Hiring 4 Thais for a work permit

[seancbk]

I am in the process of planning to setup a business in Thailand.

One of my long term friends who has had a company here for many years says that you don't have to hire the requisite 4 Thais right away when setting up a new company, in order to get a work permit, so long as you hire them within 12 months.

This is to allow you time to setup the business and find the right people etc

Can anyone else confirm that this is the case?

I will ultimately be hiring many more than 4 Thais but I won't have any until the company is up and running.

Thanks

[shirtless]

You should go to the ask a lawyer section here ,

[blackcab]

In Bangkok you need to pay a minimum of 1 month's social fund for 4 Thai staff before you apply.

You will be asked to supply the social fund receipts and photos of you and the staff at work together.

[Cylon]

Good luck mate.

[BlindMagician]

Oh, the pitfalls. The mind boggles. Multiple fingers crossed, and other body parts.

[Autonuaq]

you need a good accountant and lawyer to do business as well during the setup.

Not sure what your business is and as seen around more and more The Thai are not hiring Thai to do the job any more.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Autonuaq

[fekman]

I almost started a business here, before getting my head back on straight. You don't need them for 9 months. When you renew the work permit at month 12, you need to show you've been paying into SS system for 90 days.

[williamgeorgeallen]

my accountant at plan B will let you know. she has done a great job for me for 7 years now.

[ericthai]

I started my company in 2007. When we first opened the company we only had one Thai for the first 3-4 months.

I was able to get my work permit right away. So OP you can start the business without hiring all for employees

right away. When you go to renew your passport or extend or apply for a new B visa you will need to show taxes

had been paid and that you have 4 workers.

Thailand can be very profitable if you get in the right industry.

[blackcab]

I started my company in 2007. When we first opened the company we only had one Thai for the first 3-4 months.

I was able to get my work permit right away. So OP you can start the business without hiring all for employees

right away. When you go to renew your passport or extend or apply for a new B visa you will need to show taxes

had been paid and that you have 4 workers.

Thailand can be very profitable if you get in the right industry.

Things have changed. To get a work permit in Bangkok you need to show social fund payments for your staff. You also need to provide photos of you and your staff in the workplace.

[williamgeorgeallen]

I started my company in 2007. When we first opened the company we only had one Thai for the first 3-4 months.

I was able to get my work permit right away. So OP you can start the business without hiring all for employees

right away. When you go to renew your passport or extend or apply for a new B visa you will need to show taxes

had been paid and that you have 4 workers.

Thailand can be very profitable if you get in the right industry.

Things have changed. To get a work permit in Bangkok you need to show social fund payments for your staff. You also need to provide photos of you and your staff in the workplace.

i have had my business also since 2007 and every year we make the work permit and non im visa it gets more and more complicated. this year we had both immigration and the labor office come out to my business to take photos and interview the staff. then we just had to take alot more photos of the staff 'working' in my shop, even though both agencies had been out to my shop already. be prepared it is almost impossible to make money in thailand especially if you are competing against thai people. for a start you are going to be down 150 000thb per year just doing everything correctly with taxes, visas and work permit expenses.

[seancbk]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

[seancbk]

my accountant at plan B will let you know. she has done a great job for me for 7 years now.

I've searched for this firm but cannot find them. Are they based in Bangkok? Do you have a web address you can provide?

Thanks.

[seancbk]

I started my company in 2007. When we first opened the company we only had one Thai for the first 3-4 months.

I was able to get my work permit right away. So OP you can start the business without hiring all for employees

right away. When you go to renew your passport or extend or apply for a new B visa you will need to show taxes

had been paid and that you have 4 workers.

Thailand can be very profitable if you get in the right industry.

Things have changed. To get a work permit in Bangkok you need to show social fund payments for your staff. You also need to provide photos of you and your staff in the workplace.

i have had my business also since 2007 and every year we make the work permit and non im visa it gets more and more complicated. this year we had both immigration and the labor office come out to my business to take photos and interview the staff. then we just had to take alot more photos of the staff 'working' in my shop, even though both agencies had been out to my shop already. be prepared it is almost impossible to make money in thailand especially if you are competing against thai people. for a start you are going to be down 150 000thb per year just doing everything correctly with taxes, visas and work permit expenses.

I believe I've got a solid business idea and my investors agree with me.

As for the 150,000 THB per year for accountancy fees, visas and work permits, those are just part of the cost of doing business. Being able to stay living in Thailand and having a business that makes money far outweighs those costs. Also if a business struggles to cover such a tiny amount over the course of a year then it's not really doing very well.

I think there is huge potential if you find a business aimed at the Thai market.

[williamgeorgeallen]

my accountant at plan B will let you know. she has done a great job for me for 7 years now.

I've searched for this firm but cannot find them. Are they based in Bangkok? Do you have a web address you can provide?

Thanks.

their office is on pattaya klang near SCB bank which is not far from sukumvit. 6 years of good service from them.

[seancbk]

my accountant at plan B will let you know. she has done a great job for me for 7 years now.

I've searched for this firm but cannot find them. Are they based in Bangkok? Do you have a web address you can provide?

Thanks.

their office is on pattaya klang near SCB bank which is not far from sukumvit. 6 years of good service from them.

So they are in Pattaya?

I'm in Bangkok so not really much use to me, but thank you anyway for the info.

[fekman]

I started my company in 2007. When we first opened the company we only had one Thai for the first 3-4 months.

I was able to get my work permit right away. So OP you can start the business without hiring all for employees

right away. When you go to renew your passport or extend or apply for a new B visa you will need to show taxes

had been paid and that you have 4 workers.

Thailand can be very profitable if you get in the right industry.

Things have changed. To get a work permit in Bangkok you need to show social fund payments for your staff. You also need to provide photos of you and your staff in the workplace.

i have had my business also since 2007 and every year we make the work permit and non im visa it gets more and more complicated. this year we had both immigration and the labor office come out to my business to take photos and interview the staff. then we just had to take alot more photos of the staff 'working' in my shop, even though both agencies had been out to my shop already. be prepared it is almost impossible to make money in thailand especially if you are competing against thai people. for a start you are going to be down 150 000thb per year just doing everything correctly with taxes, visas and work permit expenses.

Last year, a foreign owned corporation 'task force' was formed. They hired 24 workers in BKK to concentrate on foreign owner compliance. Let's face it, they don't want us running businesses here. They want us to come here, drop stupid money brainlessly, and leave.

.

[seancbk]

Oh, the pitfalls. The mind boggles. Multiple fingers crossed, and other body parts.

It amazes me that people on this forum are so negative about so many aspects of life in Thailand.

Do you think that Thai people worry about pitfalls of starting a business here?

My guess is that all the naysayers either don't know what they are talking about, or their reasons for the negativity are based on 2nd and 3rd hand stories of people with no business acumen who've lost money by 'investing' in shitty beer bars or trying to start businesses with uneducated Thai bargirl girlfriends back in the provinces.

I realise that all new businesses face a degree of uncertainty, but the constant claims on this forum that no expat has any chance when it comes to creating a successful business here are ludicrous.

I suspect the people who think that way are the same people who would think that about starting a business anywhere. ie guys with no business experience who just seem to think the world is stacked against them.

[BlindMagician]

Oh, the pitfalls. The mind boggles. Multiple fingers crossed, and other body parts.

It amazes me that people on this forum are so negative about so many aspects of life in Thailand.

Do you think that Thai people worry about pitfalls of starting a business here?

My guess is that all the naysayers either don't know what they are talking about, or their reasons for the negativity are based on 2nd and 3rd hand stories of people with no business acumen who've lost money by 'investing' in shitty beer bars or trying to start businesses with uneducated Thai bargirl girlfriends back in the provinces.

I realise that all new businesses face a degree of uncertainty, but the constant claims on this forum that no expat has any chance when it comes to creating a successful business here are ludicrous.

I suspect the people who think that way are the same people who would think that about starting a business anywhere. ie guys with no business experience who just seem to think the world is stacked against them.

1. No, in essence, simply no.

2. Serious advice on starting a business, here in LOS or anywhere, needs careful selection of sources, not just one, but a few, and if needed then narrow down to one professional adviser. I know one or two of those, who make a living from advising foreign owned businesses on "the pitfalls" here, so it is well worth a little warning flag.

3. By all means, go for it, yehay, yehar, go get 'em, but take some advice along the way.

[williamgeorgeallen]

think good rules to opening a business in thailand are

1)dont invest anything you cant afford to loose.

2)dont rely on any business income for the first 3 to 5 years. first few years were lean for me.

i put about 1 million into my watersports business. i could afford to loose it and with rent from 2 propertis back in ferang land could survive the early years. in 9 years i have seen many try and almost none succeed.

now my business has a solid customer base and i am considering selling it to the guy who is managing it. has been alot of work and all i will get back is my initian investment but i have had a good standard of living and it has provided me with visas to live here.

would be interested to hear you business idea.

[seancbk]

think good rules to opening a business in thailand are

1)dont invest anything you cant afford to loose.

2)dont rely on any business income for the first 3 to 5 years. first few years were lean for me.

i put about 1 million into my watersports business. i could afford to loose it and with rent from 2 propertis back in ferang land could survive the early years. in 9 years i have seen many try and almost none succeed.

now my business has a solid customer base and i am considering selling it to the guy who is managing it. has been alot of work and all i will get back is my initian investment but i have had a good standard of living and it has provided me with visas to live here.

would be interested to hear you business idea.

It is difficult for me to get hints as to what my business is without giving away too much, so until I actually raise the funding I require and start the business, I have to keep it a secret.

However if I am not making money within a week of going into production then the business will have already failed. It is obviously a very different business to what you have been doing, yet my investment level is similar.

My market is local Thais as well as tourists, so a large potential customer base. I specifically looked for a product that would appeal to Thais first and tourists as a bonus.

I do appreciate the comments and advice. This is not the first business I've started although it is the first in Thailand.

[onthemoon]

think good rules to opening a business in thailand are

1)dont invest anything you cant afford to loose.

2)dont rely on any business income for the first 3 to 5 years. first few years were lean for me.

i put about 1 million into my watersports business. i could afford to loose it and with rent from 2 propertis back in ferang land could survive the early years. in 9 years i have seen many try and almost none succeed.

now my business has a solid customer base and i am considering selling it to the guy who is managing it. has been alot of work and all i will get back is my initian investment but i have had a good standard of living and it has provided me with visas to live here.

would be interested to hear you business idea.

These rules apply to anywhere, not just Thailand.

However, if you are from the industry you are investing in, you won't need 3-5 years. My company was profitable within the first few months, faster than expected in my business plan (which called for break-even after 6 months). It's going strong now after 7 years.

[onthemoon]

I started my company in 2007. When we first opened the company we only had one Thai for the first 3-4 months.

I was able to get my work permit right away. So OP you can start the business without hiring all for employees

right away. When you go to renew your passport or extend or apply for a new B visa you will need to show taxes

had been paid and that you have 4 workers.

Thailand can be very profitable if you get in the right industry.

Things have changed. To get a work permit in Bangkok you need to show social fund payments for your staff. You also need to provide photos of you and your staff in the workplace.

i have had my business also since 2007 and every year we make the work permit and non im visa it gets more and more complicated. this year we had both immigration and the labor office come out to my business to take photos and interview the staff. then we just had to take alot more photos of the staff 'working' in my shop, even though both agencies had been out to my shop already. be prepared it is almost impossible to make money in thailand especially if you are competing against thai people. for a start you are going to be down 150 000thb per year just doing everything correctly with taxes, visas and work permit expenses.

Last year, a foreign owned corporation 'task force' was formed. They hired 24 workers in BKK to concentrate on foreign owner compliance. Let's face it, they don't want us running businesses here. They want us to come here, drop stupid money brainlessly, and leave.

Either that, or they just want us to follow the law. Which many foreigners find this (i.e. following the law) such an alien idea that I wonder why they would invest in a country in which they expect that the law doesn't need to be followed. Sounds contradictory to me.

[williamgeorgeallen]

Things have changed. To get a work permit in Bangkok you need to show social fund payments for your staff. You also need to provide photos of you and your staff in the workplace.

i have had my business also since 2007 and every year we make the work permit and non im visa it gets more and more complicated. this year we had both immigration and the labor office come out to my business to take photos and interview the staff. then we just had to take alot more photos of the staff 'working' in my shop, even though both agencies had been out to my shop already. be prepared it is almost impossible to make money in thailand especially if you are competing against thai people. for a start you are going to be down 150 000thb per year just doing everything correctly with taxes, visas and work

Last year, a foreign owned corporation 'task force' was formed. They hired 24 workers in BKK to concentrate on foreign owner compliance. Let's face it, they don't want us running businesses here. They want us to come here, drop stupid money brainlessly, and leave.

Either that, or they just want us to follow the law. Which many foreigners find this (i.e. following the law) such an alien idea that I wonder why they would invest in a country in which they expect that the law doesn't need to be followed. Sounds contradictory to me.

the rules here are very difficult. examples are

you must have a shop or place of business even if you don't need one

you must hire 4 thais even if you don't need them

you must pay tax on a set income, even if you are not making any profit

all these annoying laws only apply to us foreigners and make it hard to compete with thai businesses. following the rules can often mean a business is unprofitable.

[seancbk]

I started my company in 2007. When we first opened the company we only had one Thai for the first 3-4 months.

I was able to get my work permit right away. So OP you can start the business without hiring all for employees

right away. When you go to renew your passport or extend or apply for a new B visa you will need to show taxes

had been paid and that you have 4 workers.

Thailand can be very profitable if you get in the right industry.

Things have changed. To get a work permit in Bangkok you need to show social fund payments for your staff. You also need to provide photos of you and your staff in the workplace.

i have had my business also since 2007 and every year we make the work permit and non im visa it gets more and more complicated. this year we had both immigration and the labor office come out to my business to take photos and interview the staff. then we just had to take alot more photos of the staff 'working' in my shop, even though both agencies had been out to my shop already. be prepared it is almost impossible to make money in thailand especially if you are competing against thai people. for a start you are going to be down 150 000thb per year just doing everything correctly with taxes, visas and work permit expenses.

Last year, a foreign owned corporation 'task force' was formed. They hired 24 workers in BKK to concentrate on foreign owner compliance. Let's face it, they don't want us running businesses here. They want us to come here, drop stupid money brainlessly, and leave.

.

They don't want people who set up businesses just to get a visa and a work permit and who complain about a few small charges and a bit of tax.

On the other hand if you are setting up something that you project will make over a million baht a month in pre tax profits, with a plan to expand across the nation and grow to over 50 million baht in annual profits within 3 years then we are talking about a very different kettle of fish.

[blackcab]

the rules here are very difficult. examples are

you must have a shop or place of business even if you don't need one

you must hire 4 thais even if you don't need them

you must pay tax on a set income, even if you are not making any profit

all these annoying laws only apply to us foreigners and make it hard to compete with thai businesses. following the rules can often mean a business is unprofitable.

I don't understand what you mean by paying tax on a set income, even if you are not making any profit.

Companies pays tax on their profits. No profit means no corporation tax.

Edited November 24, 2015 by blackcab

[seancbk]

the rules here are very difficult. examples are

you must have a shop or place of business even if you don't need one

you must hire 4 thais even if you don't need them

you must pay tax on a set income, even if you are not making any profit

all these annoying laws only apply to us foreigners and make it hard to compete with thai businesses. following the rules can often mean a business is unprofitable.

I don't understand what you mean by paying tax on a set income, even if you are not making any profit.

Companies pays tax on their profits. No profit means no corporation tax.

He is lumping in his personal salary tax with the cost of having a Thai company, probably because he's thinking only in terms of a setting up a little business with the sole intention of getting a long term visa (Non B plus work permit).

As a farang you need to be paid 50,000 THB a month in order to qualify for a work permit, irrespective of whether the little business can afford to pay you that money you still need to pay tax on a supposed income of 50K baht per month.

If a business owner is lumping his own salary and the tax he needs to pay on that with the company's money then he'd already making huge mistakes.

Personally when assessing a business I am looking for ideas that have potential to generate tens of millions in profit per year, not something where it might not be able to pay me even the minimum salary as required to qualify for a work permit.

[fekman]

think good rules to opening a business in thailand are

1)dont invest anything you cant afford to loose.

2)dont rely on any business income for the first 3 to 5 years. first few years were lean for me.

i put about 1 million into my watersports business. i could afford to loose it and with rent from 2 propertis back in ferang land could survive the early years. in 9 years i have seen many try and almost none succeed.

now my business has a solid customer base and i am considering selling it to the guy who is managing it. has been alot of work and all i will get back is my initian investment but i have had a good standard of living and it has provided me with visas to live here.

would be interested to hear you business idea.

I've talked to many foreigners who have lived here for many years. Not one can quote a real business success story from someone they know. They can tell countless failures, and the "one guy they know" thats in some kind of export business who is doing well.

I've never seen a foreigner in a retail type business that has made it. Just the paperwork, accounting, work permits etc sets you back over 10k baht a month. Severe disatvantage out of the gate.

[fekman]

the rules here are very difficult. examples are

you must have a shop or place of business even if you don't need one

you must hire 4 thais even if you don't need them

you must pay tax on a set income, even if you are not making any profit

all these annoying laws only apply to us foreigners and make it hard to compete with thai businesses. following the rules can often mean a business is unprofitable.

I don't understand what you mean by paying tax on a set income, even if you are not making any profit.

Companies pays tax on their profits. No profit means no corporation tax.

He is lumping in his personal salary tax with the cost of having a Thai company, probably because he's thinking only in terms of a setting up a little business with the sole intention of getting a long term visa (Non B plus work permit).

As a farang you need to be paid 50,000 THB a month in order to qualify for a work permit, irrespective of whether the little business can afford to pay you that money you still need to pay tax on a supposed income of 50K baht per month.

If a business owner is lumping his own salary and the tax he needs to pay on that with the company's money then he'd already making huge mistakes.

Personally when assessing a business I am looking for ideas that have potential to generate tens of millions in profit per year, not something where it might not be able to pay me even the minimum salary as required to qualify for a work permit.

Not trolling, serious question, although personal. Why do you need tens of millions of baht a year in THailand? How much clothes, beer, travel, food do you need? My income is a couple thousand u.s. a month and I cant (responsably) spend it all and I go out 5 nights a week, travel constantly etc.

.

I buy what I want within reason. The only thing more income would bring me is a bigger home, which I really dont need or want. Also, I would have to trade invaluable minutes in my life working in order to simply occupy more space on the Earth with a bigger home.

[blackcab]

I've talked to many foreigners who have lived here for many years. Not one can quote a real business success story from someone they know. They can tell countless failures, and the "one guy they know" thats in some kind of export business who is doing well.

I've never seen a foreigner in a retail type business that has made it. Just the paperwork, accounting, work permits etc sets you back over 10k baht a month. Severe disatvantage out of the gate.

I personally know several foreigners in Bangkok who have successful and profitable businesses in Thailand. Two of those foreigners are in retail businesses and I absolutely know they make decent profit.

Edited November 26, 2015 by blackcab