Pheu Thai issues statement in defence of Ms Yingluck over rice pledging scheme

[Skywalker69]

Good statement as nothing illegal has occurred and it's perfectly normal to subsidize farmers. It's NOT about rice!

LOL, PTP doesn't get it. There was nothing illegal about the rice scheme legislation.

The party claimed in the statement that 870,018 million baht have been paid directly into the pockets of rice farmers “without any leaks or without any other people benefiting from the scheme.”

They have got to be kidding. No leaks? No other people benefiting from the scheme?

If they ever came back to reality, PTP would realize that the reason Yingluck is being prosecuted civilly and criminally, is that no one ever voted for or appropriated 600 billion baht to pay for the losses associated with the scheme. Those losses were the result of her failure to monitor and manage the scheme. The result was the scheme became unconstitutional because it exceeded the authority granted by the legislature. What legislature in their right minds would appropriate 600 billion to pay for rice stocks, and then only distribute less than 1 billion to the farmers?

Answer: PTP, because they were able to have their cronies suck up all the excess in the program.

Answer: On direct orders from the "clone" aka "the caddy"

[EnglishJohn]

Sorry, but after the amnesty disgrace I don't really care what these dirty cronies think.

Their opinions are those directed by their paying master. They are worthless.

At the end of the day, 500 billion was stolen from a 600 billion budget. Somebody must be held responsible. If the PM was repeatedly warned and did nothing about it, the ultimate culpability is clear.

But Thai politics has little to do with right and wrong. I see plenty of that on this forum. 'What's in it for me' is more like it.

[mikemac]

No, but you don't understand - due to his wealth of experience and familiarity with all things Thai (and presumably Lan Na), Lanna Guy KNOWS intuitively. Best not to question, just accept...

But actually he IS absolutely correct in his conclusions,in spite of your facile sarcasm !!!!

Until anyone provides any concrete evidence to otherwise, PTP will win.

The farmers have been given nothing by this govt that goes beyond the norm. I don't see any reason to reckon that the vote will be any different than last time.

Hell they have drafted in Somkid to save the economy. Does anyone need to realise which type of policies will work to get the economy moving?

................."The farmers have been given nothing by this govt that goes beyond the norm.".......................

Amazing statement, even for you T@H. Given nothing except maybe the money that left owing to them by the previous regime for their rice crops.

The statement announced by PTP in defense of the rice pledging scheme is nearly as faulty as some of your excuses.

[rubl]

Was it really October/November 2013 that in the censure debate then PM Yingluck stood up and declared that she and only she was in charge of her government, cabinet, political party?

So, "3.7 million of farming households or 23 percent of the population" all into rice farming got 800 billion bath. From a 'self-financing' RPPS which still has the BAAC waiting for 700 billion Baht, guranteed by the then government and budgeted by the current government to repay in seven (yearly) installments.

A new high in vote buying.

Edited October 23, 2015 by rubl

[Thai at Heart]

No, but you don't understand - due to his wealth of experience and familiarity with all things Thai (and presumably Lan Na), Lanna Guy KNOWS intuitively. Best not to question, just accept...

But actually he IS absolutely correct in his conclusions,in spite of your facile sarcasm !!!!

Until anyone provides any concrete evidence to otherwise, PTP will win.

The farmers have been given nothing by this govt that goes beyond the norm. I don't see any reason to reckon that the vote will be any different than last time.

Hell they have drafted in Somkid to save the economy. Does anyone need to realise which type of policies will work to get the economy moving?

................."The farmers have been given nothing by this govt that goes beyond the norm.".......................

Amazing statement, even for you T@H. Given nothing except maybe the money that left owing to them by the previous regime for their rice crops.

The statement announced by PTP in defense of the rice pledging scheme is nearly as faulty as some of your excuses.

The system may have been hairbrained, dumb, stupid and all the rest. It doesnt make it illegal. Do you really think the farmers don't understand why the payment couldn't be made and why all of a sudden the junta could.

Do you really think there is any love for the junta among the farmers?

Edited October 23, 2015 by Thai at Heart

[rubl]

................."The farmers have been given nothing by this govt that goes beyond the norm.".......................

Amazing statement, even for you T@H. Given nothing except maybe the money that left owing to them by the previous regime for their rice crops.

The statement announced by PTP in defense of the rice pledging scheme is nearly as faulty as some of your excuses.

The system may have been hairbrained, dumb, stupid and all the rest. It doesnt make it illegal. Do you really think the farmers don't understand why the payment couldn't be made and why all of a sudden the junta could.

Do you really think there is any love for the junta among the farmers?

Oh come on T@H, none of that nonsense.

The Yingluck Administration was warned in September 2013 to run out of the 'non-revolving funds' they had the BAAC allocate. Yingluck c.s. were just too busy with her brother's amnesty and their own amnesty to take much notice. By the time Ms. Yingluck was caretaker PM she no longer had the authority to borrow extra money (financial obligation which a new government would have to honor).

Even if the elections had gone through there was still a gap of more than two months before a new government would be and have the authority again. Even before Ms. Yingluck dissolved the House there had been months of non-payment.

[Baerboxer]

Good statement as nothing illegal has occurred and it's perfectly normal to subsidize farmers. It's NOT about rice!

It wasn't a subsidy. It was touted as a self financing scheme.

If it had been a subsidy, part of the budget, and most importantly ran transparently and properly, I would agree with you.

The PTP statement is their usual lip gloss. It does not explain or even comment on the failure of the self appointed chair to attend meetings, her refusal to heed advice from very credible world bodies or from internal audit and finance people, her failure to present any transparent and audited accounts, her outright lies regarding fictitious G2G deals and false promises of payments owed to farmers (before any protests regarding her brother's Amnesty and dissolving of parliament; and general mismanagement.

If you use a business analogy, the CEO of a company where similar events happened would resign or be forced out. He/she would then face some investigation as to personal conduct and liability for those actions and losses. (Enrom, WorldCom, Tyco etc)

All Yingluck needs to do is present the real accounts, show how much was paid out and to whom; explain how never attended meetings, not reacting to red flags raised by international bodies, ignoring and indeed punishing internal red flag raisers and lying about G2G deals constitutes effective management of a self financing off budget scheme (not a subsidy) and she's home and dry.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

No, but you don't understand - due to his wealth of experience and familiarity with all things Thai (and presumably Lan Na), Lanna Guy KNOWS intuitively. Best not to question, just accept...

But actually he IS absolutely correct in his conclusions,in spite of your facile sarcasm !!!!

No he isn't. He simply follows the latest Shin PR/Legal Team attempt to try and whitewash this scheme.

The World Bank estimated less than 5% of the money paid out actually went to the farmers. Where did all the other money go?

There must be records of payments. A good forensic accounting team could really audit this and come up with a detailed report.

But, some of the answers might not be to the liking of some people. So this silly political / legal game continues.

Where is the progress on the other cases? Fraud in export deals, inventory irregularities etc etc.

[Baerboxer]

Congrats to LannaGuy, mission accomplished ! You jumped right on this topic, made the first comment which was sure to attract attention, and received no less than 7 responses to it so far, all of them shooting it/you down or criticizing it/you. Well done !

We know you're a Junta fan but i prefer to seek out the truth and not blindly believe the Army propaganda. You spin a nice story about the Junta but care not for the light of truth. One day it will all come out and you will look a complete fool for falling for it hook, line and sinker.

More diversion to avoid structured discussion of the actual topic.

Congratulations, you win, most diversions for the year!

He doesn't believe the Army propaganda - but laps up the Shin PR and repeats it at every opportunity.

He has to divert, attack the poster as he can't really defend the activities of bunch of crooks lying constantly whilst enriching themselves.

[Baerboxer]

Anyone who knows anything about Thailand and Thais....

Lanna Guy's continual and arrogant refrain.

Of course, none of the rest of us know anything about Thailand or Thais, and as usual his nonsensical and unsubstantiated opinions will set us all right.

If he doesn't know anything about about Thais then their vote means nothing to you. This is why there will be no elections anytime soon. I'm not a fan of Thaksin but I do respect their vote regardless of who is elected. Seems you need a history lesson from the last 3 elections.

I still frequently notice many of my thai staff visiting her facebook page when they're not busy.

Yes, many Thai I know visit her FB page - they enjoy a good laugh and quiet like fairy stories.

"I'm not a fan of Thaksin" - another one joins the club,,,,,,,,,,,,

[mikemac]

................."The farmers have been given nothing by this govt that goes beyond the norm.".......................

Amazing statement, even for you T@H. Given nothing except maybe the money that left owing to them by the previous regime for their rice crops.

The statement announced by PTP in defense of the rice pledging scheme is nearly as faulty as some of your excuses.

The system may have been hairbrained, dumb, stupid and all the rest. It doesnt make it illegal. Do you really think the farmers don't understand why the payment couldn't be made and why all of a sudden the junta could.

Do you really think there is any love for the junta among the farmers?

There you go again, changing the subject and throwing a smokescreen. I don't remember saying anything about it being illegal, that is you and LG and co. who harp on about that, trying to divert attention away from the facts. She is being charged with "dereliction of duty over her role in a controversial rice subsidy scheme", whether what she did was illegal or not is up to the court to decide.

I agree with you about it being harebrained, dumb, stupid etc. but what would you expect ? Yingluck said the buck stopped with her, and she did take the job on with no experience whatsoever in politics.

I don't know if there is any love for the junta among the farmers because the only rice farmers I know are my in-laws from Surin. Last time I was down there they did not mention the Junta but they sure did mention Yingluck. They were pissed off about receiving low prices for their last crop and they blamed her and the rice scam for that.

[lucky11]

The rice pledging scheme amounts to a social contract that the Pheu Thai party is obliged to implement

sure, you can look at that way, and you can also look at it this way:

The rice pledging scheme was a stupid piece of legislation implemented by an inept and clueless government who ran up gigantic losses without any oversight.

either way you look at it, it remains the Pheu Thai government's responsibility and no amount of wiggling will get you off the hook.

They were warned frequently that it would produce massive losses and given several opportunities to close this disastrous policy down, but did they listen? No, they did not and they must bear the consequences of their actions. It was a blatant bribe to their voting base to get elected and false unrealistic promises are not a legitimate policy platform to waste tax payers money on. The losses incurred of 600 billion baht of (all taxpayers) money so that they could fill up the piggy banks of rice growers is absurd!!

Why not give the rice growers the money direct - just think how far, say 100 billion baht would go if distributed evenly amongst them.

[Thai at Heart]

................."The farmers have been given nothing by this govt that goes beyond the norm.".......................

Amazing statement, even for you T@H. Given nothing except maybe the money that left owing to them by the previous regime for their rice crops.

The statement announced by PTP in defense of the rice pledging scheme is nearly as faulty as some of your excuses.

The system may have been hairbrained, dumb, stupid and all the rest. It doesnt make it illegal. Do you really think the farmers don't understand why the payment couldn't be made and why all of a sudden the junta could.

Do you really think there is any love for the junta among the farmers?

There you go again, changing the subject and throwing a smokescreen. I don't remember saying anything about it being illegal, that is you and LG and co. who harp on about that, trying to divert attention away from the facts. She is being charged with "dereliction of duty over her role in a controversial rice subsidy scheme", whether what she did was illegal or not is up to the court to decide.

I agree with you about it being harebrained, dumb, stupid etc. but what would you expect ? Yingluck said the buck stopped with her, and she did take the job on with no experience whatsoever in politics.

I don't know if there is any love for the junta among the farmers because the only rice farmers I know are my in-laws from Surin. Last time I was down there they did not mention the Junta but they sure did mention Yingluck. They were pissed off about receiving low prices for their last crop and they blamed her and the rice scam for that.

But this is the issue. It was a legal system, yet people harp on about it being fundamentally illegal because it was out of the main budget, was proposed as self financing but wasn't.

This is one of the fundamental problems with the concept of this case and trying to win it. At what point does damage by a govt official become something that should be chased in court.

Do you think they can win the case? They can,. Will it pass legal scrutiny? I don't think so. Are they right to chase her for damages. I don't think so because it opens up the accusation to be held over all future policy by all govts.

So I am not diverting anything. You guys think the govt has a rock solid case and a legal right to chase Yingluck. I don't, and if I discuss possibilities why a legal process might or should not continue to chase her, people on here try to say I am in some way a staunch red shirt supporter.

What I am, is willing to point out the pitfalls and absurdities and possible outcomes of a military junta that ousted an elected govt, then holding a former PM personally responsible for losses of a policy. If they chase her and win their 500bn back, it is extremely likely that there will be civil unrest sparked by the Shinawatra, or when elections come and they win, the legal retribution on the previous junta, yellows and others will ruin them.

Everyone has skeletons, and for the life of me, I don't understand the legal right to prosecute former PM and ministers for policies. Neither do I believe that there are many clean politicians on any side of this discussion, and the legal carnage that will be caused when PTP probably win the next election will know no bounds.

This action of chasing for damages is legally wrong and will inevitably cause problems for Thailand for many years to come.

Many on here like to think life is better under the junta. Their actions now are really pouring diesel on the fire. It could cause an inferno.

[LannaGuy]

Congrats to LannaGuy, mission accomplished ! You jumped right on this topic, made the first comment which was sure to attract attention, and received no less than 7 responses to it so far, all of them shooting it/you down or criticizing it/you. Well done !

We know you're a Junta fan but i prefer to seek out the truth and not blindly believe the Army propaganda. You spin a nice story about the Junta but care not for the light of truth. One day it will all come out and you will look a complete fool for falling for it hook, line and sinker.

More diversion to avoid structured discussion of the actual topic.

Congratulations, you win, most diversions for the year!

He doesn't believe the Army propaganda - but laps up the Shin PR and repeats it at every opportunity.

He has to divert, attack the poster as he can't really defend the activities of bunch of crooks lying constantly whilst enriching themselves.

"enriching themselves" ANY evidence? or are you making it up as usual and then doing your 'smoke and mirrors' trick in defence of the Junta you heartily support? you think your post is NOT 'attacking the poster'? what a hypocrite you are

[rubl]

No diversions, no really, no diversions.

Anyway, obviously as everybody can clearly see it would be morally wrong to hold politicians responsible for their bumbling and money wasting. It's the electorate which is to be blamed to have believe such stories like "rich in six months". They should have realised that was only valid for the 'right' people. Maybe it should be a crime to promote ponzi schemes and scams.

Oh, it's a crime already?

[khunken]

................."The farmers have been given nothing by this govt that goes beyond the norm.".......................

Amazing statement, even for you T@H. Given nothing except maybe the money that left owing to them by the previous regime for their rice crops.

The statement announced by PTP in defense of the rice pledging scheme is nearly as faulty as some of your excuses.

The system may have been hairbrained, dumb, stupid and all the rest. It doesnt make it illegal. Do you really think the farmers don't understand why the payment couldn't be made and why all of a sudden the junta could.

Do you really think there is any love for the junta among the farmers?

There you go again, changing the subject and throwing a smokescreen. I don't remember saying anything about it being illegal, that is you and LG and co. who harp on about that, trying to divert attention away from the facts. She is being charged with "dereliction of duty over her role in a controversial rice subsidy scheme", whether what she did was illegal or not is up to the court to decide.

I agree with you about it being harebrained, dumb, stupid etc. but what would you expect ? Yingluck said the buck stopped with her, and she did take the job on with no experience whatsoever in politics.

I don't know if there is any love for the junta among the farmers because the only rice farmers I know are my in-laws from Surin. Last time I was down there they did not mention the Junta but they sure did mention Yingluck. They were pissed off about receiving low prices for their last crop and they blamed her and the rice scam for that.

But this is the issue. It was a legal system, yet people harp on about it being fundamentally illegal because it was out of the main budget, was proposed as self financing but wasn't.

This is one of the fundamental problems with the concept of this case and trying to win it. At what point does damage by a govt official become something that should be chased in court.

Do you think they can win the case? They can,. Will it pass legal scrutiny? I don't think so. Are they right to chase her for damages. I don't think so because it opens up the accusation to be held over all future policy by all govts.

So I am not diverting anything. You guys think the govt has a rock solid case and a legal right to chase Yingluck. I don't, and if I discuss possibilities why a legal process might or should not continue to chase her, people on here try to say I am in some way a staunch red shirt supporter.

What I am, is willing to point out the pitfalls and absurdities and possible outcomes of a military junta that ousted an elected govt, then holding a former PM personally responsible for losses of a policy. If they chase her and win their 500bn back, it is extremely likely that there will be civil unrest sparked by the Shinawatra, or when elections come and they win, the legal retribution on the previous junta, yellows and others will ruin them.

Everyone has skeletons, and for the life of me, I don't understand the legal right to prosecute former PM and ministers for policies. Neither do I believe that there are many clean politicians on any side of this discussion, and the legal carnage that will be caused when PTP probably win the next election will know no bounds.

This action of chasing for damages is legally wrong and will inevitably cause problems for Thailand for many years to come.

Many on here like to think life is better under the junta. Their actions now are really pouring diesel on the fire. It could cause an inferno.

I don't know how many times you have used the 'illegal' term despite it being a straw man as I haven't seen any one claim it was illegal. It was a Thaksin ill-thought-out scheme that had lies & bs built in but I'm certainly not claiming it was illegal.

Besides the charge against Yingluck is negligence - NOT running an illegal scheme.

The second of your straw men is accusing others of stating that the junta has a 'rock-solid' case. Name one post that did just that. I certainly don't believe in KT-style 'rock-solid' cases. I do happen to have identified the lies in the Op being put forward by PT in her defence.

Corruption did occur and fake G-to-G 'deals' have already been identified & prosecuted and she had her party heavies remove a senior Commerce Ministry whistleblower whose knowledge (& presence) has been incorporated into the NACC case against Yingluck.

No, the actions against Yingluck will establish a precedent which may well benefit Thailand in future if it curtails politicians self/crony enrichment schemes.

You also say that farmers are not fans of the junta. Maybe, but many are no longer fans of PT after they were left in the unpaid lurch after Yinglucks dissolving of parliament and a fair number were violently prevented by a red shirt militias in demonstrating before they got paid.

Yes it is hard to find clean politicians anywhere but any attempt to stop some of them from getting away with corruption is beneficial to the country. One has to start somewhere & where better than at the top?

[Baerboxer]

He doesn't believe the Army propaganda - but laps up the Shin PR and repeats it at every opportunity.

He has to divert, attack the poster as he can't really defend the activities of bunch of crooks lying constantly whilst enriching themselves.

"enriching themselves" ANY evidence? or are you making it up as usual and then doing your 'smoke and mirrors' trick in defence of the Junta you heartily support? you think your post is NOT 'attacking the poster'? what a hypocrite you are

The master of hypocrisy accusing others - and you certainly are the master.

Where do you think all the billions went then? Certainly not to the poor. Perhaps Ms. Yingluck and her lawyers will provide accounts so we all know,

Again the "I'm not a Thaksin fan but" brigade, and you must be a senior member now, always accuse any who dare speak ill of the family of being Junta lovers.

Keep it up boys - your scraping the barrel defenses are becoming more and more amusing,

[Baerboxer]

The rice pledging scheme amounts to a social contract that the Pheu Thai party is obliged to implement

sure, you can look at that way, and you can also look at it this way:

The rice pledging scheme was a stupid piece of legislation implemented by an inept and clueless government who ran up gigantic losses without any oversight.

either way you look at it, it remains the Pheu Thai government's responsibility and no amount of wiggling will get you off the hook.

They were warned frequently that it would produce massive losses and given several opportunities to close this disastrous policy down, but did they listen? No, they did not and they must bear the consequences of their actions. It was a blatant bribe to their voting base to get elected and false unrealistic promises are not a legitimate policy platform to waste tax payers money on. The losses incurred of 600 billion baht of (all taxpayers) money so that they could fill up the piggy banks of rice growers is absurd!!

Why not give the rice growers the money direct - just think how far, say 100 billion baht would go if distributed evenly amongst them.

The scheme was designed for two reasons. To catch votes and more importantly to generate a large slush fund to grease the wheels of the corrupt Shin form of government. Lots of noses in that trough.

If the scheme worked, and hold suppliers created an increase in world price, all would have worked. Farmers would get a bit, many palms could be greased, the bank could be paid and no one rely the wiser. PTP never thought they'd be out of power, and fully expected a whitewashed Thaksin to be back and in full control.

When the wheels started falling off, they tried to get their hands on the 2.2 trillion loan. Just like the rice scheme, they wanted it off budget so they could avoid parliamentary questions and control over how it was spent. Transparency is not in their vocabulary,

Ponzi and other scam schemes are designed to be complicated so outsiders can't readily see through them.

[Kangaloo]

Witch Doctor diatribe from supposedly highly educated people to which they revert to and use in times when external pressures force them to react to knowingly truthful accusations

A complete and purposeful avoidance of any wrong doing,

The only defence left in the face of overwhelming facts is denial denial denial !!

[mikemac]

But this is the issue. It was a legal system, yet people harp on about it being fundamentally illegal because it was out of the main budget, was proposed as self financing but wasn't.

This is one of the fundamental problems with the concept of this case and trying to win it. At what point does damage by a govt official become something that should be chased in court.

Do you think they can win the case? They can,. Will it pass legal scrutiny? I don't think so. Are they right to chase her for damages. I don't think so because it opens up the accusation to be held over all future policy by all govts.

So I am not diverting anything. You guys think the govt has a rock solid case and a legal right to chase Yingluck. I don't, and if I discuss possibilities why a legal process might or should not continue to chase her, people on here try to say I am in some way a staunch red shirt supporter.

What I am, is willing to point out the pitfalls and absurdities and possible outcomes of a military junta that ousted an elected govt, then holding a former PM personally responsible for losses of a policy. If they chase her and win their 500bn back, it is extremely likely that there will be civil unrest sparked by the Shinawatra, or when elections come and they win, the legal retribution on the previous junta, yellows and others will ruin them.

Everyone has skeletons, and for the life of me, I don't understand the legal right to prosecute former PM and ministers for policies. Neither do I believe that there are many clean politicians on any side of this discussion, and the legal carnage that will be caused when PTP probably win the next election will know no bounds.

This action of chasing for damages is legally wrong and will inevitably cause problems for Thailand for many years to come.

Many on here like to think life is better under the junta. Their actions now are really pouring diesel on the fire. It could cause an inferno.

I don't know how many times you have used the 'illegal' term despite it being a straw man as I haven't seen any one claim it was illegal. It was a Thaksin ill-thought-out scheme that had lies & bs built in but I'm certainly not claiming it was illegal.

Besides the charge against Yingluck is negligence - NOT running an illegal scheme.

The second of your straw men is accusing others of stating that the junta has a 'rock-solid' case. Name one post that did just that. I certainly don't believe in KT-style 'rock-solid' cases. I do happen to have identified the lies in the Op being put forward by PT in her defence.

Corruption did occur and fake G-to-G 'deals' have already been identified & prosecuted and she had her party heavies remove a senior Commerce Ministry whistleblower whose knowledge (& presence) has been incorporated into the NACC case against Yingluck.

No, the actions against Yingluck will establish a precedent which may well benefit Thailand in future if it curtails politicians self/crony enrichment schemes.

You also say that farmers are not fans of the junta. Maybe, but many are no longer fans of PT after they were left in the unpaid lurch after Yinglucks dissolving of parliament and a fair number were violently prevented by a red shirt militias in demonstrating before they got paid.

Yes it is hard to find clean politicians anywhere but any attempt to stop some of them from getting away with corruption is beneficial to the country. One has to start somewhere & where better than at the top?

In his last post he used the terms legal or illegal about nine times.

It is a dismal attempt to distract attention away from the fact that Yingluck has been charged with dereliction of duty (negligence) over her role in the rice pledging scheme.

T@H and his two sidekicks have nothing to defend her with so they have resorted to bombarding the forum with anal comments about illegalities, accusations of being a staunch redshirt supporter, the fact that a military junta ousted an elected government, civil unrest, legal retribution, the fact that many TVF members think that life is better under the junta etc etc etc..................all to divert attention away from the facts.

[Thai at Heart]

But this is the issue. It was a legal system, yet people harp on about it being fundamentally illegal because it was out of the main budget, was proposed as self financing but wasn't.

This is one of the fundamental problems with the concept of this case and trying to win it. At what point does damage by a govt official become something that should be chased in court.

Do you think they can win the case? They can,. Will it pass legal scrutiny? I don't think so. Are they right to chase her for damages. I don't think so because it opens up the accusation to be held over all future policy by all govts.

So I am not diverting anything. You guys think the govt has a rock solid case and a legal right to chase Yingluck. I don't, and if I discuss possibilities why a legal process might or should not continue to chase her, people on here try to say I am in some way a staunch red shirt supporter.

What I am, is willing to point out the pitfalls and absurdities and possible outcomes of a military junta that ousted an elected govt, then holding a former PM personally responsible for losses of a policy. If they chase her and win their 500bn back, it is extremely likely that there will be civil unrest sparked by the Shinawatra, or when elections come and they win, the legal retribution on the previous junta, yellows and others will ruin them.

Everyone has skeletons, and for the life of me, I don't understand the legal right to prosecute former PM and ministers for policies. Neither do I believe that there are many clean politicians on any side of this discussion, and the legal carnage that will be caused when PTP probably win the next election will know no bounds.

This action of chasing for damages is legally wrong and will inevitably cause problems for Thailand for many years to come.

Many on here like to think life is better under the junta. Their actions now are really pouring diesel on the fire. It could cause an inferno.

I don't know how many times you have used the 'illegal' term despite it being a straw man as I haven't seen any one claim it was illegal. It was a Thaksin ill-thought-out scheme that had lies & bs built in but I'm certainly not claiming it was illegal.

Besides the charge against Yingluck is negligence - NOT running an illegal scheme.

The second of your straw men is accusing others of stating that the junta has a 'rock-solid' case. Name one post that did just that. I certainly don't believe in KT-style 'rock-solid' cases. I do happen to have identified the lies in the Op being put forward by PT in her defence.

Corruption did occur and fake G-to-G 'deals' have already been identified & prosecuted and she had her party heavies remove a senior Commerce Ministry whistleblower whose knowledge (& presence) has been incorporated into the NACC case against Yingluck.

No, the actions against Yingluck will establish a precedent which may well benefit Thailand in future if it curtails politicians self/crony enrichment schemes.

You also say that farmers are not fans of the junta. Maybe, but many are no longer fans of PT after they were left in the unpaid lurch after Yinglucks dissolving of parliament and a fair number were violently prevented by a red shirt militias in demonstrating before they got paid.

Yes it is hard to find clean politicians anywhere but any attempt to stop some of them from getting away with corruption is beneficial to the country. One has to start somewhere & where better than at the top?

In his last post he used the terms legal or illegal about nine times.

It is a dismal attempt to distract attention away from the fact that Yingluck has been charged with dereliction of duty (negligence) over her role in the rice pledging scheme.

T@H and his two sidekicks have nothing to defend her with so they have resorted to bombarding the forum with anal comments about illegalities, accusations of being a staunch redshirt supporter, the fact that a military junta ousted an elected government, civil unrest, legal retribution, the fact that many TVF members think that life is better under the junta etc etc etc..................all to divert attention away from the facts.

Do you really believe that this case is going to run as an open and shut case?

The issues around this case are going to cause problems for Thailand for a very long time if they pursue it.

Did you even notice last week that there is a provision for exempting cabinet ministers and the such from precisely this type of prosecution, but that they will rely on claiming Yingluck took these actions as a private individual not PM?

I don't understand why the mob mentality on here baying for blood takes it so hard that I can raise just a few issues and so many people appear to get quite so wound up about it.

If you can't see how bad a precedent this is to set, by prosecuting Yingluck in this way, under a military junta, then obviously you see the future Thailand in a very different way to me.

You tell me I have little to defend Yingluck with. I find it quite incongruous that few on here see little issue with throwing their support behind a govt sitting only through the power of a gun. The naivety of people on here thinking the junta is undertaking any actions with the long term good of the country as premier ideology is astonishing.

All these actions and this case will serve to achieve is to guarantee that Thailand will undergo longer and deeper problems in the next decade. They can find ways to keep Yingluck out of office without pursuing personal financial damages which is a very rare concept and smacks of a witch hunt.

All it will serve to do is open the junta to ridicule and guarantee more angst, and conflict on the streets. Great.

[mikemac]

Do you really believe that this case is going to run as an open and shut case?

The issues around this case are going to cause problems for Thailand for a very long time if they pursue it.

Did you even notice last week that there is a provision for exempting cabinet ministers and the such from precisely this type of prosecution, but that they will rely on claiming Yingluck took these actions as a private individual not PM?

I don't understand why the mob mentality on here baying for blood takes it so hard that I can raise just a few issues and so many people appear to get quite so wound up about it.

If you can't see how bad a precedent this is to set, by prosecuting Yingluck in this way, under a military junta, then obviously you see the future Thailand in a very different way to me.

You tell me I have little to defend Yingluck with. I find it quite incongruous that few on here see little issue with throwing their support behind a govt sitting only through the power of a gun. The naivety of people on here thinking the junta is undertaking any actions with the long term good of the country as premier ideology is astonishing.

All these actions and this case will serve to achieve is to guarantee that Thailand will undergo longer and deeper problems in the next decade. They can find ways to keep Yingluck out of office without pursuing personal financial damages which is a very rare concept and smacks of a witch hunt.

All it will serve to do is open the junta to ridicule and guarantee more angst, and conflict on the streets. Great.

......................"Do you really believe that this case is going to run as an open and shut case?".......................

I did not comment on that. I am just happy to see one of the "Elite" actually being taken to court and face charges for past sins, rather than get away with it, as is the norm in Thailand. (think Duangchalerm for example)

................."The issues around this case are going to cause problems for Thailand for a very long time if they pursue it."......................

IOW, let her off, it is too risky to charge her. Some people may not like it. (and the reds may be paid to rise up again)

....................."I find it quite incongruous that few on here see little issue with throwing their support behind a govt sitting only through the power of a gun. The naivety of people on here thinking the junta is undertaking any actions with the long term good of the country as premier ideology is astonishing."..........................

There you go again, you cannot help yourself. When all else fails attack those who dare to disagree with you.

I am not sure exactly who you are referring to but I for one don't think "the junta is undertaking any actions with the long term good of the country", and I doubt there would be very many members on TVF who did either. It is your imaginary enemy again.

......................"All it will serve to do is open the junta to ridicule and guarantee more angst, and conflict on the streets."...........................

You say the current government is "a govt sitting only through the power of a gun", but at the same time you are alluding to the fact that the reds will rise up again if anything happens to Yingluck. Why else would there be angst and conflict on the streets ?

It seems the country has a choice, either have a khaki gun held to it's head, or a red one.

[Thai at Heart]

Do you really believe that this case is going to run as an open and shut case?

The issues around this case are going to cause problems for Thailand for a very long time if they pursue it.

Did you even notice last week that there is a provision for exempting cabinet ministers and the such from precisely this type of prosecution, but that they will rely on claiming Yingluck took these actions as a private individual not PM?

I don't understand why the mob mentality on here baying for blood takes it so hard that I can raise just a few issues and so many people appear to get quite so wound up about it.

If you can't see how bad a precedent this is to set, by prosecuting Yingluck in this way, under a military junta, then obviously you see the future Thailand in a very different way to me.

You tell me I have little to defend Yingluck with. I find it quite incongruous that few on here see little issue with throwing their support behind a govt sitting only through the power of a gun. The naivety of people on here thinking the junta is undertaking any actions with the long term good of the country as premier ideology is astonishing.

All these actions and this case will serve to achieve is to guarantee that Thailand will undergo longer and deeper problems in the next decade. They can find ways to keep Yingluck out of office without pursuing personal financial damages which is a very rare concept and smacks of a witch hunt.

All it will serve to do is open the junta to ridicule and guarantee more angst, and conflict on the streets. Great.

......................"Do you really believe that this case is going to run as an open and shut case?".......................

I did not comment on that. I am just happy to see one of the "Elite" actually being taken to court and face charges for past sins, rather than get away with it, as is the norm in Thailand. (think Duangchalerm for example)

................."The issues around this case are going to cause problems for Thailand for a very long time if they pursue it."......................

IOW, let her off, it is too risky to charge her. Some people may not like it. (and the reds may be paid to rise up again)

....................."I find it quite incongruous that few on here see little issue with throwing their support behind a govt sitting only through the power of a gun. The naivety of people on here thinking the junta is undertaking any actions with the long term good of the country as premier ideology is astonishing."..........................

There you go again, you cannot help yourself. When all else fails attack those who dare to disagree with you.

I am not sure exactly who you are referring to but I for one don't think "the junta is undertaking any actions with the long term good of the country", and I doubt there would be very many members on TVF who did either. It is your imaginary enemy again.

......................"All it will serve to do is open the junta to ridicule and guarantee more angst, and conflict on the streets."...........................

You say the current government is "a govt sitting only through the power of a gun", but at the same time you are alluding to the fact that the reds will rise up again if anything happens to Yingluck. Why else would there be angst and conflict on the streets ?

It seems the country has a choice, either have a khaki gun held to it's head, or a red one.

I have never said let her off. Never have. Proving criminal acts in this context is in my opinion very difficult and may well fail.

Get her out of office and let it lie.

Chasing personal restitution of damages is going to be virtually impossible.

[rubl]

Do you really believe that this case is going to run as an open and shut case?

The issues around this case are going to cause problems for Thailand for a very long time if they pursue it.

Did you even notice last week that there is a provision for exempting cabinet ministers and the such from precisely this type of prosecution, but that they will rely on claiming Yingluck took these actions as a private individual not PM?

I don't understand why the mob mentality on here baying for blood takes it so hard that I can raise just a few issues and so many people appear to get quite so wound up about it.

If you can't see how bad a precedent this is to set, by prosecuting Yingluck in this way, under a military junta, then obviously you see the future Thailand in a very different way to me.

You tell me I have little to defend Yingluck with. I find it quite incongruous that few on here see little issue with throwing their support behind a govt sitting only through the power of a gun. The naivety of people on here thinking the junta is undertaking any actions with the long term good of the country as premier ideology is astonishing.

All these actions and this case will serve to achieve is to guarantee that Thailand will undergo longer and deeper problems in the next decade. They can find ways to keep Yingluck out of office without pursuing personal financial damages which is a very rare concept and smacks of a witch hunt.

All it will serve to do is open the junta to ridicule and guarantee more angst, and conflict on the streets. Great.

So, just for peace sake and reconciliation and so we should just drop it? Maybe also just drop the violence of 2013/2014, the 'fun' in 2010, 2009, 2008 ? Politicians can't help themselves, but are compelled to 'help' themselves and we should understand?

Democracy died when Ms. Yingluck was asked to show her responsibility and be accountable?

[Thai at Heart]

Do you really believe that this case is going to run as an open and shut case?

The issues around this case are going to cause problems for Thailand for a very long time if they pursue it.

Did you even notice last week that there is a provision for exempting cabinet ministers and the such from precisely this type of prosecution, but that they will rely on claiming Yingluck took these actions as a private individual not PM?

I don't understand why the mob mentality on here baying for blood takes it so hard that I can raise just a few issues and so many people appear to get quite so wound up about it.

If you can't see how bad a precedent this is to set, by prosecuting Yingluck in this way, under a military junta, then obviously you see the future Thailand in a very different way to me.

You tell me I have little to defend Yingluck with. I find it quite incongruous that few on here see little issue with throwing their support behind a govt sitting only through the power of a gun. The naivety of people on here thinking the junta is undertaking any actions with the long term good of the country as premier ideology is astonishing.

All these actions and this case will serve to achieve is to guarantee that Thailand will undergo longer and deeper problems in the next decade. They can find ways to keep Yingluck out of office without pursuing personal financial damages which is a very rare concept and smacks of a witch hunt.

All it will serve to do is open the junta to ridicule and guarantee more angst, and conflict on the streets. Great.

So, just for peace sake and reconciliation and so we should just drop it? Maybe also just drop the violence of 2013/2014, the 'fun' in 2010, 2009, 2008 ? Politicians can't help themselves, but are compelled to 'help' themselves and we should understand?

Democracy died when Ms. Yingluck was asked to show her responsibility and be accountable?

Passing personal damages against a PM isn't a correct use of the legal system.

It is a very unusual prosecution and she may even prove that she has immunity from this type of prosecution. So it isn't even 100% sure that she can even be prosecuted.

She is already banned for 5 years, chasing for damages caused by a policy is a very bad precedent to set. It will cause problems for every further political party to implement anything.

Carrying the prosecution out under a junta also devalues any judgement that will be made. It is the specific chasing for damages that I think is misplaced as a strategy.

It is going to be open to accusation of political bias from the first step. It will not put the issue of the Shinawatra, PTP being popular with the voting population. I believe it will make it worse. The odds they get one baht out of her are very low.

[halloween]

So, just for peace sake and reconciliation and so we should just drop it? Maybe also just drop the violence of 2013/2014, the 'fun' in 2010, 2009, 2008 ? Politicians can't help themselves, but are compelled to 'help' themselves and we should understand?

Democracy died when Ms. Yingluck was asked to show her responsibility and be accountable?

Passing personal damages against a PM isn't a correct use of the legal system.

It is a very unusual prosecution and she may even prove that she has immunity from this type of prosecution. So it isn't even 100% sure that she can even be prosecuted.

She is already banned for 5 years, chasing for damages caused by a policy is a very bad precedent to set. It will cause problems for every further political party to implement anything.

Carrying the prosecution out under a junta also devalues any judgement that will be made. It is the specific chasing for damages that I think is misplaced as a strategy.

It is going to be open to accusation of political bias from the first step. It will not put the issue of the Shinawatra, PTP being popular with the voting population. I believe it will make it worse. The odds they get one baht out of her are very low.

If the PM shouldn't be liable, who should? The chair of the Rice Policy Committee perhaps?

"It is going to be open to accusation of political bias from the first step"

Can you think of one prosecution of Thaksin or the Shinawatras that was NOT claimed to be political bias? Even when the facts prove they are guilty, the claim is "politically motivated prosecution" as if that has any reduction to guilt.

[Thai at Heart]

So, just for peace sake and reconciliation and so we should just drop it? Maybe also just drop the violence of 2013/2014, the 'fun' in 2010, 2009, 2008 ? Politicians can't help themselves, but are compelled to 'help' themselves and we should understand?

Democracy died when Ms. Yingluck was asked to show her responsibility and be accountable?

Passing personal damages against a PM isn't a correct use of the legal system.

It is a very unusual prosecution and she may even prove that she has immunity from this type of prosecution. So it isn't even 100% sure that she can even be prosecuted.

She is already banned for 5 years, chasing for damages caused by a policy is a very bad precedent to set. It will cause problems for every further political party to implement anything.

Carrying the prosecution out under a junta also devalues any judgement that will be made. It is the specific chasing for damages that I think is misplaced as a strategy.

It is going to be open to accusation of political bias from the first step. It will not put the issue of the Shinawatra, PTP being popular with the voting population. I believe it will make it worse. The odds they get one baht out of her are very low.

If the PM shouldn't be liable, who should? The chair of the Rice Policy Committee perhaps?

"It is going to be open to accusation of political bias from the first step"

Can you think of one prosecution of Thaksin or the Shinawatras that was NOT claimed to be political bias? Even when the facts prove they are guilty, the claim is "politically motivated prosecution" as if that has any reduction to guilt.

Personally for the loss? No one. It's a market loss. It was written last week that they will have to prove that she took this post as a private individual not a cabinet member, which would mean she should normally have immunity. Ministers and governments in just about every other grown up country have immunity for policy losses.

Then get her for lying to parliament. Presumably that is a criminal offence.

[mikemac]

............"It was written last week that they will have to prove that she took this post as a private individual not a cabinet member"..................

I would like to see that, would make interesting reading.

[LuckyNo4]

Good statement as nothing illegal has occurred and it's perfectly normal to subsidize farmers. It's NOT about rice!

Yes and where is the money for farmers ?

YL was negligent, she is not investigated on corruption in the scheme, and non payment of farmers.... in 2013 during her regime no poor farmers receive payment from her corrupt government

In western country a PM is responsible for the actions of his cabinet, some member of her cabinet make false declaration or made false deal with some obscure contractor to sell rice, to hide the rice scheme scandal

If i remember rightly didn't the current gang put a block on the bank that was organizing payment of funds to be paid to the farmers before the coup. In a western country leaders are not held personally responsible for failed policy. This is a witch hunt to destroy the opposition, always has been always will be.

[LannaGuy]

Good statement as nothing illegal has occurred and it's perfectly normal to subsidize farmers. It's NOT about rice!

Yes and where is the money for farmers ?

YL was negligent, she is not investigated on corruption in the scheme, and non payment of farmers.... in 2013 during her regime no poor farmers receive payment from her corrupt government

In western country a PM is responsible for the actions of his cabinet, some member of her cabinet make false declaration or made false deal with some obscure contractor to sell rice, to hide the rice scheme scandal

If i remember rightly didn't the current gang put a block on the bank that was organizing payment of funds to be paid to the farmers before the coup. In a western country leaders are not held personally responsible for failed policy. This is a witch hunt to destroy the opposition, always has been always will be.

Exactly what happened and "mysteriously" the banks lent to the guys with the guns when they took over