Schengen Visa - do I really need one ?

[Jip99]

Planning on taking my partner for her 3rd UK visit visa.

As part of the trip I want to take her to Rome.

I have read the pinned notes on Schengen visas and would welcome some practical advice from those who have experience in these.

I can evidence a relationship 'akin to marriage' and, as I see it, I should be able to take her under the 'freedom of movement' rules.

However, I don't to get to Gatwick and have the airline reject her - or Italian immigration in Rome.

[mark131v]

I stand by to be corrected but I cannot imagine UK Border will allow her access to go to Europe

If she flies and is refused entry the airline picks up the tab so allowing her to fly I would have thought would be impossible

If she arrives in Italy or anywhere else in Europe she should need to show her passport if she does without the correct visa then she is illegally entering the country and open to prosecution, really not worth the risk and there are plenty things to do in the UK

[7by7]

To enter the Schengen area without a visa a non EEA national needs to satisfy immigration that she is

• a qualifying family member of an EEA, but in this case not Italian, national;
• travelling with or to join that EEA national family member.

See Arriving at the border without an entry visa on Travel documents for non-EU family members.

As you will be travelling with her, the second point will be easy. But the big question is whether the Italians will deem her to be your qualifying family member!

The rules on unmarried partners vary from state to state; for the UK you would need to provide evidence to show that you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the previous two years. I don't know what the Italians require; suggest you contact the Italian embassy and ask.

In addition, as mark131v says above; if she tries to travel to Italy without a Schengen visa she may not even get out of the UK!

Nothing to do with UK immigration; it's not up to them to decide if someone leaving the UK meets the entry requirements for their destination.

But, as he says, the airline may refuse to carry her if she does not have a visa. If they knowingly carry a passenger who does not have the correct entry clearance for their destination and that passenger is refused entry, then not only does the airline have to bear the cost of returning the passenger to their departure point, but they are also subject to a fine of (IIRC) $10,000.

My advice; get her a Schengen visa.

If you can satisfy the Italians that she is your qualifying family member then she can apply for this in London or Bangkok, most of the requirements wont apply and it will be free.

If the Italians don't accept her as your qualifying family member then she will have to apply in Bangkok, meet all the requirements and pay for it.

[Jip99]

To enter the Schengen area without a visa a non EEA national needs to satisfy immigration that she is

• a qualifying family member of an EEA, but in this case not Italian, national;
• travelling with or to join that EEA national family member.

See Arriving at the border without an entry visa on Travel documents for non-EU family members.

As you will be travelling with her, the second point will be easy. But the big question is whether the Italians will deem her to be your qualifying family member!

The rules on unmarried partners vary from state to state; for the UK you would need to provide evidence to show that you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the previous two years. I don't know what the Italians require; suggest you contact the Italian embassy and ask.

In addition, as mark131v says above; if she tries to travel to Italy without a Schengen visa she may not even get out of the UK!

Nothing to do with UK immigration; it's not up to them to decide if someone leaving the UK meets the entry requirements for their destination.

But, as he says, the airline may refuse to carry her if she does not have a visa. If they knowingly carry a passenger who does not have the correct entry clearance for their destination and that passenger is refused entry, then not only does the airline have to bear the cost of returning the passenger to their departure point, but they are also subject to a fine of (IIRC) $10,000.

My advice; get her a Schengen visa.

If you can satisfy the Italians that she is your qualifying family member then she can apply for this in London or Bangkok, most of the requirements wont apply and it will be free.

If the Italians don't accept her as your qualifying family member then she will have to apply in Bangkok, meet all the requirements and pay for it.

Thank you for that 7x7 and for the link.

I just want to labour the point because I think mark131v has missed it, and I want a clear picture (for everyone's benefit) of the practical position. I accept your advice about getting the Schengen visa, but....

I am an EEA national. My Thai partner and I have been together for almost 10 years and this will be her 3rd UK visa. The British authorities have therefore accepted the genuineness of the relationship and should satisfy "If you live together with a partner in a stable and continuous way, you have certain EU-wide rights, even if you have not registered your partnership with any authority".

We could, of course, spend 40 Baht to get married and being my spouse it would eliminate any doubt.

The question is therefore back to my original post - how can I be sure that I satisfy Easyjet staff (UK immigration do not come into it) and/or Italian immigration ?

Does anybody have practical experience of this ?

Of course, it is easy to take the safe line and pay for a Schengen visa in Bangkok - but EUR 60 pays for a decent meal.

I am interested in 7x7's comments about satisfying the Italians regarding 'qualifying family member'. Can you advise on the procedure for doing this - is it a standard part of the Schengen visa application process ?

(Note: London is not an option for visiting the Italian embassy as our trip to Rome is shortly after arrival in the UK).

Thanks again for your advice.

[mark131v]

Hi Jip, your right I had missed the point with some of that but I do have a lot of experience with airlines across the world through working offshore and know they are hard work, if you are missing any piece of paper required to fly or enter a country they simply wont fly you

I have a feeling the low cost carriers would be even worse in this respect as they are very price conscious so if there is even the remote possibility that they may be fined or have to fly somebody back for free it would be a none starter, good luck anyhow!

[Donutz]

I would get her a visa from the Italian embassy in BKK and inquire if she falls under the EU/EEA family member rules (what is the Italians stand on a "relation akin to marriage"?)

See what the Italians say and if the answer seems unfair contact Solvit for their feedback and possible share your experience with EU Home Affairs (though that would not help you directly but may help with the EU talks on changing the Schengen rules -currently ongoing- or -if it ever comed to it- a revision on the Freedom of Movemrnt directive. )

Getting onboard an plane to Italy will be difficult if you would be married (see the "arriving without visa" link from 7by7's excellent post), unmarried you would not have a chanche.

[7by7]

I am interested in 7x7's comments about satisfying the Italians regarding 'qualifying family member'. Can you advise on the procedure for doing this - is it a standard part of the Schengen visa application process ?

If applying for a Schengen visa, or any other visa for an EEA country, as a qualifying family member of an EEA national under the directive you have to satisfy the issuing authority, in this case Italy, that you are a qualifying family member.

For a spouse this is simple; the marriage certificate, with acceptable translation if in a non EEA language, is sufficient. (For a Thai marriage certificate, the Schengen states want the translation certified by the Thai MFA.)

For an unmarried partner it's more complicated. As said previously, each country has it's own definition of an unmarried partner and what evidence is required to demonstrate the relationship.

“other” family members who are beneficiaries (note this is a commercial site, but does explain it nice and simply)

Who can be a beneficiary of Directive 2004/38/EC is worth breaking up and looking at in more detail, category by category:

2( b ) the partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested

This category covers all other long term “durable” partnerships, including both opposite-sex and same-sex relationships. There is no official definition of how long the relationship must have existed. Some countries expect to see two years of living together, but if you have a child with somebody and live with them it would clearly be incompatible with the Directive to require two years of relationship history. When a member-state does not recognize civil partnerships as equivalent to marriage, this is the category which is used for entry

As suggested above, you should contact the Italian embassy to see what their definition of a 'durable relationship' is and what evidence they require.