Selling a Condo - Resale Market Status.

[huawei]

It is a very illiquid asset and the gain is made on purchase ( good price) not on sale. There are also significant costs involved on sale. The exchange rate is another factor I use when thinking of buying.

[trogers]

It is a very illiquid asset and the gain is made on purchase ( good price) not on sale. There are also significant costs involved on sale. The exchange rate is another factor I use when thinking of buying.

The time horizon for investment would have to be long due to the illiquidity of this class of asset.

I started investing at age 50, and planned to cash out gradually from 65 onwards.

[Fairynuff]

Why on earth would you want to live in Bangkok, let alone buy there? The plughole of Thailand, just Google "floods in Thailand".

Because he wants to and you don't

[newnative]

If the condo is a short walk to one of the popular subway stations you should do ok. If buying to rent it, Bangkok condos tend to be pricier than Pattaya's but the rental prices they command tend to be lower. Your 3.5MB condo in BKK will likely command a rental of around 18,000-22,000 Baht give or take. That's around the range I see when I check websites. Always exceptions, of course! In contrast, I have 1 condo that I bought in June for 1MB in Pattaya and have it rented for 10,000 Baht a month for a year. A second condo I bought recently for 2.3MB is rented for 22,500 Baht on a 9 month contract. Tattoos aren't my thing but if anyone has to get one it should say: LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION.

[huawei]

It is a very illiquid asset and the gain is made on purchase ( good price) not on sale. There are also significant costs involved on sale. The exchange rate is another factor I use when thinking of buying.

The time horizon for investment would have to be long due to the illiquidity of this class of asset.

I started investing at age 50, and planned to cash out gradually from 65 onwards.

And I am sure you were studying the market years before. Thailand is a strange place to invest without knowing particular areas, particular condos in those areas etc..I am referring to Bangkok.

When I started to look at real estate in the late 80's the areas I was looking at Sulkumvit 43-55 were as expensive then as some property in decent parts of London. I decided to invest in London first because that's what I knew. When the Asian crisis came the ball game changed but even then it was hard to find fire sales around the area I was looking. Auctions were interesting but all seemed to be bought up by Chinese Thais..eventually the market started moving around 2001 , bought then. No new stock around until 2004/5.Went to buy a condo at the hamptons - didn't rush because real estate had been very subdued .. It sold out at 70k plus within a day..I was shocked that it sold out and also the price..clearly pent up demand. Today they are building at 200k per sq. meter, again as expensive as what I could buy in London.

My take from this is that Thai property in certain areas has always been comparatively expensive except for those golden years where property didn't actually significantly fall in value but the exchange rate of 45 to the dollar and around 70 sterling was where the value was. It was out of equilibrium for maybe 6 years.

Of course outside Bangkok is a different issue.

Finally don't believe in crashes here...

[trogers]

If the condo is a short walk to one of the popular subway stations you should do ok. If buying to rent it, Bangkok condos tend to be pricier than Pattaya's but the rental prices they command tend to be lower. Your 3.5MB condo in BKK will likely command a rental of around 18,000-22,000 Baht give or take. That's around the range I see when I check websites. Always exceptions, of course! In contrast, I have 1 condo that I bought in June for 1MB in Pattaya and have it rented for 10,000 Baht a month for a year. A second condo I bought recently for 2.3MB is rented for 22,500 Baht on a 9 month contract. Tattoos aren't my thing but if anyone has to get one it should say: LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION.

I doubt a 30+ sqm pseudo 1-bedroom unit can get more than Bt15k.

[trogers]

It is a very illiquid asset and the gain is made on purchase ( good price) not on sale. There are also significant costs involved on sale. The exchange rate is another factor I use when thinking of buying.

The time horizon for investment would have to be long due to the illiquidity of this class of asset.

I started investing at age 50, and planned to cash out gradually from 65 onwards.

And I am sure you were studying the market years before. Thailand is a strange place to invest without knowing particular areas, particular condos in those areas etc..I am referring to Bangkok.

When I started to look at real estate in the late 80's the areas I was looking at Sulkumvit 43-55 were as expensive then as some property in decent parts of London. I decided to invest in London first because that's what I knew. When the Asian crisis came the ball game changed but even then it was hard to find fire sales around the area I was looking. Auctions were interesting but all seemed to be bought up by Chinese Thais..eventually the market started moving around 2001 , bought then. No new stock around until 2004/5.Went to buy a condo at the hamptons - didn't rush because real estate had been very subdued .. It sold out at 70k plus within a day..I was shocked that it sold out and also the price..clearly pent up demand. Today they are building at 200k per sq. meter, again as expensive as what I could buy in London.

My take from this is that Thai property in certain areas has always been comparatively expensive except for those golden years where property didn't actually significantly fall in value but the exchange rate of 45 to the dollar and around 70 sterling was where the value was. It was out of equilibrium for maybe 6 years.

Of course outside Bangkok is a different issue.

Finally don't believe in crashes here...

Properties did fall in price in real terms during the Asian financial crisis when Baht prices froze while the currency fell in value.

The reason why Baht prices did not fall is that majority bought in cash and not through debts for the class of condo units in this location.

The Asian financial crisis was primarily limited to corporate failures and the stock market.

[Jacks77]

Great post and very helpful replies from everyone. I also noticed the yield in Pattaya is higher than in BKK. I honestly dont like pattaya but buying real estate there for rental income is more viable than BKK.

How much below the estimate the properties are sold by the LED Dept at auction on average? Anyone knows?

[trogers]

Great post and very helpful replies from everyone. I also noticed the yield in Pattaya is higher than in BKK. I honestly dont like pattaya but buying real estate there for rental income is more viable than BKK.

How much below the estimate the properties are sold by the LED Dept at auction on average? Anyone knows?

Look not only at rental yield, but also at annual total and periods of vacancy.

Having long term tenants means less vacant periods and broker commission. Holiday rentals usually have neither.

Bid prices in LED depends on location and how hot demand would be. I won my bid at Bt47k/sqm while the price I bought my first unit in the same building was Bt50k/sqm.

Edited October 26, 2015 by trogers

[hhgz]

I sold my first BKK condo in September, 2014, and was very pleased. TVers posted that the real estate market was going to crash on August 29, 2014, and it didn't happen. I bought the condo for 155K USD, and sold it for 275K THD. It took about a week to find a buyer. When I sold, the building was 18 years old and, according to the Tver experts, no one buys a used condo.

Edited October 26, 2015 by hhgz

[KittenKong]

I sold my first BKK condo in September, 2014, and was very pleased. TVers posted that the real estate market was going to crash on August 29, 2014, and it didn't happen. I bought the condo for 155K USD, and sold it for 275K THD. It took about a week to find a buyer. When I sold, the building was 18 years old and, according to the Tver experts, no one buys a used condo.

I suspect that in Thailand for every person who sells a condo at a profit there are ten who dont, or who cant sell at all.

[JMWPACIFIC]

My philosophy in buying real estate here is "once you're in, you're in for good". Thais like new and "used" real estate is most times difficult to sell. The market here is not as dynamic as it is in the States and most Western countries.

That said I bought an off plan condo in BKK in 2006 and sold to a friend & neighbor fully furnished in 2012 for an 80% NNN profit. Bought a new build 400 Sq M house in Chonburi in 2007---paid 9.5 million and put in another 4.5 million in built ins, landscaping, furnishings, etc. Sold in 2012 after 1 week on the market to a neighbor ("as is" fully furnished" for 15 million in 2012. Mind you, both places were extremely attractive, beautifically decorated and had perfect locations.

If you are buying, buy the absolute best location as you can. Depending on market conditions, you may eke out a profit. In the meantime, consider the money "sunk".

[trogers]

My philosophy in buying real estate here is "once you're in, you're in for good". Thais like new and "used" real estate is most times difficult to sell. The market here is not as dynamic as it is in the States and most Western countries.

That said I bought an off plan condo in BKK in 2006 and sold to a friend & neighbor fully furnished in 2012 for an 80% NNN profit. Bought a new build 400 Sq M house in Chonburi in 2007---paid 9.5 million and put in another 4.5 million in built ins, landscaping, furnishings, etc. Sold in 2012 after 1 week on the market to a neighbor ("as is" fully furnished" for 15 million in 2012. Mind you, both places were extremely attractive, beautifically decorated and had perfect locations.

If you are buying, buy the absolute best location as you can. Depending on market conditions, you may eke out a profit. In the meantime, consider the money "sunk".

When your got the correct location, you don't need to sell. Buyers come knocking...

[cape]

We are talking here about investing in property for income.

My understanding - please correct or comment:

As to purchase and resale.

Flats are sold by the square metre (not number of rooms). Price varies by location with higher prices and more desirable locations holding better their value than lower. The land registry does not provide reliable market values. Second hand gives greater yields. Expect 25% discount if you negotiate correctly. There are large buy/sell transaction costs and spread. Property is illiquid asset. Rehabilitation could be a business. There's not much expectation of capital gain in buy to let. Buying at auction could be a good deal. A simpler exit strategy could be to buy in your children's names if you trust them to hand over the rent.

As to letting.

Count of net income of 10 months a year to cover voids and expenses. Keep in personal touch with the tenant to reduce prospect of moon light flits / damage repairs. Don't let tenants be a nuisance to neighbours. Keep on top of repairs and preventive maintenance. Expect 10-year gov bond yield plus X %. Look for farang as they give greater X yield.

Edited October 27, 2015 by cape

[blackcab]

It is a very illiquid asset and the gain is made on purchase ( good price) not on sale. There are also significant costs involved on sale. The exchange rate is another factor I use when thinking of buying.

The time horizon for investment would have to be long due to the illiquidity of this class of asset.

I started investing at age 50, and planned to cash out gradually from 65 onwards.

And I am sure you were studying the market years before. Thailand is a strange place to invest without knowing particular areas, particular condos in those areas etc..I am referring to Bangkok.

When I started to look at real estate in the late 80's the areas I was looking at Sulkumvit 43-55 were as expensive then as some property in decent parts of London. I decided to invest in London first because that's what I knew. When the Asian crisis came the ball game changed but even then it was hard to find fire sales around the area I was looking. Auctions were interesting but all seemed to be bought up by Chinese Thais..eventually the market started moving around 2001 , bought then. No new stock around until 2004/5.Went to buy a condo at the hamptons - didn't rush because real estate had been very subdued .. It sold out at 70k plus within a day..I was shocked that it sold out and also the price..clearly pent up demand. Today they are building at 200k per sq. meter, again as expensive as what I could buy in London.

My take from this is that Thai property in certain areas has always been comparatively expensive except for those golden years where property didn't actually significantly fall in value but the exchange rate of 45 to the dollar and around 70 sterling was where the value was. It was out of equilibrium for maybe 6 years.

Of course outside Bangkok is a different issue.

Finally don't believe in crashes here...

On Sukhumvit soi 39 it's 300k per square meter - and the developer sold out fast.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I will tell you one thing.

I love Bangkok condos.

Yes.... even the 30sqm ones.

Love how they arrange the shoeboxes and love the amenities in the buildings.

The problem with Bangkok condos is the maintenance. It just doesn't exist.

So, in 5 years you will be living in a ghetto. However, it is still possible that your condo will go up in price due to location.

Personally, I will keep my condo in Toronto and will not buy in Bangkok. The reasons are as follows.

1. Poor maintenance. Go around Bangkok and check some "Hi-So" condos that are 5 years and older.

2. Very uncertain future (floods, regime, and political situation in general)

3. Crappy exchange rate to a Canadian dollar.

Now.... if you are piled on to US currency, this could actually be a good time to buy. I think US is overvalued compared to every major currency and will be due for a correction. 10% drop in currency is only 32 baht for a US dollar. Winning!

[theguyfromanotherforum]

It is a very illiquid asset and the gain is made on purchase ( good price) not on sale. There are also significant costs involved on sale. The exchange rate is another factor I use when thinking of buying.

The time horizon for investment would have to be long due to the illiquidity of this class of asset.

I started investing at age 50, and planned to cash out gradually from 65 onwards.

And I am sure you were studying the market years before. Thailand is a strange place to invest without knowing particular areas, particular condos in those areas etc..I am referring to Bangkok.

When I started to look at real estate in the late 80's the areas I was looking at Sulkumvit 43-55 were as expensive then as some property in decent parts of London. I decided to invest in London first because that's what I knew. When the Asian crisis came the ball game changed but even then it was hard to find fire sales around the area I was looking. Auctions were interesting but all seemed to be bought up by Chinese Thais..eventually the market started moving around 2001 , bought then. No new stock around until 2004/5.Went to buy a condo at the hamptons - didn't rush because real estate had been very subdued .. It sold out at 70k plus within a day..I was shocked that it sold out and also the price..clearly pent up demand. Today they are building at 200k per sq. meter, again as expensive as what I could buy in London.

My take from this is that Thai property in certain areas has always been comparatively expensive except for those golden years where property didn't actually significantly fall in value but the exchange rate of 45 to the dollar and around 70 sterling was where the value was. It was out of equilibrium for maybe 6 years.

Of course outside Bangkok is a different issue.

Finally don't believe in crashes here...

On Sukhumvit soi 39 it's 300k per square meter - and the developer sold out fast.

Ridiculous. This is a price of square meter in Gangnam and just a tad below Manhattan.

As they say.... there is a fool born every minute.

[trogers]

It is a very illiquid asset and the gain is made on purchase ( good price) not on sale. There are also significant costs involved on sale. The exchange rate is another factor I use when thinking of buying.

The time horizon for investment would have to be long due to the illiquidity of this class of asset.

I started investing at age 50, and planned to cash out gradually from 65 onwards.

And I am sure you were studying the market years before. Thailand is a strange place to invest without knowing particular areas, particular condos in those areas etc..I am referring to Bangkok.

When I started to look at real estate in the late 80's the areas I was looking at Sulkumvit 43-55 were as expensive then as some property in decent parts of London. I decided to invest in London first because that's what I knew. When the Asian crisis came the ball game changed but even then it was hard to find fire sales around the area I was looking. Auctions were interesting but all seemed to be bought up by Chinese Thais..eventually the market started moving around 2001 , bought then. No new stock around until 2004/5.Went to buy a condo at the hamptons - didn't rush because real estate had been very subdued .. It sold out at 70k plus within a day..I was shocked that it sold out and also the price..clearly pent up demand. Today they are building at 200k per sq. meter, again as expensive as what I could buy in London.

My take from this is that Thai property in certain areas has always been comparatively expensive except for those golden years where property didn't actually significantly fall in value but the exchange rate of 45 to the dollar and around 70 sterling was where the value was. It was out of equilibrium for maybe 6 years.

Of course outside Bangkok is a different issue.

Finally don't believe in crashes here...

On Sukhumvit soi 39 it's 300k per square meter - and the developer sold out fast.

Ridiculous. This is a price of square meter in Gangnam and just a tad below Manhattan.

As they say.... there is a fool born every minute.

The gold bubble has burst. It is now the bubble for 6-star properties...?

[huawei]

The biggest mistake is to sell in your own country and buy here, if that's the only property you have.

[huawei]

It is a very illiquid asset and the gain is made on purchase ( good price) not on sale. There are also significant costs involved on sale. The exchange rate is another factor I use when thinking of buying.

The time horizon for investment would have to be long due to the illiquidity of this class of asset.

I started investing at age 50, and planned to cash out gradually from 65 onwards.

And I am sure you were studying the market years before. Thailand is a strange place to invest without knowing particular areas, particular condos in those areas etc..I am referring to Bangkok.

When I started to look at real estate in the late 80's the areas I was looking at Sulkumvit 43-55 were as expensive then as some property in decent parts of London. I decided to invest in London first because that's what I knew. When the Asian crisis came the ball game changed but even then it was hard to find fire sales around the area I was looking. Auctions were interesting but all seemed to be bought up by Chinese Thais..eventually the market started moving around 2001 , bought then. No new stock around until 2004/5.Went to buy a condo at the hamptons - didn't rush because real estate had been very subdued .. It sold out at 70k plus within a day..I was shocked that it sold out and also the price..clearly pent up demand. Today they are building at 200k per sq. meter, again as expensive as what I could buy in London.

My take from this is that Thai property in certain areas has always been comparatively expensive except for those golden years where property didn't actually significantly fall in value but the exchange rate of 45 to the dollar and around 70 sterling was where the value was. It was out of equilibrium for maybe 6 years.

Of course outside Bangkok is a different issue.

Finally don't believe in crashes here...

On Sukhumvit soi 39 it's 300k per square meter - and the developer sold out fast.

The diplomat ..

[trogers]

It is a very illiquid asset and the gain is made on purchase ( good price) not on sale. There are also significant costs involved on sale. The exchange rate is another factor I use when thinking of buying.

The time horizon for investment would have to be long due to the illiquidity of this class of asset.

I started investing at age 50, and planned to cash out gradually from 65 onwards.

And I am sure you were studying the market years before. Thailand is a strange place to invest without knowing particular areas, particular condos in those areas etc..I am referring to Bangkok.

When I started to look at real estate in the late 80's the areas I was looking at Sulkumvit 43-55 were as expensive then as some property in decent parts of London. I decided to invest in London first because that's what I knew. When the Asian crisis came the ball game changed but even then it was hard to find fire sales around the area I was looking. Auctions were interesting but all seemed to be bought up by Chinese Thais..eventually the market started moving around 2001 , bought then. No new stock around until 2004/5.Went to buy a condo at the hamptons - didn't rush because real estate had been very subdued .. It sold out at 70k plus within a day..I was shocked that it sold out and also the price..clearly pent up demand. Today they are building at 200k per sq. meter, again as expensive as what I could buy in London.

My take from this is that Thai property in certain areas has always been comparatively expensive except for those golden years where property didn't actually significantly fall in value but the exchange rate of 45 to the dollar and around 70 sterling was where the value was. It was out of equilibrium for maybe 6 years.

Of course outside Bangkok is a different issue.

Finally don't believe in crashes here...

On Sukhumvit soi 39 it's 300k per square meter - and the developer sold out fast.

The diplomat ..

Naahh...each director of the development company booked a floor!

Been there and had seen it done...

[blackcab]

It is a very illiquid asset and the gain is made on purchase ( good price) not on sale. There are also significant costs involved on sale. The exchange rate is another factor I use when thinking of buying.

The time horizon for investment would have to be long due to the illiquidity of this class of asset.

I started investing at age 50, and planned to cash out gradually from 65 onwards.

And I am sure you were studying the market years before. Thailand is a strange place to invest without knowing particular areas, particular condos in those areas etc..I am referring to Bangkok.

When I started to look at real estate in the late 80's the areas I was looking at Sulkumvit 43-55 were as expensive then as some property in decent parts of London. I decided to invest in London first because that's what I knew. When the Asian crisis came the ball game changed but even then it was hard to find fire sales around the area I was looking. Auctions were interesting but all seemed to be bought up by Chinese Thais..eventually the market started moving around 2001 , bought then. No new stock around until 2004/5.Went to buy a condo at the hamptons - didn't rush because real estate had been very subdued .. It sold out at 70k plus within a day..I was shocked that it sold out and also the price..clearly pent up demand. Today they are building at 200k per sq. meter, again as expensive as what I could buy in London.

My take from this is that Thai property in certain areas has always been comparatively expensive except for those golden years where property didn't actually significantly fall in value but the exchange rate of 45 to the dollar and around 70 sterling was where the value was. It was out of equilibrium for maybe 6 years.

Of course outside Bangkok is a different issue.

Finally don't believe in crashes here...

On Sukhumvit soi 39 it's 300k per square meter - and the developer sold out fast.

The diplomat ..

Naahh...each director of the development company booked a floor!

Been there and had seen it done...

The family behind the Diplomat don't need to. They are one of the top 20 richest families in Thailand.

[Globalist]

Make sure that the condo is located at most 200 metres from a BTS or MRT station.

If that means you can't afford a condo in Bangkok, then invest elesewhere.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Make sure that the condo is located at most 200 metres from a BTS or MRT station.

If that means you can't afford a condo in Bangkok, then invest elesewhere.

Why? Some of the best condos are located nowhere near the sky train or subway.

[cape]

Some of the best condos are located by the sea, but people live in be to work mainly and being near a station ensures at least a large population for offers to rent or buy

[trogers]

Make sure that the condo is located at most 200 metres from a BTS or MRT station.

If that means you can't afford a condo in Bangkok, then invest elesewhere.

Why? Some of the best condos are located nowhere near the sky train or subway.

Those with chauffeured limousines do not need the train.

[Straight8]

One can always sell. It's just the price. What you have to ask yourself is, 'At what point is this moment on the property cycle?'

Would you be buying high and selling low, or vice versa?

Trogers do you have past experience in selling a condo in Bangkok?

The past is no representation of the future.

You may get more, less, or breakeven when you come to sell in the future. You will get whatever the market gives you.

It's really that simple, but at a guess I'd say Thailand is not the place you should be buying if you are already asking this question.

Seems you want to hear people tell you that in the future your condo will sell for more than you paid for it, and that's just pure guessing.

[Straight8]

Why on earth would you want to live in Bangkok, let alone buy there? The plughole of Thailand, just Google "floods in Thailand".

I started asking myself that question long ago and why on earth would anyone in their right mind pay 16mill baht for a 3 bedroom condo in BKK ??

I'm sure there are worse cities but BKK has certain very limited appeal, but as for buying overpriced property and settling down here, it is just one ugly, stinky, traffic riddle and poluted, no way!!

[trogers]

Why on earth would you want to live in Bangkok, let alone buy there? The plughole of Thailand, just Google "floods in Thailand".

I started asking myself that question long ago and why on earth would anyone in their right mind pay 16mill baht for a 3 bedroom condo in BKK ??

I'm sure there are worse cities but BKK has certain very limited appeal, but as for buying overpriced property and settling down here, it is just one ugly, stinky, traffic riddle and poluted, no way!!

Probably because Bt16m would only get you a studio unit in your own capital city?

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Why on earth would you want to live in Bangkok, let alone buy there? The plughole of Thailand, just Google "floods in Thailand".

I started asking myself that question long ago and why on earth would anyone in their right mind pay 16mill baht for a 3 bedroom condo in BKK ??

I'm sure there are worse cities but BKK has certain very limited appeal, but as for buying overpriced property and settling down here, it is just one ugly, stinky, traffic riddle and poluted, no way!!

Probably because Bt16m would only get you a studio unit in your own capital city?

Nonsense. A 2 bedroom unit in Toronto downtown (one of the most expensive markets in North America) goes for 12 million baht or less. For that money you get solid construction, prime downtown location and around 90 square meters in a building with all the bells and whistles.