Two Pensions (Oz / UK)?

[dbrenn]

I've been living in Australia and Thailand for 25 years, but I continue to pay UK voluntary National Insurance contributions, so I'll be eligible for a UK state pension when I retire.

Additionally, I've lived in Australia and I'm a naturalised Australian citizen. By the time I retire, I'll likely have clocked up enough time in Oz to qualify for (most of) the overseas Australia age pension as well. This assumes that I have run down my superannuation and other assets, should the worst come to the worst financially.

I'm wondering - retiring in Thailand, will I be able to legally receive both pensions? There is nothing in the rules that I can find that seems to forbid this.

[maprao]

I'm no expert but I think you have to be present in Australia for the first 2 years of your retirement to continue claiming it.

However not sure.

Edited November 29, 2015 by maprao

[dbrenn]

I'm no expert but I think you have to be present in Australia for the first 2 years of your retirement to continue claiming it.

However not sure.

That's correct. However, my question still stands. Assuming that I was resident in Oz for the two years preceding my first claim, could I then retire in Thailand with both an Australian and a UK pension?

[expatbrit]

I'm no expert but I think you have to be present in Australia for the first 2 years of your retirement to continue claiming it.

However not sure.

That's correct. However, my question still stands. Assuming that I was resident in Oz for the two years preceding my first claim, could I then retire in Thailand with both an Australian and a UK pension?

There is nothing that I know of set out in Thai law which would prevent your receiving as many pension as you qualify for.

I receive three pensions, two from one country and the third from another.

[chiang mai]

There is no restriction on what you intend, not from a Thai perspective. The only thing to be wary of for the future is that technically, income that is transmitted to Thailand in the year that it is earned is taxable in Thailand. The way around that is to not import your pension into Thailand until after 1 January of the year after it was earned. This point is not yet enforced but there will likely come a time when it will be.

[expatbrit]

There is no restriction on what you intend, not from a Thai perspective. The only thing to be wary of for the future is that technically, income that is transmitted to Thailand in the year that it is earned is taxable in Thailand. The way around that is to not import your pension into Thailand until after 1 January of the year after it was earned. This point is not yet enforced but there will likely come a time when it will be.

A "scaremongering post" !

Many countries have "double taxation" agreements/treaties with Thailand.

The issues you raise simply do not/will not occur and I will never have a Tax liability in Thailand.

[chiang mai]

There is no restriction on what you intend, not from a Thai perspective. The only thing to be wary of for the future is that technically, income that is transmitted to Thailand in the year that it is earned is taxable in Thailand. The way around that is to not import your pension into Thailand until after 1 January of the year after it was earned. This point is not yet enforced but there will likely come a time when it will be.

A "scaremongering post" !

Many countries have "double taxation" agreements/treaties with Thailand.

The issues you raise simply do not/will not occur and I will never have a Tax liability in Thailand.

It is not intended to be scaremongering, simply a tax fact that the poster needs to be aware of. As far as never having a tax liability in Thailand is concerned: it's pretty much understood that UK expats who are non-resident for tax purposes may well loose their personal tax allowance at some stage, the government has already tested the waters and many believe it's just a matter of time before it happens and the UK falls in line with other countries. If and when that happens, there's a good chance that the UK government may exclude state pension from taxation but that would not stop another country, Thailand for example, taxing the pension if it is imported during the year it was earned. If that happens, double taxation agreements are unlikely to be of any use.

[simple1]

I'm no expert but I think you have to be present in Australia for the first 2 years of your retirement to continue claiming it.

However not sure.

That's correct. However, my question still stands. Assuming that I was resident in Oz for the two years preceding my first claim, could I then retire in Thailand with both an Australian and a UK pension?

To now claim full Age Pension in Oz for portability you must meet the current requirement of 35 years Working Life Residency from age 16. When you submit your claim it must be accompanied by your Movements Record. If you lived for more than 12 months in the UK you will need to submit the details of pension granted by UK government. Oz does not have an International social security agreement with the UK so income over AUD5800.00 would be subject to tax.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/centrelink/international-social-security-agreements/countries-that-have-agreements-with-australia

Note the changes in Oz for retirement age eligibility.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/age-pension

Before making any decisions would strongly recommend contacting Centrelink International.

Edited November 29, 2015 by simple1

[dbrenn]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I was aware of the 35 years residency for porting an Oz pension abroad. I may not make the full 35 but would still be eligible for a pro rata amount provided I spent more than 10 years in Oz, which is likely.

I'm still a bit confused about the tax, and I was thinking that the personal allowance in Oz at the moment was 18k or thereabouts.

I'm assuming that, while I'd have to notify Centrelink of my UK pension, it would not affect my eligibility for an Oz pension, nor would it be deducted from the amount of pension that Oz would pay?

[chiang mai]

If it helps the OP: I receive the UK state pension but also a US SSc pension, because I lived and worked there for thirteen years, the latter is taxed at 24.5% at source with little chance of recovery, because I don't live in the US any longer and because I don't live in my home country, the UK. The latter is also taxed a further 15% (in my case) because I have pensions from two countries, it's a sign of the times I'm afraid and perhaps an indicator of future direction of many tax authorities.

[dbrenn]

If it helps the OP: I receive the UK state pension but also a US SSc pension, because I lived and worked there for thirteen years, the latter is taxed at 24.5% at source with little chance of recovery, because I don't live in the US any longer and because I don't live in my home country, the UK. The latter is also taxed a further 15% (in my case) because I have pensions from two countries, it's a sign of the times I'm afraid and perhaps an indicator of future direction of many tax authorities.

The rules may indeed change, something we can only guess. I also have no knowledge of the US tax regulations, as they have no relevance to my particular case.

What I'm interested to learn is my eligibility (and tax obligations) living in Thailand and drawing both a UK and Oz pension.