Thai politics: Could this be a transitional period to non-democracy?

[webfact]

Could this be a transitional period to non-democracy?
KASAMAKORN CHANWANPEN
THE NATION


Six academics lead a seminar yesterday

EXPERTS WARY OF REGIMES THAT CAN LEGALLY OVERRULE ELECTED BODIES

BANGKOK: -- THE PROBLEM with Thai politics is that the majority of the votes are being exploited by politicians; however, the way out is to strengthen democracy rather than abandoning it, political scientists have pointed out.

While the powers-that-be are trying to convince us that they have a road map to democracy, said Kasian Tejapira, a lecturer at Thammasat University, we are in fact in a transitional period to non-democracy.

Speaking at a seminar entitled "Thai Constitution: Forward Outlook" at Thammasat University's Tha Phrachan Campus, he said that an attempt has been made under the current charter drafting process to create a |regime with institutions to constitutionally limit or overrule the elected ones.

This idea came to the powers-that-be when they saw the flaws in democracy being exploited by politicians, he explained. But to prevent that, Kasian suggested, direct democracy should be imposed.

He said people should be able to exercise their power directly. For example, when MPs fail to perform their duties, the people should have the power to recall the election or impeach them.

Worachet Pakeerut, a law professor from Thammasat University and a key member of a pro-democracy lawyer group Nitirat, said that because the charter has to be written in line with the 2014 interim charter's Article 35, it can be anticipated that the new draft will not be much different from its predecessor.

He agreed that the new Constitution would include some institution or body, like the National Strategic Reform and Reconciliation Committee, designed to suppress the people's power. Such a body was in the recently-rejected draft because the powers-that-be see it as necessary.

Worachet said that even if the new draft is approved by a national referendum, it still won't solve the problems facing the country because it won't reflect the real problem, which needs to be solved by democratic means.

However, he admitted that he wasn't sure whether or not the junta wants the charter to pass.

If these drafts keep getting rejected, the country will be trapped in a charter-writing cycle, he said. The government should make it clear what options the people have if the draft is voted down in the referendum.

Parinya Thaewanarumitkul, another Thammasat University law professor, said the only way to know if the junta wants the draft to pass is to see if its does something about the disputed Article 37, which many view a stumbling block.

Parinya said that if they do not amend the controversial article, it means they do not want the charter to pass.

Jade Donavanik, a former member of defunct Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) and an adviser to the current drafting panel, was also a speaker at the seminar.

Jade tried to explain the charter draft with an analogy. "'You can't know what an apple tastes like unless you try it yourself."

Despite all the controversies, Jade said, the draft will be judged by a national referendum, which will link it to the people.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Could-this-be-a-transitional-period-to-non-democra-30271369.html

-- The Nation 2015-10-22

[Thailand]

Not on the road, almost at the end of the road.

[ikke]

"designed to suppress the people's power"

I hope they write this in bold, so the people would at least know what they vote for in a referendum.

[oneday]

Could this be a transitional period to non-democracy?

That is exactly where Thailand is headed or rather they are there already and have been since May 2014. I see no hope of Thailand ever getting back to a Democratic government, because that would mean fair elections, which would mean PT would win the next election and this military government is dead set against PT ever winning another election.

[MaxLee]

"If these drafts keep getting rejected, the country will be trapped in a charter-writing cycle, he said."

That is EXACTLY what this current regime is aiming for to justify their actions to stay in power 4ever......

Haha, saw that one coming, didn't we?

Edited October 22, 2015 by MaxLee

[IamNoone88]

The problem with Thailand is that it has a government. The private sector works extremely well, despite the government and bureaucracy. Look around Bangkok and everything that works well id private sector and to an excellent standard. Then look at everything the government runs - the education system, police, road conditions etc ...... where the government is involved the standards are just piss poor. End of the day there is huge divide between what the private sector delivers and the government with huge resources........... we all know why.

[jcsmith]

"You can't know what an apple tastes like unless you try it yourself."

Just ask Eve, or Snow White.

[Emster23]

Transition to non democracy? Dudes, that happened in a couple of hours in May last year. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Orac]

The problem with Thailand is that it has a government. The private sector works extremely well, despite the government and bureaucracy. Look around Bangkok and everything that works well id private sector and to an excellent standard. Then look at everything the government runs - the education system, police, road conditions etc ...... where the government is involved the standards are just piss poor. End of the day there is huge divide between what the private sector delivers and the government with huge resources........... we all know why.

The bureaucracy and establishment do very well out of a non-democratic form of government - remember how they reacted when a private businessman got too much control.

[LannaGuy]

gone but not forgotten

[ggt]

Democracy is a concept...an ideal...an imaginary power were there is no corruption and the people's voice is heard about the roar of politicians...

It does not actually exist...even in the US...but democracy is arguable the best form of government for individual freedoms...constantly under attack by the elite...

[BlindMagician]

Thailand has never really been democratic, but actually always ruled by the military, and the big families.

There have been moments when the surface presentation started to look democratic, but dig deeper, and, well, you know.

The transition is a gradual removal of the many vailed layers, making the military rule more apparent at the surface. They need a tight enough grip before completely removing all the pretence.

We've seen this before, in human history, several times. There's a well known Austrian failed painter who played similar tricks.

Search YouTube "last week tonight", and look for episodes that refer to Thailand.

[h90]

Democracy is a concept...an ideal...an imaginary power were there is no corruption and the people's voice is heard about the roar of politicians...

It does not actually exist...even in the US...but democracy is arguable the best form of government for individual freedoms...constantly under attack by the elite...

In the USA with a 2 party system the least....Best example would be Switzerland.

Democracy is a tool to select the best leader and have the country heading in the way most people want with strong checks and balances so the elected leaders can't abuse their power and change the system to a non democratic way.

With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? Checks and balances?, vote buying? filling their pockets instead of doing something for the people, democracy failed long before the coup already.

[LannaGuy]

Democracy is a concept...an ideal...an imaginary power were there is no corruption and the people's voice is heard about the roar of politicians...

It does not actually exist...even in the US...but democracy is arguable the best form of government for individual freedoms...constantly under attack by the elite...

In the USA with a 2 party system the least....Best example would be Switzerland.

Democracy is a tool to select the best leader and have the country heading in the way most people want with strong checks and balances so the elected leaders can't abuse their power and change the system to a non democratic way.

With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? Checks and balances?, vote buying? filling their pockets instead of doing something for the people, democracy failed long before the coup already.

boringly predictable defence of the military junta

[chainarong]

At present Thailand couldn't be further from Democracy , until you have a system where the Head of State isn't removed from Politics and is the decider in stalemates similar to that of the Westminster system and when you have a military that has no power, no influence in political appointments, where severe penalties are enforced of sedition or traitorous behaviour from the military , when you have all that included in the constitution then and only then will Thailand move forward, under the present system Thailand will be due for another bout of the dreaded botulinum Coup around 2021

[waldroj]

The problem with Thai politics is that the majority of the votes are being exploited by politicians!

Irrespective of whether this statement was true or not, I argue that the junta is just as guilty of exploiting the votes in the planned referendum (even before it has taken place). Their cunning tool has been the insistence that a mechanism is built into the new charter (currently being drafted) allowing the military to step in and usurp control from a democratically elected government once some trigger point is reached.

The junta are setting an agenda that will deny any hope of strong democratic government into the foreseeable future. Two examples of this are, the inclusion of the ‘crisis panel’ clause, and the clear lack of any attempt at reconciliation since they assumed control in May, 2014.

The CDC Mark II draft charter to be put to the people at referendum looks almost certain to contain the ‘crisis panel’ clause. Couple this with Prayut’s fanatical desire to destroy the major political parties, and it is almost guaranteed that chaos will remain a dominating feature of Thai politics.

Prayut and his junta cronies have manipulated the conditions for a possible return to democracy by giving the Thai people only one option – accept the draft charter or else! Rejecting the draft charter will see the junta retain its control (it’s as simple as that), and there is no plan on how to advance the democratic process if this should occur.

Accepting the draft charter may open the way for ‘democratic’ elections, but any chance of getting a majority government will have been destroyed by junta manipulation. The only possible outcome will be a weak alliance of minor parties. And, in short time these will break down due to factional fighting (as each party seeks to gain more favour), thus allowing the ‘crisis committee’ to step in remove the government! And this will be done with the full support of the people through their vicarious acceptance of the draft constitution in the referendum.

You may not know what an apple tastes like unless you try it yourself, but you don’t need to taste it if you can already see that it looks bad!

[phoenixdoglover]

A government for and by the military of Thailand.

Turn it around. Look at how the Thai armed forces are treated in the draft Charter (and in past Charters). They have virtually no accountability, except to their own definitions of what is best for Thailand.

The current Charter effort, as many have suggested, is simply an effort to ingrain military takeovers, so that messy coups will be unnecessary, and a transfer of power will be as simple as a "constitutional" order from a committee.

Thailand is at a crossroads. The driver is making a choice. The passengers are docile.

[Just1Voice]

Personally, and in my own (perhaps warped) opinion, I can't see a real change in Thailand until the Thai finally get fed up with everything and have their own version of "Bastille Day". Swarm the military compounds and "arrest" every military, and police, officer above the rank of Lieutenant, confiscate all of their totally illegal wealth, and sentence them to the choice of life imprisonment at hard labor, or death. A guillotine in a very public place sounds good.

Yeah, it's a total fantasy, but to me, that's what it is going to take.

[empireboy]

Seems like current govt prefer the Chinese and Singaporean models... effectively, (benevolent?) dictatorship but democratic at some levels. It has it's plusses if they get it right like Singapore have...

[MZurf]

Seems like current govt prefer the Chinese and Singaporean models... effectively, (benevolent?) dictatorship but democratic at some levels. It has it's plusses if they get it right like Singapore have...

" It has it's plusses if they get it right like Singapore have... "

You DO know this is a Thailand forum, right??

[JAG]

Could this be a transitional period to non-democracy?

That is exactly where Thailand is headed or rather they are there already and have been since May 2014. I see no hope of Thailand ever getting back to a Democratic government, because that would mean fair elections, which would mean PT would win the next election and this military government is dead set against PT ever winning another election.

gone but not forgotten

Democracy is now denied to the Thai people. That doesn't mean that although at present they acquiesce they do not wish for it to return.

Sooner or later the desire to be allowed to select their own government will become more powerful than the fear of the imposed government.

It has happened before - the difference is that the " safety valve" ( an intervention ) has gone.

The longer the wait the messier the eventual process will be.

[MZurf]

Democracy is a concept...an ideal...an imaginary power were there is no corruption and the people's voice is heard about the roar of politicians...

It does not actually exist...even in the US...but democracy is arguable the best form of government for individual freedoms...constantly under attack by the elite...

In the USA with a 2 party system the least....Best example would be Switzerland.

Democracy is a tool to select the best leader and have the country heading in the way most people want with strong checks and balances so the elected leaders can't abuse their power and change the system to a non democratic way.

With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? Checks and balances?, vote buying? filling their pockets instead of doing something for the people, democracy failed long before the coup already.

"With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? "

No, but they were democratically elected, ergo Thai society/democracy had a chance to evolve - to sink or swim. Now there is no such opportunity. Thailand is in stasis politically and one day the lid will come off.

BTW, every day that goes by the junta make Samak, Somchai and Yingluck look more and more like statesmen - and that's no mean feat!!

What I find utterly incomprehensible is that there are posters with (presumably) an IQ above retard level that still support this hideous regime.

[mikemac]

The problem with Thai politics is that the majority of the votes are being exploited by politicians!

Irrespective of whether this statement was true or not, I argue that the junta is just as guilty of exploiting the votes in the planned referendum (even before it has taken place). Their cunning tool has been the insistence that a mechanism is built into the new charter (currently being drafted) allowing the military to step in and usurp control from a democratically elected government once some trigger point is reached.

The junta are setting an agenda that will deny any hope of strong democratic government into the foreseeable future. Two examples of this are, the inclusion of the ‘crisis panel’ clause, and the clear lack of any attempt at reconciliation since they assumed control in May, 2014.

The CDC Mark II draft charter to be put to the people at referendum looks almost certain to contain the ‘crisis panel’ clause. Couple this with Prayut’s fanatical desire to destroy the major political parties, and it is almost guaranteed that chaos will remain a dominating feature of Thai politics.

Prayut and his junta cronies have manipulated the conditions for a possible return to democracy by giving the Thai people only one option – accept the draft charter or else! Rejecting the draft charter will see the junta retain its control (it’s as simple as that), and there is no plan on how to advance the democratic process if this should occur.

Accepting the draft charter may open the way for ‘democratic’ elections, but any chance of getting a majority government will have been destroyed by junta manipulation. The only possible outcome will be a weak alliance of minor parties. And, in short time these will break down due to factional fighting (as each party seeks to gain more favour), thus allowing the ‘crisis committee’ to step in remove the government! And this will be done with the full support of the people through their vicarious acceptance of the draft constitution in the referendum.

You may not know what an apple tastes like unless you try it yourself, but you don’t need to taste it if you can already see that it looks bad!

.............."Their cunning tool has been the insistence that a mechanism is built into the new charter (currently being drafted) allowing the military to step in and usurp control from a democratically elected government once some trigger point is reached.".....................

Seriously, do they really need this mechanism ? It has not stopped them before, on 12 occasions since 1932.

.................."and the clear lack of any attempt at reconciliation since they assumed control in May, 2014"......................

Doubt if this reconciliation will ever happen while the Military is in power. They hate the Shins and the Reds and are not going to give them the reconciliation (amnesty) that they crave.

This current coup is just the latest chapter of a long history of Thailand being abused by crooked Political parties and an equally bent Military.

[mikemac]

Seems like current govt prefer the Chinese and Singaporean models... effectively, (benevolent?) dictatorship but democratic at some levels. It has it's plusses if they get it right like Singapore have...

" It has it's plusses if they get it right like Singapore have... "

You DO know this is a Thailand forum, right??

You do know we are allowed to mention other countries ? It is not that unusual and I am sure you have done it before.

[jadee]

I agree with the sentiment of this article, the country seems to be transitioning away from democracy. I can't see many Thais really bothered by this. It makes me question my own belief that democracy and capitalism are entwined, clearly countries such as China show that this doesn't need to be the case. I think at this point, Thais will just acccept anything that gives them growth, opportunity and prosperity.

[Praematura]

More people, less resources, more poverty, more control and so on. Thailand will economically deteriorate further while climate change wrecks its agricultural sector until it's basically a beach resort for their Chinese overlords, all run via the military establishment.

[Srikcir]

Democracy is a concept...an ideal...an imaginary power were there is no corruption and the people's voice is heard about the roar of politicians...

It does not actually exist...even in the US...but democracy is arguable the best form of government for individual freedoms...constantly under attack by the elite...

In the USA with a 2 party system the least....Best example would be Switzerland.

Democracy is a tool to select the best leader and have the country heading in the way most people want with strong checks and balances so the elected leaders can't abuse their power and change the system to a non democratic way.

With Samak, Somchai, Yingluck: the most able leader? Checks and balances?, vote buying? filling their pockets instead of doing something for the people, democracy failed long before the coup already.

Democracy in Thailand failed in 1933 and never became an integral part of Thai culture since then. For that you can thank 20 military coups!

[MockingJay]

Q: "Could this be a transitional period to non-democracy?"

A: "Could this be is a transitional period to non-democracy?"

No need to write a whole article about it and use question marks, we all know what's up.

[tuanku]

Personally, and in my own (perhaps warped) opinion, I can't see a real change in Thailand until the Thai finally get fed up with everything and have their own version of "Bastille Day". Swarm the military compounds and "arrest" every military, and police, officer above the rank of Lieutenant, confiscate all of their totally illegal wealth, and sentence them to the choice of life imprisonment at hard labor, or death. A guillotine in a very public place sounds good.

Yeah, it's a total fantasy, but to me, that's what it is going to take.

Are you really suggesting a French revolution? Thailand will not become a Republic in the foreseeable future. That door was closed in the early 1930s and is not ready to reopen yet.

The Thai military are too strong, too entrenched, too connected to be removed by force. It would take something more like the Arab Spring to change things - and even that didn't work out too well for Egypt and Libya did it? A non-violent citizens revolt is the only way I can see of Thailand moving forward, but as yet most people don't seem to see it in their own interests to make waves and the army is still given credibility by association. If they succeed in alienating the people and the people show their disapproval en mass then who knows.

[Just1Voice]

Personally, and in my own (perhaps warped) opinion, I can't see a real change in Thailand until the Thai finally get fed up with everything and have their own version of "Bastille Day". Swarm the military compounds and "arrest" every military, and police, officer above the rank of Lieutenant, confiscate all of their totally illegal wealth, and sentence them to the choice of life imprisonment at hard labor, or death. A guillotine in a very public place sounds good.

Yeah, it's a total fantasy, but to me, that's what it is going to take.

Are you really suggesting a French revolution? Thailand will not become a Republic in the foreseeable future. That door was closed in the early 1930s and is not ready to reopen yet.

The Thai military are too strong, too entrenched, too connected to be removed by force. It would take something more like the Arab Spring to change things - and even that didn't work out too well for Egypt and Libya did it? A non-violent citizens revolt is the only way I can see of Thailand moving forward, but as yet most people don't seem to see it in their own interests to make waves and the army is still given credibility by association. If they succeed in alienating the people and the people show their disapproval en mass then who knows.

I didn't say anything about them becoming a Republic, although something like that may not be totally out of the question. Especially with the pending death of one very important person.

I'm saying that the Thai people have got to take matters into their own hands, by whatever means necessary, and an important part of that is the total dismantling of the military regime by whatever means necessary. Until the military is put in their place, by force if that's what it takes, Thailand has no chance of developing into what it could be. Whether it's a French Revolution or Arab Spring type of event, something has to give, and it's not going to be peaceful or bloodless.