Turkey 'shoots down' warplane near Syrian-Turkish border

[Publicus]

Russian jet breaches Israel airspace

Ya’alon: Russian jet recently breached our airspace, wasn’t shot down

Defense minister says open coordination channel with Putin’s military prevents mistakes

http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-...not-shot-down/

The link points out thanks the IDF on November 23rd bombed Syrian and Hezbollah positions in the Qalamoun mountains and that, "Israel is reported to have been behind a series of air raids on Syrian territory since the Syrian civil war began in March 2011."

And woe be the Sukhoi-24 RuAF fighter jet because another one of 'em got shot down a year ago, over Israel. That time was not by boys throwing rocks, but rather by the IDF when Syrian AF pilots made the huge error of entering Israel air space.

Moscow for 70 years has always understood and respected one thing about the Middle East, which is not to directly threaten Israel in any way. Last time the Russian military began to actively head for the region against Israel was in 1973. Prez Nixon immediately put the US armed forces globally at Defcon 3. The Soviet Russians of the time stood down right quick.

PM Bibi Netanyahu may even get along better with Vlad in certain ways than with Barack, as indicated by the statement Bibi made a couple of months ago after he and Vlad met over these things. From your link:

“There were no objections to our rights and to what I said. On the contrary: there was readiness to make sure that whatever Russia’s intentions for Syria, Russia will not be a partner in extreme actions by Iran against us.”

For now.

[craigt3365]

Interesting graphics on who's involved in this mess. Check out the one on the number of places in the conflict. Worth a read:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/20/world/war-on-isis-whos-doing-what/index.html

The United States and its coalition partners have targeted ISIS with 8,216 airstrikes -- 5,383 in Iraq and 2,833 in Syria, through November 16, the Pentagon says.

[Morch]

Since Russia installed the S-400 system, no sorties has been flown by the US coalition in Syria.

Looks like the Russians are now able to go after everyone they seems fit.

The Turks know as soon they fly into Syrian airspace, they will be popped off the sky.

The S-400 radar is capable of moving cars or military vehicles at a distance of 600 kilometers. I wonder if Turkey wants to send more convoys.

Kinda doubt the S-400's formidable capabilities include monitoring all ground traffic within range. Even so, the system is not designed to engage ground units, but to intercept aerial threats.

[jpinx]

Interesting graphics on who's involved in this mess. Check out the one on the number of places in the conflict. Worth a read:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/20/world/war-on-isis-whos-doing-what/index.html

The United States and its coalition partners have targeted ISIS with 8,216 airstrikes -- 5,383 in Iraq and 2,833 in Syria, through November 16, the Pentagon says.

Oh dear !! Someone actually believes CNN ?

[Morch]

US is discussing with Russia whether Putin will activate the missile system he's installing. It's up to Putin cause it's his system on his territory. It would be another escalation if Putin ordered it turned on.

Assad certainly hasn't any effective say over what Putin does in Putin's new territorial domain, formerly called Syria. There's only a tiny bit left over now of what used to be Syria for Assad to rule over. Sort of rule over. Be allowed to pretend to kind of rule over. Somewhat. Sometimes. Some people who are still there. Certainly not rule over any Russians in the place.

If Putin activates the missile system once it's all in place, US will outfit its fighters with jamming equipment. Neither system would be a joke or ineffective, so the Putin fanboyz can save that song and dance which has already been disproved at the thread. Putin's missile system is maybe where Reagan's Star Wars system was back then.

Putin ordered in his missile system because Erdogan gave Putin a sore head brought on by complications due to sore nuts.

Its on. Reports are coming in that pilots can already hear the radar lock on their aircraft.

The S 400 cannot be jammed by the US or Israel. That is why Israel has made such a big deal about Russia selling it to Iran.

The Russia-Iran deal was for the S-300 (unsure which variant will be supplied, but a very good system regardless). Most times, countries do not tend to advertise what they can or cannot do when it comes to dealing with their opponents hardware. There is usually no need to reveal capabilities, unless in cases where a point is being made. The S-400 been around for a few years now, been in design a whole lot longer. Coming up with relevant tactics and countermeasures would have commenced even before the system went operational.

I am not claiming that there is a definite fail-proof way to handle the system, but seriously doubt it is impregnable as some imagine. While it would certainly present an operational setback for other air forces operating in the area (even if there are ways to counter it, might not be worth exposing them), there are some obvious intelligence benefits from monitoring the performance of a top-of-the-line system.

[Morch]

The Turkish Air Force is shiiiiiiiiiiiii t to be honest. We have no means of matching Russia. We only have f-16's, yes they've been upgraded and all, but we currently don't have an air superiority fighter like f-15 or f-35. I'm sure some military geeks can confirm my point. For the last 30 years we've been getting into dogfights with greek planes which were no match for us, but russia is a different story. S-400 is really advanced.

The Turkish Air Force is actually alright, relative to some neighbors. No match for Russia, for sure, but then it isn't as if all of the Russian Air Force is stationed in Syria. Prior to the interception, the Russian forces were actually at a disadvantage, if things were to come to blows. The only game changer with regard to the current Russian deployment is the S-400. The F-16's operated by the Turkish Air Force are more than enough to handle any aerial threats from its neighbors (including the Russian forces in Syria).

The point is that there is no real reason for a head-on showdown, and not very likely one will materialize.

[maykilceksin]

Recent news and comments state that Russia maybe let its plane shot down in purpose to make them bring out s400 missles (and in a day so it looks like they were ready for it!) Bc experts claim that it is impossible for russian planes not hearing the 10 warnings made by turkish air force as all othet air forces around heard those warnings.

And this way, they claim rights to bring land troops and more planes and equipmet to create problems around and make their stay there longer.

[Publicus]

Since Russia installed the S-400 system, no sorties has been flown by the US coalition in Syria.

Looks like the Russians are now able to go after everyone they seems fit.

The Turks know as soon they fly into Syrian airspace, they will be popped off the sky.

The S-400 radar is capable of moving cars or military vehicles at a distance of 600 kilometers. I wonder if Turkey wants to send more convoys.

Putin has to proceed with a caution he does not have.

Neither Putin nor Obama want their planes or missiles going after one another. Erdogan has demonstrated he'll do just about anything.

No one should assume or believe Russia has achieved air superiority over the US & Coalition or of any state within range of this system. Putin least of all.

[Morch]

Recent news and comments state that Russia maybe let its plane shot down in purpose to make them bring out s400 missles (and in a day so it looks like they were ready for it!)

Bc experts claim that it is impossible for russian planes not hearing the 10 warnings made by turkish air force as all othet air forces around heard those warnings.

And this way, they claim rights to bring land troops and more planes and equipmet to create problems around and make their stay there longer.

I don't know that it was planned, finding it more conspiracy theory level thinking.

That the opportunity was swiftly seized is certain.

Soviet (and nowadays, Russian) deployment of aircraft usually goes hand in hand with air defense elements. If anything, it wouldn't have been out of character if they had set it up earlier. Guess that would have caused issues with neighboring countries coalition forces, but now there's a good enough excuse.

The speed with which it was deployed is not surprising. Mobility is one lesson the Soviets learned well from past engagements. There were surly contingency plans to deploy the system long before the current Russian force set foot in Syria.

[craigt3365]

Interesting graphics on who's involved in this mess. Check out the one on the number of places in the conflict. Worth a read:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/20/world/war-on-isis-whos-doing-what/index.html

The United States and its coalition partners have targeted ISIS with 8,216 airstrikes -- 5,383 in Iraq and 2,833 in Syria, through November 16, the Pentagon says.

Oh dear !! Someone actually believes CNN ?

Give me a credible alternative. Credible. I've worked with Time Warner in the past. Great corporation. Great corporate HQ!!

[Harsh Jones]

Russian jet breaches Israel airspace

Ya’alon: Russian jet recently breached our airspace, wasn’t shot down

Defense minister says open coordination channel with Putin’s military prevents mistakes

http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-...not-shot-down/

The link points out thanks the IDF on November 23rd bombed Syrian and Hezbollah positions in the Qalamoun mountains and that, "Israel is reported to have been behind a series of air raids on Syrian territory since the Syrian civil war began in March 2011."

And woe be the Sukhoi-24 RuAF fighter jet because another one of 'em got shot down a year ago, over Israel. That time was not by boys throwing rocks, but rather by the IDF when Syrian AF pilots made the huge error of entering Israel air space.

Moscow for 70 years has always understood and respected one thing about the Middle East, which is not to directly threaten Israel in any way. Last time the Russian military began to actively head for the region against Israel was in 1973. Prez Nixon immediately put the US armed forces globally at Defcon 3. The Soviet Russians of the time stood down right quick.

PM Bibi Netanyahu may even get along better with Vlad in certain ways than with Barack, as indicated by the statement Bibi made a couple of months ago after he and Vlad met over these things. From your link:

“There were no objections to our rights and to what I said. On the contrary: there was readiness to make sure that whatever Russia’s intentions for Syria, Russia will not be a partner in extreme actions by Iran against us.”

For now.

This current Russian federation put handcuffs on Michail Gorbechov, the leader of the USSR. If you refuse to accept some basic history then you cant make proper judgements on any preceding history.

[manarak]

Very interesting

I am right now watching Wolfgang Schäuble (current minister of finance in Germany) who is a guest at Günther Jauch's talkshow.

Jauch told him that Germany needs Turkey to control the migrant flux, but that Turkey is rumored to have ties with ISIS, to make business with ISIS, to supply weapons, to let terrorist fighters through the border and to buy oil from ISIS and then asked Schäuble how dirty foreign partners have to be for German policitians to stop talking to them? (sorry spoken German often produces horrible phrases).

What was interesting was the reaction of Schäuble - he just gazed down and lowered his head, just a microexpression away from a nod and then proceeded to talk about his role in German ministries dealing with East Germany in the eighties.

There has not been a single word such as "these allegations have not been proven" or similar.

[Publicus]

Russian jet breaches Israel airspace

Ya’alon: Russian jet recently breached our airspace, wasn’t shot down

Defense minister says open coordination channel with Putin’s military prevents mistakes

http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-...not-shot-down/

The link points out thanks the IDF on November 23rd bombed Syrian and Hezbollah positions in the Qalamoun mountains and that, "Israel is reported to have been behind a series of air raids on Syrian territory since the Syrian civil war began in March 2011."

And woe be the Sukhoi-24 RuAF fighter jet because another one of 'em got shot down a year ago, over Israel. That time was not by boys throwing rocks, but rather by the IDF when Syrian AF pilots made the huge error of entering Israel air space.

Moscow for 70 years has always understood and respected one thing about the Middle East, which is not to directly threaten Israel in any way. Last time the Russian military began to actively head for the region against Israel was in 1973. Prez Nixon immediately put the US armed forces globally at Defcon 3. The Soviet Russians of the time stood down right quick.

PM Bibi Netanyahu may even get along better with Vlad in certain ways than with Barack, as indicated by the statement Bibi made a couple of months ago after he and Vlad met over these things. From your link:

“There were no objections to our rights and to what I said. On the contrary: there was readiness to make sure that whatever Russia’s intentions for Syria, Russia will not be a partner in extreme actions by Iran against us.”

For now.

This current Russian federation put handcuffs on Michail Gorbechov, the leader of the USSR. If you refuse to accept some basic history then you cant make proper judgements on any preceding history.

The future former Russian Federation doesn't know what it's doing or that it's going to hell in a handbasket.

Putin and his Chekist chums running the government and military have run a tight ship which they've finally run onto the rocks. It's always been little publicised that Putin since he came to power in 1999 surrounded himself with fellow KGB and GRU (Soviet military intelligence) at the top and throughout the government. The oligarchs have the economy, the goon squad has the government and military. They all get the money.

The most significant consequence is the most recent one. Putin has lost Germany. Germany is sending some support against Daesh but no offensive military forces to include no air forces. Chancellor Merkel is going in with Hollande and Obama, not with Putin. Putin has lost Germany for good. It's over between the two.

In the Pew 2015 poll of people's views in countries towards other countries, Putin and his fellow Chekists got knocked off their Kremlin chairs by the results from Germany. Seventy percent of Germans "dislike" Russia while only 23% "like" Russia. Putin's unfavorable in Germany is 76%. Centuries of history between the two gone down the crapper and gone for good, to include the post-Soviet reconciliation.

Those who for years had been predicting a Russia-Germany-China-Brics alliance and new world order have always been out of order and remain disordered.

Putin is in over his head in Syria and the ME. Erdogan kicked him in the balls and Merkel is gonna give him a swift uppercut to his glass jaw. US Coalition and allied partners are meanwhile strategising their new and coordinated Order Of Battle of resumed air and sea based strikes against IS to support the anti-Assad rebels going forward.

Germans, Russians trust each other less and less

Despite so-called Putin-sympathizers and eastern Germany's historic link to Mother Russia, a new poll shows that German and Russian opinions of one another have soured dramatically in recent years.

http://www.thelocal.de/20150806/germans-russians-increasingly-dislike-each-other

Edited November 30, 2015 by Publicus

[Andaman Al]

This current Russian federation put handcuffs on Michail Gorbechov, the leader of the USSR. If you refuse to accept some basic history then you cant make proper judgements on any preceding history.

The future former Russian Federation doesn't know what it's doing or that it's going to hell in a handbasket.

Putin and his Chekist chums running the government and military have run a tight ship which they've finally run onto the rocks. It's always been little publicised that Putin since he came to power in 1999 surrounded himself with fellow KGB and GRU (Soviet military intelligence) at the top and throughout the government. The oligarchs have the economy, the goon squad has the government and military. They all get the money.

The most significant consequence is the most recent one. Putin has lost Germany. Germany is sending some support against Daesh but no offensive military forces to include no air forces. Chancellor Merkel is going in with Hollande and Obama, not with Putin. Putin has lost Germany for good. It's over between the two.

In the Pew 2015 poll of people's views in countries towards other countries, Putin and his fellow Chekists got knocked off their Kremlin chairs by the results from Germany. Seventy percent of Germans "dislike" Russia while only 23% "like" Russia. Putin's unfavorable in Germany is 76%. Centuries of history between the two gone down the crapper and gone for good, to include the post-Soviet reconciliation.

Those who for years had been predicting a Russia-Germany-China-Brics alliance and new world order have always been out of order and remain disordered.

Putin is in over his head in Syria and the ME. Erdogan kicked him in the balls and Merkel is gonna give him a swift uppercut to his glass jaw. US Coalition and allied partners are meanwhile strategising their new and coordinated Order Of Battle of resumed air and sea based strikes against IS to support the anti-Assad rebels going forward.

Germans, Russians trust each other less and less

Despite so-called Putin-sympathizers and eastern Germany's historic link to Mother Russia, a new poll shows that German and Russian opinions of one another have soured dramatically in recent years.

http://www.thelocal.de/20150806/germans-russians-increasingly-dislike-each-other

From the post above:

In the Pew 2015 poll of people's views in countries towards other countries, Putin and his fellow Chekists got knocked off their Kremlin chairs by the results from Germany. Seventy percent of Germans "dislike" Russia while only 23% "like" Russia. Putin's unfavorable in Germany is 76%. Centuries of history between the two gone down the crapper and gone for good, to include the post-Soviet reconciliation.

You are having a laugh aren't you? Can you show me any polls where the Germans ever liked the Russians? These ties to Mother Russia were enforced after WW2, during which some 20 million Russians died and whole Army's of German troops suffered very badly at the hands of the people they were invading. Harsh winters often saw German soldiers who had been captured, stripped naked outside while they had layer after layer of water poured over them until they died an agonising death by being frozen alive. The Russians hated the Germans and the Germans hated the Russians.

Ask a Jew living in Israel in a poll if they like Germans and see the bad blood that still exists despite the fact that nobody today was responsible for the atrocities. The German/Russian mind-set towards each other is exactly the same. I am not sure that the poll results are a shock but am genuinely pleased to see that 23% of Germans have got over it. I am not sure if a poll of 'Do Russians like Germans' would fair much better.

[Lukecan]

Every decade has a crazy leader. In the 80's and early 90's it was saddam. In the 2000's its putin.

He annexed crimea, what did he get out of it? Bunch of sanctions, was it worth it? His citizens are 2x poorer compared to last year, it costs 2x more to have a holiday in Pattaya.

Now he is <deleted> with Erdogan. Russia will lose in the long run, with the completion of TANAP project, Turkey won't be so much dependent on Russia for natural gas anymore, it pays 20 billion dollars a year to Russia to meet its energy needs. Erdogan will probably buy the oil from his friends in the gulf, and get rest of the natural gas from Azerbaijan and Iran. Losing a energy hungry country like Turkey will be a big blow to Russia.

There are so many Putin cheerleaders here, but Erdogan is following a more rational strategy. Last time Russia <deleted> with Turkey in this scale was in 1947, the straits crisis. Guess what that led to? Until 1947 Turkey was more or less neutral, but after that it turned to the west and eventually joined NATO. That still pisses off Russia today.

Edited December 3, 2015 by metisdead
Profanity

[Publicus]

This current Russian federation put handcuffs on Michail Gorbechov, the leader of the USSR. If you refuse to accept some basic history then you cant make proper judgements on any preceding history.

The future former Russian Federation doesn't know what it's doing or that it's going to hell in a handbasket.

Putin and his Chekist chums running the government and military have run a tight ship which they've finally run onto the rocks. It's always been little publicised that Putin since he came to power in 1999 surrounded himself with fellow KGB and GRU (Soviet military intelligence) at the top and throughout the government. The oligarchs have the economy, the goon squad has the government and military. They all get the money.

The most significant consequence is the most recent one. Putin has lost Germany. Germany is sending some support against Daesh but no offensive military forces to include no air forces. Chancellor Merkel is going in with Hollande and Obama, not with Putin. Putin has lost Germany for good. It's over between the two.

In the Pew 2015 poll of people's views in countries towards other countries, Putin and his fellow Chekists got knocked off their Kremlin chairs by the results from Germany. Seventy percent of Germans "dislike" Russia while only 23% "like" Russia. Putin's unfavorable in Germany is 76%. Centuries of history between the two gone down the crapper and gone for good, to include the post-Soviet reconciliation.

Those who for years had been predicting a Russia-Germany-China-Brics alliance and new world order have always been out of order and remain disordered.

Putin is in over his head in Syria and the ME. Erdogan kicked him in the balls and Merkel is gonna give him a swift uppercut to his glass jaw. US Coalition and allied partners are meanwhile strategising their new and coordinated Order Of Battle of resumed air and sea based strikes against IS to support the anti-Assad rebels going forward.

Germans, Russians trust each other less and less

Despite so-called Putin-sympathizers and eastern Germany's historic link to Mother Russia, a new poll shows that German and Russian opinions of one another have soured dramatically in recent years.

http://www.thelocal.de/20150806/germans-russians-increasingly-dislike-each-other

From the post above:

In the Pew 2015 poll of people's views in countries towards other countries, Putin and his fellow Chekists got knocked off their Kremlin chairs by the results from Germany. Seventy percent of Germans "dislike" Russia while only 23% "like" Russia. Putin's unfavorable in Germany is 76%. Centuries of history between the two gone down the crapper and gone for good, to include the post-Soviet reconciliation.

You are having a laugh aren't you? Can you show me any polls where the Germans ever liked the Russians? These ties to Mother Russia were enforced after WW2, during which some 20 million Russians died and whole Army's of German troops suffered very badly at the hands of the people they were invading. Harsh winters often saw German soldiers who had been captured, stripped naked outside while they had layer after layer of water poured over them until they died an agonising death by being frozen alive. The Russians hated the Germans and the Germans hated the Russians.

Ask a Jew living in Israel in a poll if they like Germans and see the bad blood that still exists despite the fact that nobody today was responsible for the atrocities. The German/Russian mind-set towards each other is exactly the same. I am not sure that the poll results are a shock but am genuinely pleased to see that 23% of Germans have got over it. I am not sure if a poll of 'Do Russians like Germans' would fair much better.

We don't need to go back several centuries of bonding between Germans and Russians to recognise and comprehend what is occurring in the early years of the 21st century.

Katherine the Great was for instance Sophie Friederike Auguste von Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg and I also refer to such Germans over the several centuries as Krusenstern, Barclay de Tolly, Osterman among large numbers of Germans who brought European civilisation to Russians. Russia however remained the harsh and brutal place it always was from the days of Ivan the Terrible and before.

Germans are not without fault in the history of the past few centuries. Twenty-first century Germany is a radically different place however. Russia is not. The divide is only accelerating.

At the least, read the link....

A poll by Pew Research Center released on Wednesday showed that the percentage of Germans who viewed Russia positively dropped from half the population in 2010 to 27 percent this year.

Similarly, the number of Russians who said they viewed Germany favourably tumbled from 78 percent in 2011 to 35 percent in 2015.

Germany PM Angela Merkel has judged Putin as irrational and unreasonable. Merkel has done so since the late night one-on-one meeting at the G-20 meeting in Brisbane. Putin is fluent in German from his time in the former East Germany with the KGB, the part of Germany Merkel was born and raised into, and which Merkel rejects. Merkel in Brisbane emerged from the private meeting shaking her head. It was very early the next morning Putin fled the G-20 meeting to universal approbation, due primarily to Ukraine.

Now Putin is in Syria. He's whipped out his SA-21 Growler air defense system (S-400) which is overkill, extreme. The only thing Putin knows is how to make everything worse. He's another reverse midas guy. No one in Nato wants to get into a war against Russia. That is, however, what Nato was founded to defend against and to do if it must.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Publicus

[maykilceksin]

Very interesting

I am right now watching Wolfgang Schäuble (current minister of finance in Germany) who is a guest at Günther Jauch's talkshow.

Jauch told him that Germany needs Turkey to control the migrant flux, but that Turkey is rumored to have ties with ISIS, to make business with ISIS, to supply weapons, to let terrorist fighters through the border and to buy oil from ISIS and then asked Schäuble how dirty foreign partners have to be for German policitians to stop talking to them? (sorry spoken German often produces horrible phrases).

What was interesting was the reaction of Schäuble - he just gazed down and lowered his head, just a microexpression away from a nod and then proceeded to talk about his role in German ministries dealing with East Germany in the eighties.

There has not been a single word such as "these allegations have not been proven" or similar.

Yeah. Are they proven?

So you ask rumors and allegations to a minister and let him comment?

That Gunter must be a discriminative guy and not a good reporter but just a claimer and what is the point related isis and migrants?

Ethical rules in press business states that if you allegedly claim rumors, you need proof to back them up or you just be a bogus reporter.

Turks take care 3 millions migrants now and this is the biggest migrant issue after ww2.

it is a pity turkey agreed with eu to curb the migrants.

If I were turks, I just open the gates fully and let all 3 million migrants march to europe and let them deal as all those help and assitance for 3 millon migrants and still some discriminative bogus reporter guy claims things from his a....s

Edited December 1, 2015 by maykilceksin

[Harsh Jones]

Russian jet breaches Israel airspace

Ya’alon: Russian jet recently breached our airspace, wasn’t shot down

Defense minister says open coordination channel with Putin’s military prevents mistakes

http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-...not-shot-down/

The link points out thanks the IDF on November 23rd bombed Syrian and Hezbollah positions in the Qalamoun mountains and that, "Israel is reported to have been behind a series of air raids on Syrian territory since the Syrian civil war began in March 2011."

And woe be the Sukhoi-24 RuAF fighter jet because another one of 'em got shot down a year ago, over Israel. That time was not by boys throwing rocks, but rather by the IDF when Syrian AF pilots made the huge error of entering Israel air space.

Moscow for 70 years has always understood and respected one thing about the Middle East, which is not to directly threaten Israel in any way. Last time the Russian military began to actively head for the region against Israel was in 1973. Prez Nixon immediately put the US armed forces globally at Defcon 3. The Soviet Russians of the time stood down right quick.

PM Bibi Netanyahu may even get along better with Vlad in certain ways than with Barack, as indicated by the statement Bibi made a couple of months ago after he and Vlad met over these things. From your link:

“There were no objections to our rights and to what I said. On the contrary: there was readiness to make sure that whatever Russia’s intentions for Syria, Russia will not be a partner in extreme actions by Iran against us.”

For now.

This current Russian federation put handcuffs on Michail Gorbechov, the leader of the USSR. If you refuse to accept some basic history then you cant make proper judgements on any preceding history.

The future former Russian Federation doesn't know what it's doing or that it's going to hell in a handbasket.

Putin and his Chekist chums running the government and military have run a tight ship which they've finally run onto the rocks. It's always been little publicised that Putin since he came to power in 1999 surrounded himself with fellow KGB and GRU (Soviet military intelligence) at the top and throughout the government. The oligarchs have the economy, the goon squad has the government and military. They all get the money.

The most significant consequence is the most recent one. Putin has lost Germany. Germany is sending some support against Daesh but no offensive military forces to include no air forces. Chancellor Merkel is going in with Hollande and Obama, not with Putin. Putin has lost Germany for good. It's over between the two.

In the Pew 2015 poll of people's views in countries towards other countries, Putin and his fellow Chekists got knocked off their Kremlin chairs by the results from Germany. Seventy percent of Germans "dislike" Russia while only 23% "like" Russia. Putin's unfavorable in Germany is 76%. Centuries of history between the two gone down the crapper and gone for good, to include the post-Soviet reconciliation.

Those who for years had been predicting a Russia-Germany-China-Brics alliance and new world order have always been out of order and remain disordered.

Putin is in over his head in Syria and the ME. Erdogan kicked him in the balls and Merkel is gonna give him a swift uppercut to his glass jaw. US Coalition and allied partners are meanwhile strategising their new and coordinated Order Of Battle of resumed air and sea based strikes against IS to support the anti-Assad rebels going forward.

Germans, Russians trust each other less and less

Despite so-called Putin-sympathizers and eastern Germany's historic link to Mother Russia, a new poll shows that German and Russian opinions of one another have soured dramatically in recent years.

http://www.thelocal.de/20150806/germans-russians-increasingly-dislike-each-other

The 2nd Most Powerful Person in German Politics Wants ...

russia-insider.com/en/2nd-most...wants-russia-sanctions-lifted/ri10147

Oct 3, 2015 - The 2nd Most Powerful Person in German Politics Wants Russia Sanctions Lifted. Germany's auto manufacturers are among the industries ...

[Harsh Jones]

Pentagon Seeks Easing of Ban on Russian Rockets for U.S. ...

www.nytimes.com/.../pentagon-seeks-easing-of-ban-on-russian-rockets-for-...

Jun 3, 2015 - The Pentagon says that additional Russian engines will be needed for at least a few ... in fighting between Ukraine and pro-Russian separatists being removed from ... has imposed a raft of financial and travel sanctions against Russian officials, .... The Pentagon wants the company to be able to use the rest.

Germany Wants Russian Sanctions Lifted To Safeguard ...

www.ibtimes.com/germany-wants-russian-sanctions-lifted-safeguard-eco...

Jul 6, 2015 - A German lawmaker wants to lift Russian sanctions. Pictured above, a general view showing the Reichstag building, which seats the ...

Head of French Senate wants sanctions lifted off Russia ...

https://www.rt.com/politics/322531-head-of-french-senate-wants/

Nov 18, 2015 - President of French Senate Gerard Larcher strongly opposes sanctions against Russia and Russian parliamentarians, Federation Council ...

Seven EU countries support lifting sanctions on Russia ...

tass.ru/en/world/771324

Seven EU countries support the lifting of Western sanctions on Russia, a diplomatic source in ... “The sanctions' lifting has been supported by Austria, Hungary, Italy, Cyprus, Slovakia, France and the Czech Republic,” he said. ... Erdogan confirms he wants to hold talks with Putin ... Russia's gas pipelines to Europe by 2018.

[maykilceksin]

Very interesting

I am right now watching Wolfgang Schäuble (current minister of finance in Germany) who is a guest at Günther Jauch's talkshow.

Jauch told him that Germany needs Turkey to control the migrant flux, but that Turkey is rumored to have ties with ISIS, to make business with ISIS, to supply weapons, to let terrorist fighters through the border and to buy oil from ISIS and then asked Schäuble how dirty foreign partners have to be for German policitians to stop talking to them? (sorry spoken German often produces horrible phrases).

What was interesting was the reaction of Schäuble - he just gazed down and lowered his head, just a microexpression away from a nod and then proceeded to talk about his role in German ministries dealing with East Germany in the eighties.

There has not been a single word such as "these allegations have not been proven" or similar.

Yeah. Are they proven?

So you ask rumors and allegations to a minister and let him comment?

That Gunter must be a discriminative guy and not a good reporter but just a claimer and what is the point related isis and migrants?

Ethical rules in press business states that if you allegedly claim rumors, you need proof to back them up or you just be a bogus reporter.

Turks take care 3 millions migrants now and this is the biggest migrant issue after ww2.

it is a pity turkey agreed with eu to curb the migrants.

If I were turks, I just open the gates fully and let all 3 million migrants march to europe and let them deal as all those help and assitance for 3 millon migrants and still some discriminative bogus reporter guy claims things from his a....s

Turkey has opened the gates fully already.

..the problem is that few refugees have the money to pay the traffickers and make it to Western Europe.

Opened but not fully.

And they did the right thing as this way world awakened a bit.

Bc europe was thinking like it is turkey's problem to deal with muslim migrants (if syrians were christians, they have accepted most syrians already) until turkey relaxed its sea borders with greece.

[Harsh Jones]

Very interesting

I am right now watching Wolfgang Schäuble (current minister of finance in Germany) who is a guest at Günther Jauch's talkshow.

Jauch told him that Germany needs Turkey to control the migrant flux, but that Turkey is rumored to have ties with ISIS, to make business with ISIS, to supply weapons, to let terrorist fighters through the border and to buy oil from ISIS and then asked Schäuble how dirty foreign partners have to be for German policitians to stop talking to them? (sorry spoken German often produces horrible phrases).

What was interesting was the reaction of Schäuble - he just gazed down and lowered his head, just a microexpression away from a nod and then proceeded to talk about his role in German ministries dealing with East Germany in the eighties.

There has not been a single word such as "these allegations have not been proven" or similar.

Yeah. Are they proven?

So you ask rumors and allegations to a minister and let him comment?

That Gunter must be a discriminative guy and not a good reporter but just a claimer and what is the point related isis and migrants?

Ethical rules in press business states that if you allegedly claim rumors, you need proof to back them up or you just be a bogus reporter.

Turks take care 3 millions migrants now and this is the biggest migrant issue after ww2.

it is a pity turkey agreed with eu to curb the migrants.

If I were turks, I just open the gates fully and let all 3 million migrants march to europe and let them deal as all those help and assitance for 3 millon migrants and still some discriminative bogus reporter guy claims things from his a....s

Turkey has opened the gates fully already.

..the problem is that few refugees have the money to pay the traffickers and make it to Western Europe.

Opened but not fully.

And they did the right thing as this way world awakened a bit.

Bc europe was thinking like it is turkey's problem to deal with muslim migrants (if syrians were christians, they have accepted most syrians already) until turkey relaxed its sea borders with greece.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/30/l-todd-wood-iraq-turkey-buying-isis-oil/

Former Iraqi member of Parliament Mowaffak al Rubaie has accused Turkey of turning a blind eye to the black market ISIS oil trade.

“In the last eight months ISIS has managed to sell … $800 million dollars worth of oil on the black market of Turkey.

[JHolmesJr]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/30/l-todd-wood-iraq-turkey-buying-isis-oil/

Former Iraqi member of Parliament Mowaffak al Rubaie has accused Turkey of turning a blind eye to the black market ISIS oil trade.

“In the last eight months ISIS has managed to sell … $800 million dollars worth of oil on the black market of Turkey.

You could buy a few nukes for that.

[Publicus]

This current Russian federation put handcuffs on Michail Gorbechov, the leader of the USSR. If you refuse to accept some basic history then you cant make proper judgements on any preceding history.

The future former Russian Federation doesn't know what it's doing or that it's going to hell in a handbasket.

Putin and his Chekist chums running the government and military have run a tight ship which they've finally run onto the rocks. It's always been little publicised that Putin since he came to power in 1999 surrounded himself with fellow KGB and GRU (Soviet military intelligence) at the top and throughout the government. The oligarchs have the economy, the goon squad has the government and military. They all get the money.

The most significant consequence is the most recent one. Putin has lost Germany. Germany is sending some support against Daesh but no offensive military forces to include no air forces. Chancellor Merkel is going in with Hollande and Obama, not with Putin. Putin has lost Germany for good. It's over between the two.

In the Pew 2015 poll of people's views in countries towards other countries, Putin and his fellow Chekists got knocked off their Kremlin chairs by the results from Germany. Seventy percent of Germans "dislike" Russia while only 23% "like" Russia. Putin's unfavorable in Germany is 76%. Centuries of history between the two gone down the crapper and gone for good, to include the post-Soviet reconciliation.

Those who for years had been predicting a Russia-Germany-China-Brics alliance and new world order have always been out of order and remain disordered.

Putin is in over his head in Syria and the ME. Erdogan kicked him in the balls and Merkel is gonna give him a swift uppercut to his glass jaw. US Coalition and allied partners are meanwhile strategising their new and coordinated Order Of Battle of resumed air and sea based strikes against IS to support the anti-Assad rebels going forward.

Germans, Russians trust each other less and less

Despite so-called Putin-sympathizers and eastern Germany's historic link to Mother Russia, a new poll shows that German and Russian opinions of one another have soured dramatically in recent years.

http://www.thelocal.de/20150806/germans-russians-increasingly-dislike-each-other

The 2nd Most Powerful Person in German Politics Wants ...

russia-insider.com/en/2nd-most...wants-russia-sanctions-lifted/ri10147

Oct 3, 2015 - The 2nd Most Powerful Person in German Politics Wants Russia Sanctions Lifted. Germany's auto manufacturers are among the industries ...

That's going nowhere as the concluding paragraph of the link points out. You're off topic anyway.

Economic ties in energy especially date back to West Germany and USSR days. Those days are gone.

Germany and the EU have already secured energy resources away from Russia, to include Madagascar, the USA and numerous other countries that are "non-strategic competitors" of Nato/EU. In other words, Putin's Chekist Russia had become a strategic competitor to Germany, EU, Nato. So no more dependency. Kaput.

Germany still has its Russia and Putin boosters. It's just that they are in a steady and consistent decline.

Former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder of the pro-Russia Social Democratic Party has become the poster boy of how not to do it in Germany. Schroeder went to work for Putin at Gazprom then he became head of Nord Stream AG. SPD is scurrying now to put that new vote-loser and liability behind them in their next general election challenge against Merkel's Christian Democrats.

So we see that simply posting news articles with links doesn't say much about what's actually occurring anywhere, anytime. Trying to create a headline bulletin board of posts doesn't cut it either.

[maykilceksin]

Yeah. Are they proven?

So you ask rumors and allegations to a minister and let him comment?

That Gunter must be a discriminative guy and not a good reporter but just a claimer and what is the point related isis and migrants?

Ethical rules in press business states that if you allegedly claim rumors, you need proof to back them up or you just be a bogus reporter.

Turks take care 3 millions migrants now and this is the biggest migrant issue after ww2.

it is a pity turkey agreed with eu to curb the migrants.

If I were turks, I just open the gates fully and let all 3 million migrants march to europe and let them deal as all those help and assitance for 3 millon migrants and still some discriminative bogus reporter guy claims things from his a....s

Turkey has opened the gates fully already.

..the problem is that few refugees have the money to pay the traffickers and make it to Western Europe.

Opened but not fully.

And they did the right thing as this way world awakened a bit.

Bc europe was thinking like it is turkey's problem to deal with muslim migrants (if syrians were christians, they have accepted most syrians already) until turkey relaxed its sea borders with greece.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/30/l-todd-wood-iraq-turkey-buying-isis-oil/

Former Iraqi member of Parliament Mowaffak al Rubaie has accused Turkey of turning a blind eye to the black market ISIS oil trade.

“In the last eight months ISIS has managed to sell … $800 million dollars worth of oil on the black market of Turkey.

accused of this and accused of that. Where are the facts? all countries are accused on something in this world.

Iraq is a a country where ISIS is living and residing now and clearly they do nothing. and you still listen that former something guy?

so now they blame Turks due to their impotence towards ISIS?

[Harsh Jones]

This current Russian federation put handcuffs on Michail Gorbechov, the leader of the USSR. If you refuse to accept some basic history then you cant make proper judgements on any preceding history.

The future former Russian Federation doesn't know what it's doing or that it's going to hell in a handbasket.

Putin and his Chekist chums running the government and military have run a tight ship which they've finally run onto the rocks. It's always been little publicised that Putin since he came to power in 1999 surrounded himself with fellow KGB and GRU (Soviet military intelligence) at the top and throughout the government. The oligarchs have the economy, the goon squad has the government and military. They all get the money.

The most significant consequence is the most recent one. Putin has lost Germany. Germany is sending some support against Daesh but no offensive military forces to include no air forces. Chancellor Merkel is going in with Hollande and Obama, not with Putin. Putin has lost Germany for good. It's over between the two.

In the Pew 2015 poll of people's views in countries towards other countries, Putin and his fellow Chekists got knocked off their Kremlin chairs by the results from Germany. Seventy percent of Germans "dislike" Russia while only 23% "like" Russia. Putin's unfavorable in Germany is 76%. Centuries of history between the two gone down the crapper and gone for good, to include the post-Soviet reconciliation.

Those who for years had been predicting a Russia-Germany-China-Brics alliance and new world order have always been out of order and remain disordered.

Putin is in over his head in Syria and the ME. Erdogan kicked him in the balls and Merkel is gonna give him a swift uppercut to his glass jaw. US Coalition and allied partners are meanwhile strategising their new and coordinated Order Of Battle of resumed air and sea based strikes against IS to support the anti-Assad rebels going forward.

Germans, Russians trust each other less and less

Despite so-called Putin-sympathizers and eastern Germany's historic link to Mother Russia, a new poll shows that German and Russian opinions of one another have soured dramatically in recent years.

http://www.thelocal.de/20150806/germans-russians-increasingly-dislike-each-other

The 2nd Most Powerful Person in German Politics Wants ...

russia-insider.com/en/2nd-most...wants-russia-sanctions-lifted/ri10147

Oct 3, 2015 - The 2nd Most Powerful Person in German Politics Wants Russia Sanctions Lifted. Germany's auto manufacturers are among the industries ...

That's going nowhere as the concluding paragraph of the link points out. You're off topic anyway.

Economic ties in energy especially date back to West Germany and USSR days. Those days are gone.

Germany and the EU have already secured energy resources away from Russia, to include Madagascar, the USA and numerous other countries that are "non-strategic competitors" of Nato/EU. In other words, Putin's Chekist Russia had become a strategic competitor to Germany, EU, Nato. So no more dependency. Kaput.

Germany still has its Russia and Putin boosters. It's just that they are in a steady and consistent decline.

Former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder of the pro-Russia Social Democratic Party has become the poster boy of how not to do it in Germany. Schroeder went to work for Putin at Gazprom then he became head of Nord Stream AG. SPD is scurrying now to put that new vote-loser and liability behind them in their next general election challenge against Merkel's Christian Democrats.

So we see that simply posting news articles with links doesn't say much about what's actually occurring anywhere, anytime. Trying to create a headline bulletin board of posts doesn't cut it either.

Oh sure. Europe could get gas from anywhere. If they want to pay double or 127% more which they could not afford even if they wanted to.

Europe Seen Paying Twice as Much to Replace Russian Gas

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-03-28/europe-seen-paying...

Europe Seen Paying Twice as Much to Replace Russian Gas. ... 37 percent in Germany and 16 percent in France. Belgium and Spain are among those who get no Russian fuel.

​

Europe’s natural gas prices would have to double to lure enough cargoes from the global market to replace Russian supplies, adding to the challenges of decreasing the region’s dependence on its neighbor.

Benchmark U.K. prices would need to rise 127 percent to attract liquefied natural gas if Europe had to replace all its Russian fuel for two summer months, according to Energy Aspects Ltd.

​

Edited December 2, 2015 by Harsh Jones

[Harsh Jones]

the gates fully already.

..the problem is that few refugees have the money to pay the traffickers and make it to Western Europe.Opened but not fully.

And they did the right thing as this way world awakened a bit.

Bc europe was thinking like it is turkey's problem to deal with muslim migrants (if syrians were christians, they have accepted most syrians already) until turkey relaxed its sea borders with greece.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/30/l-todd-wood-iraq-turkey-buying-isis-oil/

Former Iraqi member of Parliament Mowaffak al Rubaie has accused Turkey of turning a blind eye to the black market ISIS oil trade.

“In the last eight months ISIS has managed to sell … $800 million dollars worth of oil on the black market of Turkey.

accused of this and accused of that. Where are the facts? all countries are accused on something in this world.

Iraq is a a country where ISIS is living and residing now and clearly they do nothing. and you still listen that former something guy?

so now they blame Turks due to their impotence towards ISIS?

Isis sells smuggled oil to Turkey and Iraqi Kurds, says US ...

www.ft.com › World › US

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, known as Isis, is earning as much as $1m a day through the sale of oil to some of its biggest enemies: middlemen from Turkey ...

[Publicus]

Putin and Russia see Daesh as a threat and want to see it gone. Just not yet. Not until after Putin saves Assad. Until then keeping ISIS going in the ME is fine by Putin.

Abour 4000 Russians are fighting with Daesh. Another 6000 IS fighters originate from central Asian states that have visa free arrangements with Russia. Putin wants to keep these kind of numbers in the ME and away from Russia.

Putin's design is to take out the armed rebels supported by the US & Coalition with partners, to then leave the US with a Hobbesian choice of Assad or Daesh in charge.

Putin however didn't figure on Erdogan stepping in to shoot down Vlad's not so grand quick two-step to save Assad. Erdogan giving Vlad grief was not anticipated by Putin, not foreseen by Vlad, not considered a possibility. Putin is furious that anyone could swipe his knight like that. And a bishop too.

[craigt3365]

Pentagon Seeks Easing of Ban on Russian Rockets for U.S. ...

www.nytimes.com/.../pentagon-seeks-easing-of-ban-on-russian-rockets-for-...

Jun 3, 2015 - The Pentagon says that additional Russian engines will be needed for at least a few ... in fighting between Ukraine and pro-Russian separatists being removed from ... has imposed a raft of financial and travel sanctions against Russian officials, .... The Pentagon wants the company to be able to use the rest.

Germany Wants Russian Sanctions Lifted To Safeguard ...

www.ibtimes.com/germany-wants-russian-sanctions-lifted-safeguard-eco...

Jul 6, 2015 - A German lawmaker wants to lift Russian sanctions. Pictured above, a general view showing the Reichstag building, which seats the ...

Head of French Senate wants sanctions lifted off Russia ...

https://www.rt.com/politics/322531-head-of-french-senate-wants/

Nov 18, 2015 - President of French Senate Gerard Larcher strongly opposes sanctions against Russia and Russian parliamentarians, Federation Council ...

Seven EU countries support lifting sanctions on Russia ...

tass.ru/en/world/771324

Seven EU countries support the lifting of Western sanctions on Russia, a diplomatic source in ... “The sanctions' lifting has been supported by Austria, Hungary, Italy, Cyprus, Slovakia, France and the Czech Republic,” he said. ... Erdogan confirms he wants to hold talks with Putin ... Russia's gas pipelines to Europe by 2018.

Not credible news sources. The sanctions are in force and doesn't seem to be a desire to eliminate them. Especially now. I may be wrong, if so, a credible news source please.

[craigt3365]

Isis sells smuggled oil to Turkey and Iraqi Kurds, says US ...

www.ft.com › World › US

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, known as Isis, is earning as much as $1m a day through the sale of oil to some of its biggest enemies: middlemen from Turkey ...

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-selling-oil-to-biggest-enemy-2015-11

SIS is selling oil to the Syrian regime

Syria needs oil to fight these wars, and since ISIS controls a significant amount of the oil production infrastructure in the country, they are forced to buy oil from ISIS.

In addition to selling to Syria, ISIS also sells oil to black market traders in the region, who sell the oil to rebel groups or people living in areas that ISIS controls.

Every country surrounding Syria is involved in this. Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey, Syria, etc. It's all about money.

[maykilceksin]

the gates fully already.

..the problem is that few refugees have the money to pay the traffickers and make it to Western Europe.Opened but not fully.

And they did the right thing as this way world awakened a bit.

Bc europe was thinking like it is turkey's problem to deal with muslim migrants (if syrians were christians, they have accepted most syrians already) until turkey relaxed its sea borders with greece.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/30/l-todd-wood-iraq-turkey-buying-isis-oil/

Former Iraqi member of Parliament Mowaffak al Rubaie has accused Turkey of turning a blind eye to the black market ISIS oil trade.

“In the last eight months ISIS has managed to sell … $800 million dollars worth of oil on the black market of Turkey.

accused of this and accused of that. Where are the facts? all countries are accused on something in this world.

Iraq is a a country where ISIS is living and residing now and clearly they do nothing. and you still listen that former something guy?

so now they blame Turks due to their impotence towards ISIS?

Isis sells smuggled oil to Turkey and Iraqi Kurds, says US ...

www.ft.com › World › US

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, known as Isis, is earning as much as $1m a day through the sale of oil to some of its biggest enemies: middlemen from Turkey ...

This is not a fact!

It is just like Kurds say thos and that.

But currently us banned some russians and russian companies involved in oil trade with ISIS.

that is a fact.