Teaching Without Tefl Certificate?

[kevc]

Just need to ask for your opinions on this, I have recieved an offer of a job teaching English in Issan country without any qualifications actually came through one of my postings. I haven't responded yet don't even know where the school is exactly or what they are paying but I thought I'd ask you lot first for your comments.

Thanks.

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, start asking them, through e-mails or through phone calls. Where are you now?

I take it this is going to be your first TEFL job in Thailand, right? Obviously, without qualifications, you can't be too choosy. OTOH, you don't want to just pick the first job.

Our other moderator, ijustwannateach, started a long thread about what questions to ask. I've just bumped it to the top of the first page. Also, here's a more recent, similar thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=41989&st=0

Don't be afraid to ask the recruiters at the school, or ask us whatever's important to you. This is the land of smiles that likes to think smiles are more important than details, but you can be a farang that asks reasonable questions.

[Loaded]

Just need to ask for your opinions on this, I have recieved an offer of a job teaching English in Issan country without any qualifications actually came through one of my postings. I haven't responded yet don't even know where the school is exactly or what they are paying but I thought I'd ask you lot first for your comments.

Thanks.

Does it have any connection to 'media kids' or TEFL Int?

[kevc]

[

Does it have any connection to 'media kids' or TEFL Int?

Don't think so and I can't see them on the not recommended list, they say their an International Language School I've just sent them an e-mail asking for more details. Really what I'd like to know is whether teaching without a qualification in Thailand is a common occurrence.

Thanks to both of you for the interest.

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, it's also been questionable whether you can legally qualify for a teacher's license or work permit if you don't have a bachelor's degree, or at least a certifiable TEFL certification. There have always been exceptions that test the rule, but it appears that the laws will be more strictly enforced for a while here.

[SusanRichardson]

[

. Really what I'd like to know is whether teaching without a qualification in Thailand is a common occurrence.

Yes, quite common. Call it 75percent unqualified in a western mindset or even higher if an education degree is in the mix. That said, if you are a native speaker of English you are more qualifed than a lot of people actually "teaching". Combine that with a dedication to your students and willingness to prepare your lessons for at least 15min before each and you are well on your way. Good luck. Susan

[paully]

[

. Really what I'd like to know is whether teaching without a qualification in Thailand is a common occurrence.

Yes, quite common. Call it 75percent unqualified in a western mindset or even higher if an education degree is in the mix.

Where's your '75% unqualified' figure coming from, Susan, and what do you mean by 'in a western mindset'? It's a little disingenuous to compare TEFL teachers in a country like Thailand with, say, secondary school teachers in state schools in the UK. You don't have to be fully qualified as a teacher to teach EFL in Thailand or in the UK. A TEFL qualification is still a qualification and perfectly sufficient to teach English as a Foreign Language.

[kevc]

[

. Really what I'd like to know is whether teaching without a qualification in Thailand is a common occurrence.

and willingness to prepare your lessons for at least 15min before each and you are well on your way. Good luck. Susan

Whao! you have been a busy girl today haven't you. Firstly I'm not some backpacker who wants to make a few Baht to stay a little longer, I first came to this country in 1984 and have been with my wife for fourteen years, we run our own business and I teach voluntarily at our local school, so please don't use this thread to champion the grudge you have against the people who are happy doing what they are doing

[Neeranam]

It's not ELT is it?

Run by a real idiot called Manoch.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

[

. Really what I'd like to know is whether teaching without a qualification in Thailand is a common occurrence.

Yes, quite common. Call it 75percent unqualified in a western mindset or even higher if an education degree is in the mix. That said, if you are a native speaker of English you are more qualifed than a lot of people actually "teaching". Combine that with a dedication to your students and willingness to prepare your lessons for at least 15min before each and you are well on your way. Good luck. Susan

Wow, 15 mins prep.

That sure is dedication to teaching...

[Ijustwannateach]

I think it's safe to recommend taking SR's descriptions of TEFL as either very limited in application or referring entirely to "her" self; there are plenty of teachers out there working much harder at their teaching and their lessons.

[SusanRichardson]

Combine that with a dedication to your students and willingness to prepare your lessons for at least 15min before each and you are well on your way. Good luck. Susan

Wow, 15 mins prep.

That sure is dedication to teaching...

Well, dedication or not, it is 14 more than some.

Repeating: Being a native speaker is the key. Understanding the context of words, how to apply them to situations, how to in English motivate and interact with Thai students, etc.. Susan

[edited by IJWT- discussion of moderation issues is not on.]

[kenkannif]

Actually a lot of the 'proper' (BEds, PGCE) teachers that come to Thailand do a TEFL as they realise (unlike those with no formal teaching quals) that's it's quite a hard job to do 'properly'. But it seems those with a non-realted degree know better Funny that!!!

[Loaded]

Repeating: Being a native speaker is the key. Understanding the context of words, how to apply them to situations, how to in English motivate and interact with Thai students, etc.. Susan

So where would you have gained experience, and learned the necessary skills and methodologies to do this?

A degree in accounting?

Or, a TEFL course?

[SusanRichardson]

Repeating: Being a native speaker is the key. Understanding the context of words, how to apply them to situations, how to in English motivate and interact with Thai students, etc.. Susan

So where would you have gained experience, and learned the necessary skills and methodologies to do this?

A degree in accounting?

Or, a TEFL course?

Being smart is all that matters. Knowing how to present yourself and a topic. Learning thru experience what works and doesn't in a particular situation reaches far beyond some crash course in Thailand , and, being able to adapt on split notice is something you gain with real life experiences in English in your own country. In the end, if you think English(vs.translate) you can teach it easily enough. Cheers. Susan

[Ijustwannateach]

I'd have to disagree with the "easy" part of that assessment. Coming into a classroom of alien students, especially kids, without a pretty clear idea of what to expect and how to handle it can be extremely intimidating for many people- and that's just in terms of classroom management issues. Add lesson planning, games, and class materials on top of that. To do it well takes experience which is specific to the field. You can gain that experience in the field, it's true- but you'll be at a serious disadvantage over someone who's been prepped a bit.

"Steven"

[Neeranam]

Being smart is all that matters. Knowing how to present yourself and a topic. Learning thru experience what works and doesn't in a particular situation reaches far beyond some crash course in Thailand , and, being able to adapt on split notice is something you gain with real life experiences in English in your own country. In the end, if you think English(vs.translate) you can teach it easily enough. Cheers. Susan

I tend to agree with most you say

Also, being fluent in Thai helps A LOT. Funny, as my instuctors at my TESOL course said the opposite, as do most teachers that can't speak Thai.

[Ijustwannateach]

^But doesn't fluency in Thai argue for past experience/training, whereas Susan is arguing for no real previous training or experience at all? How is someone who is just starting out (presumably with no experience *and* no Thai) going to handle things? Poorly, I'd imagine.

[PeaceBlondie]

Repeating: Being a native speaker is the key. Understanding the context of words, how to apply them to situations, how to in English motivate and interact with Thai students, etc.. Susan

So where would you have gained experience, and learned the necessary skills and methodologies to do this?

A degree in accounting?

Or, a TEFL course?

Being smart is all that matters. Knowing how to present yourself and a topic. Learning thru experience what works and doesn't in a particular situation reaches far beyond some crash course in Thailand , and, being able to adapt on split notice is something you gain with real life experiences in English in your own country. In the end, if you think English(vs.translate) you can teach it easily enough. Cheers. Susan

I have to disagree with Susan on this one. I have degrees in religion and accounting, and I'm smart (American, as in British clever). Most people aren't supersmart, and they don't know 20% of what it takes to teach English in Asia. A crash course of 4 weeks, with supervised practice teaching, does educate you about that, fairly well, considering. You can't just adapt on split notice if you can't explain the difference between simple past and the present perfect, and why Brits use one more than Americans do. You can't just 'know' intuitively how to tell them to correct a speech defect, or how to pronounce "amongst" or "distinctly" distinctly. If you haven't done a lot of youth work, how do you handle 50 pubescents in a hot room who don't want to be there? Touching them on the head, pointing with your foot, raising your voice, etc.

Anything's possible, including a non-English speaker coming to Outer Uttradit and teaching 89 monks how to conjugate "Theodore thinks those are gorgeous gorges."

[kenkannif]

Double post as my 'puter is a bit mental!!!

Edited September 6, 2006 by kenkannif

[kenkannif]

Some people come here and teach without a TEFL and learn through trial and error over time....some of them find it difficult as they don't have a clue as to what they're doing so they leave after time. Some stick around and become fair teachers.

Some people come here and teach with a TEFL or do one here before teaching. They too have a learning curve when they do start to teach...but less so than someone with nowt training. Some think it's due to the training, some think it's due to them, some think it's a little bit of both.

Some people come here and teach and realise over time they don't really know what they're doing so do a TEFL....some think they know it all or are happy in their situation so they don't.

At the very least a TEFL course should show you what NOT to do....as the trial and error approach on paying customers (and more importantly real PEOPLE) isn't really right.

Also the problem is here you can be a useless teacher and get away with it (by kissing butt, dressing well, etc.).....it's only when you see how you should teach that you realise you've been doing it all wrong!!! That's the problem really....ignorance is BLISS!!!

While being fluent in Thai can help, it can also promote transliteration which is bad. Minimal use in the classroom generally (more to help with discipline and getting a point across quickly).

[farangsay]

As this thread is about teaching English could we try "at a moment's notice" instead of

"split notice" ?

[PeaceBlondie]

As this thread is about teaching English could we try "at a moment's notice" instead of

"split notice" ?

Good point, farangsay, even if it's pedantic. I struggled over it when I had to paraphrase it. Maybe "at split second's notice." The same post used "smart" and I assumed it was meant American style, although ZZTop from Houston sang, "Sharp Dressed Man."

No emoticon for two very long bearded White men singing.....oh well, Toto, I don't think we're in Houston anymore.

As for speaking Thai in the classroom, I try to keep it to less than 73 Thai words per hour, which is easy for me.

[SusanRichardson]

I tend to agree with most you say

Also, being fluent in Thai helps A LOT. Funny, as my instuctors at my TESOL course said the opposite, as do most teachers that can't speak Thai.

Odd, speaking Thai is not only discouraged but frowned upon at my school. They want, for better or worse, the students to interact with the teacher in ENGLISH only.

You guys and girls are leaving out some important things NOT TAUGHT but that a person either has or doesn't have...I'll list a few just for grins:

1. The ability to keep attention more than the intial 10min in the class.

2. The ability to gain and earn the students respect.

3. The experiences of life including being in front of people be they teenagers or adults.

4. The willingness to go with the flow of Thai culture, not let it "bother" you.

5. The common sense a western culture offers and brings to Thailand and how to adapt it to Thai culture without being rude or playing big shot. (this means a display of how you think not a demand the students think like you do)

cheers. Susan

[Ijustwannateach]

Your points about skills to have in the classroom are well-considered, Susan. However, I think you are mistaken that they cannot be taught. I have seen them being taught.

"Steven"

[In the Rai!]

I tend to agree with most you say

Also, being fluent in Thai helps A LOT. Funny, as my instuctors at my TESOL course said the opposite, as do most teachers that can't speak Thai.

Odd, speaking Thai is not only discouraged but frowned upon at my school. They want, for better or worse, the students to interact with the teacher in ENGLISH only.

You guys and girls are leaving out some important things NOT TAUGHT but that a person either has or doesn't have...I'll list a few just for grins:

1. The ability to keep attention more than the intial 10min in the class.

2. The ability to gain and earn the students respect.

3. The experiences of life including being in front of people be they teenagers or adults.

4. The willingness to go with the flow of Thai culture, not let it "bother" you.

5. The common sense a western culture offers and brings to Thailand and how to adapt it to Thai culture without being rude or playing big shot. (this means a display of how you think not a demand the students think like you do)

cheers. Susan

Susan,

I do agree with your points bar number 5. I dont think it's common sense you are talking about. Thais have a lot of common sense, in fact in many aspects they have more common sense than alot of westerners. I think you mean (please correct me if I am wrong) how to adapt to a very different way of doing things without letting it get to you or bother you. Just being able to accept a different way is very challenging in itself.

In The Rai!

[SusanRichardson]

5. The common sense a western culture offers and brings to Thailand and how to adapt it to Thai culture without being rude or playing big shot. (this means a display of how you think not a demand the students think like you do)

I do agree with your points bar number 5. I dont think it's common sense you are talking about. Thais have a lot of common sense, in fact in many aspects they have more common sense than alot of westerners. I think you mean (please correct me if I am wrong) how to adapt to a very different way of doing things without letting it get to you or bother you. Just being able to accept a different way is very challenging in itself.

In The Rai!

I was not intending to claim my "common sense" was greater or less, just to say it is different, has different applications to situations. I also meant more along the lines that adaptation of my "thinking" to the Thai students in a kind and gentle way, not by force or brow beating it is better etc.. This is teaching believe it or not, as they learn in English what certain words actually mean. As an example, today part of my lesson is about quality of life indicators. This is not something a typical Thai student will have a concept of beyond the very basics. A "westerner" can give real life examples, show photos etc. and explain the concept much better than a Thai teacher could. Does that mean "quality of life" matters? Maybe not, but the concept is not one Thai teachers (or non-native)could convey to another properly. You have to have been there, done that, and speak it! Cheers. Susan

[SusanRichardson]

Your points about skills to have in the classroom are well-considered, Susan. However, I think you are mistaken that they cannot be taught. I have seen them being taught.

"Steven"

Take the following examples:

-body language

-facial expressions

-gestures

All of these convey meanings which in my opinion only native speakers have the ability to "teach" or demonstrate in a "split second" without thinking about it, and I'm sure you will agree, are an important part of LEARNING "English". I seriously doubt they can be taught in four weeks. Cheers. Susan

[Loaded]

Odd, speaking Thai is not only discouraged but frowned upon at my school. They want, for better or worse, the students to interact with the teacher in ENGLISH only.

Odd, you feel speaking Thai in an English class should be encouraged??

My reasons why in general this isn't a good idea and shouldn't be encouraged (there are valid exceptions):

1. If students know they can communicate in Thai to their teacher, they will. Avoiding communicating in English.

2. Often there is no easy direct translation between Thai and English. For example, English uses verb tense to convey meaning with respect to time context, but Thai (in general) uses adverbs of time. Vocabulary often doesn't directly translate: how often have you been asked what 'krienjai' means in English.

3. The teacher is a model.

4. Parents expect English to be used - they're paying!

5. EPs are promoted as, well English Programmes, and the expecation of students and parents is that education will happen only in English.

6. Consistency in every English classroom.

I do agree that when you're teaching anubahn and you need the little darlings to sit down, shut up and open their books before studying, Thai may be a better medium to give the instruction.

[Ijustwannateach]

Take the following examples:

-body language

-facial expressions

-gestures

All of these convey meanings which in my opinion only native speakers have the ability to "teach" or demonstrate in a "split second" without thinking about it, and I'm sure you will agree, are an important part of LEARNING "English". I seriously doubt they can be taught in four weeks. Cheers. Susan

What are you talking about? Do you mean that only native speakers can really teach native behavior/facial expressions well?

I think that to learn *how to teach* those things is a different skill from *being able to do* those things. For example, stepping into a Thai classroom for the first time, with no training, how would I know that the foot and head are special taboo areas, or that the handshake is not to be taken for granted here, or that Thai students are expected to stand up when they respond to the teacher? How would I know that laughing too loudly is considered strange?

Even if I knew these things, would I know how to model them for students, test comprehension, and work them into some kind of real dialogue, all without using much Thai?

If being a living demonstration were enough to "teach" something, then language classes could consist entirely of students watching English-language movies. That doesn't actually usually work out so well. TEFL is a skill, and TEFL courses can help TEFL teachers acquire the skills to do TEFL more rapidly. A teacher on his/her own may be able to pick up a lot of it on the way, but I think his/her students would be starting out behind.

"Steven"