David Cameron vows to seize control of Britain's borders as he sets out his demands for EU reform

[Brit_Doggie]

To late love Enoch.

[baboon]

Just like to know who these posters that hate DC so much would like to see as PM, Mr Corbyn perhaps?, or maybe Red Ed would have done a better job? or do they long for the days of Harold Wilson

You really don't seem to get it do you?

I don't see much here in the way of posts from people claiming to hate David Cameron - this is not about a personality or affability contest anyway. What is seen here are posts from people who hate to see what has become of the UK over the past 5 years of a Tory government presided over by DC.

Your reference to us hankering for the days of Harold Wilson are frankly odd, and indicate an ignorance of UK political history. May I remind you that Harold Wilson presided over a Labour Government that campaigned heavily in the referendum of 1975 for a yes vote to stay in the EU..

That's right all the problems just started over the last 5 years? nothing to do with the 13 years of Labour that opened all the doors to immigration and Labour that presided over the slowest growth for 50 years

Labours biggest achievement in Europe was to give away half our rebate, won by Thatcher 10 billion or near enough

Your blaming DC , I am defending him, for the problems he inherited which take more that 5 years

He has had more than 5 years.

[Briggsy]

David Cameron knows exactly how to grandstand to his party base.

He needs to use these lines, straight from UKIP, as they are the Tory's biggest threat now.

He regularly fails to deliver on immigration but strangely never seems to get much flack for the broken promises.

[up2u2]

Hard to believe people get sucked into this 'dog whistle' politicking. 'Here boy, here boy'. This rhetoric just plays to a small vocal xenophobic racist minority within a society. By any measure immigration enriches a Nation both economically and culturally. In any community black, white or brindle you are always going to have a very small minority of bad'ens that is why you have a police service. Total storm in a teacup.

[baboon]

Hard to believe people get sucked into this 'dog whistle' politicking. 'Here boy, here boy'. This rhetoric just plays to a small vocal xenophobic racist minority within a society. By any measure immigration enriches a Nation both economically and culturally. In any community black, white or brindle you are always going to have a very small minority of bad'ens that is why you have a police service. Total storm in a teacup.

Fine. Then let the political parties campaign on the strength of more and more immigration and see how small the rascist xenophobic minority are when it comes to vote counting time.

[Richard W]

I am British, and the progressive loss of rights rankles. In 2006, my British-born daughter was stripped of the right to remain British. Treasury counsel have been known to argue that the law means what it says, despite Blair's government saying the power to deprive dual nationals of British citizens would be used far more sparingly than its wording implies. There is a frightening off-the-cuff statement made by Peter Hain when in government that the government should consider extending the policy of 'removing foreign criminals' to dual nationals. Slightly reassuringly, there's been no repetition of this from government itself, and judges recall the explanation given when the deprivation power was granted.

Now it appears that if the UK stays within the EU, I will lose the freedom of movement within the EU - if I wish to move to the Netherlands with my wife, my wife will have to demonstrate the ability to speak Dutch. I will thus lose one of my rights as an EU citizen. Now, it's possible that the government merely intends to return matters to the aberrant Akrich ruling - free movement will only apply to family members once they have been accepted by a member state.

However, the reaction to the second McCarthy case augurs ill, even though this is not a case where, in general, a British citizen has fewer rights than any other EU citizen. (In principle, it is - the British citizen has to have exercised the right of freedom of movement, rather than to have been admitted to the other EU country on some other basis.) The British government had refused to accept Spanish documentation that Mrs McCarthy was present in Spain as a family member of an EU national - they insisted on regularly reviewing the evidence themselves, requiring her to present herself in Madrid. The way that having to accept Spanish documentation was presented as a loss of British control bodes ill. In general, it can be quite stressful for a Briton to take his visa national wife on a visit to the UK, but I strongly suspect that if Cameron understands what he is asking for and gets it, Mrs McCarthy will have to apply for a visitor visa each time. Likewise, for a Briton to move from Germany to Britain with his foreign family members, I fear he will have to apply for settlement visas for them. Stepchildren with a decent biological father must be abandoned.

The massive EU immigration is a foreseeable consequence of including less prosperous countries. British governments and British parliaments have agreed to this expansion - they had the right of veto.

[bartender100]

Just like to know who these posters that hate DC so much would like to see as PM, Mr Corbyn perhaps?, or maybe Red Ed would have done a better job? or do they long for the days of Harold Wilson

You really don't seem to get it do you?

I don't see much here in the way of posts from people claiming to hate David Cameron - this is not about a personality or affability contest anyway. What is seen here are posts from people who hate to see what has become of the UK over the past 5 years of a Tory government presided over by DC.

Your reference to us hankering for the days of Harold Wilson are frankly odd, and indicate an ignorance of UK political history. May I remind you that Harold Wilson presided over a Labour Government that campaigned heavily in the referendum of 1975 for a yes vote to stay in the EU..

That's right all the problems just started over the last 5 years? nothing to do with the 13 years of Labour that opened all the doors to immigration and Labour that presided over the slowest growth for 50 years

Labours biggest achievement in Europe was to give away half our rebate, won by Thatcher 10 billion or near enough

Your blaming DC , I am defending him, for the problems he inherited which take more that 5 years

He has had more than 5 years.

May 10th 2010, I make that 5 years 6 months

[Shadychris]

Hard to believe people get sucked into this 'dog whistle' politicking. 'Here boy, here boy'. This rhetoric just plays to a small vocal xenophobic racist minority within a society. By any measure immigration enriches a Nation both economically and culturally. In any community black, white or brindle you are always going to have a very small minority of bad'ens that is why you have a police service. Total storm in a teacup.

Fine. Then let the political parties campaign on the strength of more and more immigration and see how small the rascist xenophobic minority are when it comes to vote counting time.

The labelling of anyone who expresses any discontent with the current unsustainable numbers of immigrants as 'xenophobic racists' is typical of the Guardianista Europhiles, who actually cannot offer any other defence fro their pro EU stance than mudslinging and name calling.

There are a couple of posters here complaining that should the UK pull out of the EU they will lose some of their rights of freedom of travel with their non-UK spouses. Well sorry to say but they are actually the very small minority, The very large majority couldn't give a toss about not being able to freely travel within Europe, and would much prefer to see some sanity returned to border controls. A solution to this sorry mess is never going to make everyone happy and there will be some who are placed in a worse situation - that's life.

I'm wondering if now that DC has done a complete about face since the GE, and is now following the UKIP line and threatening to leave the EU if his demands are not met, whether he and his supporters will also be labelled xenophobic racists....

[Richard W]

There are a couple of posters here complaining that should the UK pull out of the EU they will lose some of their rights of freedom of travel with their non-UK spouses.

No!

The complaint is that if the UK stays in the EU, we seem set to lose our right to relocate in the EU with our families, and in particular the right to move back to the UK.

If the UK leaves the EEA, then Britons will have no more rights in the EU than in Thailand. The biggest effect is likely to be on those who would otherwise have retired to Spain. I don't know whether those who have already retired to Spain will be expelled, or whether 'permanent' residence acquired by Britons under EU rules will remain valid. It may well hinge on the treatment of Spaniards living in the UK, whom I expect to be treated under the same rules as EU Eastern Europeans.

[nontabury]

The French president has now ordered the closing of the French border,a bit late I think.

The same will soon be said of Cameron.

[Richard W]

The French president has now ordered the closing of the French border,a bit late I think.

The same will soon be said of Cameron.

A 'closed' French border is pretty much the same as an 'open' British border. The only difference is that some of the methods of exiting France are restricted or disallowed, but trains, airlines and even ferries are operating as normal. The British view that manned internal borders were useful appears to be vindicated. Incidentally, you are probably aware that there are patrols that weakly implement the Schengen-like Irish border.

Update: Trans-border grocery shopping trips are unaffected near Schengen (source pprune!), so the 'closure' is clearly not being applied uniformly.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Richard W