Would you still come to Thailand to Live Today?

[GAZZPA]

I'm not ramming anything down anyone's throat. Just expressing my opinion, like everyone else on the forum.

Clearly my opinion differs from yours. That's ok. We're both allowed one.

Again, you try and belittle me because of this. Why?

Don't see any belittling going on.

I gave you my opinion and you told me i was wrong.

Anyway, there are better places to live in the world that have great weather, a low cost of living and none of the cultural BS, corruption and bureaucracy. But if you like it here and you have found your nirvana well go and fill yer boots.

I dont hate it here, there are also worse places but i dont expect i will be here forever.

No offence intended. I don't plan to be here forever either. The world's too big for that. But for now, I'm enjoying it.

Fair enough and good luck to you fella.

[SoiBiker]

I'm not ramming anything down anyone's throat. Just expressing my opinion, like everyone else on the forum.

Clearly my opinion differs from yours. That's ok. We're both allowed one.

Again, you try and belittle me because of this. Why?

Don't see any belittling going on.

I gave you my opinion and you told me i was wrong.

Anyway, there are better places to live in the world that have great weather, a low cost of living and none of the cultural BS, corruption and bureaucracy. But if you like it here and you have found your nirvana well go and fill yer boots.

I dont hate it here, there are also worse places but i dont expect i will be here forever.

No offence intended. I don't plan to be here forever either. The world's too big for that. But for now, I'm enjoying it.

Fair enough and good luck to you fella.

You too!

[MadMuhummad]

I think the only thing that keeps people here to be brutally honest is the weather and the low cost of living.

Then you'd be wrong. That might be all you can find to like about the place, but you don't speak for the rest of us.

Thai weather is the only thing i really hate!

Brutally honest? It sounds a bit narrow minded man.

Weather, great bars, food, freedom (no nanny states here), beautiful beaches, cheap utilities, cheap rent, some super fun markets/festivals, perfect location to travel the world..... the list goes on....

why am I narrow minded? Because I dont agree with your assessment of this country?

All of the things you list are not unique to Thailand and there are plenty of downsides.

If you are happy here then good for you, for me I know there is better.

I was saying narrow minded, in as polite a way as possible, because you were over generalizing with your statement. Nothing less, nothing more. Not trying to start an argument with you.

[MadMuhummad]

Yes, I would. I'm under 50.

Glad to hear it, did the METV not affect you at all? Maybe you go back to the UK every so often

and the METV suits you.

I'm not on a tourist visa - I live here.

I know there are ways for expats, especially under fifties, to live here all the time ie, working here, the elite visa etc.

It is nice to see you are happy here, so am I. The new visa rules don't affect me, but I think the Thai government is being very unfair on some expats.

Visa in Thailand is much easier to obtain and much cheaper than any other country in Asia.

One year Visa in Philippine is 10 time more expensive,in Cambodia few times.

In Vietnam almost imposibble get long term Visa.Same in Lao if you are not married.

In India is incredible expensive,same in China and you need a lot paperwork as well!

Retirement Visa is very easy to get here,same as marriage Visa(little a bit more hassle,but easy)!

All Visas are VERY CHEAP as well!

PI 12 month visa if married to Pinay. Easy peasy ?

[MadMuhummad]

Think my dear you have missed the point the question is Would you still come to Thailand to live today nothing about visas or being put off by them. Just "Would you still come to Thailand to live today

With the first line of the OP being

I wouldn't, because Thailand would not welcome me. I am not under fifty, but I sympathise with those who are and would like to come to Thailand to live.

So clearly meaning its less easy to make a long stay..

I came here at 28.. Have no interest or need to work here.. And have spent god knows how many millions here in that time.. Multiple wives.. Land.. Moer cars and bikes and toys than I can count.. God knows.. >2 mil a year for much of it.. I know 10s.. into perhaps 100s of oil guys who have dumped similar amounts into the place..

Now.. Thailand is quite within its rights to say "sorry.. we dont want younger single guys living here and spending 200k a month".. Thats their call.. But thats direct foreign exchange.. Thats money imported from outside the country, dumped here.. Thats a lot more valuable than 200k spent inter economy.. They want it to be hard to spend that here, to need to grovel and kowtow to every grumpy immigration officer manning a desk spouting rules he makes up or gets wrong according to the book half the time.. Like I say fine.. But dont think that money doesnt have an economic impact.. Dont think the multi millions dumped into Phuket, Samui, Hua Hin etc by wealthy long stayers doesnt keep a large chunk of the economys of those places turning. If they dont want it, plenty of other places do.

Lets see how that Chinese tourism works out for the actual locals shall we ??

Why is it that you guys hold failed marriages, lost houses, cars and motorbikes as a badge of honour that the country is lucky to have benefited from your loss?

It seems to be a recurring theme with the more experienced (bitter and twisted) of us.

That and you keep spouting about grumpy officials etc. This is a common issue anywhere in the world. You think they should kiss your arse because you've been robbed b a couple of poorly chosen spouses?

Come on, you're smarter than that.

The spending of the 23+ million tourists every year would be far greater than the sum of expat spending by far.

Edited November 19, 2015 by MadMuhummad

[MadMuhummad]

Re-read my post. Where did I mention entrepreneurial? I said they have a work permit and visa. Think you are responding to the wrong person.OB when you replied to this ??

Still under 40. Came at 29. Would defo come today all over again. Many more opportunities here now. The dynamics have changed too. It's no longer just a place old men come to hang out with / sleep with hookers. Every major city is thriving with young westerners doing all sorts of wonderful, entrepreneurial things, many with other young Thais too. That's a key difference I've notice in the last 7 years middle class Thais and young westerners forming friendship groups and mixing on an equal level. There's loads going on in terms of art, music, hollistic health and online ventures.

Good lord! Someone that actually lives in the same Thailand I do, rather than the one that everyone on here seems to talk about.

I never said you did,But you seem to put down old guys living here legallyAnd praise young guys doing 'entrepreneurial things' .... without a Work Permit or legal VISA.

All the young people I know working here have a work permit and visa. I think you move in different circles. Perhaps older non professional ones?OB

When you replied to this..

I don't see the word entrepreneurial in my response.Try reading again?OB

your aware its a conversation right ?? Your aware that when one person makes a nonsense claim.. Which is then countered by others, and you back up that persons claim with "every one of those I know has the legal paperwork" and a superior "you just move in different circles" it then makes the point your agreeing with said person in the conversation ?? Its a thread.. You had a point.. Not just posting tourettes.. Either you were replying to the claim that was quoted or the post is irrelevant. I maintain.. There is no 'thriving communities of westerners legally being wonderful entrepreneurs in every major city' in Thailand.. No matter what 'circles' anyone purports to hang out in.. Its a nonsense statement and total falsehood. Agreeing with it is equally dumb.

I have a limited circle of friends due to my tourist status ATM but of my 2 western friends I have, 1 BKK and 1 Pattaya, the one in BKK is just that, an entrepreneur. Employs 50+ Thais and is has built a now global company.

The other is in the middle of reskilling and will be heading down a similar track.

These are my 2 western friends I have in Thailand right now so I guess that's 100% of foreigners I know which can be referred to as such.

And they do move in circles of similarly minded, employed foreigners and Thais.

Edited November 19, 2015 by MadMuhummad

[GAZZPA]

I think the only thing that keeps people here to be brutally honest is the weather and the low cost of living.

Then you'd be wrong. That might be all you can find to like about the place, but you don't speak for the rest of us.

Thai weather is the only thing i really hate!

Brutally honest? It sounds a bit narrow minded man.

Weather, great bars, food, freedom (no nanny states here), beautiful beaches, cheap utilities, cheap rent, some super fun markets/festivals, perfect location to travel the world..... the list goes on....

why am I narrow minded? Because I dont agree with your assessment of this country?

All of the things you list are not unique to Thailand and there are plenty of downsides.

If you are happy here then good for you, for me I know there is better.

I was saying narrow minded, in as polite a way as possible, because you were over generalizing with your statement. Nothing less, nothing more. Not trying to start an argument with you.

Oh, that's ok then. For a second there I thought you were calling me narrow minded.

[HooHaa]

Glad to hear it, did the METV not affect you at all? Maybe you go back to the UK every so often

and the METV suits you.

I'm not on a tourist visa - I live here.

I know there are ways for expats, especially under fifties, to live here all the time ie, working here, the elite visa etc.

It is nice to see you are happy here, so am I. The new visa rules don't affect me, but I think the Thai government is being very unfair on some expats.

I think tourist visas should be for tourists, not a loophole for those who have no other legitimate basis to stay here long term.

i dont know of anyone who has had a legitimate reason to be here long term having visa issues.

i would say the new tourist visa is a bold stroke, requiring tourists to go home to renew thereby proving they are tourists.

Edited November 20, 2015 by HooHaa

[jacky54]

No way, exchange rate was 73 to the pound when I came here, there was no illegal military junta in power and the entertainment scene was far better. It's become rather a miserable frightened little country.

[NoshowJones]

But HooHaa, forget about tourists for a minute, the main thing I'm on about is expats who come to Thailand on holiday, love it,

and decide they want to stay here.

Think about these people who are over fifty, and don't want to get married to start with, some will say that if they cannot afford

800.000 Bt in their bank account for retirement extensions, they can't afford to live in Thailand. That is rubbish, how many working class people in the

UK have about 15000 GBP in their bank account? They are too busy paying expensive heating bills, council tax etc,etc. to save that amount of money.

Some people, both over and under fifty, can live quite easily in Thailand, on about 30.000 Bt per month, there is the state pension, private pensions, rental from

properties etc,etc. They can rent a cheap apartment, even afford to drink some days, and live quite comfortably.

These people cannot live comfortably in the UK, but can easily do that in Thailand, while contributing to the economy.

Thailand needs to find a way of catering for them, and giving them the chance to live here.

[SoiBiker]

Why do you think people should have the right to live here just because they want to?

[MadMuhummad]

^^^^^^^^Thus. Thailand don't owe anyone shit to be blunt. Just the same as people in Europe/oz/US are complain about immigrants at the moment. I'm sure the Syrians are feeling the same way about Germany, UK, France......

Edited November 20, 2015 by MadMuhummad

[NoshowJones]

Why do you think people should have the right to live here just because they want to?

Why should people not be able to come here and live because they want to if they are going to be contributing to the economy?

[fang37]

Of course, I would come back.

To me, a PITA is the Americanism of language eg restroom.

Thankfully, we drive on LHS - a change to RHS in the wind?

[MaeJoMTB]

Why do you think people should have the right to live here just because they want to?

Why do you think people like you should be allowed in?

Me, I've contributed one Thai citizen, two high school educations, and am in the process of contributing two university degrees.

What have you and your foreign wife contributed?

[SoiBiker]

Why do you think people should have the right to live here just because they want to?

Why do you think people like you should be allowed in?

Me, I've contributed one Thai citizen, two high school educations, and am in the process of contributing two university degrees.

What have you and your foreign wife contributed?

I don't think I 'should' be allowed in. But I'm grateful that I am. Many foreigners seem to have a sense of entitlement about living here.

[thaiduncankk]

Why do you think people should have the right to live here just because they want to?

Why do you think people like you should be allowed in?

Me, I've contributed one Thai citizen, two high school educations, and am in the process of contributing two university degrees.

What have you and your foreign wife contributed?

Taxi fares.

[GAZZPA]

Things I like about Thailand. My buddy lives there, my dentist is there, he's a good dude so I don't change dentists. I spent 5 yrs visiting Thailand and it just got worse every time. Traffic police checkpoints, rude unhelpful shop girls, little English spoken and very few smiles. I went to the Philippines once and never looked back. Every shop and restaurant you go into a person, 99% of the time younger fake says to you in perfect English. Welcome sir, can I help you sir? I'm talking 99.9% of the time. When I go to most Thai shops all I see is a girl in a chair staring at her smart phone then either unwilling or unable to help you due to poor people skills or poor English skills. I suspect many farangs who are enamored with Thailand have never set foot in the Philippines. Okay let the flaming begin

Your post makes a lot of sense, but you cannot complain about Thais English skills, this is their country.

When everyone who finishes High School receives a diploma stating they 'passed' the English proficiency course, you would except most of these would, at least, have some grasp of the English language ?

I passed German & Indonesian in high school and to this day I can't remember more than hello in both languages so I think your point is harsh and irrelevant

You probably left school a long long time ago.

I guess. Just on 20 years but to be entirely honest I did what I had to do to gain 'proficiency' and pass so I could complete high school.

I would have the same vocabulary I do now.

Had those languages offered an opportunity for better job prospects later in life, maybe you would have practiced them more, or even taken them to another level ?

Once Thais get their 'diploma', for quite a lot of them, that's as good as it gets.

Disagree with you on this one. The ASEAN trading agreement has been on the table for many a year and Thailand is eyeing itself as the "leading light" and yet it has done very little to improve the English language skills of its students. Remember the chosen language for the Asean business model is English. (and I strongly suspect Thailand was there when this was agreed)

So, yes prospects are better for Thailand if its citizens are proficient in English.

In my office only my team (sales team) speak fluent English (some better then others), the rest of the office can hardly speak a word. This makes it more then difficult as the logistics team (for example) dont speak English and yet all of our customers (from Europe, India, Australia, New Zealand etc) use English as their business language. My team virtually doubles as a translation team as much as a Sales team.

Very poor and not good for when the Asean really kicks off next year.

[GAZZPA]

^^^^^^^^Thus. Thailand don't owe anyone shit to be blunt. Just the same as people in Europe/oz/US are complain about immigrants at the moment. I'm sure the Syrians are feeling the same way about Germany, UK, France......

Woooo, you're getting a bit too political there fella.

The topic is about living in Thailand today not global immigration issues (that right now is a horrible subject). I do agree that Thai's don't owe anyone anything but remember that the majority of money here has come from foreign countries and the economy today is still built heavily on exports, foreign investment and tourism. Local Thais are certainly not yet wealthy enough to drive their own economy with domestic consumption.

So, yes they don't owe anyone anything but you would think that their policies would welcome foreigners brining in regular money from overseas (just like the retired), and that they would welcome people living here (as long as they don't break the rules),,, do you not think so?

[MadMuhummad]

While distasteful, the current global issue with immigration is very relevant to replies to this topic. A number of people who believe another county 'owes' tham something, for whatever reason, and expects them to change or relax their laws to accomodate them.

Globally, all industrialised nations rely on exports and foreign investment and I don't deny that Thailand benefits from this in a large way.

From my experiences I've heard no complaints from my countryman who is running a successful growing business doing just that. Further he has had zero issues regarding immigration, work permits and dealing with officialdom for these.

My post is more directed toward the constant grumbling of the, predominantly older, expat crew who think that Thailand should just swing the door open (Metaphorically) and welcome them with open arms because they will 'spend a millions of ฿' by either living here, knocking up a local, buying a house and vehicle or a combination of all 3.

The total contribution of Travel & Tourism to GDP was THB2,345.1bn (19.3% of GDP) in 2014, and is forecast to rise by 3.2% in 2015

Now, and I'm not trying to be facetious, these numbers tell a whole different story to the usual 'Thailand needs us' to survive or 'they should welcome our money'.

As for breaking the rules, well, with the misuse of tourist visas and visa runs they really aren't showing this are they haha.

I'm by no way trying to belittle anyone or start an argument but tourism (of which a huge number of expats, if not all, are considered as) represents such a small Thailands GDP why would they reduce the requirements for long stays at the risk of letting more undesirables in?

Now, someone will say 'but look at erawan, that's not working'. I sure there'd be far more problems if they relaxed the immi laws.

This is all just my opinion obviously and it invariably differs quite a lot from others. I have a optimistic outlook on life, I'm still considerably young and, most importantly, I have a far different attitude since my life was al,oat taken from me. I guess I just don't sweat the small stuff and I'm just thankful I'm here to be able to experience and achieve the things that I can.

[pattayahenry]

I'd be in South America or the Philippines.

Maybe France or Spain.

Anywhere with good cycling weather would do.

Thailand has nothing special ...... temples and hookers.

One you've done a dozen, you've done them all.

"Thailand has nothing special ...... temples and hookers."

why are you here, i wonder, if you are so small-minded?

thailand has a fascinating culture, a very beautiful language , fantastic beaches, breathtaking nationalparks, the best food in the world, smiling people everywhere, very good infrastructure, good medical care, and all that for a fraction of the price in cold western countries.

[SiSePuede419]

"Thailand has nothing special..."

Yeah well, compared to America, even Europe has no wilderness areas that are truly "wilderness".

Most people from Europe have never set foot in a wilderness, nor even know what the definition of wilderness is "No visible evidence of human impact".

I doubt the fact that America is the #1 leader in the world of wilderness preservation hardly changes their opinion of their urban jungle they grew up in, 555

[Balance]

No, I would have retired in the American Virgin Islands, probably St. Croix. Reasons: While I continue to try to understand Thai culture, it is rarely reciprocated; there is no health care insurance that is affordable and/or covers anything costing over 150,000 TB; I lived through the military take over of Ethiopia in 1976 when the army was killing students on the strudents on the streets. I believe that that there is a chance that September,1973 could be repeated.

But, I have here, comfortable, have a better relationship with my Thai wife than my past 2 American wives; I do have Medicare in the U.S. and can afford to go back for treatment when it is necessary, which is virtually at no cost to me beyond $110 a month for Part B and minimal co-pays. I carry accident insurance here as well as health that I got before I was 70. As far as the political situation goes there are choices to be made if it worsens, but for now, mai bpen rai.

[MaeJoMTB]

I'd be in South America or the Philippines.

Maybe France or Spain.

Anywhere with good cycling weather would do.

Thailand has nothing special ...... temples and hookers.

One you've done a dozen, you've done them all.

"Thailand has nothing special ...... temples and hookers."

why are you here, i wonder, if you are so small-minded?

thailand has a fascinating culture, a very beautiful language , fantastic beaches, breathtaking nationalparks, the best food in the world, smiling people everywhere, very good infrastructure, good medical care, and all that for a fraction of the price in cold western countries.

I'm here because I like hookers ..........

Culture = greed, language = err, which one?, beaches = dirty, sea = sewage, national parks 10x price + litter, food = loaded with MSG, smiling = false smiles

Spain, South of France, Portugal beat Thailand on every point you raised.

Culture is better and more diverse, languages are easier and consistent throughout each country, beaches are cleaner, sea is WAY better, parks are litter free at no charge, food is higher quality and more diverse, when they smile, they mean it. ........ hookers aren't so widespread though.

[MadMuhummad]

Hey mate, how culture equals greed is a widely different experience than my. I can speak the language in basic form, I'm sure I'll be conversational eventually. I can read and write.

As for beaches. Have you sampled any of the non tourist areas? Try somewhere like Rayong and tell me that it ain't just gorgeous! I'll concede on Pattaya, maybe Phuket.

Last time I went to a national park was Khao Kho and it was beautiful! Litter free, no entry. The tourist areas like Chiangmai Mai are how you describe.

Beautiful, freshly cooked Thai food is outstanding!! Especially, once again, away from the tourist areas. I love hot and spicy and I'm literally addicted to it!

Everything you've described negatively is all tourist area-centric. These areas are dirty, ocean not so clean, food not so great but once you venture away from theses it's a whole new world.

Thailand is much more than Pattaya, BKK, Chiang Mai, Phuket etc. I'm sure you've experienced far more than just those places....

Edited November 21, 2015 by MadMuhummad

[stander]

But HooHaa, forget about tourists for a minute, the main thing I'm on about is expats who come to Thailand on holiday, love it,

and decide they want to stay here.

Think about these people who are over fifty, and don't want to get married to start with, some will say that if they cannot afford

800.000 Bt in their bank account for retirement extensions, they can't afford to live in Thailand. That is rubbish, how many working class people in the

UK have about 15000 GBP in their bank account? They are too busy paying expensive heating bills, council tax etc,etc. to save that amount of money.

Some people, both over and under fifty, can live quite easily in Thailand, on about 30.000 Bt per month, there is the state pension, private pensions, rental from

properties etc,etc. They can rent a cheap apartment, even afford to drink some days, and live quite comfortably.

These people cannot live comfortably in the UK, but can easily do that in Thailand, while contributing to the economy.

Thailand needs to find a way of catering for them, and giving them the chance to live here.

Instead of the 800,000Baht and 400,000Baht, would it not be better if they were to issue a visa for a more permanent type of stay which required the applicant to deposit 500,000Baht to cover any medical type emergencies,and it would be fully refunded on departure.

[NoshowJones]

But HooHaa, forget about tourists for a minute, the main thing I'm on about is expats who come to Thailand on holiday, love it,

and decide they want to stay here.

Think about these people who are over fifty, and don't want to get married to start with, some will say that if they cannot afford

800.000 Bt in their bank account for retirement extensions, they can't afford to live in Thailand. That is rubbish, how many working class people in the

UK have about 15000 GBP in their bank account? They are too busy paying expensive heating bills, council tax etc,etc. to save that amount of money.

Some people, both over and under fifty, can live quite easily in Thailand, on about 30.000 Bt per month, there is the state pension, private pensions, rental from

properties etc,etc. They can rent a cheap apartment, even afford to drink some days, and live quite comfortably.

These people cannot live comfortably in the UK, but can easily do that in Thailand, while contributing to the economy.

Thailand needs to find a way of catering for them, and giving them the chance to live here.

Instead of the 800,000Baht and 400,000Baht, would it not be better if they were to issue a visa for a more permanent type of stay which required the applicant to deposit 500,000Baht to cover any medical type emergencies,and it would be fully refunded on departure.

That's about the best idea concerning Immigration in Thailand that I have seen in this forum.

But it is far too sensible for the Immigration authorities.

[SiSePuede419]

"Thailand is much more than Pattaya, BKK, Chiang Mai, Phuket etc.'im sure you've experienced far more than just those places...."

No, most of the people who come here to "live" are not very bright. They make a beeline for the tourist traps. They're not adventurous and must have inferior versions of the same food they ate back home. They only hang out with other foreigners. They don't bother to learn how to read or write Thai. They can barely speak it. They judge all Thai women based on the whores they meet and marry. They ride around with no helmets on motorbikes. They rent jetskis on polluted, noisy beaches. And then they complain about Thailand, not taking any responsibility for their own voluntary choices.

Sound about right?

555

[SoiBiker]

"Thailand is much more than Pattaya, BKK, Chiang Mai, Phuket etc.'im sure you've experienced far more than just those places...."

No, most of the people who come here to "live" are not very bright. They make a beeline for the tourist traps. They're not adventurous and must have inferior versions of the same food they ate back home. They only hang out with other foreigners. They don't bother to learn how to read or write Thai. They can barely speak it. They judge all Thai women based on the whores they meet and marry. They ride around with no helmets on motorbikes. They rent jetskis on polluted, noisy beaches. And then they complain about Thailand, not taking any responsibility for their own voluntary choices.

Sound about right?

555

I wish I could disagree. But that does seem about right for a lot of expats unfortunately.

[MadMuhummad]

"Thailand is much more than Pattaya, BKK, Chiang Mai, Phuket etc.'im sure you've experienced far more than just those places...."

No, most of the people who come here to "live" are not very bright. They make a beeline for the tourist traps. They're not adventurous and must have inferior versions of the same food they ate back home. They only hang out with other foreigners. They don't bother to learn how to read or write Thai. They can barely speak it. They judge all Thai women based on the whores they meet and marry. They ride around with no helmets on motorbikes. They rent jetskis on polluted, noisy beaches. And then they complain about Thailand, not taking any responsibility for their own voluntary choices.

Sound about right?

555

Absolutely! I couldn't have said it better! A+ my friend