid working wherever possible.

But I dont understand the rest of your comments. At the AGM/EGM the co-owners vote for the committee and the JPM. Their normal mandate is for 2 years. It should all be completely transparent with voting slips and a proper count. "Announcing" the committee or JPM without a proper vote is not legal. So what actually happened?

As for today's "committee meeting", such a meeting is normally called for elected committee members only and all such elected members should be informed of the meeting in advance and invited to it. OK, any co-owner wanting to talk to one or more of those committee members can do so outside the meeting but co-owners are not normally invited to the committee meeting. Co-owners attend EGMs and AGMs, and the law specifies that all of them should be informed by registered mail 7 days before the event. So is today's meeting a committee meeting or an EGM?

Good luck to all co-owners in that building. You have my sympathy.

[Rimmer]

A post with telephone numbers has been removed, did you not read the forum rules that you agreed to when you signed up to Thai Visa?

18) You will not post phone numbers, email addresses, business names, or web/Facebook/Twitter/Google+ addresses in posts or signatures. Web addresses to personal non-commercial sites sites/blogs, or Facebook/Twitter/Google+ addresses, may be posted in a member's profile page.

[jimlackey]

the committee was finally voted in at the 2nd try of holding an AGM, even though it was somewhat rigged

today was the first meeting of the committee where they agreed on what function each committee member would hold - chairman, vice-chairman, etc......

one of the committee members was upset that non-committee members were attending but everyone stayed despite these obejctions

the next step is to update the rules and regulations and get feedback from the various condo owners

the next step after that is to establish a draft budget and get feedback from the condo owners

several people were raising historical issues for yet another time, but all this served was to slow down the meeting - in due course these items should be raised - Rome was not built in a day

whether they produce minutes or not will be a good test to see how they behave and if they do produce minutes that are in both Thai and English, that would be a step in the right direction

I have established juristics in the past and understand the processes, but this one at AD is proving to be a challenge - heard today that family matters are clouding the issues at the AD Ownership/Developer level.

ACE, if you want to get on the email/LINE lists I suggested earlier, then you need to get in touch with me using the PM function as suggested by the moderator - I could not find the function as I would have expected the PM be a hyperlink to the function. I am not sure what PM is but hopefully you do. Look forward to hearing from you.

Rimmer, I did not read them, rarely do on any of these types of forums, I just click on agree to get on with it. Proceed and ask forgiveness later.

[KittenKong]

the committee was finally voted in at the 2nd try of holding an AGM, even though it was somewhat rigged

today was the first meeting of the committee where they agreed on what function each committee member would hold - chairman, vice-chairman, etc......

one of the committee members was upset that non-committee members were attending but everyone stayed despite these obejctions

It sounds as though there wasnt a quorum at your first AGM. In this case a second is called at which the quorum rules are relaxed (for most issues). Lots of buildings here need a second meeting every year due to the lack of a quorum at the first, so there's nothing unusual about yours in this respect. (It mystifies me why so few owners are interested enough in their investments to attend one yearly meeting.)

Co-owners would not normally attend a committee meeting, as I mentioned. The reason being that the committee is elected to represent the co-owners and to make decisions for them. So it's a little odd for your co-owners to attend. It cant hurt to have witnesses though, especially as it doesnt seem that your management company will be doing anything very useful.

[ace]

Jimlackey - thank you for posting. It's a relief to know that at least some people are trying to sort out the AD mess.

I tried to PM you (click on the poster's name / picture to do so) and got a variety of exciting error messages. Apparently I may be able to try again at 14:31 today, about 7 hours ago....

Anyway, will keep trying and should get through at some point I hope. Let me know if you get pm please.

I'm planning a trip down to Bang Saray this coming week if there's a meeting or good time etc let me know I'll get lunch!

J

[jimlackey]

the 1st meeting was a laugher - nothing happened really other than a lot of complaining

the 2nd attempt was successful technically - there was a quorum, committee elected, etc.

ACE got your PM and replied