Visa - US Visit for Wife and Kids: All the Odds Against Us?

[DocScylla]

I'm familiar with this site and the reason I'm posting is because I know there are many knowledgeable people who are very generous with their time and who go out of their way to give helpful advice and information. However, I know there is also a contingent who may be equally knowledgeable posters that are seemingly eager to indulge in some elitism and scorn for people deemed of a lower status (a fairly natural if not very admirable human tendency). Because I need the help so badly, I'm willing to open myself up to that in hopes of getting some sort of assistance...

I am the lowest of the low. Not one of the expats with a nice package at a multinational, nor a holder of a fat bank account and other substantial assets. Not even a reasonably well paid teacher at an international school. I am the loathsome and much reviled English teacher with no degree and no work permit. For some of you, there will be no need to read further: you can start your insults now or stop reading. For any that can manage to overlook my disreputable and even contemptible status, I and my entire family would be sincerely grateful for any and all advice you can offer.

My stepfather has passed away. It is necessary that my wife and I accelerate our plans to visit the US, with our children. We have absolutely no intention of staying there - it is in fact not at all what we want and not even feasible if it were - but we have zero means by which to lend credence to that claim. Our disadvantages are, I should think, massive and numerous:

1) My wife has no assets here and no job.

2) As previously stated, I have no assets and no legal work.

3) We need to go in March of 2016.

In our favor, however slight, are I hope the following:

1) We have been together for decades and legally married for over 8 years.

2) We have 2 children.

3) We have a letter of support from my mother.

There it is. Do your worst. I wont engage in any acrimonious exchanges so while everyone is obviously free to insult and deride as much as they like, there wont be much point. I do hope that some folks might be so decent as to offer a bit of insight and I sincerely thank in advance, anyone that does. Have we got a shot? Any words of wisdom?

Edited November 19, 2015 by DocScylla

[gk10002000]

How exactly will you travel and on what visas would you re-enter Thailand under? You said you are married. Do you have extension based on marriage? You also say you work without a permit. That sounds illegal. In addition, since you are working without a work permit, how are you getting paid? If you can't show any Thailand income source, I think the USA authorities would be very hesitant to believe that you really intend to return to Thailand, since to them you don't have a job or any visible means to support the family. Basically, your post seems like a troll post, as you know all the possibilities. The outcome will be entirely up to the US authorities judgment. And without any assets, how the heck would you even prove any sort of sufficiency for your wife and kids while touristing the USA?

[DocScylla]

- I am all too aware, as is perhaps evident from my own post, of the obstacles we face and the distasteful aspects of my situation.

- I do have an extension based on marriage.

- I am getting paid by two different rather prominent employers with wages paid directly into an account in my name (as is the case with many others in very similar or identical circumstances. I know what a controversial topic that is, and I am aware of the ethical arguments and principles on which people base their objections, but no doubt you'll agree that this is not the place to debate it even were I so inclined).

- I have sufficient funds to pay our way while visiting. (I also have people in the US willing to pay our way, if that's what I wanted).

- I am not so ignorant or unintelligent as to not be aware that it is up to the judgment of the US authorities. And as can be inferred from reference to disadvantages, I recognize the massive credibility deficit.

Not a troll post. Very serious and deeply important request for help. but thanks anyway...

Edited November 19, 2015 by DocScylla

[taxout]

Am I reading between the lines correctly: that you are a U.S. citizen, that your children are U.S. citizens, and that the only issue is an American visa for your Thai-citizen wife so she can accompany you and your children on a visit to the U.S.?

Edited November 19, 2015 by taxout

[DocScylla]

Am I reading between the lines correctly: that you are a U.S. citizen, that your children are U.S. citizens, and that the only issue is an American visa for your Thai-citizen wife so she can accompany you and your children on a visit to the U.S.?

No, unfortunately that's not quit correct. We had originally thought that would be the situation but we have not yet attained US passports for our kids and neither time nor finances make that feasible before the proposed trip. My kids are Thai passport holders. They are however, my kids with my name on the birth certificates.

Thanks for asking (and sparing me a scolding. So far ).

[taxout]

But if your children are eligible for U.S. passports, they are U.S. citizens regardless whether they've actually been issued U.S. passports.

And the State Department will not place a visa in a foreign passport held by a U.S. citizen, at least not knowingly.

Thus in the case of your children you have no alternative but to acquire their U.S. passports.

[Langsuan Man]

Seems to me you have no real options, since if i were the Consular Officer assigned to the application for your family I wouldn't even bother asking them to come in for an interview

Other than being a US citizen you have not cited one reason for an official to believe that they will return to Thailand after your "vacation"

The main criteria is what proof is there that your Thai "dependents" will return to Thailand. So far I don't see anything that would show an intend to return to Thailand, other than your word

So in answer to your question: All the Odds Against Us

is somewhere between slim and none

[AaronLV]

Am I reading between the lines correctly: that you are a U.S. citizen, that your children are U.S. citizens, and that the only issue is an American visa for your Thai-citizen wife so she can accompany you and your children on a visit to the U.S.?

No, unfortunately that's not quit correct. We had originally thought that would be the situation but we have not yet attained US passports for our kids and neither time nor finances make that feasible before the proposed trip. My kids are Thai passport holders. They are however, my kids with my name on the birth certificates.

Thanks for asking (and sparing me a scolding. So far ).

If you don't have the finances to get the kids US passport how are you going to pay the Visa fee?

CRBA & Passport : 205 USD

Visa Fee: 160

Difference of 45 dollars, if you can't afford an additional 90 dollars, I think the trip to the US is out of the question.

You have some things in your favor for the length of time you are together, but your income will probably be the big issue since really there is no reason to come back to Thailand, as you and your wife working in the US would probably be more at Min wage then based on what you have written here. You have to convince the Officer that you are coming back, and just looking at what you wrote there is no compelling reason to return. Letter of support from your mother will have no bearing, as it is about your wife's reason to return.

[JLCrab]

In post #1 it says that the OP's step-father has passed away in November 2015 and he needs to go to the USA in March 2016 but never says why he needs to go the US in March 2016. Is there some financial basis to his need to be in the US such as the reading of a will or other estate issues? If so there may be hardship provisions that would apply as he might incur serious financial hardship if he were not present with his entire family.

Edited November 21, 2015 by JLCrab

[Langsuan Man]

In post #1 it says that the OP's step-father has passed away in November 2015 and he needs to go to the USA in March 2016 but never says why he needs to go the US in March 2016. Is there some financial basis to his need to be in the US such as the reading of a will or other estate issues? If so there may be hardship provisions that would apply as he might incur serious financial hardship if he were not present with his entire family.

The question regards the wife and kids, has nothing to do with the OP, he is a US citizen and can go to the US at any time

His problem is going to be proving that there is a reason for them (the wife and children) to return to Thailand, so far I am not seeing any "hardship" that would qualify for a change in the rules

[DocScylla]

Am I reading between the lines correctly: that you are a U.S. citizen, that your children are U.S. citizens, and that the only issue is an American visa for your Thai-citizen wife so she can accompany you and your children on a visit to the U.S.?

No, unfortunately that's not quit correct. We had originally thought that would be the situation but we have not yet attained US passports for our kids and neither time nor finances make that feasible before the proposed trip. My kids are Thai passport holders. They are however, my kids with my name on the birth certificates.

Thanks for asking (and sparing me a scolding. So far ).

If you don't have the finances to get the kids US passport how are you going to pay the Visa fee?

CRBA & Passport : 205 USD

Visa Fee: 160

Difference of 45 dollars, if you can't afford an additional 90 dollars, I think the trip to the US is out of the question.

You have some things in your favor for the length of time you are together, but your income will probably be the big issue since really there is no reason to come back to Thailand, as you and your wife working in the US would probably be more at Min wage then based on what you have written here. You have to convince the Officer that you are coming back, and just looking at what you wrote there is no compelling reason to return. Letter of support from your mother will have no bearing, as it is about your wife's reason to return.

I have a budget. I have enough to get there and to spend and to not be broke when I come back. I'm sure its hard for most people from the west and/or of at least moderately comfortable means (or more) to even imagine, but due to some extraordinarily unfortunate twists of fate and some remarkably bad choices in my youth, my situation is such that what would be an insignificant amount to the average person of my background (and basically anyone thats not basically a loser), actually impacts me. Having said that, I can afford an additional $90.

At this point, because the responses - though few - conform with what logic had already led me to believe, I'm rather resigned to the fact that tourist visa is a no go however, my wife did recall and has since confirmed that she is in fact listed as a shareholder in her brother in law's company, and at least one of my employers is willing to give me a letter saying I have a job, but that is pretty much the best we can do to offer any real ties here and it is obviously very paltry indeed.

I thank you as well, for not feeling compelled to tell me what a lowlife I am.

Edited November 22, 2015 by DocScylla

[JLCrab]

In post #1 it says that the OP's step-father has passed away in November 2015 and he needs to go to the USA in March 2016 but never says why he needs to go the US in March 2016. Is there some financial basis to his need to be in the US such as the reading of a will or other estate issues? If so there may be hardship provisions that would apply as he might incur serious financial hardship if he were not present with his entire family.

The question regards the wife and kids, has nothing to do with the OP, he is a US citizen and can go to the US at any time

His problem is going to be proving that there is a reason for them (the wife and children) to return to Thailand, so far I am not seeing any "hardship" that would qualify for a change in the rules

So far he hasn't said at all what is the reason why he needs to return to the USA in March 2016 with or without his wife and children.

[55Jay]

What is the connection between your step-father's death this month, and your report no later than date of March 2016?

[DocScylla]

What is the connection between your step-father's death this month, and your report no later than date of March 2016?

I doubt its relevant to anyone other than us.

My family is separated by vast distances (continents, national borders and oceans). That is the only window in which I have time off and we will all be together to, among other things, make certain decisions about the future. I can not prove that I have an absolute need to be there for this reason as it could be done without us but for a number of reasons, it is then or as much as a year later or more by which point things - my mother's health, for one - may have changed.

[JLCrab]

Well that's more than the OP has said so far and there does not seem to be any specific estate related issues. However, given the picture as described, I would still say that there could be some hardship considerations involved that might work in the OP's favor.

[AaronLV]

Well that's more than the OP has said so far and there does not seem to be any specific estate related issues. However, given the picture as described, I would still say that there could be some hardship considerations involved that might work in the OP's favor.

Hardships do not apply to tourist visa's only to immigrant visa's.

[JLCrab]

Well that's more than the OP has said so far and there does not seem to be any specific estate related issues. However, given the picture as described, I would still say that there could be some hardship considerations involved that might work in the OP's favor.

Hardships do not apply to tourist visa's only to immigrant visa's.

All issuance of tourist visas is a discretion call on the part of the consular official. Hardship can be a consideration in the consular's eventual decision.

Edited November 27, 2015 by JLCrab

[55Jay]

What is the connection between your step-father's death this month, and your report no later than date of March 2016?

I doubt its relevant to anyone other than us.

My family is separated by vast distances (continents, national borders and oceans). That is the only window in which I have time off and we will all be together to, among other things, make certain decisions about the future. I can not prove that I have an absolute need to be there for this reason as it could be done without us but for a number of reasons, it is then or as much as a year later or more by which point things - my mother's health, for one - may have changed.

Of course, you're right. The optics of your wife's status is what it is, and her applicaiton stands on its own.

My wife went through two interviews, but not at AMEB Bangkok. She said they were clinical and a bit accusatory in their questioning, which I imagine they would be getting lied to a lot, day in day out.

My wife's English is good, dressed in comfortable business attire, flat shoes, stylish but not over the top, and she's swtiched on and quick, not a wilting flower. She maintained her composure, looked 'em in the eye and spoke clearly and confidenty when they tried to rattle her cage. She said both interviewers seemed to lighten up and talk off-script after that.

First time she got a 1 year multi-entry which I took as a test run. Second time she was issued a 5 year.

We knew two other couples. 1 wife got a 10 year the first time. The other, which just so happened to be a gold digging miserable cow, was rejected. Twice.

[NeverSure]

I don't see a lot of emphasis on the clear fact that the children are US citizens. If I'm wrong about that, the rest of my post is also wrong, LOL.

I would try with the hope that a sympathetic immigration officer would believe the mother should stay with the children who will waltz into the US without a "by your leave" once they have their passports.

Would US immigration truly turn the mother back?

OP, if the business end of what you need to do is this time sensitive, could you consider going by yourself to wrap that up, while working on the passports etc. for next time? I don't make the connection as to why this trip requires the wife and kids... ??

Cheers.

[DocScylla]

What is the connection between your step-father's death this month, and your report no later than date of March 2016?

I doubt its relevant to anyone other than us.

My family is separated by vast distances (continents, national borders and oceans). That is the only window in which I have time off and we will all be together to, among other things, make certain decisions about the future. I can not prove that I have an absolute need to be there for this reason as it could be done without us but for a number of reasons, it is then or as much as a year later or more by which point things - my mother's health, for one - may have changed.

Of course, you're right. The optics of your wife's status is what it is, and her applicaiton stands on its own.

My wife went through two interviews, but not at AMEB Bangkok. She said they were clinical and a bit accusatory in their questioning, which I imagine they would be getting lied to a lot, day in day out.

My wife's English is good, dressed in comfortable business attire, flat shoes, stylish but not over the top, and she's swtiched on and quick, not a wilting flower. She maintained her composure, looked 'em in the eye and spoke clearly and confidenty when they tried to rattle her cage. She said both interviewers seemed to lighten up and talk off-script after that.

First time she got a 1 year multi-entry which I took as a test run. Second time she was issued a 5 year.

We knew two other couples. 1 wife got a 10 year the first time. The other, which just so happened to be a gold digging miserable cow, was rejected. Twice.

Thanks so much for your civil and helpful post. It's good of you to share your personal experience and with some context.

My wife is one of the most intelligent people I've even known and probably the strongest: she may be as well equipped with requisite attributes as your wife clearly was.

I've been aware, for decades, how almost accusatory and overtly skeptical the COs are likely to be and though it really offends me on one level, I do understand why it is that way.

I liked hearing the story about the other two couples: I take no pleasure in other's misfortune nor am I inclined to judge strangers but I'm glad - both as spouse of a potential applicant, and as US citizen - that at least sometimes, the right people are being rejected but the ones who deserve to be accepted (eg your wife) are not.

Thanks again

[DocScylla]

I don't see a lot of emphasis on the clear fact that the children are US citizens. If I'm wrong about that, the rest of my post is also wrong, LOL.

I would try with the hope that a sympathetic immigration officer would believe the mother should stay with the children who will waltz into the US without a "by your leave" once they have their passports.

Would US immigration truly turn the mother back?

OP, if the business end of what you need to do is this time sensitive, could you consider going by yourself to wrap that up, while working on the passports etc. for next time? I don't make the connection as to why this trip requires the wife and kids... ??

Cheers.

Wow, another kind person who keeps any value judgments to himself! Your message (like that of 55Jay) is encouraging at a time when we had pretty much abandoned the plan, and now I'm seriously reconsidering my reconsideration.

Yes, I could go alone and though I doubt it, I may decide that's best. However, my mom isn't going to be around forever and she wants time with the kids, my siblings are not going to all be in one place again easily, and some arrangements I made to be able to do and see much more on our trip than people with our budget normally would (a car and homes to borrow, relatives and family friends willing and eager to take the kids to do various fun things, etc) are in place for March 2016 and may not be easily arranged later, if at all.

And in a less rational way (in fact, an entirely emotional one): I went to the states 8 years ago, leaving my wife and son here and stayed six months without them - really, really miserable; as low as I've ever been (mind you, my life had really bottomed out financially and I was just starting the long slow climb up from genuine destitution). When I came back, I swore to myself and them that I wasn't leaving them behind again. My wife - who doesn't want to move there but would be THRILLED to visit - insists that I should go alone or take the kids and stop worrying about her holding us back but both I and my mother hate that idea and I just don't see it. So...

Sincere thanks for the post.

[55Jay]

The info about her shareholder status in a thai company is great news, another check in the box.

End of the day, they can only say one of two things, so why not. Put in the app, go for it.

Good luck and hopefully you all can fly together and have a great time.

Cheers,

J

[Shot]

I think your wife has a good chance.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned in this thread is the value of your ties to Thailand. You are married and living in Thailand for several years which will have some bearing on the COs decision. In other words the CO will see you have lived here for many years and that both of you will likely return. I’m convinced this was the deciding fact why my Thai GF was granted a 10 year B2, and at that time I had only lived in Thailand for about a year. A year later both of our Thai children were granted same (her children from previous that live with us). Your passport with all visas and extensions should be flagged and on top of your wife’s application package.

55Jay in post #18 has some good advice on appropriate dress and maintaining composure. This was my Gfs approach.

A good attitude, a friendly smile, eye contact and honesty go a long, long way.

Good luck and please report back to us.

[bunnydrops]

My wife has been rejected two times but I won't go into that except to say that the last time was because she did not have MY passport with her. It really came down to proving that I had reason to return to Thailand after the trip. Their thinking as best as I could tell is that if I didn't come back, neither would she. My passport would have shown that I have been living heremost of the time in the last 5years with multable extensions but she was not allowed to go outside to get mine.