Housing Slump or what ?

[hml367]

Lifetime usufruct works for me.. I cant see me needing it after my death...

Also, invest 40 Mb and you can own a rai too..

Or control a company that does actual work, and it owns it.. Sure thats hazier but lets face it the legality and concepts of 'ownership' of parcels of the planet is all just legal constructs anyway.

Don't foreign spouses have rights ? I believe they are given an amount of time to somehow take care of property ownership.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I always look at the money and cost as something that has no value. Nothing in life has except your family, really.

So, it is true that in the West you don't really own anything because if you don't pay tax, the house/condo will be taken away from you.

That doesn't mean that the similar system of taxation is not coming to Thailand.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that because the lack of any system to tax the property we have a total mess that is real estate situation in Thailand.

A hub of money laundering.... most if it acquired by criminal means.

Also, by not having any rights to legally purchase a house I do feel disrespected. Even with the 51/49 condo ownership.

I actually feel that foreigners who buy a house to sell for a profit are the smart ones.

The ones that buy to live in are "fools".

[heybruce]

could anyone give one example of a fire sale price on a condo in Thailand...that shows a deep discount? I was able to buy three homes at 80% off+ in Arizona and Nevada in 2009-2010. Let's see if anyone can show one at even a 33% discount...after all, we're in a big slump, right?

In some countries when owners can't make payments on the loans they have they will either sell at a loss or the bank will foreclose, sell at at a loss and write off the part of the loan that can't be recouped. When this happens to a significant portion of the economy, the economy takes a big hit but then begins to recover.

In other countries owners and banks refuse to accept reality and take losses, loans are constantly extended, and individuals, banks, and the economy at large go into a zombie state--too indebted to make investments or participate in the economy in other than at minimal level. The economy also doesn't get the stimulus that comes from properties being bought at bargain prices by people who can afford to invest in them. The economy stagnates for many years.

It's clear which category Thailand falls into.

Edited December 2, 2015 by heybruce

[MaeJoMTB]

We farangs have a culture that says we must own our home. In our home countries we can actually own it and be protected by the rule of law. We bring that culture to Thailand, apparently forgetting that the rules are different.

Unless you're married or living with a woman.

She can call the police and have you out, any time she wants, no evidence required.

[dageurreotype]

The lesson here is - do your research before you invest in something and not at the point you intend to sell. This is a pure buyer's market and property will only sell if it meets the buyer's valuation. The fact that both Thai and farang have been hoist by their own greed is pretty much irrelevant to that.

This has been a 'pure buyers' market' ever since the European economy went pear shaped some ten years ago and has never recovered. Before that every Sunday would see some aging farang being scootered around my neck of the woods by his ti rak looking for something to buy her. I agree that a lot of greedy farang have contributed to the devastation of Phuket being enabled by the local bent OBJ's to throw up their Godawful multi storey condos in predominantly residential neighbourhoods, thus further devaluing their immediate neighbour's home's value at a stroke. I fortunately do not fall into this category but feel for the poor buggers who do.

I now also understand that to Thais, a structure is of very little importance/value, it's the land it sits on they prize, their coming from a culture where bamboo shacks were routinely replaced every year or so. They simply don't share Westerner's different value system.

I notice your nik. Toying with a relocation. How goes it in SR? Lovely town. Completely different vibe to here.

Already relocated. :-) I like Chiang Mai, it's not SR for sure but variety is the spice of life, right? :-)

Do you mean you've relocated to CM from SR? Yes, I agree variety being the spice and all that, so how does CM contrast with SR in terms of property? I'm on Phuket BTW and wouldn't move to Chiang Mai as so many others here have done. Nice mountains but Ping River yellow and polluted and I like to be close to a body of water. I haven't visited Siem Reap for many years, but do remember it having a nice lakeside walkway.

[condo bought]

I'm in the process of buying a used condo unit in CM at a fantastic price.

Fantastic price compared to what other same units are being advertized for. Buying it bare, which I like, for less than other much smaller units (2/3rds of the size) in the same building that have been fully renovated are going for.

It will be a holiday base when in the North, and seen as neither an investment or place to live full-time.

Edited December 2, 2015 by condo bought

[HenryB]

I'm in the process of buying a used condo unit in CM at a fantastic price.

Fantastic price compared to what other same units are being advertized for. Buying it bare, which I like, for less than other much smaller units (2/3rds of the size) in the same building that have been fully renovated are going for.

It will be a holiday base when in the North, and seen as neither an investment or place to live full-time.

That is what you think nobody told you of noise from rebuilding in these old condo units Between 8 and 5 unable to say home

Rent a house or condo move when you want to

[condo bought]

I'm in the process of buying a used condo unit in CM at a fantastic price.

Fantastic price compared to what other same units are being advertized for. Buying it bare, which I like, for less than other much smaller units (2/3rds of the size) in the same building that have been fully renovated are going for.

It will be a holiday base when in the North, and seen as neither an investment or place to live full-time.

That is what you think nobody told you of noise from rebuilding in these old condo units Between 8 and 5 unable to say home

Rent a house or condo move when you want to

I am out riding my motorbike around the North between the morning and the evening.

I rent a large private house with gardens in BKK to live in.

Thanks for your concern.

Edited December 2, 2015 by condo bought

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I'm in the process of buying a used condo unit in CM at a fantastic price.

Fantastic price compared to what other same units are being advertized for. Buying it bare, which I like, for less than other much smaller units (2/3rds of the size) in the same building that have been fully renovated are going for.

It will be a holiday base when in the North, and seen as neither an investment or place to live full-time.

Would you mind sharing this fantastic price and how bit it is?

[condo bought]

But just thinking about the advantages of it further.

My own place to decorate as I want, my own furniture, my own bedroom and bed, my own TV and sound system with my own DVD's, my own bookcases with my own books, my own computer with my collection of movies, documentaries and music, my own bathroom and throne, my own kitchen to set up as I want, my own place to park my bike. Rent a place or go for hotels, no thanks.

In short, my own place to use as a base whenever I want to head to the North and spent a few days zooming around the hills.

That I got it at such a great price is really just the icing on the kanom.

But, of course, each to their own.

[JaseTheBass]

My own place to decorate as I want, my own furniture, my own bedroom and bed, my own TV and sound system with my own DVD's, my own bookcases with my own books, my own computer with my collection of movies, documentaries and music, my own bathroom and throne, my own kitchen to set up as I want, my own place to park my bike.

I rent my house but still manage to do everything on your list except install my own throne - the 5 we have are fine as they are.

[LivinLOS]

But just thinking about the advantages of it further.

My own place to decorate as I want, my own furniture, my own bedroom and bed, my own TV and sound system with my own DVD's, my own bookcases with my own books, my own computer with my collection of movies, documentaries and music, my own bathroom and throne, my own kitchen to set up as I want, my own place to park my bike. Rent a place or go for hotels, no thanks.

In short, my own place to use as a base whenever I want to head to the North and spent a few days zooming around the hills.

I do all of that and have done for the last 3 or 4 homes..

Actually not the bed.. Each home has had bedroom fittings.. But all the lounges kitchens the office / study etc are mine..

[condo bought]

Sure.

I rent my house too. Lovely with big private gardens.

I'm buying my own condo in the North to keep as a base for my stays there. Nice to have. Sorry that upsets people.

[amykat]

But just thinking about the advantages of it further.

My own place to decorate as I want, my own furniture, my own bedroom and bed, my own TV and sound system with my own DVD's, my own bookcases with my own books, my own computer with my collection of movies, documentaries and music, my own bathroom and throne, my own kitchen to set up as I want, my own place to park my bike. Rent a place or go for hotels, no thanks.

In short, my own place to use as a base whenever I want to head to the North and spent a few days zooming around the hills.

That I got it at such a great price is really just the icing on the kanom.

But, of course, each to their own.

You sound like you are 19 and just getting out of your parent's house .

[WaiLai]

But just thinking about the advantages of it further.

My own place to decorate as I want, my own furniture, my own bedroom and bed, my own TV and sound system with my own DVD's, my own bookcases with my own books, my own computer with my collection of movies, documentaries and music, my own bathroom and throne, my own kitchen to set up as I want, my own place to park my bike. Rent a place or go for hotels, no thanks.

In short, my own place to use as a base whenever I want to head to the North and spent a few days zooming around the hills.

That I got it at such a great price is really just the icing on the kanom.

But, of course, each to their own.

You sound like you are 19 and just getting out of your parent's house .

He/she might be but what if he/she is 65+ ...... look out!

[Happy Grumpy]

But just thinking about the advantages of it further.

My own place to decorate as I want, my own furniture, my own bedroom and bed, my own TV and sound system with my own DVD's, my own bookcases with my own books, my own computer with my collection of movies, documentaries and music, my own bathroom and throne, my own kitchen to set up as I want, my own place to park my bike. Rent a place or go for hotels, no thanks.

In short, my own place to use as a base whenever I want to head to the North and spent a few days zooming around the hills.

That I got it at such a great price is really just the icing on the kanom.

But, of course, each to their own.

Sure, when buying your own condo, it's extremely satisfying to sit on the balcony upon an eve with a glass of red knowing that it is yours.

With property in Thailand so cheap, having your own base there is great for those who can afford it and never have to think of the price or consider it an investment.

Well done and good luck to you. Enjoy it.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

But just thinking about the advantages of it further.

My own place to decorate as I want, my own furniture, my own bedroom and bed, my own TV and sound system with my own DVD's, my own bookcases with my own books, my own computer with my collection of movies, documentaries and music, my own bathroom and throne, my own kitchen to set up as I want, my own place to park my bike. Rent a place or go for hotels, no thanks.

In short, my own place to use as a base whenever I want to head to the North and spent a few days zooming around the hills.

That I got it at such a great price is really just the icing on the kanom.

But, of course, each to their own.

Sure, when buying your own condo, it's extremely satisfying to sit on the balcony upon an eve with a glass of red knowing that it is yours.

With property in Thailand so cheap, having your own base there is great for those who can afford it and never have to think of the price or consider it an investment.

Well done and good luck to you. Enjoy it.

Property in Thailand is not cheap.

99% of condos and houses would not pass a basic inspection in the west which means they are overpriced by whatever amount they are charging for them.

I would be extremely scared to buy any older house or a condo in Thailand for the mold issue alone.

[NeverSure]

We farangs have a culture that says we must own our home. In our home countries we can actually own it and be protected by the rule of law. We bring that culture to Thailand, apparently forgetting that the rules are different.

Unless you're married or living with a woman.

She can call the police and have you out, any time she wants, no evidence required.

You're talking about Thailand, right? Where I live anything I owned prior to a marriage remains mine even without a prenup.

To those who say the government could take my home for taxes, no they can't. Where I live senior citizens can stop paying taxes and let their estate deal with all of the back taxes. The heirs might lose out but not the senior owner. Does someone think they would really come to the home of a senior and kick her out for back taxes? I don't know the laws in other states, but not where I live.

[chiang mai]

We farangs have a culture that says we must own our home. In our home countries we can actually own it and be protected by the rule of law. We bring that culture to Thailand, apparently forgetting that the rules are different.

Unless you're married or living with a woman.

She can call the police and have you out, any time she wants, no evidence required.

You're talking about Thailand, right? Where I live anything I owned prior to a marriage remains mine even without a prenup.

To those who say the government could take my home for taxes, no they can't. Where I live senior citizens can stop paying taxes and let their estate deal with all of the back taxes. The heirs might lose out but not the senior owner. Does someone think they would really come to the home of a senior and kick her out for back taxes? I don't know the laws in other states, but not where I live.

So bridges don't attract taxes, is that what it is!

FWIW the part about Thai divorce laws: both parties share 50/50, assets acquired during the marriage only.

[bangmai]

they can't force you to sell your primary residence, but can have a lien on it, that would have to be paid to transfer ownership, with interest. Varies from State to State, a little. The problem with the tax breaks for seniors is there are limits to the assets you can have. In one case, 350,000 USD....But, people do get taxed out of their homes in the US....New Jersey comes to mind....there are people with annual tax bills that are more than what they paid for the house and land. Oh, and HOA fees can be crazy in the US.

Edited December 2, 2015 by bangmai

[Happy Grumpy]

But just thinking about the advantages of it further.

My own place to decorate as I want, my own furniture, my own bedroom and bed, my own TV and sound system with my own DVD's, my own bookcases with my own books, my own computer with my collection of movies, documentaries and music, my own bathroom and throne, my own kitchen to set up as I want, my own place to park my bike. Rent a place or go for hotels, no thanks.

In short, my own place to use as a base whenever I want to head to the North and spent a few days zooming around the hills.

That I got it at such a great price is really just the icing on the kanom.

But, of course, each to their own.

Sure, when buying your own condo, it's extremely satisfying to sit on the balcony upon an eve with a glass of red knowing that it is yours.

With property in Thailand so cheap, having your own base there is great for those who can afford it and never have to think of the price or consider it an investment.

Well done and good luck to you. Enjoy it.

Property in Thailand is not cheap.

99% of condos and houses would not pass a basic inspection in the west which means they are overpriced by whatever amount they are charging for them.

I would be extremely scared to buy any older house or a condo in Thailand for the mold issue alone.

Okay.

[MaeJoMTB]

We farangs have a culture that says we must own our home. In our home countries we can actually own it and be protected by the rule of law. We bring that culture to Thailand, apparently forgetting that the rules are different.

Unless you're married or living with a woman.

She can call the police and have you out, any time she wants, no evidence required.

You're talking about Thailand, right? Where I live anything I owned prior to a marriage remains mine even without a prenup.

To those who say the government could take my home for taxes, no they can't. Where I live senior citizens can stop paying taxes and let their estate deal with all of the back taxes. The heirs might lose out but not the senior owner. Does someone think they would really come to the home of a senior and kick her out for back taxes? I don't know the laws in other states, but not where I live.

In America, Australia and the UK, the woman can get everything.

Are you French or from the Middle East?

I thought you were from the USA,

Where the DEA, Homeland Security and a whole host of other government departments can freeze your bank accounts, then walk into your home and shoot you then confiscate everything.

Edited December 2, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[SiSePuede419]

You rent a house or buy a home, there lies the difference.

anon.

In Thailand, foreigners can only RENT the land their "home" is on. Kinda destroys your cliche, doesn't it?

http://property.thaivisa.com/can-foreigners-property-thailand/

Far from destroying the cliché, it reinforces it.

Transience requires housing, rent.

Permanence requires homeliness, buy.

A titled deed is not in itself a state of homeliness.

Happily I am past transience knocking on my door.

No, it doesn't. Something is not true, just because you say so.

You claimed that renters have no "home", yet you ignore the fact you can't own the land your house sits on in Thailand. You rent.

555

[bangmai]

Oh, I forgot. In Arizona, someone can buy the tax lien against your property, collect 16% interest, then sue you in Superior Court for "Quiet Title" if you don't pay up, including legal fees. You would then be evicted by the Sheriff, if you didn't leave. I acquired a 3.5 acre parcel using this method.

Google "tax sale."

[LivinLOS]

I have owned places that were mere houses..

I have rented places that were homes..

Using a subjective yardstick is hardly relevant..

[SiSePuede419]

they can't force you to sell your primary residence, but can have a lien on it, that would have to be paid to transfer ownership, with interest. Varies from State to State, a little. The problem with the tax breaks for seniors is there are limits to the assets you can have. In one case, 350,000 USD....But, people do get taxed out of their homes in the US....New Jersey comes to mind....there are people with annual tax bills that are more than what they paid for the house and land. Oh, and HOA fees can be crazy in the US.

Nobody gets "taxed out" of their home in America. The value of the property has increased VASTLY to cause the taxes to be greater than the original purchase price.

If they don't have the income to live in such an EXPENSIVE neighborhood, then they can sell their home AT GREAT PROFIT and move somewhere less expensive.

You talk about this anecdote like it was a bad thing, 5555

[Happy Grumpy]

Half the guys here renting houses long-term would buy them in a second if they were easily able to and had the cash.

But they can't.

So no No No No! They don't want to, renting them is best no matter what!

Funny.

[bangmai]

same with all the geniuses that go pay the US Consulate 1900 thb for a liar's letter. They say it's because they don't trust the Thai Banks, but in reality, they couldn't come up with 800K if their lives depended on it. Been hearing the "no lights on" thing for about 10 years. We have three units available out of 120...almost pitch dark from the outside at 3am....I think it means many have second homes, don't rent to trashpackers, and don't waste electricity.

Even if prices fell by 50%, and you could buy for 6-9 times annual rent; they still wouldn't buy. Saw it in America, after prices dropped 80% (and rents only dropped 15%)...they still didn't buy, and in fact more of the renter chorus finally got off the fence and bought at the absolute peak, when "everybody was doing it." It was investors, including many Canadians, Chinese, and Australians, who came in and bought at the bottom; not lifelong renters.

Edited December 2, 2015 by bangmai

[namatjira]

Yes that's the rental crowd.....living in a 3000 baht a month room eating 50 baht noodles and drinking archa beer...

[Happy Grumpy]

same with all the geniuses that go pay the US Consulate 1900 thb for a liar's letter. They say it's because they don't trust the Thai Banks, but in reality, they couldn't come up with 800K if their lives depended on it.

Observing farangs in Thailand is almost as fun as observing Thais.