cliveshep Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 This has probably been done to death before but if so I couldn't easily find it. We are buying a second hand house in Min Buri, I say "we" when I can have ownership of some of the house but none of the land I know, what I need to understand before I part with my millions of baht is how the process works. I understand how it works in the UK with solicitors etc but what is the transfer procesure in Thailand? Do we turn up at the Amphur with a wheelbarrow full of cash and everybody signs papers or is it more sophisticated and therefore time consuming. Right now we are renting but we really need to get into our own space A.S.A.P. Can some experienced soul talk us through it please or should I re-post on the "ask a lawyer" forum"? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Agree price. Everyone turns up at the Land Office. Fill paperwork. Pay transfer tax. Hand over cash/certified cheque to seller. You may need to sign a document stating you have no financial interest in the land (seems to depend upon the land office) Land office update Chanote. QED It really is that easy, any encumbrances will be recorded on the back of the land deed (Chanote). Be wary if the Chanote has been 'lost', the land office will issue a new one but if it was given as security for a dodgy loan you will have problems when the lender turns up to claim 'his' property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Just to add that the transfer of the property will be into your partners name, as a Brit (farang) you will have no right to ownership unless, 1) you are married to a Thai, in which case you become eligible for a 50% share, in a worst case scenario, or, 2) you take out an usufruct on the property which gives you a lifetime interest in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul944 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 A related question. How difficult is it to obtain an usufruct when your thai gf 'buys' a property? I though it was illegal to buy property with the intention to 'give' it to a foreigner. And do most people use cheques to pay for the house? Obtaining and counting a few million baht in cash seems a lot of work to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbb Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 As posted earlier, I had two ufstructs issued. One was 5 years ago, another was about 4 years ago. No problems. When we bought a 3rd property in Pattaya, we were told at the land office two months ago that ufstructs were no longer issued. There was no explanation, and we did not follow up with a lawyer ... Would be interested in what others have been experiencing lately ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maderaroja Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Agree price. Everyone turns up at the Land Office. Fill paperwork. Pay transfer tax. Hand over cash/certified cheque to seller. You may need to sign a document stating you have no financial interest in the land (seems to depend upon the land office) Land office update Chanote. QED It really is that easy, any encumbrances will be recorded on the back of the land deed (Chanote). Be wary if the Chanote has been 'lost', the land office will issue a new one but if it was given as security for a dodgy loan you will have problems when the lender turns up to claim 'his' property. Many Thai people, including some who are wealthy business people, are afraid of a cashier's check. This has been my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maderaroja Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) As posted earlier, I had two ufstructs issued. One was 5 years ago, another was about 4 years ago. No problems. When we bought a 3rd property in Pattaya, we were told at the land office two months ago that ufstructs were no longer issued. There was no explanation, and we did not follow up with a lawyer ... Would be interested in what others have been experiencing lately ... The usufruct is still valid in Thailand. If you do not want representation by a "lawyer", you could try to have a small conference with the head person at the Land Office. The Land Office has all of the forms and is the official "last word" on what gets done. No "lawyer" is needed. Edited November 4, 2015 by maderaroja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissbie Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 A related question. How difficult is it to obtain an usufruct when your thai gf 'buys' a property? I though it was illegal to buy property with the intention to 'give' it to a foreigner. And do most people use cheques to pay for the house? Obtaining and counting a few million baht in cash seems a lot of work to me. No big problem to count the money, but much safer to use cheques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukKrueng Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 "Many Thai people, including some who are wealthy business people, are afraid of a cashier's check. This has been my experience." happened to me once. signed all the papers at rhe land office. Got the name changed (added) to the chanote. Prevevious owner held on to the chanote while we went together to the bank. Once the bank approved the cheque I got the chanote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonaRain Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 It is possible to void a check in the u.s..even a cashier's check, with a phone call. So bank approval is wise. Thailand or elsewhere.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laislica Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 A related question. How difficult is it to obtain an usufruct when your thai gf 'buys' a property? I though it was illegal to buy property with the intention to 'give' it to a foreigner. And do most people use cheques to pay for the house? Obtaining and counting a few million baht in cash seems a lot of work to me. We turned up at Kasikorn without any notice and withdrew 2 million Baht. It came in several big brown paper envelopes. They took the cash from the vault, it came in banded blocks of 100,000b. They opened the bands and recounted them in the machine - watched by the eagle eye of 'er who must be obeyed! (I swear I say her salivating he he) We did the process as well described by Crossy. Everyone was delighted - to have their hands on so much cash at one point - Bliss. (pictures of their good luck were taken LOL) Even when buying new from a builder, they did not want a cash transfer. Well, I suppose cash is easier to hide than transfers or cheques? We've done it three times so far, relax and enjoy the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 "I say "we" when I can have ownership of some of the house but none of the land I know" You know wrong, you can't own any part of land or a second hand house. To own the house, you need to build new, in your name at every stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 ..... we were told at the land office two months ago that ufstructs were no longer issued. And if you're married not valid anyway. As husband and wife cannot enter into binding contracts with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Agree price. Everyone turns up at the Land Office. Fill paperwork. Pay transfer tax. Hand over cash/certified cheque to seller. You may need to sign a document stating you have no financial interest in the land (seems to depend upon the land office) Land office update Chanote. QED It really is that easy, any encumbrances will be recorded on the back of the land deed (Chanote). Be wary if the Chanote has been 'lost', the land office will issue a new one but if it was given as security for a dodgy loan you will have problems when the lender turns up to claim 'his' property. Yes! That is pretty well all that is to this. Just to highlight a couple of points, you need to go to the Land Office in your district to do the property transfer and not the Local Amphur. If you don't know where the seller will. When agreeing on price, also agree as to who is paying the property tax. I guess the standard here is you both pay 50-50 but in my case during negotiations the seller decide he would pay it all. Also agree on how he wants to receive his payment. Many Older Thais don't trust checks. Mine wanted it all in cash. He came to the bank with me and witnessed the withdraw from the bank counting machine. At no point did I use a Lawyer for this land transfer but your circumstance may be different than mine. My Thai Wife personally knew this old couple for many years, as did her family, so there was no doubt in my mind who owned this property or to their honesty. In my view this property investment also wasn't that large. You might want to engage a lawyer to do a property search, if you feel uneasy about things but you do not need one to do the property transfer at the land office. You do need someone who can speak Thai though, as their English "No Too Good". Since you legally can't own land in Thailand, unless under special circumstance, you really should consider a 30 Year Lease or a Usufruct with your partner. In my case I went with a Usufruct. It doesn't give you ownership of the the house and land, but it does give you the right to live there and use it as you see fit for the rest of your life (Barring a Divorce). Again you can probably get by without a lawyer doing this for you but I elected to go with a lawyer and in which I am glad I did. My property purchase not only involved a house but several Rai of land also. My several paged document I got from the lawyer clearly spelled out my rights under this agreement, the land involved, and length of time this agreement is in force and when it ends, in both Thai and English. The Lawyers Signature also acted as a Witness to this agreement. I did this prior to the Land Transfer, although it is possible to do after I suppose. It only took my lawyer a few days to draw up these documents and it didn't cost me that much. I can't remember the exact price now but I think it was somewhere between 6,000 to 8,000 Baht, which I still feel was worth it. I turned the letter into the Land Office when we purchased this land and in about 3 weeks or so I returned to have this Usufruct listed in the Land Certificate (Chanote). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 ..... we were told at the land office two months ago that ufstructs were no longer issued. And if you're married not valid anyway. As husband and wife cannot enter into binding contracts with each other. If you are talking about Family Law, as in a Divorce Court, you would be 100% correct in your statement. But under Civil Law it is a bit different. Take for example if your wife dies before you do, and decides to leave this property to her children, or whoever. Civil Law states that a "Usufruct" between husband and wife: "enables the foreign spouse to use the property when he survives the Thai spouse and registered owner." Here is a LINK that explains this: http://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/usufruct-in-a-thai-marriage.html So it seems to me that it is still seems a good idea to have a "Usufruct" even if it doesn't hold water in a Divorce Court. In which case if the property was purchased during the marriage and you were to Divorce, it would become part of the joint assets and split 50-50 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 As posted earlier, I had two ufstructs issued. One was 5 years ago, another was about 4 years ago. No problems. When we bought a 3rd property in Pattaya, we were told at the land office two months ago that ufstructs were no longer issued. There was no explanation, and we did not follow up with a lawyer ... Would be interested in what others have been experiencing lately ... I think for you in your case it has more to do with the amount of properties you have on a Usufruct already. I read long ago that the maximum is 2 properties, but I can't remember now where I read that. I do know I did a Usufruct less than a year ago and it was no problem for me in Udon Thani. I can't see this being a regional thing, but who knows. Maybe others from Pattaya who applied for a Usufruct their recently can answer this for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Readers may wish to also understand a "Superficies" agreement which may be an option for some, the name in Thai is See-Tee-Nua-Tee-Din, it gives rights to would be buyers and is also quite powerful. Finally, usufruct's are allowed at some Land Offices but not at others, folks need to check in their location. The bottom line on all of this is that anyone who is considering buying property, for whatever purpose, need to seek sound legal advise rather than take as fact, anything that's posted on any social forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcab Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 "Many Thai people, including some who are wealthy business people, are afraid of a cashier's check. This has been my experience." For larger purchases you can pay your taxes and fees (if applicable) with a cashiers cheque. The land office does accept them, but it takes a little longer as they phone the bank to verify. In reality it's much quicker to use cash for taxes/fees less than a milion baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliveshep Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Thanks to all who gave such informative answers so my original question. We have put in an offer for a house and it has been accepted and a 20k deposit paid with a proper contract all signed and witnessed. The seller has a hefty mortgage with the bank and wants balance by cashier's check and her bank will send someone with her and us to the Land Office to ensure hwr mortgage is redeemed legally. Then we have a home we need to do some pretty serious re-modelling work on! More on that on another forum.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samsung99 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 As posted earlier, I had two ufstructs issued. One was 5 years ago, another was about 4 years ago. No problems. When we bought a 3rd property in Pattaya, we were told at the land office two months ago that ufstructs were no longer issued. There was no explanation, and we did not follow up with a lawyer ... Would be interested in what others have been experiencing lately ... The usufruct is still valid in Thailand. If you do not want representation by a "lawyer", you could try to have a small conference with the head person at the Land Office. The Land Office has all of the forms and is the official "last word" on what gets done. No "lawyer" is needed. Great information! Thanks. So did you succeed with your usufruct in Pattaya or was it a general recomendation to talk to the head of the land office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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