Russian airliner crashes in central Sinai - Egyptian PM

[F4UCorsair]

Two interesting points just came on SkyNews

1) Fuselage is broken in two, so indicates a controlled "landing" of sorts.

2) Speculation of some survivors - voices heard from inside the fuselage....

So far for

The passenger plane that crashed in Egypt's Sinai on Saturday was completely destroyed and most of those on board are likely to have died, an Egyptian security officer who had recently arrived at the scene told Reuters.

And how do you attempt a controlled landing with a plane that dives at almost 2000 m/sec?

How does anything dive at 2000m/sec or 7,200 kilometres an hour?

Unless it is rocket powered and pointing vertically down to start with.

Possibly 200m/s at a stretch.

I think someone has the wrong velocities figured out.

Way out. I'd say a lot more than 200 metres/sec (720 km/hr - normal cruise is 850+) but a LOT less than 2000 metres/sec (7200 km/hr)

[Mudcrab]

Dosent matter if the location is remote the technology for weapons is way to ahead of its time.

Oh dear..have you been watching the Back to Future marathon while the model has been working?

I think the technology has been proven many times....the latest most notable case in the downing of the Malaysian jet over the Ukraine.

Maybe if you stayed conscious, while the 30 year old Thai model was working from time to time, and came up for air from your exotic love nest you might see hear the news occasionally.

[phazey]

FWIW, here's the video.... http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee4_1446300521

Edited October 31, 2015 by phazey

[connda]

BBC website says "Militants linked to Islamic State say they brought down the Airbus A-321, but Russia has dismissed this claim"

How can Russia dismiss this so soon?

Stealth Payback Russian Style? Taking care of business in-house.

Edited October 31, 2015 by connda

[TheCruncher]

Two interesting points just came on SkyNews

1) Fuselage is broken in two, so indicates a controlled "landing" of sorts.

2) Speculation of some survivors - voices heard from inside the fuselage....

So far for

The passenger plane that crashed in Egypt's Sinai on Saturday was completely destroyed and most of those on board are likely to have died, an Egyptian security officer who had recently arrived at the scene told Reuters.

And how do you attempt a controlled landing with a plane that dives at almost 2000 m/sec?

How does anything dive at 2000m/sec or 7,200 kilometres an hour?

Unless it is rocket powered and pointing vertically down to start with.

Possibly 200m/s at a stretch.

I think someone has the wrong velocities figured out.

I'm not a aviation specialist, I only parrot what the specialists said in post #19

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/867156-russian-airliner-crashes-in-central-sinai-egyptian-pm/?p=10025341

Why don't you ask them?

Edited October 31, 2015 by TheCruncher

[F4UCorsair]

^^ If the map is correct, it went down a long way away from Syria. The people with weapons in that area would be Egyptians, Israelis, Palestinians or the local ISIS sympathizers.

Of course, it could just be an accident, it's really too early to speculate

Never to early to speculate.

Avoid speculation once the facts are known.

Do you mean 'UNTIL the facts are known'??

[silent]

BBC website says "Militants linked to Islamic State say they brought down the Airbus A-321, but Russia has dismissed this claim"

How can Russia dismiss this so soon?

Because it would mean accepting something that's very hard for anybody to and at best not in normal human nature. So until the evidence is reported it's impossible to put the right plausible spin on it if it was shut down. For now denial is the best and only tactic.

Edited October 31, 2015 by silent

[Tywais]

Two major airlines, Lufthansa and Air France, have decided to avoid flying over the Sinai Peninsula until they get a clear explanation of what caused Saturday's crash in the area, Reuters reports.

"We took the decision to avoid the area because the situation and the reasons for the crash were not clear," a Lufthansa spokeswoman is quoted by the news agency as saying.

bbc

[phazey]

Edited October 31, 2015 by phazey

[balo]

I wonder if it was shot down ? If proven Russia could fight back IS in this area. This could escalate .

[tropo]

Two interesting points just came on SkyNews

1) Fuselage is broken in two, so indicates a controlled "landing" of sorts.

2) Speculation of some survivors - voices heard from inside the fuselage....

So far for

The passenger plane that crashed in Egypt's Sinai on Saturday was completely destroyed and most of those on board are likely to have died, an Egyptian security officer who had recently arrived at the scene told Reuters.

And how do you attempt a controlled landing with a plane that dives at almost 2000 m/sec?

How does anything dive at 2000m/sec or 7,200 kilometres an hour?

Unless it is rocket powered and pointing vertically down to start with.

Possibly 200m/s at a stretch.

I think someone has the wrong velocities figured out.

Of course that is wrong. Terminal velocity of a human body is only about 56 m/s.

Change that to meters per minute and you'll end up with realistic speeds.

eg. 2000 m/minute = 33.33 m/sec = 120 km/h

[JHolmesJr]

Tough situation for the russkies....how to admit their plane was blown up when they stand accused of perpetrating the same ghastly act in ukraine?

And what isis are they going to wipe out....its a continually shapeshifting organisation...

[arfurcrown]

There is mention that the fated aircraft suffered tail damage as a result of a ground mishap in 2001.If this was the case there could well have been a major fuselage component damage scenario.

No tail or only part of a tail section would account for the rapid descent .

Possibly it was in a part tail component failure which may account for the presumed belly flop landing attempted by the pilot and his cockpit crew.

Ff the black box is recovered( which I think as actually happened) then perhaps there may be enough evidence to actually pinpoint the cause of this disaster until then we can but only speculate as to the circumstances involved

[metisdead]

Posts replying to previously removed off topic baiting posts have been removed.

[HenryB]

A Great British Newspaper Control by the Queen of England has a Headlines it was shoot down by ISIS but yet I was made fun of by reporting this.

I guess many do want to admit there is a new World War going on Muslims against all overs Yes even Gays

Edited November 1, 2015 by HenryB

[HenryB]

Islamic State planning mass attack on Britain, warns head of MI5 So what is so hard too shoot down a plane fly so near to you?

Edited November 1, 2015 by HenryB

[Tywais]

[slipperylobster]

I would love to see Russia and the USA working hand in hand. When I look at the old movies, and how russia had to fight the crazy germans.....I have nothing but respect. Even as I grew up in upstate New York, I had friends who would invite me to their small apartments, and there would be these kindly people with a bit of potato and sausage ...and would sit me down at their table. This being after dark, and after a long, cold day playing in several feet of snow in sub zero temperatures. I would walk up a steep set of stairs, and enter a tiny apartment with one wooden table. I think it is workable...and "things" would be sorted out.

Edited November 1, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Officials search for cause of plane crash over Egypt's Sinai

BRIAN ROHAN, Associated Press

HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press

SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt (AP) — A Russian passenger airliner crashed Saturday in a remote mountainous part of Egypt's Sinai Peninsula 23 minutes after taking off from a popular Red Sea resort, killing all 224 people on board, including 25 children.

The cause of the crash was not known, but two major European airlines announced they would stop flying over the area for safety reasons after a local affiliate of the extremist Islamic State group claimed it "brought down" the aircraft. Russia's transport minister dismissed that claim as not credible.

Almost everyone on board the Airbus-A321-200 operated by the Moscow-based Metrojet airline was Russian; Ukraine said four of its citizens were passengers. Russian officials did not give a specific breakdown of the 217 passengers' ages and genders, but said 25 were children. There were seven crew members.

A civil aviation ministry statement said the plane's wreckage was found in the Hassana area some 70 kilometers (44 miles) south of the city of el-Arish, in the general area of northern Sinai where Egyptian security forces have for years battled local Islamic militants who in recent months claimed allegiance to the Islamic State group.

The ministry said the plane took off from the resort city of Sharm el-Sheikh shortly before 6 a.m. for St. Petersburg in Russia and disappeared from radar screens 23 minutes after takeoff. Egyptian Prime Minister Sherif Ismail toured the crash site and later told a Cairo news conference that 129 bodies had been recovered.

Photos from the site released by his office showed the badly damaged sky blue tail of the aircraft, with the Metrojet logo still visible. In the background, heaps of smoldering debris dotted the barren terrain.

One photo showed a member of the search team holding the flight recorder, or black box, which Ismail said would be scrutinized as investigators try to determine what caused the crash. Russian investigators were expected to arrive in Egypt on Sunday.

Natalya Trukhacheva, identified as the wife of co-pilot Sergei Trukachev, said in an interview with Russian state-controlled NTV that her husband had complained about the plane's condition.

She said a daughter "called him up before he flew out. He complained before the flight that the technical condition of the aircraft left much to be desired."

One Egyptian official, Ayman al-Muqadem of the government's Aviation Incidents Committee, said that before the plane lost contact with air traffic controllers, the pilot had radioed and said the aircraft was experiencing technical problems and that he intended to try and land at the nearest airport.

It was impossible to independently confirm whether technical problems were to blame, and no other Egyptian official repeated the claim on Saturday.

In a statement on its website, Metrojet said the A321-200 aircraft was in good shape and that the pilot was experienced. It identified the captain as Valery Nemov and said he had 12,000 hours of flying experience, including 3,860 in A321s.

Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov said officials from Moscow and Cairo were in touch over the incident. The Egyptian officials, he said, had not confirmed the claim by Islamic State militants who said they "brought down a Russian plane over Sinai state with more than 220 Russian crusaders on board." The militant group did not provide any evidence to back up its claim.

"Based on our contacts with the Egyptian side, the information that the airplane was shot down must not be considered reliable," Sokolov said, according to a report by the Interfax news agency.

An English-language statement issued by the office of Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi spoke of Russian leader Vladimir Putin commending the efforts made by authorities in Egypt "to uncover the circumstances surrounding the incident."

Militants in northern Sinai have not to date shot down commercial airliners or fighter jets. There have been media reports that they have acquired Russian shoulder-fired, anti-aircraft missiles. But these types of missiles can only be effective against low-flying aircraft or helicopters. The Russian airliner was cruising at 31,000 feet when it lost contact with air traffic controllers, according to Egyptian aviation officials.

In January 2014, Sinai-based militants claimed to have shot down a military helicopter; Egyptian officials at the time acknowledged the helicopter had crashed, but gave no reason.

But two major European airlines — Germany's Lufthansa and Air France — were not taking any chances. Both announced Saturday they would immediately stop flying over Egypt's Sinai Peninsula for safety reasons until the cause of the crash was determined. Their aircraft would take alternate routes to reach destinations in the region.

Spokeswomen for the airlines spoke anonymously in line with their respective companies' regulations.

Egypt's foreign minister, Sameh Shukri, warned "foreign" countries that he did not identify against taking measures that reflect speculations on the cause of the crash. "That will impact the Egyptian economy and lead to damages. These nations must consider this as well as their relations with Egypt," he said.

Friends and relatives of the crash victims were gathering Saturday at a hotel near St. Petersburg's Pulkovo airport. Psychologists were meeting with them in a large conference room off the lobby and police kept journalists away. Some left the room occasionally, looking drawn with tear-stained faces.

Yulia Zaitseva was one of them. She said her friends, newlyweds Elena Rodina and Alexander Krotov, were on the flight. Both were 33. Zaitseva said Rodina, her friend for 20 years, "really wanted to go to Egypt, though I told her, 'Why the hell do you want to go to Egypt?'"

"She was a very good friend who was ready to give everything to other people. To lose such a friend is like having your hand cut off," Zaitseva said, adding that Rodina's parents feel "like their lives are over."

Russian airlines became infamous for poor safety in the early years following the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, which caused severe financial troubles and regulatory disorder. Although accidents have diminished in recent years, crashes persist, many of them blamed on human error.

According to Russian news agencies, the flight was chartered by the St. Petersburg-based Brisco tour company. The plane was made in 1997 and has since 2012 been operated by Metrojet.

Officers from Russia's top investigative body raided the offices of Metrojet and Brisco on Saturday, searching the premises and questioning employees. Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin said agents also took samples of fuel from the airport in the Russian city of Samara where the plane stopped Friday before heading to Sharm el-Sheikh, where it had overnighted.

Roughly three million Russian tourists, or nearly a third of all visitors in 2014, come to Egypt every year, mostly to Red Sea resorts in Sinai or in mainland Egypt.

"It is too premature to detect the impact this will have on tourism. We need to know what happened first," Tourism Ministry spokeswoman Rasha Azazi told The Associated Press.

There was no sign of anything unusual at Sharm el-Sheikh's airport just hours after news of the disaster broke. Hundreds of vacationers, mostly from Europe and the Middle East, were arriving and departing. Flights in the afternoon were leaving at the rate of four to five per hour, with lines for international check-in spilling out the main gates.

Pavel Moroz, a 30-year-old engineer from Moscow, arrived in Sharm el-Sheikh on Saturday afternoon on a Metrojet flight. He plans to stay for a week to take a scuba diving course.

"We heard the news a few hours before leaving and thought for a bit about canceling our trip, but then decided to go anyway and everything was fine," he said as he left the airport.

___

Hendawi reported from Cairo. Associated Press writers Merrit Kennedy and Nour Youssef in Cairo, Irina Titova in St. Petersburg, James Heintz in Moscow, Kirsten Grieshaber in Berlin and Sylvie Corbet in Paris contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-11-01

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Grief and shock in Saint Petersburg as Russian plane crashes in Sinai

Russian President Vladimir Putin has declared 1 November a national day of mourning after a Russian airliner crashed in the Sinai peninsula on Saturday morning, killing 224 people.

Most of the passengers on the plane, which took off from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh and was bound for the Russian city of Saint Petersburg, were Russian.

Relatives of the passengers gathered at a hotel near Saint Petersburg’s Pulkovo airport, where flight KGL9268 had been due to arrive.

“I was meeting my daughter at the airport”, one woman explained.

“She didn’t want me to come to meet her here. She didn’t want to bother us. She’s very independent.”

A traveler arriving at Pulkovo to catch a flight said: “I found out about the crash half an hour before leaving my flat.”

“It’s scary, I’m scared of even entering the airport. Honestly, I don’t know what I will see there. The sadness of people. It is terrifying,” she continued.

Moscow has launched an official investigation into what happened and is sending teams to the crash site in Egypt.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-11-01

[Jonathan Fairfield]

TIMELINE

The Latest: Co-pilot's wife: He complained about plane

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) — The latest news on a Russian passenger plane that crashed Saturday on a flight from Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, to St. Petersburg, Russia.

11:15 p.m.

The wife of the co-pilot of the Russian plane that crashed in Egypt says her husband had complained about the plane's condition, according to a Russian TV channel.

State-controlled NTV ran an interview Saturday with Natalya Trukhacheva, identified as the wife of co-pilot Sergei Trukachev. She said that a daughter "called him up before he flew out. He complained before the flight that the technical condition of the aircraft left much to be desired."

An Egyptian official had previously said that before the plane lost contact with air traffic controllers the pilot had radioed and said the aircraft was experiencing technical problems and that he intended to try and land at the nearest airport.

___

7:25 p.m.

French airline Air France has decided to avoid flying over the Sinai Peninsula for safety reasons, following the crash of a Russian passenger plane in that region of Egypt.

A spokeswoman for the company said Saturday that Air France's flights will avoid the area pending the investigation "as a precaution, until further notice."

The airline will instead use other routes to the region's airports.

The decision follows a similar move by Lufthansa announced earlier Saturday.

___

6:40 p.m.

The Russian airline whose plane crashed in the Sinai region on Saturday says the aircraft was in good shape and the pilot was experienced.

In a statement on its website, Moscow-based Metrojet says the A321 received required factory maintenance in 2014.

The statement identified the captain of the plane as Valery Nemov and said he had 12,000 air hours of experience, including 3,860 in A321s.

___

6:30 p.m.

Following the crash of a Russian plane in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, German airline Lufthansa says it will no longer fly across the area.

A spokeswoman for Lufthansa told The Associated Press that the company had decided in a meeting Saturday that the carrier would not fly over Sinai "as long as the cause for today's crash has not been clarified."

The spokeswoman said that "security is our highest priority." She spoke on condition of anonymity in line with department policy.

For the time being, the airline will instead use detours for destinations in region.

___

5:45 p.m.

The Islamic State group is claiming responsibility for bringing down the Russian Metrojet plane in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula — but it has have offered no evidence and is not known to have the capability to do so.

It is not clear what caused the plane crash Saturday morning that killed 224 people on the flight from Egypt to St. Petersburg. Egyptian officials say the pilot reported technical difficulties and wanted to make an emergency landing. The Metrojet crashed in an area where Egyptian forces have been battling an Islamic insurgency.

Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov has scoffed at the IS claim, telling the Interfax news agency that such reports "must not be considered reliable."

Militants in northern Sinai have not to date shot down any commercial airliners or fighter jets but there have been media reports that they have acquired Russian shoulder-fired, anti-aircraft missiles. These missiles, however, are only effective against low-flying aircraft or helicopters.

___

5:20 p.m.

The airplane tracking site Flight Radar says current air traffic is operating normally over Egypt's restive Sinai Peninsula despite a deadly crash there earlier in the day.

Air traffic in and out of Sharm el-Sheikh was normal and a flight just took off Saturday afternoon heading to Moscow. The Egyptian resort city on the Sinai Peninsula is a favorite destination for Russian tourists.

A Russian Metrojet plane crashed Saturday morning in a mountainous region in the Sinai after taking off from Sharm el-Sheikh, killing all 224 people aboard. Officials said the pilot had reported a technical problem and was looking to make an emergency landing before radio contact with air traffic controllers went dead.

___

4:50 p.m.

Russian investigators are searching the Moscow offices of Metrojet, the company whose chartered plane has crashed in Egypt, killing all 224 people aboard.

Officers of Russia's top investigative body, the Investigative Committee, were also questioning Metrojet employees and doing the same at the St. Petersburg-based Brisco tour agency that had contracted for the flight from the resort of Sharm el-Sheikh to St. Petersburg.

Spokesman Vladimir Markin also said investigators are taking samples of fuel from the airport in Samara where the plane was last fueled.

The plane crashed Saturday morning in a mountainous region of Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, 70 kilometers (44 miles) south of the city of el-Arish, where Egyptian security forces have for years been battling an Islamic militant insurgency.

___

4:20 p.m.

Egypt's foreign minister has promised to work closely with Russian officials and experts to find the cause of the deadly plane crash in the Sinai Peninsula.

Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry called his Russian counterpart to express his condolences for the victims and stressed his country's commitment "to uncover the circumstances surrounding the incident, in full cooperation and coordination with the Russian side."

Egypt and Russia have grown closer diplomatically in recent months.

Officials say all 224 people on board the Airbus A321-200 were killed in the Saturday morning crash that came 23 minutes after the plane took off from the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh. Those on board heading to St. Petersburg included 3 Ukrainians and 221 Russians.

According to Russian news agencies, the Russian airliner was a charter flight under contract with the St. Petersburg-based Brisco tour company.

___

4:05 p.m.

European aircraft manufacturer Airbus confirms that the Russian passenger plane that has crashed in Egypt is an A321-200.

The plane was made in 1997 and since 2012 has been operated by Metrojet, Airbus said in a written statement. The aircraft had accumulated some 56,000 flight hours in nearly 21,000 flights.

The airline manufacturer said an Airbus team of technical advisers "stands by ready to provide full technical assistance to the French Investigation Agency BEA and to the authorities in charge of the investigation."

___

3:55 p.m.

A top Egyptian official says except for three Ukrainian passengers, everyone on board the Russian Metrojet flight that crashed in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula was a Russian citizen.

Adel Mahgoub, chairman of the state company that runs Egypt's civilian airports, spoke after officials said all those aboard the Russian charter flight from Sharm el-Sheikh to St. Petersburg were killed in the crash Saturday morning.

An Egyptian cabinet statement said the 217 passengers included 138 women, 62 men and 17 children. Seven crew, all Russian, were also aboard.

___

3 p.m.

At a hotel near St. Petersburg's Pulkovo airport, the friends and relatives of those on the Metrojet flight that crashed in Egypt are gathering to grieve.

Yulia Zaitseva said her friends, a newlywed couple named Elena Rodina and Alexqander Krotov, were on the flight. Both were 33. Egyptian officials said all 224 people on the flight were Russian and there were no survivors.

Zaitseva says Saturday that her friend "really wanted to go to Egypt, though I told her 'why the hell do you want to go to Egypt?'"

She says "we were friends for 20 years. She was a very good friend who was ready to give everything to other people. To lose such a friend is like having your hand cut off."

She said Rodina's parents feel "like their lives are over."

___

2:45 p.m.

U.S. officials have offered their condolences to Russia and to all the families involved in the crash of a Russian passenger plane in Egypt.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told reports that "We don't know any details about it, but obviously the initial reports represent tremendous tragedy, loss, and we extend our condolences to the families and all those concerned."

Kerry spoke Saturday while on a visit to the former Soviet republic of Kyrgyzstan.

Egyptian officials say all 224 people — 217 passengers and seven crew — on the Metrojet flight were Russian and there were no survivors in Saturday's crash in the Sinai Peninsula.

___

2:15 p.m.

Several Egyptian military and security officials say there are no survivors from the Russian passenger plane carrying 224 people that crashed into Egypt's Sinai Peninsula.

The officials all spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief the media. Aviation experts have reached the crash site near the city of el-Arish.

Officials say all the victims in Saturday's Metrojet plane crash were Russian citizens.

___

2 p.m.

Egypt's civil aviation minister says an investigative team has arrived at the Russian plane crash site in the Sinai peninsula to examine the debris and try to locate the flight's data and cockpit voice recorders, commonly known as the black box.

Egyptian officials say the pilot of the Russian airliner that crashed early Saturday had reported technical difficulties and wanted to make an emergency landing before losing contact with air traffic controllers.

Adel Mahgoub, chairman of the state company that runs Egypt's civilian airports, said the plane had successfully undergone technical checks at Sharm el-Sheikh's airport before taking off. He said experts were going there to view security camera footage of the Metrojet plane at the airport.

The plane, carrying 217 passengers and 7 crew, all Russians, went down in an area where Egypt has been fighting an Islamic insurgency.

___

1:50 p.m.

The Kremlin has declared Nov. 1 a day of mourning for those who died in a Russian plane crash in Egypt's Sinai peninsula.

Adel Mahgoub, chairman of the state company that runs Egypt's civilian airports, said all 217 passengers and seven crew on the Metrojet flight Saturday from Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt to St. Petersburg were Russian citizens. The plane has crashed but there is no report yet on any death toll.

Russia's Premier League says all its soccer matches this week would begin with a minute of silence for the crash victims.

Roughly three million Russian tourists come to Egypt every year — nearly a third of all of the country's visitors in 2014 — mostly to Red Sea resorts in Sinai or in mainland Egypt.

___

1:30 p.m.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered Russian emergency officials to fly immediately to the site of the Russian plane crash in Egypt's Sinai peninsula.

Russia's Emergencies Minister Vladimir Puchkov will coordinate the search and rescue operation in Egypt, the ministry said Saturday.

Authorities say the plane was carrying 217 passengers and 7 crew members from the Egyptian city of Sharm el-Sheikh, a popular tourist resort for Russians, back to St. Petersburg.

___

1:10 p.m.

Russia's Investigative Committee, the country's top investigative body, has opened an investigation into the crash of a Russian passenger jet in Egypt's Sinai peninsula for possible violations of flight safety procedures.

Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin made the announcement in a statement Saturday.

An Egyptian aviation official says the pilot of Metrojet Flight 7K9268 had reported technical difficulties early Saturday and planned an emergency landing at the nearest airport before losing contact with Egyptian air traffic controllers and crashing.

Authorities say the plane was carrying 217 passengers and 7 crew members from Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, to St. Petersburg.

___

12:40 p.m.

An Egyptian aviation official says the pilot of the Russian airliner that crashed in the Sinai Peninsula had reported technical difficulties before losing contact with air traffic controllers.

Ayman al-Muqadem, a member of the Aviation Incidents Committee, said the pilot had reported his intention to attempt to land at the nearest airport.

Egyptian authorities say the Metrojet plane took off early Saturday from Sharm el-Sheikh, a popular Red Sea tourist destination, heading for St. Petersburg carrying 217 passengers and 7 crew members.

Plane tracking website Flight Radar said the flight disappeared from radar 23 minutes after takeoff. Egyptian authorities say it crashed in Egypt's Sinai peninsula. The crash site is in an area where the government is fighting an Islamic insurgency.

___

12:25 p.m.

Egyptian authorities say the wreckage of a Russian passenger jet has been found in area where Egyptian forces are fighting an Islamic militant insurgency.

Egyptian security forces have been waging major operations against a burgeoning insurgency in the northern Sinai peninsula, including the city of el-Arish. Egyptian officials say the wreckage was found in the Hassana area south of el-Arish.

The long-restive northern Sinai has seen a spike in attacks targeting security forces since the military overthrow of Islamist President Mohammed Morsi in 2013. An Islamic State affiliate has claimed responsibility for many of the deadly attacks. The Egyptian government has restricted journalists' access to the area.

___

11:55 a.m.

Russia's civil air agency is expected to have a news conference shortly to talk about the Russian Metrojet passenger plane that Egyptian authorities say has crashed in Egypt's Sinai peninsula.

Officials were gathering at a hotel adjacent to the St. Petersburg airport, where Egyptian officials say the plane was heading with 217 passengers and 7 crew members.

The plane took off early Saturday from Sharm el-Sheikh, a popular Red Sea tourist destination for Russians. Plane tracking website Flight Radar said Metrojet flight #7K9268 disappeared over Egypt 23 minutes after takeoff.

__

11:15 a.m.

Egypt's Ministry of Civil Aviation has confirmed that a Russian passenger plane has crashed in the Sinai peninsula.

The ministry said earlier Saturday it had lost contact with a Russian aircraft carrying 217 passengers and 7 crew members.

A statement carried by Egypt's state-run MENA news agency says the plane took off from Sinai's Sharm el-Sheikh, a popular destination for Russian tourists, at 5:51 a.m. Saturday and disappeared from radar screens 23 minutes after takeoff.

It said the aircraft was bound for St. Petersburg in Russia. A search and rescue team is looking for the plane.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-11-01

[Richard W]

Islamic State planning mass attack on Britain, warns head of MI5 So what is so hard too shoot down a plane fly so near to you?

Gravity. The best range for man-portable air defence systems is about 20,000 ft, the highest ground in the peninsula is just over 10,000 ft (and the aircraft avoids flying over this high ground), and the aircraft was flying at 30,000 ft. I doubt that maximum range is achieved for straight up, so the occasionally recommended minimum altitude of 26,000 ft may suffice. One caveat is missile range and true aircraft altitude depend on air temperature, so there may not have been as large a safety margin as there seems to be.

Larger air defence systems, which are capable of greater altitudes, should have been spotted; we're not looking at a repeat of MH17 but with malice against airliners.

[smotherb]

Waiting on the cause....no reports yet of reasons for the crash.

I would not rule out an attack....seems too sureal.

If it was...then I suspect it is only the beginning.

If some terrorists moderate rebels shot down the airplane with some anti airplane weapon supplied by the USA, than we can start digging bunkers......

Lets hope it was technical problem or the pilots fault.....

“Isis didn’t come from nowhere, its weapons don’t come from nowhere. We sell vast amounts of weapons to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and a number of other places – how many of those end up in the hands of Isis? With all that money in their hands,” Jeremy Corbyn, MP Islington North told a BBC Question Time audience.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-arms-sales-to-the-middle-east-are-probably-fuelling-isis-says-jeremy-corbyn-10364998.html

[NeverSure]

I'm not speculating what happened because I don't know, of course.

If the reports of the vertical velocity of the plane in descent and of wreckage being widely scattered are true, those things would be consistent with a mid-air explosion from a bomb in the cargo hold or a missile or something else causing a mid-air breakup of the plane.

If engines just stop the plane becomes a glider and doesn't fall all that fast at all. Even if the elevator failed it would still oscillate but not descend that fast. In those two scenarios there also wouldn't be cause for wreckage to be widely scattered.

RIP to the victims and condolences to the family and friends. I hope the authorities solve this and make it public.

[slipperylobster]

Russian A321 fell 'almost vertically', technical fault behind crash

Maybe I am the only one, but I swear, I could not understand a single sentence from that girl in the video. Every other word was eerrrr or ahhhhhh or something . Got absolutely nothing from her.

[mcfish]

What ever it was it was to catastrophic for the pilots to continue any type update with ATC which tends to point to structural failure or an unrecoverable spin

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[slipperylobster]

I'm not speculating what happened because I don't know, of course.

If the reports of the vertical velocity of the plane in descent and of wreckage being widely scattered are true, those things would be consistent with a mid-air explosion from a bomb in the cargo hold or a missile or something else causing a mid-air breakup of the plane.

If engines just stop the plane becomes a glider and doesn't fall all that fast at all. Even if the elevator failed it would still oscillate but not descend that fast. In those two scenarios there also wouldn't be cause for wreckage to be widely scattered.

RIP to the victims and condolences to the family and friends. I hope the authorities solve this and make it public.

What makes it all so mysterious is that Russia claims there was no Pilot error...but I read a report where the pilot called his wife and was not happy about the condition of the airplane. If he flew it, knowing that serious problems existed...than it was indeed a pilot error. You would think a pilot would refuse to fly an airplane that was unfit.

I suppose that means the plane was pretty much good to go. No gliding....a catastrophic "sudden" event, in which there was no radio communication (was there?) just before it dropped. Said he was diverting to another airport...but one does not divert in a straight line down to the ground.

[slipperylobster]

Here is a much better video....can understand what is being said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/31/middleeast/egypt-plane-crash/index.html

would not rely on RT for accuracy. Glaring errors in reporting this previously..included "survivors", "no black box", etc.

This clears at least those fallacies up as well as demonstrates that the pilot had no time to communicate/or glide. It was sudden.

Edited November 1, 2015 by slipperylobster

[elgordo38]

I'm not speculating what happened because I don't know, of course.

If the reports of the vertical velocity of the plane in descent and of wreckage being widely scattered are true, those things would be consistent with a mid-air explosion from a bomb in the cargo hold or a missile or something else causing a mid-air breakup of the plane.

If engines just stop the plane becomes a glider and doesn't fall all that fast at all. Even if the elevator failed it would still oscillate but not descend that fast. In those two scenarios there also wouldn't be cause for wreckage to be widely scattered.

RIP to the victims and condolences to the family and friends. I hope the authorities solve this and make it public.

What makes it all so mysterious is that Russia claims there was no Pilot error...but I read a report where the pilot called his wife and was not happy about the condition of the airplane. If he flew it, knowing that serious problems existed...than it was indeed a pilot error. You would think a pilot would refuse to fly an airplane that was unfit.

I suppose that means the plane was pretty much good to go. No gliding....a catastrophic "sudden" event, in which there was no radio communication (was there?) just before it dropped. Said he was diverting to another airport...but one does not divert in a straight line down to the ground.

Quote You would think a pilot would refuse to fly an airplane that was unfit. unquote. Your talking about Russia now not the USA. I would not be surprised that if he refused to fly this hunk of junk he would be out of a job. Guess that would be preferred to being dead of course. Alive with no income. Kind of makes me wonder what the future of ordinary workers will be world wide in the future.

Edited November 1, 2015 by elgordo38

[slipperylobster]

I'm not speculating what happened because I don't know, of course.

If the reports of the vertical velocity of the plane in descent and of wreckage being widely scattered are true, those things would be consistent with a mid-air explosion from a bomb in the cargo hold or a missile or something else causing a mid-air breakup of the plane.

If engines just stop the plane becomes a glider and doesn't fall all that fast at all. Even if the elevator failed it would still oscillate but not descend that fast. In those two scenarios there also wouldn't be cause for wreckage to be widely scattered.

RIP to the victims and condolences to the family and friends. I hope the authorities solve this and make it public.

What makes it all so mysterious is that Russia claims there was no Pilot error...but I read a report where the pilot called his wife and was not happy about the condition of the airplane. If he flew it, knowing that serious problems existed...than it was indeed a pilot error. You would think a pilot would refuse to fly an airplane that was unfit.

I suppose that means the plane was pretty much good to go. No gliding....a catastrophic "sudden" event, in which there was no radio communication (was there?) just before it dropped. Said he was diverting to another airport...but one does not divert in a straight line down to the ground.

Quote You would think a pilot would refuse to fly an airplane that was unfit. unquote. Your talking about Russia now not the USA. I would not be surprised that if he refused to fly this hunk of junk he would be out of a job. Guess that would be preferred to being dead of course. Alive with no income. Kind of makes me wonder what the future of ordinary workers will be world wide in the future.

true. it was a choice of flying or gulag chess.