Job title for teaching job without consent of TCT

[soreia]

We are haveing problems getting teachers for our school with the TCT having more and more requirements

I was wondering if there are job titles you could use to get a work permit, without getting the consent of TCT when the applicant doesn’t have the qualifications you need for TCT?

What job title would this work with? Language consultant? Assistant teacher?

I know this question was asked before, but I was browsing through older posts but could not get any satisfying answers and no confirmations either.

[Eddy B]

assistant might work, as this puts the applicant in a lower graded job in the eyes of the labour office. It would most likely not be accepted by the Thai Immigration though. Immigration would be the problem if you are applying for a Non-B extension, based on the documents from the school/labour office. I must admit, I am surprised when I know of people knocked back applying for a Non-B even though they have the right documents from the school and the local education office. The TCT (Krusapa) are the biggest bunch of idiotic, useless branch of the Thai bureaucracy I have come across..................

[lostinisaan]

assistant might work, as this puts the applicant in a lower graded job in the eyes of the labour office. It would most likely not be accepted by the Thai Immigration though. Immigration would be the problem if you are applying for a Non-B extension, based on the documents from the school/labour office. I must admit, I am surprised when I know of people knocked back applying for a Non-B even though they have the right documents from the school and the local education office. The TCT (Krusapa) are the biggest bunch of idiotic, useless branch of the Thai bureaucracy I have come across..................

With a gloved guy at the section for foreigners, who seems to be the unfriendliest guy on earth I've ever met. But stickers saying

" We love teachers" all around you."

The guy's such a nightmare that a Stephen King movie at midnight seems to be really funny once you've met him.

Such guys really pick on white guys, while all the Africans and others ( sorry, a lot) with their unreal degrees receive a 5 year TL, even if the can't have a conversation with any English speaking guy from an English speaking country.

OP, why are you asking? I mean did the school tell you to look for a solution? Do they need an example what such a document has to look like?

If so, please page me. An Immigration officer gave me the contract of another foreign teacher, as it was chewing gum.

The TCT is so insane that they denied to give me a TL, even after completing a Master's in English, on three year weekend courses.

And now having soldiers at the top makes it to a bigger joke. I can see the white gloves pointing at you now.....

Edited October 19, 2015 by lostinisaan

[Mencken]

Why don't you hire people with degrees for proper money?

Illuminating the obvious.

[Scott]

We have used the option of using an alternative title on a couple of occasions. One was a number of years ago with someone who had a 3 year degree and had upgraded to a 4 year degree, but didn't yet have the actual degree. He was given a Work Permit but we were told the following year he wold not unless the 4 year Bachelor's Degree was presented. They did ask the following year and he did have it. Now works as a teacher.

Another one is an older lady with a somewhat weird conglomerations of courses which constitute a full Bachelor's Degree. They agreed, but would not give her a Teacher's License, but did allow her as a consultant. She is well qualified and has published a book.

Two others were submitted, but we were told they had to have a degree, regardless of the position, and it had to go through the Teacher's Council. Neither had a full Bachelor's Degree. I am no longer involved with that school, so I don't know if they found a way around it or not.

[wcoast]

Getting the work permit is half the battle, getting an extension of stay from immigration with a job title that doesn't qualify for extension is the real battle.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[aidenai]

Keep in mind that the job title must fit the rules as stated in Police Order 327/ 2557 reason of necessity 2.7/ 2.7.1. If Immi gives an extension of stay, Labour will follow with the work permit.

[Alration]

"Fraud" would seem to be the most appropriate title, surely?

[TuskegeeBen]

The problem is not with the TCT, as there are a multitude of legal strategies, deliberately made available to legally circumvent the current restriction statutes. The problem with Thaiand is that the Thai (powers-that-be) are so skin-color, age or nationality phobic, that they tend to cut of their own noses , to spite their faces (a typical behavioral penchant) .

Many a posted "NES_Teacher needed, Immediate start" classified ad, on ThaiVisa, specifically state "Caucasians only" , no Africans or Filippinos need apply. The stupidity of it all is cnotradictory, and totally mind-boggling. The many highly qualified black Africans & Filipino (degree-holding) foreign teachers (in Math & Sciences, as well) passing thru Thailand, is huge. A degree from the University of Manila is definitely an earned degree. Yet many schools, and language centers will hire Russians, Romanians, Frenchmen, fair-skinned Persians and Indians, instead (all with thick English speaking accents), as NES language instructors. Many of those same "Caucasian" teachers are not qualified to teach anything (I know, because I've personally coached many of them). Most of them qualify only, because the ethnic Chinese (who actually control the "big-bucks" education industry of Thailand) are so deeply rooted in their "Xeno-Negrophobia".

ASEAN is just around the corner for Thaland. The MOE needs to (quickly) get itself unconstipated, and institute education policies that will serve to transform a fundamentally ignorant society, into a more globally conscious one, instead. Learning to speak English, is just the tip of the iceberg, for the current status quo, in Thailand.

Immigration is well aware of the game being played at the MOE (the place where all the BS can be permanently stopped). It is for that one, of several reasons why, getting a foreign Teacher's extension of stay, is a real uphill battle. And, considering the poor compensation packages, generally offered in Thailand, many top-shelf teachers (of all complexions & nationalities) opt to teach in other Asian countries instead. Thus, eliminating complicated visa issues, revolving-door 90-day visa runs & just plain headaches.

Now any poster (especially some know-it-all Brit) wishing to refute what I've written here, is welcome to pay a visit to the "Wailing Wall" in East Jerusalem. I've personally been there, done the NES teaching trip of Thailand, and I've got all the T-shirts to prove it. Cheers!

Edited October 20, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[lostinisaan]

<snip> A degree from the University of Manila is definitely an earned degree.<snip end>

There's nothing wrong to hire Filipinos with a real degree. I tend to agree that many of these degrees aren't real, pretty much similar to the Khao San road ones, many "Westerners" were and are using.

​ Please try to verify a degree from the Philippines, if you have your doubts. It's almost impossible. It's not about a "Filipino accent, in my opinion, there're some great teachers from the Philippines.

The TCT does not have the manpower and knowledge to check on those degrees from let's say from Manila. I was told to check on somebody’s degree, sent quite a few e-mails to the university in question, but never received an answer.

I know many schools in lower northeast that weren't happy with the Filipinos they hired and it's finally a financial part of the education game in Thailand.

But t get to the point. I've met various Filipinos who can hardly follow a native English Specking person's speech. No way to have a decent conversation about teaching related, or any other topics that might be of interest.

It's quite common that schools with an EP hire Filipinos, instead of NES teachers, just because they're much cheaper. Thus, the directors don't give a flying buffalo about the kids' education at all. Not all, but the majority.

I've heard so many times from Thai head teachers that the Filipinos are "only teaching subjects like math, science, PE", etc...

Here's the one million $ question for you. How can you teach scientific topics in English, if you can't even have a "normal conversation" with let's say an American who's very easy to understand?

I've worked with Filipinos who had no problem to Photoshop my Thai culture certificate and five of them sent it off to the TCT to be able to continue teaching. I was upset, thought about reporting them to the DoL, but finally decided to let it go, because some of them had kids.

Would something like that happen vice versa, do you really think that I'd still be in the game?

Another question is why do they not apply for a full license, if they're holding a real degree in education, like the most of them do?

Wouldn’t you do the needed courses to receive a TL from the Philippines and then go to Thailand?

“The answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind……B.D.

The answer seems to be easy because they really check on degrees when applying for a 5 year license.

The whole teaching circus seems to be getting worse from month to month. Nowadays, you'll find schools with 10 + Filipino teachers and maybe two Westerners.

And these Westerners could be the best teachers of this planet, but they'll always be blackmailed, because a cousin, brother, uncle, or nephew's already waiting for green light to jump in.

What amazes me is that almost all Filipinos have a 5 year license, while Westerners are struggling to find ways to have the right degree, while they're working to support their Thai families.

Many Filipinos have a degree in education, but they're taught in Tagalog. Does that make them to good English teachers?

Filipinos can easily "graduate online", having an online degree in education, by paying a little fee only.

Same goes for many African teachers, Cameroonians who seem to have attended the same university, degree signed by the same professor with a German sounding name, even if there's a 10 year gap between two Cameroonians.

Please don't get me wrong, this is not a Filipino bashing post, but I truly believe that many Westerners are doing a great job, but only finished high school.

These honest people, who'd never work on a fake degree/work permit/visa are the ones who enhanced the quality of not just Thai students. Their role is also to "educate the Thai English teachers."

These days you've got soldiers in all important positions, also at the MoE and the TCT.

It's also a proven fact that many Westerners shit in their own nest by getting drunk in public, some of them speak a not to understand slang, there're also some criminals who shouldn't even come close to students and a lot of them have no idea what education is all about.

ASEAN will start in December and I'm sure that more and more foreigners will leave Thailand. The biggest problem seems to be that Thai head teachers, or HRM can't even differentiate if a person speaks fluent English, or Tinglish.

I've done my eleven years and might be out soon. Things have gotten so strange that teaching English in Thailand it isn't enjoyable anymore.

​ There're 20 year old foreigners, hired without any qualifications, just because they come from an English speaking country and making at least twice what Filipinos make.

If I were from the Philippines, with a degree in education, plus 10 years of teaching experience and a 20 year old Scottish boy, who didn't even finish high school, would have 20,000 baht more a month, working at the same school I'd be more than pissed.

Finally, it's all about the corrupt school directors. Most of them are so corrupt that they have their fingers in almost everything what's going on at school, excluding education. It's all about money.

P.S. OP, you didn't sent me a message. If the school doesn't know what kind of contract they have to write tro bypass the TCT, I could help you out on that.

But it really varies from province to province. Did the school ask you to find a solution, or are you only trying to help a friend?

Feel free to page me, I can send you an example of a contract.

Edited October 20, 2015 by lostinisaan

[Scott]

To the best of my knowledge, all degrees have to be verified. For the Filipino teachers, they must also produce a document from the Embassy attesting to the authenticity of their degree. This maybe only in specific regions, but they have to make a trip, in person, for the document.

There is the also a Philippines gov't website of everyone who has taken the gov't exams for licensure. It includes teachers as well as other professions. If you are hiring a teacher licensed in the Philippines, then there name will appear. It will also appear if they took the test but failed. They cannot take a licensure exam without a degree from an accredited school.

The US has a clearinghouse which will verify degrees and it is very fast, but you do need to make a nominal payment.

The UK is difficult due to privacy laws, so the applicant has to write for verification.

Other countries vary in the difficulty.

The days of easily getting a Khao San road degree which will get past the TCT and Immigration has passed.

Fake degrees are possible, I am sure, but they are a lot more work than they were.

We are straying off the topic of Job Titles, however.

[Squeegee]

The problem is not with the TCT, as there are a multitude of legal strategies, deliberately made available to legally circumvent the current restriction statutes. The problem with Thaiand is that the Thai (powers-that-be) are so skin-color, age or nationality phobic, that they tend to cut of their own noses , to spite their faces (a typical behavioral penchant) .

Many a posted "NES_Teacher needed, Immediate start" classified ad, on ThaiVisa, specifically state "Caucasians only" , no Africans or Filippinos need apply. The stupidity of it all is cnotradictory, and totally mind-boggling. The many highly qualified black Africans & Filipino (degree-holding) foreign teachers (in Math & Sciences, as well) passing thru Thailand, is huge. A degree from the University of Manila is definitely an earned degree. Yet many schools, and language centers will hire Russians, Romanians, Frenchmen, fair-skinned Persians and Indians, instead (all with thick English speaking accents), as NES language instructors. Many of those same "Caucasian" teachers are not qualified to teach anything (I know, because I've personally coached many of them). Most of them qualify only, because the ethnic Chinese (who actually control the "big-bucks" education industry of Thailand) are so deeply rooted in their "Xeno-Negrophobia".

ASEAN is just around the corner for Thaland. The MOE needs to (quickly) get itself unconstipated, and institute education policies that will serve to transform a fundamentally ignorant society, into a more globally conscious one, instead. Learning to speak English, is just the tip of the iceberg, for the current status quo, in Thailand.

Immigration is well aware of the game being played at the MOE (the place where all the BS can be permanently stopped). It is for that one, of several reasons why, getting a foreign Teacher's extension of stay, is a real uphill battle. And, considering the poor compensation packages, generally offered in Thailand, many top-shelf teachers (of all complexions & nationalities) opt to teach in other Asian countries instead. Thus, eliminating complicated visa issues, revolving-door 90-day visa runs & just plain headaches.

Now any poster (especially some know-it-all Brit) wishing to refute what I've written here, is welcome to pay a visit to the "Wailing Wall" in East Jerusalem. I've personally been there, done the NES teaching trip of Thailand, and I've got all the T-shirts to prove it. Cheers!

Thailand just isn't worth it any more and there are better, more interesting up and coming places with fewer restrictions on professional life, visas or lifestyle.

Thailand is now the wrong place at the wrong time. And imagine that: having to be something other than a teacher in order to teach ("Can I be called a consultant in order to sidestep the TCT?") I repeat in all its glory: 'having to be something other than a teacher in order to teach' - that's messed up in so many ways.

[nkg]

Why don't you hire people with degrees for proper money?

Illuminating the obvious.

Perhaps they are trying to avoid hiring people like you.

[TuskegeeBen]

<snip> A degree from the University of Manila is definitely an earned degree.<snip end>

There's nothing wrong to hire Filipinos with a real degree. I tend to agree that many of these degrees aren't real, pretty much similar to the Khao San road ones, many "Westerners" were and are using.

​ Please try to verify a degree from the Philippines, if you have your doubts. It's almost impossible. It's not about a "Filipino accent, in my opinion, there're some great teachers from the Philippines.

The TCT does not have the manpower and knowledge to check on those degrees from let's say from Manila. I was told to check on somebody’s degree, sent quite a few e-mails to the university in question, but never received an answer.

I know many schools in lower northeast that weren't happy with the Filipinos they hired and it's finally a financial part of the education game in Thailand.

But t get to the point. I've met various Filipinos who can hardly follow a native English Specking person's speech. No way to have a decent conversation about teaching related, or any other topics that might be of interest.

It's quite common that schools with an EP hire Filipinos, instead of NES teachers, just because they're much cheaper. Thus, the directors don't give a flying buffalo about the kids' education at all. Not all, but the majority.

I've heard so many times from Thai head teachers that the Filipinos are "only teaching subjects like math, science, PE", etc...

Here's the one million $ question for you. How can you teach scientific topics in English, if you can't even have a "normal conversation" with let's say an American who's very easy to understand?

I've worked with Filipinos who had no problem to Photoshop my Thai culture certificate and five of them sent it off to the TCT to be able to continue teaching. I was upset, thought about reporting them to the DoL, but finally decided to let it go, because some of them had kids.

Would something like that happen vice versa, do you really think that I'd still be in the game?

Another question is why do they not apply for a full license, if they're holding a real degree in education, like the most of them do?

Wouldn’t you do the needed courses to receive a TL from the Philippines and then go to Thailand?

“The answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind……B.D.

The answer seems to be easy because they really check on degrees when applying for a 5 year license.

The whole teaching circus seems to be getting worse from month to month. Nowadays, you'll find schools with 10 + Filipino teachers and maybe two Westerners.

And these Westerners could be the best teachers of this planet, but they'll always be blackmailed, because a cousin, brother, uncle, or nephew's already waiting for green light to jump in.

What amazes me is that almost all Filipinos have a 5 year license, while Westerners are struggling to find ways to have the right degree, while they're working to support their Thai families.

Many Filipinos have a degree in education, but they're taught in Tagalog. Does that make them to good English teachers?

Filipinos can easily "graduate online", having an online degree in education, by paying a little fee only.

Same goes for many African teachers, Cameroonians who seem to have attended the same university, degree signed by the same professor with a German sounding name, even if there's a 10 year gap between two Cameroonians.

Please don't get me wrong, this is not a Filipino bashing post, but I truly believe that many Westerners are doing a great job, but only finished high school.

These honest people, who'd never work on a fake degree/work permit/visa are the ones who enhanced the quality of not just Thai students. Their role is also to "educate the Thai English teachers."

These days you've got soldiers in all important positions, also at the MoE and the TCT.

It's also a proven fact that many Westerners shit in their own nest by getting drunk in public, some of them speak a not to understand slang, there're also some criminals who shouldn't even come close to students and a lot of them have no idea what education is all about.

ASEAN will start in December and I'm sure that more and more foreigners will leave Thailand. The biggest problem seems to be that Thai head teachers, or HRM can't even differentiate if a person speaks fluent English, or Tinglish.

I've done my eleven years and might be out soon. Things have gotten so strange that teaching English in Thailand it isn't enjoyable anymore.

​ There're 20 year old foreigners, hired without any qualifications, just because they come from an English speaking country and making at least twice what Filipinos make.

If I were from the Philippines, with a degree in education, plus 10 years of teaching experience and a 20 year old Scottish boy, who didn't even finish high school, would have 20,000 baht more a month, working at the same school I'd be more than pissed.

Finally, it's all about the corrupt school directors. Most of them are so corrupt that they have their fingers in almost everything what's going on at school, excluding education. It's all about money.

P.S. OP, you didn't sent me a message. If the school doesn't know what kind of contract they have to write tro bypass the TCT, I could help you out on that.

But it really varies from province to province. Did the school ask you to find a solution, or are you only trying to help a friend?

Feel free to page me, I can send you an example of a contract.

Hey, thanks for your input and update to my dbase. I sincerely appreciate your effort. Of course, my reply was based solely upon my own experience, of attempting to provide a quality level of education to Thai Secondary students.

The students (for the most part) are a delight to work with. The administrators are the culprits who turn the simple act of teaching, into a monumental effort in futility.

I am happy to report that most of the East/West Africans and Filipinos that I had the pleasure of working with, are actually western (varifiable) university graduates, who definitely have their ducks in alignment. However, I do know how corrupt the overall Thai system can be. The tragedy falls upon the future of Thai children, who will be compelled to compete against many SE Asian (farangs) of their generation, in the not very distant future.

I actually took several graduate level courses at The University of the Philippines @ Manila, that were definitely not chump-change courses. However, that was 25-years ago.

There is a well-known (Vatican supported) International Catholic School nearby that charges 10K-Bht/mo. tuition, per student. They pack 35+ students into the English Program classrooms. I currently conduct Phonics & Math supplemental tutoring classes for several of those students, on weekends and during school holidays. The parents of those students came to me, with pleading requests for assistance. I gladly obliged by facilitating workshops, teaching the oral mechanics of the English alphabet and consonant blends pronunciation, together with basic dictionary (vocabulary building) word research drills.

My reward is to hear those students shouting loudly "Hi Kruben" to me, either from across the street, or from across the Mall @ Tesco, or Big-C, while their shopping with their parents. Hoorah! Again, thanks for the informative reply. I'll keep in mind your offer of assistance, especially for the future advent of the ASEAN event. It will be an interesting transition to observe. Cheers.

Edited October 22, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

The problem is not with the TCT, as there are a multitude of legal strategies, deliberately made available to legally circumvent the current restriction statutes. The problem with Thaiand is that the Thai (powers-that-be) are so skin-color, age or nationality phobic, that they tend to cut of their own noses , to spite their faces (a typical behavioral penchant) .

Many a posted "NES_Teacher needed, Immediate start" classified ad, on ThaiVisa, specifically state "Caucasians only" , no Africans or Filippinos need apply. The stupidity of it all is cnotradictory, and totally mind-boggling. The many highly qualified black Africans & Filipino (degree-holding) foreign teachers (in Math & Sciences, as well) passing thru Thailand, is huge. A degree from the University of Manila is definitely an earned degree. Yet many schools, and language centers will hire Russians, Romanians, Frenchmen, fair-skinned Persians and Indians, instead (all with thick English speaking accents), as NES language instructors. Many of those same "Caucasian" teachers are not qualified to teach anything (I know, because I've personally coached many of them). Most of them qualify only, because the ethnic Chinese (who actually control the "big-bucks" education industry of Thailand) are so deeply rooted in their "Xeno-Negrophobia".

ASEAN is just around the corner for Thaland. The MOE needs to (quickly) get itself unconstipated, and institute education policies that will serve to transform a fundamentally ignorant society, into a more globally conscious one, instead. Learning to speak English, is just the tip of the iceberg, for the current status quo, in Thailand.

Immigration is well aware of the game being played at the MOE (the place where all the BS can be permanently stopped). It is for that one, of several reasons why, getting a foreign Teacher's extension of stay, is a real uphill battle. And, considering the poor compensation packages, generally offered in Thailand, many top-shelf teachers (of all complexions & nationalities) opt to teach in other Asian countries instead. Thus, eliminating complicated visa issues, revolving-door 90-day visa runs & just plain headaches.

Now any poster (especially some know-it-all Brit) wishing to refute what I've written here, is welcome to pay a visit to the "Wailing Wall" in East Jerusalem. I've personally been there, done the NES teaching trip of Thailand, and I've got all the T-shirts to prove it. Cheers!

Thailand just isn't worth it any more and there are better, more interesting up and coming places with fewer restrictions on professional life, visas or lifestyle.

Thailand is now the wrong place at the wrong time. And imagine that: having to be something other than a teacher in order to teach ("Can I be called a consultant in order to sidestep the TCT?") I repeat in all its glory: 'having to be something other than a teacher in order to teach' - that's messed up in so many ways.

Exactamundo

[TuskegeeBen]

Unfotunately OP, there are no satisfying answers to your inquiry. Reason: There is very little rhyme, cognitive reasoning, or academic honor, integral with the Teaching Culture found within the Thai academic level of consciousness. Sorry! Good luck in your search

Edited October 22, 2015 by TuskegeeBen