Thailand advised to raise retirement age

[elgordo38]

Ponzi schemes never ever worked!

It's the same here as everywhere else: The state fails to fulfil its contractual agreement as the scheme must go bankrupt.

Solution of the state: Break the contract and rise the retirement age. Then rise / use additional taxes. But eventually the scheme must implode.

Every private (even non-profit) enterprise with such a business model would immediately be declared as a criminal organisation.

It has nothing to do with any ethics or philosophy. It's just a fact: Ponzi schemes don't work. And yes, ponzi schemes are highly immoral, btw.

The sooner you stop believing in the state, its competence and its promises, the better for you.

I think we will escape the collapse of the pension Ponzi scheme but just by the skin of our teeth. The ones coming after us well not so lucky. Baby boomers are already in retirement or gearing up. They are downsizing houses,cars you name the stuff that keeps our economy rolling. The Millenniums another breed of cat. They do not want all the McMansions, people mover vans, 2 or 3 cars in the family 3 or 4 children that the baby boomers had in the "good" old days. They look at their parents lifestyle with envy but realize they cannot afford it and it is just not in the cards for them along with jobs with benefits and generous pension plans. They also realize that their generation will not be producing the large numbers of children required to as adults pay into the pension ponzi scheme to support them some decades down the road when they will receive their brass watch. They want their fun now on a different scale eating out, travelling, gadgets. In reality saving is for suckers the way the world is structured at present and I personally think that it will stay this way unless something catastrophic happens which I would not rule out.

[Srikcir]

"if the poverty rate among the elderly becomes acute, the state may need to provide welfare assistance"

Whatever happened to Prayut's idea that Thailand is caught in a middle income trap? Sounds like Thailand is also stuck in a welfare trap as well, neither of which bodes well for the nation's immediate economic future.

[swissbie]

No Danish readers (writers) here on TV? As i understand they have the retirement age at 67 now and they are planing to raise it up to 74, but that will be in line with the higher life expectancy over a long period of time. Besides, who hires over 60 years olds? Who thinks that banking and financal systems will remain intact until then? But yes, old-age provision is a huge challenge for Thailand.

[laislica]

In the UK the workers pay every month into the fund towards their retirement.

The government simply use the money for anything but pensions.

Then they have the brass face to say that it's an entitlement, not a right, that they don't have enough money...... If the money we paid went into a proper retirement fund, it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!

Let's say we take 20,000 a year, that means we can live on 20k per year for 45 years, not counting the interest payments on the undrawn money!

Stop stealing pension contributions!

''... it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!''

Calculated by whom...where is this calculation. Using your own figures (excluding interest) to get to £900 000 in the first place you'd have to be putting in an average of £20 000 a year working for 45 years for a complete non-entitlement pension worth £900 000. Are UK citizens really paying £850 (with governmemt matching 100%) a month into the government pension plan?

Perhaps you don't understand how the contributions are made?

The worker gives 5% of his pay and his employer gives an additional 15%. Thats20% of the workers pay every month.

Additionally, the government give tax breaks for pension contributions.

Add compound interest and use the figures that were current during the average retirees lifetime......

My estimate gives you a plan that extends 45 yrs after age 65 = age 110 for goodness sake!

ok! So halve my estimate and have 23 years = 88, not counting interest on the undrawn amount.

This is with £20k per annum whilst the gov give about £10k!

Ok so only take a quarter of my estimate

£200k at £10k per year = age 85, again not counting interest on the undrawn!

If the gov really put the money into a proper secure pension fund, we would not need to rely on the earnings of our children to provide our pensions.

I suppose you remember what the Road Fund was for?

Well, they changed that to road tax and now complain there is no money to mend the roads.

It's the same BS over and over again.

I hope this explanation helps you see how we are being screwed!

[elgordo38]

No Danish readers (writers) here on TV? As i understand they have the retirement age at 67 now and they are planing to raise it up to 74, but that will be in line with the higher life expectancy over a long period of time. Besides, who hires over 60 years olds? Who thinks that banking and financal systems will remain intact until then? But yes, old-age provision is a huge challenge for Thailand.

Just to elaborate on your statement I know I am going down 5 years to 55 but the majority of jobs created in October 2015 in the USA was for people 55 and up. It seems that these people do not party all night and show up for work and do not make as many demands. I did not mean to rain on your parade. I hope you find a kindred spirit from Denmark.

Edited November 26, 2015 by elgordo38

[elgordo38]

In the UK the workers pay every month into the fund towards their retirement.

The government simply use the money for anything but pensions.

Then they have the brass face to say that it's an entitlement, not a right, that they don't have enough money...... If the money we paid went into a proper retirement fund, it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!

Let's say we take 20,000 a year, that means we can live on 20k per year for 45 years, not counting the interest payments on the undrawn money!

Stop stealing pension contributions!

''... it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!''

Calculated by whom...where is this calculation. Using your own figures (excluding interest) to get to £900 000 in the first place you'd have to be putting in an average of £20 000 a year working for 45 years for a complete non-entitlement pension worth £900 000. Are UK citizens really paying £850 (with governmemt matching 100%) a month into the government pension plan?

Perhaps you don't understand how the contributions are made?

The worker gives 5% of his pay and his employer gives an additional 15%. Thats20% of the workers pay every month.

Additionally, the government give tax breaks for pension contributions.

Add compound interest and use the figures that were current during the average retirees lifetime......

My estimate gives you a plan that extends 45 yrs after age 65 = age 110 for goodness sake!

ok! So halve my estimate and have 23 years = 88, not counting interest on the undrawn amount.

This is with £20k per annum whilst the gov give about £10k!

Ok so only take a quarter of my estimate

£200k at £10k per year = age 85, again not counting interest on the undrawn!

If the gov really put the money into a proper secure pension fund, we would not need to rely on the earnings of our children to provide our pensions.

I suppose you remember what the Road Fund was for?

Well, they changed that to road tax and now complain there is no money to mend the roads.

It's the same BS over and over again.

I hope this explanation helps you see how we are being screwed!

Yes I feel it every time I sit down or open my pension deposits online like I did today.

[elgordo38]

In the UK the workers pay every month into the fund towards their retirement.

The government simply use the money for anything but pensions.

Then they have the brass face to say that it's an entitlement, not a right, that they don't have enough money...... If the money we paid went into a proper retirement fund, it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!

Let's say we take 20,000 a year, that means we can live on 20k per year for 45 years, not counting the interest payments on the undrawn money!

Stop stealing pension contributions!

''... it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!''

Calculated by whom...where is this calculation. Using your own figures (excluding interest) to get to £900 000 in the first place you'd have to be putting in an average of £20 000 a year working for 45 years for a complete non-entitlement pension worth £900 000. Are UK citizens really paying £850 (with governmemt matching 100%) a month into the government pension plan?

Perhaps you don't understand how the contributions are made?

The worker gives 5% of his pay and his employer gives an additional 15%. Thats20% of the workers pay every month.

Additionally, the government give tax breaks for pension contributions.

Add compound interest and use the figures that were current during the average retirees lifetime......

My estimate gives you a plan that extends 45 yrs after age 65 = age 110 for goodness sake!

ok! So halve my estimate and have 23 years = 88, not counting interest on the undrawn amount.

This is with £20k per annum whilst the gov give about £10k!

Ok so only take a quarter of my estimate

£200k at £10k per year = age 85, again not counting interest on the undrawn!

If the gov really put the money into a proper secure pension fund, we would not need to rely on the earnings of our children to provide our pensions.

I suppose you remember what the Road Fund was for?

Well, they changed that to road tax and now complain there is no money to mend the roads.

It's the same BS over and over again.

I hope this explanation helps you see how we are being screwed!

Your employer triples matches you? Sounds a bit steep to me usually its just dollar for dollar.

[White Christmas13]

So tell me who get's a pension in Thailand I know former government employees do

maybe teachers but what about the old ladies selling fried chicken or bananas

do they get a pension as well since they never paid in to a pension fund or taxes

[Sabrinus]

She states that Thai's live until at least 75 ! dont think so, just checked the WHO life expentacy and for Thailand is 70.

Maybe she wants the retirement age to 75 like demark and won't have to pay a penny then, lol.

[laislica]

In the UK the workers pay every month into the fund towards their retirement.

The government simply use the money for anything but pensions.

Then they have the brass face to say that it's an entitlement, not a right, that they don't have enough money...... If the money we paid went into a proper retirement fund, it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!

Let's say we take 20,000 a year, that means we can live on 20k per year for 45 years, not counting the interest payments on the undrawn money!

Stop stealing pension contributions!

''... it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!''

Calculated by whom...where is this calculation. Using your own figures (excluding interest) to get to £900 000 in the first place you'd have to be putting in an average of £20 000 a year working for 45 years for a complete non-entitlement pension worth £900 000. Are UK citizens really paying £850 (with governmemt matching 100%) a month into the government pension plan?

Perhaps you don't understand how the contributions are made?

The worker gives 5% of his pay and his employer gives an additional 15%. Thats20% of the workers pay every month.

Additionally, the government give tax breaks for pension contributions.

Add compound interest and use the figures that were current during the average retirees lifetime......

My estimate gives you a plan that extends 45 yrs after age 65 = age 110 for goodness sake!

ok! So halve my estimate and have 23 years = 88, not counting interest on the undrawn amount.

This is with £20k per annum whilst the gov give about £10k!

Ok so only take a quarter of my estimate

£200k at £10k per year = age 85, again not counting interest on the undrawn!

If the gov really put the money into a proper secure pension fund, we would not need to rely on the earnings of our children to provide our pensions.

I suppose you remember what the Road Fund was for?

Well, they changed that to road tax and now complain there is no money to mend the roads.

It's the same BS over and over again.

I hope this explanation helps you see how we are being screwed!

Yes I feel it every time I sit down or open my pension deposits online like I did today.

Lucky for me I also paid into a private "Works" pension all my working life and the annual sum from that allows us to live comfortably.

The state pension alone would keep me in poverty if I was living in the UK and having to pay the excessive heating bills etc.

[soomak]

So tell me who get's a pension in Thailand I know former government employees do

maybe teachers but what about the old ladies selling fried chicken or bananas

do they get a pension as well since they never paid in to a pension fund or taxes

The old ladies selling fried chicken, fruit and orange juice, along with any other self-employed person in Thailand, do not get a pension.

What they do get is a very low (people mentioned php 500-800 per month) monthly payment from the government that's given to old people.

I'm guessing the minimum age to receive such a payment is 55 (the retirement age), but I don't know.

[White Christmas13]

So tell me who get's a pension in Thailand I know former government employees do

maybe teachers but what about the old ladies selling fried chicken or bananas

do they get a pension as well since they never paid in to a pension fund or taxes

The old ladies selling fried chicken, fruit and orange juice, along with any other self-employed person in Thailand, do not get a pension.

What they do get is a very low (people mentioned php 500-800 per month) monthly payment from the government that's given to old people.

I'm guessing the minimum age to receive such a payment is 55 (the retirement age), but I don't know.

So if you are sick/disabled you got to live on that? Shocking

[DrTuner]

The problem with all of these retirement and pension schemes is that they are Ponzi in nature. Nobody has a plan for economic contraction nor carrying capacity or depletion of resources. Someone is going to be left holding the bag. But then again, that is the problem with all fiat currencies and not just the pensions.

There's a bit of a difference. When the oldies finally croak, they leave an inheritance to those who paid for it. Unless they blew it off on katoys in Pattaya, that is.

[laislica]

In the UK the workers pay every month into the fund towards their retirement.

The government simply use the money for anything but pensions.

Then they have the brass face to say that it's an entitlement, not a right, that they don't have enough money...... If the money we paid went into a proper retirement fund, it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!

Let's say we take 20,000 a year, that means we can live on 20k per year for 45 years, not counting the interest payments on the undrawn money!

Stop stealing pension contributions!

''... it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!''

Calculated by whom...where is this calculation. Using your own figures (excluding interest) to get to £900 000 in the first place you'd have to be putting in an average of £20 000 a year working for 45 years for a complete non-entitlement pension worth £900 000. Are UK citizens really paying £850 (with governmemt matching 100%) a month into the government pension plan?

This is where I got the jist of my post:-

THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH THE GOVERNMENT'S CALCULATION OF AVAILABLE PENSION IS THAT THEY FORGOT TO FIGURE IN ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DIED BEFORE THEY EVER COLLECTED OLD AGE PENSION.

WHERE DID ALL THAT MONEY GO?

Remember, not only did you and I contribute to our Pension, our employer did, too. It totalled 15% of your income before taxes.

If you averaged only £15 000 over your working life, that's close to £220,500. Read that again. Did you see anywhere that the Government paid in one single penny?

We are talking about the money you and your employer put in a Government bank to ensure that you and I would have a

retirement pension from the money we put in, it was not money that the Government had any right to spend elsewhere.

Now they've started to call the money we paid in an

'entitlement' when we reach the age to take it back.

If you calculate the future invested value of £2500 per year

(yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5%

interest (that's less than what the govt. pays on the money that it borrows from overseas), after 49 years of working you'd have

£892,919.98.

If you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive £26,787.60 per

year and it would last better than 30 years (that means until you're 95 if you retire at age 65) and that's with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit!

If you bought an annuity with the money and it paid 4% per year, you'd have a lifetime income of £1976.40 per month.

THE CROOKS IN GOVERNMENT HAVE PULLED OFF A BIGGER ROBBERY THAN THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERS EVER DID.

Entitlement!!??

My foot !! IT'S MY MONEY!! I paid IN cash for my pension.

Just because they borrowed the money to spend on other things, that doesn't make my pension some kind of charity or handout!!

Remember MP's benefits? ---

free healthcare,

outrageous retirement packages,

67 days paid holidays,

three weeks paid holidays,

unlimited paid sick days.

Now that really should be called welfare entitlements, yet they have the nerve to call my O A P retirement payments entitlements?

We're "broke" and the government can't help our own OAPs, our ex-service personnel, our orphans or our homeless

Yet in the past few years we have provided aid to Haiti, Chile, Turkey, India, Pakistan, etc., etc., etc. Literally, BILLIONS of Pounds !!!

But they can't help our own citizens!

Our retired seniors living on a 'fixed old age pension have to beg social services to receive additional aid, while our government and religious organizations pour hundreds of billions of £££ tons of food to foreign countries!

They call the old age pension an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives, and now, when it's time for us to collect, the government is running out of money.

Why did the government borrow from it in the first place?

It was supposed to be in a securely locked box, not to be used as part of the Government's general funds.

[elgordo38]

So tell me who get's a pension in Thailand I know former government employees do

maybe teachers but what about the old ladies selling fried chicken or bananas

do they get a pension as well since they never paid in to a pension fund or taxes

The old ladies selling fried chicken, fruit and orange juice, along with any other self-employed person in Thailand, do not get a pension.

What they do get is a very low (people mentioned php 500-800 per month) monthly payment from the government that's given to old people.

I'm guessing the minimum age to receive such a payment is 55 (the retirement age), but I don't know.

They get as much as their children can afford to send them on a monthly basis. Thailand's informal pension plan. God bless these kids. All my kids at home tell me they expect money when I die. Coming to Thailand sure opened my eyes on this subject. Families keep putting so much emphasis on having sons but its the daughters that do ALL the heavy lifting. That's why older farangs like myself are so in style.

[bangon04]

I thought Thailand was investing heavily in an alternative strategy - to significantly increase early deaths by means of Diabetes, Dengue, Hypertension through salt overdose, MSG and aspartane poisoning, obesity-related death through western junk foods, drug related deaths, world-leading road traffic fatalities and alcohol poisoning/liver failure rates, plus high school gunfights with home-made pistols.

This strategy, raising the retirement age to 60, coupled with region-leading teenage pregnancy rates, should soon redress the balance.

[MoTheo]

"She raised the example of Denmark, which raised the retirement age to 75 years to cope with an average life expectancy of 90 years. Thailand should do the same because Thais retire at 55 on average but their life expectancy is about 75 years, which means the government will have to pay for pensions for 20 years."

Well, yesss, if Thailand did like Denmark and had its people work till 75, when they expire, that would certainly solve the pension-funding problem.

But this is regression to an earlier, more brutal time. Retirement was a concept that was fought for for centuries. It may be disappearing, and not just in Thailand, but in the developed countries. Is that what we deserve, and what is the promise of capitalism anyway? Given that we produce more goods and stuff than ever, shouldn't workers at least be guaranteed a retirement, assuming they live to retirement age?

"She raised the example of Denmark, which raised the retirement age to 75 years to cope with an average life expectancy of 90 years.

Where did she get that from?...The retirement age in DK is 68 for public age pension, for all persons born after 31 December 1962.

[soomak]

So tell me who get's a pension in Thailand I know former government employees do

maybe teachers but what about the old ladies selling fried chicken or bananas

do they get a pension as well since they never paid in to a pension fund or taxes

The old ladies selling fried chicken, fruit and orange juice, along with any other self-employed person in Thailand, do not get a pension.

What they do get is a very low (people mentioned php 500-800 per month) monthly payment from the government that's given to old people.

I'm guessing the minimum age to receive such a payment is 55 (the retirement age), but I don't know.

They get as much as their children can afford to send them on a monthly basis. Thailand's informal pension plan. God bless these kids. All my kids at home tell me they expect money when I die. Coming to Thailand sure opened my eyes on this subject. Families keep putting so much emphasis on having sons but its the daughters that do ALL the heavy lifting. That's why older farangs like myself are so in style.

Nothing special or unique about "Thailand's informal pension plan"... making children so that they take care of you when you are old was the norm all over the world, and still is the norm in most poor / developing countries.

I recall the modern social security system was invented in Germany circa 1870, but maybe I'm wrong here.

Personally I think a national social security method is better, as it also takes care of those without kids and those who's kids can't help them.

BTW, for a country without a functional social security plan for old age, Thai's seem to have very few children - roughly 1.6-1.8 per woman on average. So there seems to be a bit of conundrum here.

[LannaGuy]

"living standards of retirees falling below a "living status" level, but from the point of view of sustainability, this is seen as a positive, as it imposes a limited burden on state finances"

says it all... poor seen as "positive" for State Finances... disgusting

[connda]

In the UK the workers pay every month into the fund towards their retirement.

The government simply use the money for anything but pensions.

Then they have the brass face to say that it's an entitlement, not a right, that they don't have enough money...... If the money we paid went into a proper retirement fund, it has been calculated that by age 65 we would each have more than £900,000 in our fund!

Let's say we take 20,000 a year, that means we can live on 20k per year for 45 years, not counting the interest payments on the undrawn money!

Stop stealing pension contributions!

Wow, sounds like the US Social Security system. You pay 7 to 14% of your income into the Social Security system, which the government dumps into the 'General Fund' to be used for anything they want (wars being their favorite past-time), then when it's time to collect, the politicians come out of the wood-work to label SS pensioners has low-life scum feeding off of 'Entitlements' to the determent of the country. Hell, I just want the money back that I put into the system. Pay me back everything that I paid in, lump-sum, and I'll be happy to never ask the guberment for other dime.

Social Security is an 'entitlement' that I paid into the government coffers that the government owes me when I reach retirement age, just like my Individual Retirement Account is an 'entitlement' that I paid to a brokerage firm which they owe me when I reach the age to withdraw the funds.

[connda]

Wifey's mum and dad get 500 bht each per month as their state pension.

Quite the 'safety net'. 30 baht healthcare to take care of you as you starve to death.