Enormous Shakeup Of Visa And Immigration Rules

[lebeau69]

Please also consider that this forum has been the only source of information for many farangs in the absence of any formal notification from Thai Immigration itself.

Thanks TV and George and Sunbelt for filling the information gap left by Immigration. It has helped us all to make sense of events which affect our lives fundamentally.

That is really appreciated by many readers

Not all of us have limitless funds, and there are a great many who have to come to stay and/or live in Thailand based on the visa riules as they understood them; with the utmost of good faith towards their hosts and with every intention of complying with the law, being good citizens and contributiong in some way to Thai society.

I was a teacher in LOS for 15 years University and International Organisation

At University my salary was peanuts

and it's still here nowadays

Most of the University Farang teachers get around 25 000 Bahts a month

How could they apply for a retirement visa when they are 60

Need to show 800 000 Bahts when they were paid 300 000 a year

Double standard !!!!

and to day 800 000 - with 300 0000 three months before are required

What about tomorrow

Difficult uncertainty

[kojak]

has anybody done the KL visa run yet?

1, i trust it is possible to get a 3 months visa from there, yes or no?

2, how long doz this process take? days or hours?

3, how much doz it cost for the 3 month visa?

4, any advice on the method of getting a 3 months visa?

cheers

[Gaudente]

And for those who always bring up the strict investment regulations, they must remember. Thai people wish to save the country's land for Thai people. If those regulations were ever lifted, the Saudi's and the Japanese would probably own half the country in under a year.

I suppose most Thai farmers would be glad to sell their land for some stratospheric price to an Arab or Japanese and then quit working and live on interests. And anyway, in such a big country I cannot really immagine foregneirs buying ALL the land leaving poor Thais without a shelter !

An easy solution would be to allow foreign people (not companies) to own a limited surface (something like 500 squared meters) to build their house with garden.

The sad truth is authorities are not concerned we farang buy everything, they simply want to keep Thai people under their grip DENYING THEM the opportunity to benefit from our money.

[Gaudente]

We, those of us living here are guests. I would encourage us to live quietly and peacefully. Let our "Jai rohn" tempers settle, and be pragmatic about the situation.

The problem is Immigration seems to encourage us to LEAVE....and not so quietly and peacefully I'm afraid

Edited October 6, 2006 by Gaudente

[BlackJack]

My heart goes out to all of you who have been caught up adversely in these visa changes, and I hope you all find your way forward, and the very best of luck.

Well said! Finally an acknowledgement that many people will slip through the cracks despite their best efforts and commitments here.

I have no sympathy for those who have chosen Thailand as a spot to drink or <deleted> themselves to death or who become a liability to the Thai police or their embassies. However, this is a small minority of farangs who have chosen to live in Thailand.

Arrr you're just jealous that all

To the judgmental posters who have shown zilch compassion for those who have to leave, please consider the lack of a lead time by Thai Immigration for these changes:

For many 3 weeks notice is insufficient to get a work permit, or transfer funds, or sell foreign real estate or whatever.

Please also consider that this forum has been the only source of information for many farangs in the absence of any formal notification from Thai Immigration itself.

Thanks TV and George for filling the information gap left by Immigration. It has helped us all to make sense of events which affect our lives fundamentally.

[Pringle]

The reality is the work permit application system is archaic, ridiculously paper intensive, time consuming and fraught with delays and administration problems: I have been through the process, twice, and have experienced it all first hand – I still have nightmares over the last application which required me to submit over 300 sheets of paper. Put bluntly, the work permit application system is insane. Despite the size of the company with its international reputation and known huge Thai inward investment, each application takes not less than three months from the time of application to the time immigration approves the papers. Each delay and one month’s extension requires an additional trip to the work office to apply for one month work permit extension, and the payment of 870 baht per extension. The cost to my company is huge, both in financial terms and in man hours lost.

The work permit if it’s done in Bangkok should only take 10-14 days max to obtain. Once you do obtain it, on page 5 of the work permit, you should find its good for one year while being valid for the length of your visa.

Immigration is the department that takes three months normally before they give final approval for the year. Each time Immigration gives you a 30 day under consideration stamp, then you or your rep are required to go to the Labor Dept and get the 30 day revalidation until you get the one year from Immigration.

So if this is what is experienced by a large multi-national, one with an experienced immigration/work permit specialist, what chance does an individual have in tackling the application process?

If your company has registered capital of 30 million Baht, then the whole process for the one year visa and work permit are done in three hours at the One Stop Center. You only need to deal with it once a year.

The solution to the illegal working is not in the visa system – the work permit system needs urgent reform. It needs to be aware of current international business and trade: Thailand has not woken up to the crucial factor of the Internet. It created a level playing field where people can work anywhere in the world. The current system makes no allowances for those who live here but work via the net … five close friends live here working internationally via VPN’s – virtual private networks. One is an architectural technician, another a computer graphics specialist (living here for many years and supporting a large extended Thai family): Two work in publishing, proofreading and typesetting. All would love to work here legally: They cannot because there is no provision under which they can be granted a work permit.

They can. They can form a company with a Thai ( or if they are in mfg, export, or hotel mgmt, they can own the business 100% with no Thai involvement) and obtain a work permit.

They can also get a work permit via working for a natural person who paid 50K in tax last year, or who employs 4 Thais. If they have a Thai wife, it's just 25,000 Baht tax or 2 Thai employees.

The work permit itself is not a problem to obtain, it's Immigration that takes the time and has tons pf paperwork.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Many thanks for this information. Perhaps there should be a catagory on the Forum dedicated to how SME's can be formed. My understanding the difficulty that many of these self-employed "off-shore" workers is they do not receive a regular income - no self employed person does. For that reason, applying for work permits is out.

If the true reason is to stop people working here illegally and therefore not paying tax and other contributions, is it that unreasonable to suggest they introduce a modified B-visa or a fast track system so those resonsible poeople living here can pay taxes and contribute more to society.

By chance, I had lunch with the technical writer I mentioned in my OP. His bags are packed and next week he is off to live in Laos. His comment was "Its Thailand, ten years ago". I asked roughly how much he spent in Thailand last year - he calculated it was around 650 - 700K (he bought a car this year). He's no cheap charlie by any means and definately not a whoremonger or a demon-druggie. But he has had enough of the uncertainly and is off. He may come back if the situation changes. Or he might like the more laid back Laos and stay there - they certainly want his money.

Since he isn't the only one I know has pushed off, it begs the question of what this is costing the country. Has anyone actually calculated the full cost of this exodus of professional people? The minimum is way over the billion baht in lost cash from living expenses. The withdrawal of savings and the downturn in the condo market (assuming it is as badly affected as some fear/suspect), then figure will be 100 billion plus.

Is this loss less or greater than the lost tax revenues.

I think Thailand has shot herself in the foot on this one, because they are now in a loss/loss situation. The real investors have had a bad attack of the concerns by recent events and are not inwardly investing, and the unwanted continue to loophole around the problem and stay here.

TIT.

Pringle.

PS:

If your company has registered capital of 30 million Baht, then the whole process for the one year visa and work permit are done in three hours at the One Stop Center. You only need to deal with it once a year.

I wish I had known about this - the company I am with is a billion baht investory with over 150 on staff. First time took 7 months to achieve. The problem is I do not have a degree and Thai expect all professional to have degrees: When it was pointed out that np university in Thailand or Europe had a degree course, they relented. I am a technical specialist with 34 years of pro-experience, at one point being in the top 5 in my profession in London. In europe there are less than 50 of us. As such, no University is going to run a 3 year BA for that. I do have a handful of professional certification etc from technical and engineering colleges.

[amarka]

Whats all this cheap charlie s**te ? Its not only " cheap charlies " that are affected by this . I have invested 5 million baht here , house and condo freehold , Im married to a Thai , I have over 400 K in a Thai bank , and in a UK bank for that matter . I also have money coming in to another UK bank which is being withdrawn in Thailand every month . My wife earns over 20 K a month here also . But still it seems I may have to return to the UK every year for a new visa because I dont meet the new requirements even for a marriage visa . Am I a cheap charlie too ? And whats wrong with drinking beer ??? !!!!!!!

Why have u a problem if your properly married you still only need 400k or income or both for a proper support thai visa if your not properly married (ie only tribal) and under 50 then you have a problem - one you could have solved by old investment visa (3mill baht)

So please tell us why you dont meet requirements

hi...

seems to me that you are ok and would get a visa easily...

and no.... there is noting wrong with drinking beer.....

amarka

[Sunbelt Asia]

Many thanks for this information. Perhaps there should be a catagory on the Forum dedicated to how SME's can be formed. My understanding the difficulty that many of these self-employed "off-shore" workers is they do not receive a regular income - no self employed person does. For that reason, applying for work permits is out.

We are happy to help any of our friends. Ask them to call and we'll advise a legal solution in their case.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[fruittbatt]

Nice avatar, BlackJack. Tasteful. Anyone we know? Or does it just sum up the way you feel about the new visa regs?

Edited October 6, 2006 by fruittbatt

[BlackJack]

Nice avatar, BlackJack. Tasteful. Anyone we know? Or does it just sum up the way you feel about the new visa regs?

typical cant stay on the subject for 5 mins

[fruittbatt]

Nice avatar, BlackJack. Tasteful. Anyone we know? Or does it just sum up the way you feel about the new visa regs?

typical cant stay on the subject for 5 mins

Been hangin' in with this topic from the start...don't you have other things to poo err... read that again...do? So far the thread has been a good exchange of information and very helpful. Let's keep it that way.

Edited October 6, 2006 by fruittbatt

[Bagwan]

My application for a Married Man's Visa was turned down two weeks ago (after a wait of two months!) on the grounds that I did not have enough money in my bank account. Although I stated that I had accounts with three banks in Thailand and the total amount in credit was in excess of 400K this was not acceptable to the powers that be. I was told that I should have to re-apply, fork out 1900 baht plus provide all the medical certificate and photograph crap and this time leave my money in the designated account for a minimum of three months. No explanation was forthcoming as to why I hadn't been informed of this when I made the application.

I did this, this time applying for a Retirement Visa since I will not be told where I keep and what I do with my well earned money by anybody. As soon as I had the stamp in my passport, I went to my bank and transferred most of my money back to the Channel Islands and intend to keep minimum credit balances here. A tad childish perhaps but I felt better for it.

I also had a conversation with the Honorary British Consul in Pattaya who advised me to give him a large amount of dosh and he would issue a certificate stating that I had sufficient pension and annuity income to meet current Thai requirements. He advised me that the certificate would be valid for only two years, that the charges were set by the Foreign Office (and FO to you too!) and that by dealing through him I would be saving myself the hassle of going to BKK and joining the queue at the Embassy. I intend going by this route in future and have heard that the issue is practically automatic, no questions asked. Maybe somebody here can advise me whether this is true or not. In the case of the US Embassy I am assure by friends that this is so.

It is to be hoped that the lot currently getting their feet under the table have more nous than those we have been force to endure hitherto and that they will be more farang resident friendly.

[bkkandrew]

The reality is the work permit application system is archaic, ridiculously paper intensive, time consuming and fraught with delays and administration problems: I have been through the process, twice, and have experienced it all first hand – I still have nightmares over the last application which required me to submit over 300 sheets of paper. Put bluntly, the work permit application system is insane. Despite the size of the company with its international reputation and known huge Thai inward investment, each application takes not less than three months from the time of application to the time immigration approves the papers. Each delay and one month’s extension requires an additional trip to the work office to apply for one month work permit extension, and the payment of 870 baht per extension. The cost to my company is huge, both in financial terms and in man hours lost.

The work permit if it’s done in Bangkok should only take 10-14 days max to obtain. Once you do obtain it, on page 5 of the work permit, you should find its good for one year while being valid for the length of your visa.

Immigration is the department that takes three months normally before they give final approval for the year. Each time Immigration gives you a 30 day under consideration stamp, then you or your rep are required to go to the Labor Dept and get the 30 day revalidation until you get the one year from Immigration.

So if this is what is experienced by a large multi-national, one with an experienced immigration/work permit specialist, what chance does an individual have in tackling the application process?

If your company has registered capital of 30 million Baht, then the whole process for the one year visa and work permit are done in three hours at the One Stop Center. You only need to deal with it once a year.

The solution to the illegal working is not in the visa system – the work permit system needs urgent reform. It needs to be aware of current international business and trade: Thailand has not woken up to the crucial factor of the Internet. It created a level playing field where people can work anywhere in the world. The current system makes no allowances for those who live here but work via the net … five close friends live here working internationally via VPN’s – virtual private networks. One is an architectural technician, another a computer graphics specialist (living here for many years and supporting a large extended Thai family): Two work in publishing, proofreading and typesetting. All would love to work here legally: They cannot because there is no provision under which they can be granted a work permit.

They can. They can form a company with a Thai ( or if they are in mfg, export, or hotel mgmt, they can own the business 100% with no Thai involvement) and obtain a work permit.

They can also get a work permit via working for a natural person who paid 50K in tax last year, or who employs 4 Thais. If they have a Thai wife, it's just 25,000 Baht tax or 2 Thai employees.

The work permit itself is not a problem to obtain, it's Immigration that takes the time and has tons pf paperwork.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Many thanks for this information. Perhaps there should be a catagory on the Forum dedicated to how SME's can be formed. My understanding the difficulty that many of these self-employed "off-shore" workers is they do not receive a regular income - no self employed person does. For that reason, applying for work permits is out.

If the true reason is to stop people working here illegally and therefore not paying tax and other contributions, is it that unreasonable to suggest they introduce a modified B-visa or a fast track system so those resonsible poeople living here can pay taxes and contribute more to society.

By chance, I had lunch with the technical writer I mentioned in my OP. His bags are packed and next week he is off to live in Laos. His comment was "Its Thailand, ten years ago". I asked roughly how much he spent in Thailand last year - he calculated it was around 650 - 700K (he bought a car this year). He's no cheap charlie by any means and definately not a whoremonger or a demon-druggie. But he has had enough of the uncertainly and is off. He may come back if the situation changes. Or he might like the more laid back Laos and stay there - they certainly want his money.

Since he isn't the only one I know has pushed off, it begs the question of what this is costing the country. Has anyone actually calculated the full cost of this exodus of professional people? The minimum is way over the billion baht in lost cash from living expenses. The withdrawal of savings and the downturn in the condo market (assuming it is as badly affected as some fear/suspect), then figure will be 100 billion plus.

Is this loss less or greater than the lost tax revenues.

I think Thailand has shot herself in the foot on this one, because they are now in a loss/loss situation. The real investors have had a bad attack of the concerns by recent events and are not inwardly investing, and the unwanted continue to loophole around the problem and stay here.

TIT.

Pringle.

PS:

Good post..

Have bloody started laos language lessons.. I am too old for another language, but never mind!

[Mobi]

My application for a Married Man's Visa was turned down two weeks ago (after a wait of two months!) on the grounds that I did not have enough money in my bank account. Although I stated that I had accounts with three banks in Thailand and the total amount in credit was in excess of 400K this was not acceptable to the powers that be. I was told that I should have to re-apply, fork out 1900 baht plus provide all the medical certificate and photograph crap and this time leave my money in the designated account for a minimum of three months. No explanation was forthcoming as to why I hadn't been informed of this when I made the application.

I did this, this time applying for a Retirement Visa since I will not be told where I keep and what I do with my well earned money by anybody. As soon as I had the stamp in my passport, I went to my bank and transferred most of my money back to the Channel Islands and intend to keep minimum credit balances here. A tad childish perhaps but I felt better for it.

I also had a conversation with the Honorary British Consul in Pattaya who advised me to give him a large amount of dosh and he would issue a certificate stating that I had sufficient pension and annuity income to meet current Thai requirements. He advised me that the certificate would be valid for only two years, that the charges were set by the Foreign Office (and FO to you too!) and that by dealing through him I would be saving myself the hassle of going to BKK and joining the queue at the Embassy. I intend going by this route in future and have heard that the issue is practically automatic, no questions asked. Maybe somebody here can advise me whether this is true or not. In the case of the US Embassy I am assure by friends that this is so.

It is to be hoped that the lot currently getting their feet under the table have more nous than those we have been force to endure hitherto and that they will be more farang resident friendly.

Exactly the same thing happened to me back in February when I foolishly tried to change from a retirement visa to a marriage visa, as I wanted to restrict the amount of cash I left in a non interest bearing account. I went through the 2 month "under consideration" process, and was then refused on the grounds that my balance had fallen below 400K. I wasn't aware it had to be maintained at 400K. I showed the officer all my other bank books which showed movement of millions of baht to thailand (to buy a house etc) and that I had other accounts that were in excess of 400K. he didn't give a shit and wrote in my passport "insufficient funds" in Thai and gave me 7 days to leave the country.

I immediately went back to the bank and transferred in from another one of my Thai accounts the necessary funds to top up to 800K, went back to immigration with the bank letter and got a one year retirement extension in about 1 hour.

Total bloody, insane madness - but there you are - TIT

Where is the honoray British consul in Pattaya? I didn't know there was one - sounds like he might be useful.

Thanks

Mobi

[Noel]

I also had a conversation with the Honorary British Consul in Pattaya who advised me to give him a large amount of dosh and he would issue a certificate stating that I had sufficient pension and annuity income to meet current Thai requirements. He advised me that the certificate would be valid for only two years, that the charges were set by the Foreign Office (and FO to you too!) and that by dealing through him I would be saving myself the hassle of going to BKK and joining the queue at the Embassy. I intend going by this route in future and have heard that the issue is practically automatic, no questions asked. Maybe somebody here can advise me whether this is true or not. In the case of the US Embassy I am assure by friends that this is so.

I take it you are referring to Barry Kenyon.

I was under the impression that his role was limited to representing the British Embassy's interests in terms of assisting British subjects in times of difficulty.

Since when has he been able to certify UK sourced income?

Moreover, you make it sound as though you will be paying him money under the table.

I wonder if anyone at the British Embassy reads Thaivisa.com...

[fishhooks]

I would like to ask a question regarding the "current" 800,000 in ones account for maintaining a Retirement Visa.

Understand the requirement for this amount to be in a Thai account for at least 3 months, but is this 'magical' figure that they look at the end of the story, or do they look at the history of this amount in your book to see the in and outgoings around the qualifying period.

The reasons I am asking the above are:

At present I do qualify by age and can keep 800,000 + in my Thai account.

I live in Australia and want to spend a very major part of each year in Thailand, most likely 80 - 90% of the time, with a few short trips home each year.

I would prefer to keep my Thai account 'topped up' by me making regular deposits in person when in Thailand, RATHER than setting up regular transfers from Australia. Why; Because unless someone can advise me to the contrary, bank transfers between Australia and Thailand usually involve a fairly hefty fee at the Ausy end (around A$30) and for memory even at the Thai end another largish fee gets subtracted from the same transaction.

If one needs to do this on a fairly regular basis, like monthly, you are throwing a lot of good spending money away into the ocean between here and there!

[lopburi3]

Do not believe you need to make the transfers monthly - I do every 3 or 4 months (although admit I use pension rather than deposit to qualify). The max charge in Thailand is 200 baht. The exchange rate is better than cash. So even with the high wire transfer fee you will probably make money using it rather than cash. It also provides the proof if immigration wants to check the foreign source of your deposit money.

[hughden]

As British Consul in Pattaya, Barry Kenyon provides pension letters under the authority of the embassy.

The "large amount of dosh" is the standard fee of 1,763ht for which a receipt is issued. The evidence required in support of the letter is the same as required by the embassy; the advantage is that you do not need to trail up to BKK and queue up at the embassy.

Barry provides a great service to Brits in Pattaya, there is certainly no deviation from UK embassy rules when it comes to pension letters, and it does Barry a dis-service to imply otherwise.

[Noel]

As British Consul in Pattaya, Barry Kenyon provides pension letters under the authority of the embassy.

The "large amount of dosh" is the standard fee of 1,763ht for which a receipt is issued. The evidence required in support of the letter is the same as required by the embassy; the advantage is that you do not need to trail up to BKK and queue up at the embassy.

Barry provides a great service to Brits in Pattaya, there is certainly no deviation from UK embassy rules when it comes to pension letters, and it does Barry a dis-service to imply otherwise.

I fully agree; it was my understanding that Barry has and continues to do a 'sterling' job.

Perhaps 'Bagwan' would like to explain as to why he clearly implied otherwise... ?

[dsfbrit]

I will qualify for a "retirement" visa next year and I was just wondering if anyone had any insight into how the 800,000 baht per year figure was arrived at. The figure would appear to be quite high, what level of seniority would a Thai police officer, government official or military officer have to reach in order to receive a salary of 65,000 - 70,000 per month (not including tea money)? I am also surprised that there seems to be no consideration taken as to the location and circumstances of the retiree, clearly if someone opts to live "by the sea" or in Bangkok then their expenses would be considerably higher than a person living in Khon Kaen, Udon Thani or Mahasarakham in a house that they had paid for to be built and so would not have to make provision for rent each month. I also notice the disparity between the amount required to gain a visa "by reason of marriage to a Thai national" (400,000 baht per year) and the retirement visa cost. How can it be assumed that a retired person, possibly living alone, would need twice the income of a person who is maintining a wife/family, it just seems strange to me.

Many countries want to see something in the bank so you don't become a burden should anything go bad for you. Countries can set the amount they deem appropriate and for Thailand they want to see 800K in the bank (or 400K if you have a Thai wife).

This is about US$20K which seems to me about what would be necessary for a reasonable standard of living and/or enough to pay for serious medical expense and airfare home if need be. Marriage to a Thai may seem in their eyes a reasonable form of commitment to the country.

Anybody who can't scare up US$20K to keep in the bank is obviously not the type they want and where is the problem with that? Who wants people using their country as a flophouse? I don't want it in my country and I doubt many others would want it either.

Some people think its their right to live in someone else's country no matter their circumstances. Well its not, its a privilege.

This and recent postings by Baboon, Pringle & Modi D'Ark seem to me to be the most intelligent and compassionate responses to the various issues of late.

I am in a very odd situation - basically "sitting on the fence". I'm here in the UK having had my house on the market since April and am waiting for the offers to match my asking price. Meanwhile I'm working and earning money for the retirement pot and the privilege of spending it in Thailand.

I'm single, over 50 and, by TODAY'S rules, can easily qualify for a retirement visa.

I have already decided to rent somewhere to live in Thailand rather than buy - on my last trip in April, I came to that conclusion based on the fact that I THOUGHT that the "30 year renewable" leases and company house purchase schemes were both vulnerable. With regard to the former I still think the same and I gain NO satisfaction in being proven right about the latter.

In the course of 7 months, the "established" means for Farang to live in Thailand have been rocked to their foundations. Now I realise that SOME of the visa rule changes are actually just enforcements of existing rules and not really changes at all. The uncaring would simply say (as many have) "Som nam na" to those who have been bending the rules - personally I have friends in that situation and I am truly sorry for them.

OK there is a "chancer" element amongst the Farang in Thailand. I don't beleive they are all bad people just as I don't beleive they are all good.

So what's my point? Well, I have been planning my retirement in Thailand for the last 5 years - I first thought about it 10 years ago! Now what do I do? Sell up and say "retire and be dammed" and HOPE THAT THERE ARE NO MORE CHANGES TO COME or give up the dream that has been just out of reach for so long? This is clearly a rhetorical question - as someone said on here "it's my life" so I shall make the decision, but it gives me a feeling of severe unease, when retirement is surely meant to be a relaxing time to which one looks forward.

As for those already in Thailand with nowhere else to go, who were doing things as they thought they should and hitherto felt secure - you have my sympathy and good wishes for your futures.

Finally my thanks also to TV, George and Sunbelt for keeping us up to speed.

Mike

Come over - enjoy it. I am also 50 years old and have a reasonably sized house just outside Pattaya. I bought it through the company route - which I now think was a mistake - oh well.

With all the changes that have 'rocked foundations' etc... I personally have noticed no difference to my life on a daily basis whatsoever. True I have looked into all the options of this company land ownership thing, but as I have a Thai wife I am not totally without options - but that is a different forum topic methinks. If you come over here now and rent a condo or buy a condo - not through the company route! or rent a house, and keep your money in the UK earning interest - what real risks are there. AS long as you follow the rule I read a few months ago on this forum 'DO NOT BRING ANY MORE MONEY INTO THAILAND THANYOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE' Now get back to looking forward to coming and retiring over here - you wont regret it!!

And I agree its a great pity for those who cannot live here and may have to leave, but that isn't you or me - so good luck...

[hunter2000]

AS long as you follow the rule I read a few months ago on this forum 'DO NOT BRING ANY MORE MONEY INTO THAILAND THANYOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE' Now get back to looking forward to coming and retiring over here - you wont regret it!!

Sounds nice, and I thought and handled it in the same way for 12 years now.

In the moment I regret, that I wasn't courageously enough to move from TH to Malaysia or Cambodia some years ago, when I could see the first signs of TH's "downfall" in view of visa-& land+ house-regulations for foreigners.

I'm not affected by the new visa-regulations yet, but I'm really tired about the every-day/every-month-changes of law.

Additional, if you aren't a big fan of red-light-districts, drinking-parties, and jungle-trips, you're in the wrong country definitely!

Nice beaches, good climate and more educated locals you can find in the neighbor-countries already, include better comfort and regulations for less money.

Of course, I'll observe the situation in TH little bit longer more, but I'm nearly sure that I'll leave.

In this case I’ll do WITH my money (thanks God/Buddha/whatever, that I never made any big investment here!)

[number6]

Whats all this cheap charlie s**te ? Its not only " cheap charlies " that are affected by this . I have invested 5 million baht here , house and condo freehold , Im married to a Thai , I have over 400 K in a Thai bank , and in a UK bank for that matter . I also have money coming in to another UK bank which is being withdrawn in Thailand every month . My wife earns over 20 K a month here also . But still it seems I may have to return to the UK every year for a new visa because I dont meet the new requirements even for a marriage visa . Am I a cheap charlie too ? And whats wrong with drinking beer ??? !!!!!!!

Why have u a problem if your properly married you still only need 400k or income or both for a proper support thai visa if your not properly married (ie only tribal) and under 50 then you have a problem - one you could have solved by old investment visa (3mill baht)

So please tell us why you dont meet requirements

Errrrr read the posts , thai immigration require 40,000 baht income per month . I dont make that here . I have the 400,000 yes . But that is abolished . I have 20 - 30 K baht a month from UK maybe , what Im saying is I may not qualify cos I dont work here . And many others wont . Many decent people who have wives here wont . Thats the sad part .

Still , always look on the bright side eh ?

ummmm so you cant show 40k income - its not from here its a letter from embassy - no your wrong you only need to have transferred 400k initially from abroad to get your first visa if your properly married and then make sure you have at least that every year

Edited by Admin2

[amarka]

I also had a conversation with the Honorary British Consul in Pattaya who advised me to give him a large amount of dosh and he would issue a certificate stating that I had sufficient pension and annuity income to meet current Thai requirements. He advised me that the certificate would be valid for only two years, that the charges were set by the Foreign Office (and FO to you too!) and that by dealing through him I would be saving myself the hassle of going to BKK and joining the queue at the Embassy. I intend going by this route in future and have heard that the issue is practically automatic, no questions asked. Maybe somebody here can advise me whether this is true or not. In the case of the US Embassy I am assure by friends that this is so.

I take it you are referring to Barry Kenyon.

I was under the impression that his role was limited to representing the British Embassy's interests in terms of assisting British subjects in times of difficulty.

Since when has he been able to certify UK sourced income?

Moreover, you make it sound as though you will be paying him money under the table.

I wonder if anyone at the British Embassy reads Thaivisa.com...

ohhh..

well done...

names .. corruption and you guys moan about thailand being corrupt...

amarka

Edited October 7, 2006 by amarka

[amarka]

As British Consul in Pattaya, Barry Kenyon provides pension letters under the authority of the embassy.

The "large amount of dosh" is the standard fee of 1,763ht for which a receipt is issued. The evidence required in support of the letter is the same as required by the embassy; the advantage is that you do not need to trail up to BKK and queue up at the embassy.

Barry provides a great service to Brits in Pattaya, there is certainly no deviation from UK embassy rules when it comes to pension letters, and it does Barry a dis-service to imply otherwise.

hi

( nice pic) - sorry off topic

errrrr .... but yes- your explanation of the function of Mr Kenyon sounds much better and i hope it is true...

amarka

[Fanta]

ATTENTION: (anyone who can help and SUNBELT! your opinion please and the FACTS)

OK please guys.. I know this might have been answered or speculated on but I really need clarity once and for all on my specific case...

I left Thailand on September 14th 2006.. I have like 10 VOA stamps in my passport.

I am returning at the begining of Novemeber 2006 and want to stay till end of March 2007.

This is want I want to know? (is this allowed etc. under new system?)

I get a touist visa at Thai Embassy in New Zealand (I am not an NZ citizen but Canadian in NZ)

* First thing that is unclear: Is new tourist visa straight up 90days built in or is it still 60day+30extenable in Bangkok... Has Thai Government truly made the switch to this new 90day built in? Will the one they give me here in NZ be the old 60+30day but immigration will no longer let me extend down in Silom? (sort of 'the squeeze catch 22' as the old becomes new?)

Also does anyone know do I have to really need to show my bank statement and return ticket when applying for toursist visa in western nation (NZ)? I will post my application and passport by mail so I just can't ask them at the embassy when I apply.

* Next thing that is unclear is the reality and truth of if Tourist Visa days also count as total days(90days)?

Ok so my 90 days (or 60day if I get the 'squeeze') are over. I go to Cambodia (maybe I go for a couple weeks holiday or maybe I turn right around at Poipet or Koh Kong<if i decided to holiday in Sanoukville>... Will I be given a 30day VOA??? That is the major question here boys?? Will they give me a 30day VOA once they see I have just had 90 days in Thailand?!? Also will they discriminate seeing my passport full of VOA's and Cambodian Visa's from all of 2005/2006?

Ultimatley I need 5 months in Thailand in this trip (although I might take 3-4wks in Cambodia) That means I use my 90day Tourist Visa first. Then I will still need 1 or 2 VOA's gotten from Cambodian border check points for like February and/or March 2007. *Finally the big question: Will they give me these 2 VOA's after I already had 90 days straight in Thailand by way of a Tourist Visa? I have read all the info but I am still confused as if REALLY is the 90day limit allowed by way of VOA's or is it just 90days period! in a 6 month period??!?

My trip planning depends or hangs on knowing if I can jockey this Tourist Visa FIRST and then 2 VOA's after.

I have been reading as much as I can offical and posts ... Most guys are asking if they can use their 3 VOA's first and then get a Tourist Visa after in Cambodia or Malayasia etc. AFTER 90 day VOA exhustion. I want to know about the reversed situation. I am sure the answer (speculation) is in a post some where but I want my specifics addressed please! SUNBELT are you listening as well??

Thanks in Advance!

[Firefan]

Fanta: no 90 day tourist visa. It was a mistake by Pattaya journalist. 60+30 days(extended for 1900 Baht in Thailand) is still the rule.

Yes, you SHOULD be able to combine tourist visa/30 day visa-free stamps any way you want. Only the visa free stamps count towards the 90 days in 180 day period. rule

Whether embassies will get tougher is hard to say - as it stands today you should get the single tourist visa without any problems. Cheers!

[Sunbelt Asia]

I get a touist visa at Thai Embassy in New Zealand (I am not an NZ citizen but Canadian in NZ)

* First thing that is unclear: Is new tourist visa straight up 90days built in or is it still 60day+30extenable in Bangkok... Has Thai Government truly made the switch to this new 90day built in? Will the one they give me here in NZ be the old 60+30day but immigration will no longer let me extend down in Silom? (sort of 'the squeeze catch 22' as the old becomes new?)

You get 60 days +30 days that you can extend in Thailand.

Also does anyone know do I have to really need to show my bank statement and return ticket when applying for toursist visa in western nation (NZ)? I will post my application and passport by mail so I just can't ask them at the embassy when I apply.

Depends on the Embassy. This is not required in NZ.

* Next thing that is unclear is the reality and truth of if Tourist Visa days also count as total days(90days)?

As of now, it is days.

Ok so my 90 days (or 60day if I get the 'squeeze') are over. I go to Cambodia (maybe I go for a couple weeks holiday or maybe I turn right around at Poipet or Koh Kong<if i decided to holiday in Sanoukville>... Will I be given a 30day VOA??? That is the major question here boys?? Will they give me a 30day VOA once they see I have just had 90 days in Thailand?!? Also will they discriminate seeing my passport full of VOA's and Cambodian Visa's from all of 2005/2006?

They have stated that it will be allowed for you to get a 30 day tourist visa exemption stamp up to 90 days in a six month period. After 30 days you need to obtain another 30 day tourist visa exemption stamp.

Ultimatley I need 5 months in Thailand in this trip (although I might take 3-4wks in Cambodia) That means I use my 90day Tourist Visa first. Then I will still need 1 or 2 VOA's gotten from Cambodian border check points for like February and/or March 2007. *Finally the big question: Will they give me these 2 VOA's after I already had 90 days straight in Thailand by way of a Tourist Visa? I have read all the info but I am still confused as if REALLY is the 90day limit allowed by way of VOA's or is it just 90days period! in a 6 month period??!?

Yes, you should be allowed by the rules, two more tourist visa exemption stamps.

I have been reading as much as I can offical and posts ... Most guys are asking if they can use their 3 VOA's first and then get a Tourist Visa after in Cambodia or Malayasia etc. AFTER 90 day VOA exhustion. I want to know about the reversed situation. I am sure the answer (speculation) is in a post some where but I want my specifics addressed please! SUNBELT are you listening as well??

Hope this helps. Have a good time in Thailand.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[dsfbrit]

Whats all this cheap charlie s**te ? Its not only " cheap charlies " that are affected by this . I have invested 5 million baht here , house and condo freehold , Im married to a Thai , I have over 400 K in a Thai bank , and in a UK bank for that matter . I also have money coming in to another UK bank which is being withdrawn in Thailand every month . My wife earns over 20 K a month here also . But still it seems I may have to return to the UK every year for a new visa because I dont meet the new requirements even for a marriage visa . Am I a cheap charlie too ? And whats wrong with drinking beer ??? !!!!!!!

Why have u a problem if your properly married you still only need 400k or income or both for a proper support thai visa if your not properly married (ie only tribal) and under 50 then you have a problem - one you could have solved by old investment visa (3mill baht)

So please tell us why you dont meet requirements

Errrrr read the posts , thai immigration require 40,000 baht income per month . I dont make that here . I have the 400,000 yes . But that is abolished . I have 20 - 30 K baht a month from UK maybe , what Im saying is I may not qualify cos I dont work here . And many others wont . Many decent people who have wives here wont . Thats the sad part .

Still , always look on the bright side eh ?

ummmm so you cant show 40k income - its not from here its a letter from embassy - no your wrong you only need to have transferred 400k initially from abroad to get your first visa if your properly married and then make sure you have at least that every year

Edited by Admin2

I cannot quite work out the thread of these replies, so apologies if I have missed the discussion here.

I am no expert, but I am currently applying for my renewal of my so called 'marriage' visa and

you are right to say that those of us who had this visa before October 1st and are just RENEWING,

can still show the 400k baht in the bank instead of monthly income. Its only new applications after 1st October this year that are requiring the monthly income route and cannot just show 400k baht. I will be able to show 400k baht in a bank account next year as well, new applicants will not. Yes I know these rules may change, but that is the state of play today.

Just to confuse the issue, I read somewhere in this forum, that Phuket is still accepting 400k baht in a savings account only. The guy who posted this was told to keep quiet by some other expat in Phuket - its their little secret it appears!!??

Hope you sort out your problem.

[Mobi]

Hi Sunbelt,

After 32 pages, this old fart is still confused.

This issue does not affect me, but it may affect my daughter if she decides to come and stay with me for a year.

Can you confirm that your understanding of the new rules, is that by using a combination of tourist visas at external emabassies and/or visa runs that in theory it is possible to stay in Thailand indefinitely.(not counting the time spent out of Thailand obtaining a new visa) e.g. a 60 + 30 tourist visa, then 3 x 30 day visa runs, then a new 60 + 30 visa, and so on?

Thanks in advance for humouring a senior citizen

[Fanta]

Thanks for all the help guys!

I do realize this is all too new being only one week into the new system to see how things will really play out once people start to test out or 'dip their toes in' the whole visa limits/visa runs/etc. only time will unwrap the individual stories...

Sunbelt! Great stuff as usual and also thanks firefan.

I think I am confused and confused you on one of my quotes:

QUOTE -FANTA

* Next thing that is unclear is the reality and truth of if Tourist Visa days also count as total days(90days)?

QUOTE - SUNBELT

As of now, it is days.

This confuses me?? I ment that does the 60+30day Tourist Visa days count towards total day allowance in Thailand- being 90 days in a six month period?? But I guess that you later clarified saying that only VOA days (or what you are calling 'visa exemption stamp') are the days that count towards this 90 day limit?? I am still confused? This here tells me I can't stay the entire 5months? only 90 days period!.. but later in the post you say it is ok (see quote below)??? I am still confused.

QUOTE - FANTA

Ultimatley I need 5 months in Thailand in this trip (although I might take 3-4wks in Cambodia) That means I use my 90day Tourist Visa first. Then I will still need 1 or 2 VOA's gotten from Cambodian border check points for like February and/or March 2007. *Finally the big question: Will they give me these 2 VOA's after I already had 90 days straight in Thailand by way of a Tourist Visa? I have read all the info but I am still confused as if REALLY is the 90day limit allowed by way of VOA's or is it just 90days period! in a 6 month period??!?

QUOTE - SUNBELT

Yes, you should be allowed by the rules, two more tourist visa exemption stamps.

Can you clarify the wording, meanings, etc. please??

Thanks so much for all the help. Greatly appreciated!

Fanta.