Why is English the Universal Language of A.S.E.A.N?

[TuskegeeBen]

I remain amazed that the Thai decision makers don't use the free to air TV and radio more to encourage the use of English.

Countries such as the Philippines and Singapore and Malaysia have a good selection of English channels. I don't know what the Thais have on Kids' TV, but good ol' Sesame Street was a big help to our kids in Australia in their very early years. Are there English education programs shown on TV for school use?

It's interesting that many Burmese working around Chiang Mai seem to have a good grasp of English.

Exactamundo! And the Burmese language, is the exact same tongue-twister of a language, as is Thai. Go figure???

Actually, Thailand has more television stations (per capita) than all the other SE Asian nations combined. Do the math research comparative.The interesting topic for that discussion, is why (with the inevitable advent of ASEAN) has the Thai (ethnic Chinese minority) controlled, mass-media TV network, not made available, more English speaking education channels, e.g. "Sesame Street" to the masses of Thai children? That, is a totally different topic of discussion, of its own merit.

In addition to that, I now recall a previous debate, with a SinoThai (ethnic Thai Chinese), on the topic, re: the blatant racial absence of indigenous Thai (represented) presence, on daily Thai television (and several other venues, as well, eg, Thai Airways International flight service personnel). His (quite calmly spoken) explanation was an astounding revelation, of which I cannot post to this very public forum. It was an EYE opener, indeed!

Edited November 6, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[does]

You are absolutely right abut the pronounciation. Native English speakers who do not speak a second language are oblivous to this issue.

My understanding is that English is two thirds a Latin language (Latin/French) and one third Germanic with smatterings of other languages due to the effects of colonisation. The Latin influence is from the Norman conquest of 1066 and I would also add that that English is not precise as we have no accents or additional letters like German in the written language to show how to pronounce words when reading so you have to learn by rote how to pronounce certain words. Take for example lead & lead - (leed & led), wallet & ballet is another good example. I'm Welsh so even though I come from a non Welsh speaking area there are a lot of Welsh words mixed in with our language and a similar thing occurs in the NE of England with Scandinavian influence due to the Viking invasion.

[TuskegeeBen]

You are absolutely right abut the pronounciation. Native English speakers who do not speak a second language are oblivous to this issue.

My understanding is that English is two thirds a Latin language (Latin/French) and one third Germanic with smatterings of other languages due to the effects of colonisation. The Latin influence is from the Norman conquest of 1066 and I would also add that that English is not precise as we have no accents or additional letters like German in the written language to show how to pronounce words when reading so you have to learn by rote how to pronounce certain words. Take for example lead & lead - (leed & led), wallet & ballet is another good example. I'm Welsh so even though I come from a non Welsh speaking area there are a lot of Welsh words mixed in with our language and a similar thing occurs in the NE of England with Scandinavian influence due to the Viking invasion.

I'm sure the 1000+ Spaniards (of the 1588 Spanish Armada catastrophe) who washed ashore, and remained in Fastnet region of Ireland (Black Irish) and England, certainly made a significant Spanish language impact upon that region, as well. Moving progressively along.

I lived, and worked in both Germany and Denmark for a number of years. I managed to obtain a working proficiency level of both languages (despite the fact that many of my native, indigenous colleagues, actually spoke better English than myself). In an effort to not become overly verbose, regarding the off-topic minute historical details, English is considered to be, and remains a fundamentally Teutonic based language (according to the Anglo/Saxon natives, themselves), despite the 1066 Norman invasion.

Thus, the quite specific ethnic designation of the White_Anglo_Saxon_Protestant demographic. The Romance Languages based Catholicism, is not withstanding, within that particular reality. A totally different OP topic of debate!

Cheers

Edited November 6, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

It's handy if you are a pilot.....

100% for sure.

[kaorop]

I remain amazed that the Thai decision makers don't use the free to air TV and radio more to encourage the use of English.

Countries such as the Philippines and Singapore and Malaysia have a good selection of English channels. I don't know what the Thais have on Kids' TV, but good ol' Sesame Street was a big help to our kids in Australia in their very early years. Are there English education programs shown on TV for school use?

It's interesting that many Burmese working around Chiang Mai seem to have a good grasp of English.

That would be seen as 'colonialism' and a dilution of the 'culture', and most of those in power who could do something are rather xenophobic in the extreme

[TuskegeeBen]

I have a Taiwanese friend who is a linguist and certified in simultaneous interpretation. He speaks 7 languages fluently. He explained that Chinese would never replace English as an international language because English is a fluid language as opposed to a fixed language meaning that English is always evolving and taking in new words. Example the word computer … in Chinese it is thinking machine. This is one reason English is the most precise language in the world. English adapts to new environments where other languages do not. English is comprised of several languages and is a natural stepping stone to learning other European languages.

I believeThailand has been kept poor and under educated primarily because of the overwhelming corruption in all levels of government leaving higher education for the children of the elite.

The elitist statement of a former Minister of Education a few years ago is a dead give-away of the elitist thinking to keep a cheap labor force of under educated people. Thailand does not need to have English as an official second language because it might give the impression that Thailand was colonized.

FYI ~ In the real world of events, Thailand was smoothly colonized, same as with the current re-colonization scheme, re: sub-Sahara Afric. The Chameleon is a very resourceful creature .

Edited November 6, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[2fishin2]

My stepson has recently brought home an English text book from school for study. To my great surprise it is written in true English, not American. Americans masquerade by calling very many text books English when they are not written in English at all but American which is a bastardised version of the language much like pigeon English. If Americans want to produce language books please name them for what they are. They are not English but American. Both pronunciation and spelling are different. This is always going to be a problem for people trying to learn the language.

ASEAN have declared their official language to be English. I wonder if it really will be.

Your post is lost and racial.

[Dogbreath]

My stepson has recently brought home an English text book from school for study. To my great surprise it is written in true English, not American. Americans masquerade by calling very many text books English when they are not written in English at all but American which is a bastardised version of the language much like pigeon English. If Americans want to produce language books please name them for what they are. They are not English but American. Both pronunciation and spelling are different. This is always going to be a problem for people trying to learn the language.

ASEAN have declared their official language to be English. I wonder if it really will be.

Born and educated in North America (USA) I have never had a problem communicating precisely with any native English speaker be they English, Irish, Scotch, Australian, or Canadian. Same goes for any Scandinavian or European, South American or Asian with the possible exception of some Indians, who learned English as a second language. Americans and English speak the same language regional dialects accents and idioms notwithstanding. BTW it's "pidgin English".

[cnx355]

For me the answer is simple ! Each ASEAN countries has his own language not shared by others !

In most of them, if not all, English is learned as a second language / business language.

So English was a natural choice to communicate between them, and other countries to negotiate business deal.

Chinese could have been chosen but Chinese business already use a lot of English too.

[TuskegeeBen]

My stepson has recently brought home an English text book from school for study. To my great surprise it is written in true English, not American. Americans masquerade by calling very many text books English when they are not written in English at all but American which is a bastardised version of the language much like pigeon English. If Americans want to produce language books please name them for what they are. They are not English but American. Both pronunciation and spelling are different. This is always going to be a problem for people trying to learn the language.

ASEAN have declared their official language to be English. I wonder if it really will be.

Born and educated in North America (USA) I have never had a problem communicating precisely with any native English speaker be they English, Irish, Scotch, Australian, or Canadian. Same goes for any Scandinavian or European, South American or Asian with the possible exception of some Indians, who learned English as a second language. Americans and English speak the same language regional dialects accents and idioms notwithstanding. BTW it's "pidgin English".

Excellent responseThanks, for contributing. However, I'm curious to know if that hugh has the same opinion "pidgin" English speaking attitude toward the heavily accented Aussies, Cockneys of Birmingham, Blackpool, Liverpool, London, the Belfast Irish, the Welsh, and or the Scottish? Looking forward to reading your answer to this (off-topic) question, there hugh. Especially since you took it there, to begin with. Cheers!

Edited November 6, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[sandrabbit]

You are absolutely right abut the pronounciation. Native English speakers who do not speak a second language are oblivous to this issue.

My understanding is that English is two thirds a Latin language (Latin/French) and one third Germanic with smatterings of other languages due to the effects of colonisation. The Latin influence is from the Norman conquest of 1066 and I would also add that that English is not precise as we have no accents or additional letters like German in the written language to show how to pronounce words when reading so you have to learn by rote how to pronounce certain words. Take for example lead & lead - (leed & led), wallet & ballet is another good example. I'm Welsh so even though I come from a non Welsh speaking area there are a lot of Welsh words mixed in with our language and a similar thing occurs in the NE of England with Scandinavian influence due to the Viking invasion.

I'm sure the 1000+ Spaniards (of the 1588 Spanish Armada catastrophe) who washed ashore, and remained in Fastnet region of Ireland (Black Irish) and England, certainly made a significant Spanish language impact upon that region, as well. Moving progressively along.

I lived, and worked in both Germany and Denmark for a number of years. I managed to obtain a working proficiency level of both languages (despite the fact that many of my native, indigenous colleagues, actually spoke better English than myself). In an effort to not become overly verbose, regarding the off-topic minute historical details, English is considered to be, and remains a fundamentally Teutonic based language (according to the Anglo/Saxon natives, themselves), despite the 1066 Norman invasion.

Thus, the quite specific ethnic designation of the White_Anglo_Saxon_Protestant demographic. The Romance Languages based Catholicism, is not withstanding, within that particular reality. A totally different OP topic of debate!

Cheers

You're not averse to emphasising words are you, it just makes your words look jumbled?. WASP is not used in the UK it is an American expression and it is still 2/3rds Latin and it is not a minute detail no matter how many times you underline, make bold etc. You are the one Americanising UK English. As far the Angle heritage goes it is almost extinct in the UK, the British people are predominantly Saxon even amongst the so called Celtic nations although there are a lot of Norman descent amongst the Irish. I always remember an Irish colleague getting quite mad when an Englishman explained that his surname Burke was Norman not Irish.

[TuskegeeBen]

You are absolutely right abut the pronounciation. Native English speakers who do not speak a second language are oblivous to this issue.

My understanding is that English is two thirds a Latin language (Latin/French) and one third Germanic with smatterings of other languages due to the effects of colonisation. The Latin influence is from the Norman conquest of 1066 and I would also add that that English is not precise as we have no accents or additional letters like German in the written language to show how to pronounce words when reading so you have to learn by rote how to pronounce certain words. Take for example lead & lead - (leed & led), wallet & ballet is another good example. I'm Welsh so even though I come from a non Welsh speaking area there are a lot of Welsh words mixed in with our language and a similar thing occurs in the NE of England with Scandinavian influence due to the Viking invasion.

I'm sure the 1000+ Spaniards (of the 1588 Spanish Armada catastrophe) who washed ashore, and remained in Fastnet region of Ireland (Black Irish) and England, certainly made a significant Spanish language impact upon that region, as well. Moving progressively along.

I lived, and worked in both Germany and Denmark for a number of years. I managed to obtain a working proficiency level of both languages (despite the fact that many of my native, indigenous colleagues, actually spoke better English than myself). In an effort to not become overly verbose, regarding the off-topic minute historical details, English is considered to be, and remains a fundamentally Teutonic based language (according to the Anglo/Saxon natives, themselves), despite the 1066 Norman invasion.

Thus, the quite specific ethnic designation of the White_Anglo_Saxon_Protestant demographic. The Romance Languages based Catholicism, is not withstanding, within that particular reality. A totally different OP topic of debate!

Cheers

You're not averse to emphasising words are you, it just makes your words look jumbled?. WASP is not used in the UK it is an American expression and it is still 2/3rds Latin and it is not a minute detail no matter how many times you underline, make bold etc. You are the one Americanising UK English. As far the Angle heritage goes it is almost extinct in the UK, the British people are predominantly Saxon even amongst the so called Celtic nations although there are a lot of Norman descent amongst the Irish. I always remember an Irish colleague getting quite mad when an Englishman explained that his surname Burke was Norman not Irish.

Everyone has their own personal writing style. Obviously, sir!, you are certainly no exception. I reiterate. This is an open, dual-tiered debate forum. ALL opinions are welcomed, including of the personal attacking (whatever one needs to keep their obviously sinking boat, afloat), hostile, and emotionally charged, subtle insulting replies, as well,

Moderator, please just let it be. Thanks, moving progressively along .

Edited November 6, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[Mudcrab]

English is a precise language?

In the written form maybe...but spoken.....precise...really?

You want too? or you want two?

Opening the window, he threw out his chest.

Where's/wears the soap

etc etc etc

It's all in the context...the same as many languages,including Thai.

[Mudcrab]

My stepson has recently brought home an English text book from school for study. To my great surprise it is written in true English, not American. Americans masquerade by calling very many text books English when they are not written in English at all but American which is a bastardised version of the language much like pigeon English. If Americans want to produce language books please name them for what they are. They are not English but American. Both pronunciation and spelling are different. This is always going to be a problem for people trying to learn the language.

ASEAN have declared their official language to be English. I wonder if it really will be.

Born and educated in North America (USA) I have never had a problem communicating precisely with any native English speaker be they English, Irish, Scotch, Australian, or Canadian. Same goes for any Scandinavian or European, South American or Asian with the possible exception of some Indians, who learned English as a second language. Americans and English speak the same language regional dialects accents and idioms notwithstanding. BTW it's "pidgin English".

You must have really hit the Scotch if you can communicate with it.

I prefer to talk to the Scots...then drink their Scotch

[masuk]

English is a precise language?

In the written form maybe...but spoken.....precise...really?

You want too? or you want two?

Opening the window, he threw out his chest.

Where's/wears the soap

etc etc etc

It's all in the context...the same as many languages,including Thai.

Agreed. There are a great many words which sound the same, and I guess it depends on the level of education a writer has, and as you say, also the context. If he's moving furniture in a hurry, maybe he did throw out his chest.

I've seen some incredible writing on various sites, such as "he pealed off his shirt, peaked around the corner" etc. Sounds good, but might be difficult.

It's not uncommon for writers to not understand the big difference between "than" and "then". e.g. "he preferred girls then boys".

[SantiSuk]

I remain amazed that the Thai decision makers don't use the free to air TV and radio more to encourage the use of English.

Countries such as the Philippines and Singapore and Malaysia have a good selection of English channels. I don't know what the Thais have on Kids' TV, but good ol' Sesame Street was a big help to our kids in Australia in their very early years. Are there English education programs shown on TV for school use?

It's interesting that many Burmese working around Chiang Mai seem to have a good grasp of English.

Interesting but not surprising. Burma was British Empire and the Brit colonialists always enforced English as the language of officialdom and (to a certain extent education) on it's 'subjects'. India has even more endemic English skills but that is mostly driven by its role as a unifying language in a nation of several strongly practiced 'local' languages. Maybe Myanmar has several languages too?

[sirineou]

the title of the OP and the Op do not reconcile and are two different subjects

Why is English the Universal Language of A.S.E.A.N?

because it the most common;y shared language

why are Thais unprepared.

this is your opinion, and it is arguable

Edited November 6, 2015 by sirineou

[Pormax]

"Anyone, caring to share their considered opinion, as to the reasons why the Thais are not ready, and/or the aftermath probability factors, please do so? "

The rich Thai's are in charge. They are not going to become poor because the Thais are not ready. The aftermath will be that the rich Thais are still rich and the poor will still be poor. Not much downside for the Thai rich or poor.

To consider upside is not the Thai way.

That question is so easy to answer,

The English/Thai teachers are very poor and in my experience don't understand what they are teaching.

The second reason is the students don't want to learn, they are lazy.

Some of this is without doubt that the importance of learning English due to the ASEAN agrement is not told to the students.

[TuskegeeBen]

"Anyone, caring to share their considered opinion, as to the reasons why the Thais are not ready, and/or the aftermath probability factors, please do so? "

The rich Thai's are in charge. They are not going to become poor because the Thais are not ready. The aftermath will be that the rich Thais are still rich and the poor will still be poor. Not much downside for the Thai rich or poor.

To consider upside is not the Thai way.

Simple, direct and to the point. Great reply. Thank you

[2fishin2]

You are absolutely right abut the pronounciation. Native English speakers who do not speak a second language are oblivous to this issue.

My understanding is that English is two thirds a Latin language (Latin/French) and one third Germanic with smatterings of other languages due to the effects of colonisation. The Latin influence is from the Norman conquest of 1066 and I would also add that that English is not precise as we have no accents or additional letters like German in the written language to show how to pronounce words when reading so you have to learn by rote how to pronounce certain words. Take for example lead & lead - (leed & led), wallet & ballet is another good example. I'm Welsh so even though I come from a non Welsh speaking area there are a lot of Welsh words mixed in with our language and a similar thing occurs in the NE of England with Scandinavian influence due to the Viking invasion.

I'm sure the 1000+ Spaniards (of the 1588 Spanish Armada catastrophe) who washed ashore, and remained in Fastnet region of Ireland (Black Irish) and England, certainly made a significant Spanish language impact upon that region, as well. Moving progressively along.

I lived, and worked in both Germany and Denmark for a number of years. I managed to obtain a working proficiency level of both languages (despite the fact that many of my native, indigenous colleagues, actually spoke better English than myself). In an effort to not become overly verbose, regarding the off-topic minute historical details, English is considered to be, and remains a fundamentally Teutonic based language (according to the Anglo/Saxon natives, themselves), despite the 1066 Norman invasion.

Thus, the quite specific ethnic designation of the White_Anglo_Saxon_Protestant demographic. The Romance Languages based Catholicism, is not withstanding, within that particular reality. A totally different OP topic of debate!

Cheers

You're not averse to emphasising words are you, it just makes your words look jumbled?. WASP is not used in the UK it is an American expression and it is still 2/3rds Latin and it is not a minute detail no matter how many times you underline, make bold etc. You are the one Americanising UK English. As far the Angle heritage goes it is almost extinct in the UK, the British people are predominantly Saxon even amongst the so called Celtic nations although there are a lot of Norman descent amongst the Irish. I always remember an Irish colleague getting quite mad when an Englishman explained that his surname Burke was Norman not Irish.

54 yo American. Only ever heard or used the word wasp to describe a stinging insect, dont have a clue about your uneducated assumption of a word used in my country. Are you from the US?

[sirineou]

"Anyone, caring to share their considered opinion, as to the reasons why the Thais are not ready, and/or the aftermath probability factors, please do so? "

The rich Thai's are in charge. They are not going to become poor because the Thais are not ready. The aftermath will be that the rich Thais are still rich and the poor will still be poor. Not much downside for the Thai rich or poor.

To consider upside is not the Thai way.

"The aftermath will be that the rich Thais are still rich and the poor will still be poor. Not much downside for the Thai rich or poor."

That's a curious statement

There might not be a downside for the rich, and of course that's arguable, but I would say, remaining poor is certainly a huge downside for the poor, unless of course you consider being poor a desirable situation .

[TuskegeeBen]

the title of the OP and the Op do not reconcile and are two different subjects

Why is English the Universal Language of A.S.E.A.N?

because it the most common;y shared language

why are Thais unprepared.

this is your opinion, and it is arguable

Ahem! Absolutely correct: Very bright of you to notice. Wow!

That was the already pre-stated, dual-pronged intention of the OP.

As previously mentioned, the OP was not intended to attract the argumentative trollers,

who typically have nothing substantial to contribute. Obviously, you are no exception to the rule

Edited November 6, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[aronp1]

Global trade.

[TuskegeeBen]

Global trade.

Provincial manufacturing, job market (increased income tax base-paying) creation, and more regional, than global, export/import market trading.

Asians don't need America, or the EU anymore, for ANYTHING.

The Aussies are frantically lobbying in Singapore, to gain regional recognition as a SE Asian nation, and wisely so.

Edited November 6, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[smotherb]

My stepson has recently brought home an English text book from school for study. To my great surprise it is written in true English, not American. Americans masquerade by calling very many text books English when they are not written in English at all but American which is a bastardised version of the language much like pigeon English. If Americans want to produce language books please name them for what they are. They are not English but American. Both pronunciation and spelling are different. This is always going to be a problem for people trying to learn the language.

ASEAN have declared their official language to be English. I wonder if it really will be.

Ah, another Yank basher, croaking like the French lamenting the demise of their outmoded language. American English is not only spelled and pronounced differently, it also has different words for the same things --very similar to the varying dialects of other languages, even English English.

Consequently, the notion that American English is no more than a bastardized version of pigeon English is ludicrous. Note the American English spelling of “bastardize” with a “z” rather than the quaint English English spelling with an “s.” The American English version is a more accurate spelling, because it more closely reflects the correct pronunciation of the word. The word is not pronounced “bastardiced.”

Old English originated from Germanic-based languages; while Middle English was characterized by its injection of French. Modern English benefited from the renaissance, printing, and world trade. Late Modern English benefits from the expansion of trade and technology and has been greatly influenced by American English due to America’s dominance of business, technology, entertainment, and the internet.

Therefore, American English is the world standard. It is a living language which coins more current and future-oriented English words than the archaic English English. Quite simply, more English speakers communicate in American English than do in English English.

[NativeSon360]

For heaven sake, can you one-upmanship, game-playing trollers stay on topic, for a change.

The Op topic is an academic hypothesis only. It poses two (very reconcilable) topic questions ~

1.) Why is English the Universal Language of Asian, and

2.) what impact will the ASEAN transition have upon the average Thai person? Period.

You needn't be a rocket-scientist, to fathom that much.

READ the body context of the OP, then contribute a significant thought to either topic issue. Whew!

Edited November 6, 2015 by NativeSon360

[NativeSon360]

My stepson has recently brought home an English text book from school for study. To my great surprise it is written in true English, not American. Americans masquerade by calling very many text books English when they are not written in English at all but American which is a bastardised version of the language much like pigeon English. If Americans want to produce language books please name them for what they are. They are not English but American. Both pronunciation and spelling are different. This is always going to be a problem for people trying to learn the language.

ASEAN have declared their official language to be English. I wonder if it really will be.

Ah, another Yank basher, croaking like the French lamenting the demise of their outmoded language. American English is not only spelled and pronounced differently, it also has different words for the same things --very similar to the varying dialects of other languages, even English English.

Consequently, the notion that American English is no more than a bastardized version of pigeon English is ludicrous. Note the American English spelling of “bastardize” with a “z” rather than the quaint English English spelling with an “s.” The American English version is a more accurate spelling, because it more closely reflects the correct pronunciation of the word. The word is not pronounced “bastardiced.”

Old English originated from Germanic-based languages; while Middle English was characterized by its injection of French. Modern English benefited from the renaissance, printing, and world trade. Late Modern English benefits from the expansion of trade and technology and has been greatly influenced by American English due to America’s dominance of business, technology, entertainment, and the internet.

Therefore, American English is the world standard. It is a living language which coins more current and future-oriented English words than the archaic English English. Quite simply, more English speakers communicate in American English than do in English English.

Great post, and point excellently made, smotherb. But, sometimes its better to ignore, and not bother to dignify that typical islander claptrap, spewd from the keyboard of an obvious dunce, with a response..

The British, themselves, don't even speak the same English, that was spoken 50-years ago. That bloke couldn't even spell the word "pigeon" correctly. Consider the source.

I'm sure you'll agree. Again, thanks for contributing, and sharing your thoughts on the topic. Cheers!

Edited November 6, 2015 by NativeSon360

[2fishin2]

Would you rather have Chinese or Japanese as the language of choice?

[chas39]

I can understand why English has been accepted as the universal language of ASEAN.

It was honed over many years to be heard above the sound of musket fire and the cries of dying foreigners.

[shaggy851]

English and chinese are pathways to well paying jobs an essential minimum requirement. Best thais learn this and start to invest in some knowledge instead of get rich quick dreams and lady bars. The internet is here and its cheap its not only for facebook and line. In 5 minutes i could show a thai an affordable new career path that would be better paying or at least more regular income but i fear that some dont have the attention span to see it through even if id be doing the hard work for them.