Where would you store $2000 a month for a 15 year savings plan?

[Gutenberg]

It's such a nice topic with interesting posts but then - of course - those gold jesters are lurking around diluting everything.

[Ks45672]

Gold (AU) and nothing BUT Gold (Au). Physical Gold in you hand. ..925% or 965% or .999% It has value for 5,000+ Years and will have value for another 5,000+ Years. Me and 5 Kg's. of 96.42% Dore Gold in my hands. Yeah, it's Gold and ONLY Gold. IMHO!

Why is one of your "5 kilo bars of gold" bar looking smaller than the rest?

Are you sure it's not 4.5kg of goooold

[sir charles IV]

There are many investment firms in Walking Street the business center of pattaya. The return is fantastic. You can diversify. No lock in contracts unless you wish. Friendly and obliging staff who will cater for all your needs. After all you're investing for a good life I hope.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Investing in any country with Political or Economical uncertainty is always a bad idea regardless of the rewards. Would you have bought Greece Government Bonds last year, just because they were paying 10 times more than USA Treasury Bonds, with 100 times likely to default and pay you nothing? The world is full of examples of that. Brazil right now has had its stock market crash based on a few high rollers caught with there hand in the cookie jar (corruption). Argentina closing the bank doors a few years ago so you couldn't take any money out and inflation running high.

Look what happened to Oil and Mining Companies in Venezuela when the government took them over without payment? The large Oil Companies were okay, as they were diversified, but what of the companies who strictly dealt in Venezuela? I know of one Gold Mining Stock that traded around $20 a Share, and because of this, traded at pennies a share right after. Is this the kind of stock you want to be holding in your 14th years of saving for Retirement? Even if your stock survives the Stock Market Crash you end up with Hyper Inflation, so any money you do have left is worthless.

Professional Investor don't take big risks because they don't need to. You don't see Warren Buffet investing Billions of Dollars in the Thailand Stock Market, so unless you know what you are doing, you shouldn't either. Stick to your Home Country Blue Chip Dividend Paying Stocks, and you can hardly go wrong this way. As your wealth grows, diversify into other companies. A lot has to do with how many years you can invest before Retirement and thus the risk you are willing to take now.

[crazykopite]

Do not invest it in Thailand or on a Thai woman !!!!

[fletchsmile]

Thats solid Ayg...American...I live in Thailand...i have no idea where i want to retire...possibly Thailand but most likely not the USA.... I am 40 I have no pension provisions and my reason to invest is to make sure i can eat pay bills and feel comfortable when i become old man winter and invalid....

As an American these days, you will find it difficult to open investment accounts in Thailand, thanks to the actions of Uncle Sam, and it's becoming increasingly difficult so there's the risk that even if you find a route it may get closed down the line. Banks and other financial investment providers are increasingly not taking new US clients. One of my providers actually wrote to me a couple of years back saying they wanted to close my mutual fund accounts as I was American. Actually I'm not, so could keep the accounts open, but highlights the direction.

Also even if you find a provider you're happy with to take out products, what is suitable for other nationalities may not be suitable for US citizens because of tax. Long Term Equity Funds (LTFs) are an example here. A great product and tax efficient for many non-US investors, but less clear benefits and more complicated for US citizens because of tax. Maybe an experienced US investor can navigate their way around these things, but probably not advisable for someone new without experience and solid knowledge from elsewhere to build on. Sounds like that isn't you though based on what you've written.

Additionally, when looking at the experience of local Thai providers of investments, banks, fund managers etc, their understanding of international impacts and expats is limited. So my advice would be for investments, you'll probably be better looking outside Thailand. US is an obvious choice to look for help. Singapore is more international, but again not always easy for US citizens, but easier than Thailand, and more used to dealing with expats.

The good news is that you can open bank accounts here. If you're going to spend time here, then building some THB assets or income streams makes sense to reduce your currency risks. So THB bank accounts are a good basic start to have in place if you're going to be here long time. Might not be the most exciting thing, but putting some money away each month in a separate THB cash bank account could be a solid move, for part of your solution.

Also you say you don't have anything for pensions and sounds like not much for investments. Before rushing off to buy investments products, make sure you have a reasonable cash reserve, and some form of emergency cash fund. Last thing you want to do is take out potentially high reward investment products and then have to sell them if something comes up. Life is uncertain. You could end up selling at a bad time.

So basically:

1) Look into building some THB cash reserves here. You can open bank accounts, and it will make many aspects of life easier, as well as hep reduce your currency risk. If (when) the USD starts to weaken again, you'll be happy you did. Even if you don't go for THB in Thailand, at least have cash reserves somewhere. get into the habit of sticking some money away each month into a decent savings account.

2) Look outside Thailand for investments. US is an obvious starting point if you still have access / contact. Might be worth looking regionally in Singapore who will be more international

Cheers

Fletch

Edited November 28, 2015 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

Do not invest it in Thailand or on a Thai woman !!!!

Probably good advice if you don't know what you are doing with either

On the other hand, if you educate yourself there's some very worthwhile investments here, and also the question of whether you can afford not to investment in Thailand if you understand currency risks, wealth planning etc. Same applies to Thai women

Personally I'm very happy I've done so for both - especially the time invested

[fletchsmile]

Gold (AU) and nothing BUT Gold (Au). Physical Gold in you hand. ..925% or 965% or .999% It has value for 5,000+ Years and will have value for another 5,000+ Years. Me and 5 Kg's. of 96.42% Dore Gold in my hands. Yeah, it's Gold and ONLY Gold. IMHO!

Nice picture. So which chocolate bars did you take the wrappers off?

Yes gold will have some value. Still in a downtrend though: 2013 down, 2014, down, 2015 down, and doesn't look so good for the near term either. Will be worth something as you say, how much is the difficult part LOL. Really not a place to put all your investments at this point in time. Certainly not for someone starting out.

Edited November 28, 2015 by fletchsmile

[WorkingTourist]

In spite of political turmoil Thailand Index SET the past decades had performed extremely well ( +18 % a year in average ) because the Thai economy ignored the demonstrations.

Opening up on AEC 2015 to trade with 9 other partners plus a new Government redressing past errors, omissions etc....Thailand has a great potential.

Therefore look for Thai Military Bank TMB SET 50 fund at very low cost outperforming the Index you should not have any hesitation to join in.

The SET 50 Index tracked here shows an annualized yield of around 3.9% p.a. (over the last five years).

[AyG]

In spite of political turmoil Thailand Index SET the past decades had performed extremely well ( +18 % a year in average ) because the Thai economy ignored the demonstrations.

Opening up on AEC 2015 to trade with 9 other partners plus a new Government redressing past errors, omissions etc....Thailand has a great potential.

Therefore look for Thai Military Bank TMB SET 50 fund at very low cost outperforming the Index you should not have any hesitation to join in.

The SET 50 Index tracked here shows an annualized yield of around 3.9% p.a. (over the last five years).

(1) The SET 50 is not the SET. The former only includes the largest capitalised stocks. Smaller cap stocks typically outperform their larger brethren.

(2) The SET 50 index does not include dividend income so understates performance by around slightly over 4%/year.

That said, I do rather doubt brd's assertion about +18%/year on average. Over the last 5 years ThaiDEX SET50 (ETF) has returned an annualised 7.97% (Source: Morningstar Thailand).

[jinners]

Hi, I'm not sure I can help you but I'd need some further details first, and then obviously a meeting. It's far too important to go over here on TV. Please let me have your details via a PM if you'd like me to offer some assistance.

[craigt3365]

Thats solid Ayg...American...I live in Thailand...i have no idea where i want to retire...possibly Thailand but most likely not the USA.... I am 40 I have no pension provisions and my reason to invest is to make sure i can eat pay bills and feel comfortable when i become old man winter and invalid....

Really sorry to hear that you're an American. That really sucks. America is one of only two countries in the world that taxes its nationals on their worldwide income. (The other is Eritrea.) You should at least consider renouncing US citizenship if your unlikely to retire there.

The other implication of being an American is that you are basically restricted to US investments; overseas funds won't usually accept you as an investor.

Not being American, I can't really comment on the challenges of opening a brokerage account in the US whilst non-resident, though I understand it can be difficult. That's something you'll need to look into.

You also need to look into whether you're eligible for any tax-privileged accounts. I don't know the details, but I hear terms like Roth IRAs and 401(K) plans bandied about. Don't know if either is relevant to your situation.

On the plus side, you've got a decent amount of time to retirement, perhaps 25 years. That means you can reasonably take on higher risk investments, rather than stashing all your money in the bank or in bonds. In practice, that means buying equity mutual funds or ETFs.

Don't fall into the trap of just buying US stocks (via funds/ETFs). It's a common mistake to overweight one's investments to one's home country. There's no reason to think that US markets will outperform over any given time period. As well as the US, invest in Europe, Asia Pacific, Emerging Markets. This is particular relevant since you say you're unlikely to retire to the US.

Finally, you need to consider whether you're saving enough each month. If you save $2,000/month over 25 years you'll save $600,000. (That's ignoring both the effects of inflation and any growth in investment value, so is a conservative figure.) When you start drawing on your investments you can probably safely withdraw 4% each year, that's $24,000/year. That's not an enormous amount to live on, even in Thailand. And an unexpected accident or medical bill might severely dent your savings, so reducing potential future income. If you can increase your savings to $3,000/month you'll be in a rather more comfortable position.

That's actually not true. You don't pay for the first 90k or so of earned income while overseas. You would pay taxes on non-earned income, like investments. As for taxes, the US has one of the lowest marginal tax rates among western nations. I just spent the night with a guy from Scandinavia. Talk about taxes. Wow...and he can't be out of the country for more than 6 months or he loses all his benefits. I did my taxes this year and the rate was incredibly low. Great tax accountant. My rate was 15% on my non-earned income.

Renouncing your citizenship due to taxes, unless incredibly rich, is a silly thing to do. Also not true about being restricted to US investments. I've plenty of overseas funds in my portfolio. And easy to open a brokerage account while overseas. I just did it. Though unable to invest in US based mutual funds. ETFs, etc, are fine.

For the OP, as a newbie, I'd suggest following the Boggle Head's advice.

https://www.bogleheads.org/

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Bogleheads%C2%AE_investment_philosophy

http://www.forbes.com/sites/thebogleheadsview/

[BudRight]

If you're going to invest in stocks wait for the next crash. Don't worry there will be one; there is always another one. When you invest matters. People repeat that "the ups and down don't matter in the long term" because that's what stock salesmen tell them.

Look at this chart. If you'd bought the index in Jan-00 you'd still be out money...and you can't tell me you think there's much upside in this chart for the near-term.

[GuestHouse]

Follow Warren Buffet's advice, invest in an index fund linked to the S&P 500 (via a low management fee platform).

And if you can shelter that from tax do so.

Oh and ignore any offers you receive via private messages here on TVF to help you make your fortune.... avoid any 'investment advisors' in Thailand period.

[fireplay]

If you're going to invest in stocks wait for the next crash. Don't worry there will be one; there is always another one. When you invest matters. People repeat that "the ups and down don't matter in the long term" because that's what stock salesmen tell them.

Look at this chart. If you'd bought the index in Jan-00 you'd still be out money...and you can't tell me you think there's much upside in this chart for the near-term.

Hey thanks to mostly everyone for you advice and considerations...I do feel I kind of represent that growing population of people who need to start thinking about how we are going to survive when we get too old to work...who have lived thus far a life of freedom and without the security (or confines) of a big company with a fat pension; or regular payments in SS as an American living abroad. I am reading everyone's mostly thoughtful responses and I do have a question....Mr. budright....i am in agreement with your projection of a certain crash...in your opinion what does one do NOW with the monthly savings assets to wait it out?

I am not really a gold gollum sorta guy but i do have friends who are burying precious minerals in secret treasure mapped holes....what else?

[BudRight]

If you're going to invest in stocks wait for the next crash. Don't worry there will be one; there is always another one. When you invest matters. People repeat that "the ups and down don't matter in the long term" because that's what stock salesmen tell them.

Look at this chart. If you'd bought the index in Jan-00 you'd still be out money...and you can't tell me you think there's much upside in this chart for the near-term.

Hey thanks to mostly everyone for you advice and considerations...I do feel I kind of represent that growing population of people who need to start thinking about how we are going to survive when we get too old to work...who have lived thus far a life of freedom and without the security (or confines) of a big company with a fat pension; or regular payments in SS as an American living abroad. I am reading everyone's mostly thoughtful responses and I do have a question....Mr. budright....i am in agreement with your projection of a certain crash...in your opinion what does one do NOW with the monthly savings assets to wait it out?

I am not really a gold gollum sorta guy but i do have friends who are burying precious minerals in secret treasure mapped holes....what else?

I have mine in a money market account. Cash basically.

I also own a slightly riskier money market fund, which I expect to make money as debt becomes expensive again. The longer central banks wait to raise rates, the more expensive debt will have to be to fix the mess.

[WorkingTourist]

If you're going to invest in stocks wait for the next crash. Don't worry there will be one; there is always another one. When you invest matters. People repeat that "the ups and down don't matter in the long term" because that's what stock salesmen tell them.

The subject of timing the market vs time in the market is discussed in more detail here http://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/08/passive-active-investing.asp

Look at this chart. If you'd bought the index in Jan-00 you'd still be out money...and you can't tell me you think there's much upside in this chart for the near-term.

The NASDAQ index is not a diversified index. It’s a stock exchange dominated by technology companies, and we all know how crazy the tech valuations were around Jan-00.

When looking at historic stock market performance the S&P 500 index is normally used.

If we invested $2,000 monthly since Jan-00 (a total of $380,000 invested) then the annualized return would be 7.5% and portfolio value today (after capital gains tax) would be $671,638.

http://dqydj.net/sp-500-dividend-reinvestment-and-periodic-investment-calculator/

[blueyeshk]

50% gold, 50% renewable energy etf.

[DirtyDan]

Study the classic car market closely. Borrow 300k from the bank and buy two or three cars, For example .... 308/328 Ferrari, E-type Jaguar, Porsche 993 Turbo etc. Pay the bank back the $2000 a month you would save and watch these three cars outstrip any other investment.

While I don't disagree classic cars usually increase in value, the risks are not stated.

1/ Risk of buying a lemon classic.

2/ Risk of lack of diversification.

3/ Risk of the bank calling in the loan with no notice. Yes, it has happened.

4/ Risk of all the Baby-Boomers dying and no one left wanting to collect old cars = market crashes.

[fletchsmile]

Follow Warren Buffet's advice, invest in an index fund linked to the S&P 500 (via a low management fee platform).

And if you can shelter that from tax do so.

Oh and ignore any offers you receive via private messages here on TVF to help you make your fortune.... avoid any 'investment advisors' in Thailand period.

Ignoring PM's from investment advisors is good advice

Warren Buffet's advice that gets quoted in recent years makes me smile. Don't do as I did and make yourself a multi-billionaire, but do as I say and pick an index tracker. I think it also gets pulled a bit out of context too

[Misty]

Follow Warren Buffet's advice, invest in an index fund linked to the S&P 500 (via a low management fee platform).

And if you can shelter that from tax do so.

Oh and ignore any offers you receive via private messages here on TVF to help you make your fortune.... avoid any 'investment advisors' in Thailand period.

Ignoring PM's from investment advisors is good advice

Warren Buffet's advice that gets quoted in recent years makes me smile. Don't do as I did and make yourself a multi-billionaire, but do as I say and pick an index tracker. I think it also gets pulled a bit out of context too

I agree with the above. I'd amend this to say avoid anyone calling themselves an "investment advisor" or "financial advisor" but who is really just selling offshore "schemes" or "savings plans". These are unnecessary high fee insurance-wrapped products. And the "advisors" are not advisors at all, but salesmen looking for quick commission. Their interests are not aligned with yours. Their "advice" is very unlikely to be in your best interest. Read the Hallam book I suggested previously if you need more detail. Or google these products, there is plenty of warning on the web about them.

[fletchsmile]

fireplay.

You are lucky to be able to benefit from investing for yourself on a monthly basis to average down and long term, allowing you to be outperforming 85 % of all the fund managers.

In spite of political turmoil Thailand Index SET the past decades had performed extremely well ( +18 % a year in average ) because the Thai economy ignored the demonstrations.

Opening up on AEC 2015 to trade with 9 other partners plus a new Government redressing past errors, omissions etc....Thailand has a great potential.

Therefore look for Thai Military Bank TMB SET 50 fund at very low cost outperforming the Index you should not have any hesitation to join in.

I am a professional Investor and I am recommending index fund prior anything else.

If you do not like Thailand go for USA then.

Kind regards

For OP it's probably a moot point, as he won't be able to invest in TMB's Thai tracker funds being a US national.

However, for yourself, when it comes to Thailand, consider taking a look at UOB Good Corporate Governance LTF and Aberdeen LTF compared to the SET index since LTFs came out around 2004. Going back further Aberdeen Growth is another. Look back to inception in the 1990's compared to the index. I hold all 3 and am sure glad I didn't pick an index tracker but did my research and have continued to research year after year in Thailand since the 1990's.

Bualuang LTF and Bualuang Top Ten are 2 other quality Thai equity funds to consider - I don't hold them as my provider doesn't offer them - but they're consistently up there year after year

I happen to hold a little of one of TMB's Thailand equity index tracker funds - mainly out of interest to compare plus a couple of other reasons - but for the last nearly 2 decades I'm sure glad I didn't stick my money in a Thai index tracker and researched the appropriate active management Thai equity funds instead

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.th/doc.nsf/Lit/FactsheetThailandOpenABG

http://www.uobam.co.th/pdf/FundPolicy/ENFundsCGLTF1020151112165341.pdf

For the US main equity markets on the other hand, low cost tracker funds can be a good option. My largest US fund is indeed a low cost index tracker

Edited November 30, 2015 by fletchsmile

[Gutenberg]

I would stay away from fixed investment plans. Mostly your first year of premiums will be eaten by commissions for your broker/agent. And if you cancel early because you cannot pay the premium anymore, you could deduct penalty fees, etc. and end up with only half of what you "invested".

Same with all those endowment policies, not better than a basic savings account locking away your funds for years with low interests but with huge fees.

[SinCityGr8One]

Gold (AU) and nothing BUT Gold (Au). Physical Gold in you hand. ..925% or 965% or .999% It has value for 5,000+ Years and will have value for another 5,000+ Years. Me and 5 Kg's. of 96.42% Dore Gold in my hands. Yeah, it's Gold and ONLY Gold. IMHO!

Why is one of your "5 kilo bars of gold" bar looking smaller than the rest?

Are you sure it's not 4.5kg of goooold

Did you ever hear of a Digital scale? I have two. When the read out on one scale equals 5 Kg's. and the read out on my second scale is 5 Kg's, well Sir, it is 5 Kg's and NOT 4.5 Kg's of Gold (Au). I detect a little jealousy with your gooooold ending. Perhaps, because I have the Gold (Au) bars in My hands and YOU have a Pint of Adult beverage in YOUR hand.

[AyG]

Gold (AU) and nothing BUT Gold (Au). Physical Gold in you hand. ..925% or 965% or .999% It has value for 5,000+ Years and will have value for another 5,000+ Years. Me and 5 Kg's. of 96.42% Dore Gold in my hands. Yeah, it's Gold and ONLY Gold. IMHO!

Seriously, are they really gold bars? If you do an image search for gold bars they're all smooth and shiny and have an imprint identifying the mint and the purity. The ones in the photo look nothing like that. They look more like blocks of chocolate wrapped in gold coloured foil. Is that what they are and I'm just missing the joke? Or is there some other explanation.

[DirtyDan]

I warned you on page 1 that the gold gollums would come out...

[BudRight]

Gold (AU) and nothing BUT Gold (Au). Physical Gold in you hand. ..925% or 965% or .999% It has value for 5,000+ Years and will have value for another 5,000+ Years. Me and 5 Kg's. of 96.42% Dore Gold in my hands. Yeah, it's Gold and ONLY Gold. IMHO!

Seriously, are they really gold bars? If you do an image search for gold bars they're all smooth and shiny and have an imprint identifying the mint and the purity. The ones in the photo look nothing like that. They look more like blocks of chocolate wrapped in gold coloured foil. Is that what they are and I'm just missing the joke? Or is there some other explanation.

Yeah, seriously. Use Archimedes' principle to check their density against the periodic table. I doubt they'll match. If they do, check their electrical conductivity against the known value. You can use an Ohm meter and vernier calipers.

[hhgz]

You do not need a "savings" plan. You need an "investment" plan.

[fireplay]

You do not need a "savings" plan. You need an "investment" plan.

Ok ok not to mince words sorry...but...can you suggest your ideas...and please do not ask me to pm you or get involved with your "people"...but any other advice is certainly welcome!

[chicowoodduck]

I take my extra 2,000 USD every month and put it into my kitty-kitty for all my coin operated girlfriends and the like....the rest I waste. ?

Live each day like it is your last.....forget the stock market and zero interest banks.....sooner than later it will all come to a big crash.....just an accident waiting to happen.....sort of like the advice one gets from the local TV folks.....lol...??