Aussie claims he received electric shock from onsen at The Address Asoke condo

[gemguy]

It's a sentō, not an onsen. An onsen uses water from geothermal hot springs while a sentō uses heated tap water and as there are no thermal hot springs on Asoke road or in BKK then it can't be a onsen!

Back to the story.

The company blame the Aussies as:

they where guests to a tenant and not tenants?!

the size of the skimmer is "only" 20x25 cm?!

they found a beer bottle?!

So my questions to The Address Asoke:

If I would buy a condo in your building I can't have guests visiting me? Because a guest of a tenant should be able to use the facilities to right?!

If they where not allowed to use the sentō then how could they enter the building and get to the 44^th floor? If I would own a condo in that building then I would seriously questioning the operations manager how people that as he said has no right to be there got in to the building, to the 44^th floor and in the pool!

Have you ever heard of bruising? The skimmer is 20x25 cm, you can see the outlines of it in the picture of the back of the man, the bruising is just bigger than the inlet.

Can the security team prove that the beer bottle belonged to the Aussie? There are many tenants in that building and anyone could have left the beer bottle behind!

How the hell could it take over 20 minutes for the condo employees to get to the 44^th floor? Did they have to use the stairs?! If you have a pool area then it's your responsibility to have personnel/lifeguards that can assist people in case of an accident/emergency!

You are wasting your time trying to understand Thai Logic in matters such as this story.

Occasionally they do the right thing and own up to the responsibility ( but usually forced to do so ) and often enough get around to resolving the issue or repairing the problem at hand.

But their immediate reaction, as to who is to be blamed and or accountable for an accident or situation that caused harm to others ...well.... that is a matter of their mentality and logic superseding anyone else's mentality and logic while their first reaction is to always blame someone else or something else for what they are ultimately responsible for and or have to be accountable for.

They come up with the fastest excuses imaginable.

It seems that aspect of their thinking is a naturally inherent attribute.

Mind you though, in this case the suction duct seen in the photos is more than likely a standard installation and not considered dangerous ( until now ) while the person who was hurt was the first ....so now the building management knows there is a present danger that needs to be addressed....and hopefully addresses the issue correctly resulting in no chance of anyone else in the future suffering the same fate.

Cheers

Edited December 5, 2015 by gemguy

[Kerryd]

Here's a screen cap from the video the guy made and the pic of his back:

Notice the small metal bars on each side of the duct. Notice how it is a single duct. Notice how small the duct is.

Physically impossible for him to have gotten his whole back in that tiny area. Physically impossible to have been "sealed" to that duct yet not have indentations in his back from those protective bars. Physically impossible to have that single, small duct seal his back across both shoulder blades with such force that he was unable to break free, yet only leave partial indentation marks on both shoulders (indicating, as I mentioned before, that he was not "sealed" to the duct).

Then what caused the blood vessel rupture? He stood there and using his legs, "pushed himself" against the skimmer? Not sure I follow your analysis.

Gil

My "analysis" is that it would have been nearly impossible for him to receive those injuries from that duct. It simply isn't big enough to cover his entire back and create the markings evident on outside of both shoulder blades.

Look at those protective metal bars on the side of the duct, at the bottom they appear to stick out maybe 3-4 inches (7.5-10cms) - how could he get "sealed" to that duct without contacting those bars ?

Look closer at the edge of the duct (or skimmer or whatever) - note how wide the edges are and that there appears to be round, silver screw heads or rivets protruding. Now look at the indentations on his back. Notice they appear to be much narrower that the edges of the duct, and show no circular indentations from those screw heads.

Also note below the main area of damage on his back that there are a couple of long, straight red marks across his back. The first one ends at what appears to be an abrasion on his right side. No way those are from that duct or from "ruptured blood vessels".

Looking carefully below the second line and it appears the skin changes colour, becoming slightly darker. That is the opposite of what you'd expect if he'd had ruptured blood vessels in his upper back. The area below that second line should be a lighter colour.

Oh here's a laugh - apparently the building caught him on CCTV and he had that "injury" before he went into the pool !!

Edited December 5, 2015 by Kerryd

[norfolkandchance]

I knew the truth would come out

[Don Mega]

bwahahahahahahahahaha. Holy crap thats funny as <deleted> if he really did have those marks before going into the pool !!!

[mydee]

Thank you for an informed and readable summary of the situation. I also agree with your comment on the haters who contribute nothing

Wow, all these haters on Thai Visa. Amazing. The guy has an obvious injury, and all you haters just think it was an insurance scam. Have built many pools, it is clear that something is wrong here. This is not an electric shock, this is a suction injury. Suction injuries can be up to twice the size of the original suction area, due to surrounding blood vessel rupture (and blood is sucked and rushed to the area in the body). Similar to a large bruise. There are some clear engineering faults here:

1. A skimmer that size, in such a small enclosed area is just asking for an accident. Skimmers draw water up to 10 or 12 meters away (gradually, floating debris make it to the skimmer in about 4 min from 10 meters out); however, in such a small body of water, the rate of flow is much faster. If you look closely at one of the pictures, you can actually see a small "wave" of water entering the skimmer. This is far too fast for people obviously sitting with their back to it.

2. Likely, the "onsen" (sentoo) or jacuuzi, has floor jets that bubble. To power the floor jets, I suspect that they are powered by water coming from the skimmer; if true, this is wrong. Jets should be powered by a floor drain in a separate part of the pool. Also, when we power jacuuzi jets, we typically put the water source & drain on a high powered pool pump (at least 5.5hp or higher for 5 jets) to get proper and sufficient flow. To plumb a skimmer on a 5.5hp pump is pure insanity, and people will get injured, lose fingers, etc. The "fan" mentioned is likely water swirling strongly in the skimmer, further indication that the skimmer has far too much power.

3. Also, look closely at the spa area; the half moon spa wall (where he is standing high and dry) is ABOVE the water line. That means, that this is two completely separate bodies of water (they MUST be co-mingled). They have obviously done this to keep warm water in the "onsen" and not let the warm water mix into the main pool water. The onsen is therefore a closed loop system - water is drawn into the skimmer, heated, and returned to the spa sitting area via floor jets. Amazing design flaw, seriously dangerous, and certainly an opportunity to improve safety. When we install a spa or similar sitting area, we always include an emergency red "shut down" button nearby clearly marked. Hitting this button immediately trips all pumps off, releasing any suction.

If I am not wrong, this guy has already left back to Australia without asking for compensation, shooting down the insurance scam theory. Pool safety in Thailand is like finding a virgin in nana, so my opinion is to side with what I can see in the pictures. This was a painful, and scary incident; luckily, it was not a child.

Gil - The Pool Doctors

[ronaldo0]

Where did the cctv pics come from?

[MockingJay]

Why do I get the feeling that there's something "not quite right" about this story?

[MockingJay]

What the hell is an"onsen"....

In German language there is the word "Unsinn", problably what this story truly is: "Nonsense"...

[mankondang]

When I lived in Australia, a very young girl sat on the "skimmer box" which is basically a first stage filter which catches leaves etc. However it is also the outlet from the pool which sucks the water, via the powerfull pump, into the mai filter and back into the pool. The powerful suction at the skimmer box she sat on, sucked out her bowels etc and she died a most painful death. Since then, I must add authorities have enforced massive regulations on back yard swimming pools. Fencing, automatically closing gates, alarms etc, but the one continuous regulation, which they go to great length, evenTV advertising/communication, is to always have adults constantly monitor children in their domestic pools etc. As in this case and the OP, it's a pity that something bad happens, be it in a domestic, industrial or on the road, before we realise the dangers and attempt to rectify them. I guess we're all human.

Edited December 5, 2015 by mankondang

[gemguy]

OK...so the whole affair seems to be a scam of some sort.

Meantime...that is one weird looking "something" on the mans back and makes a person wonder just how the hell did that guy get that scar or what ever you want to call it as that can not be a natural birth mark or natural growth of some kind or something other than a scar..????.... from an accident of some sort.

Just saying

Cheers

[Ks45672]

Here's a screen cap from the video the guy made and the pic of his back:

Notice the small metal bars on each side of the duct. Notice how it is a single duct. Notice how small the duct is.

Physically impossible for him to have gotten his whole back in that tiny area. Physically impossible to have been "sealed" to that duct yet not have indentations in his back from those protective bars. Physically impossible to have that single, small duct seal his back across both shoulder blades with such force that he was unable to break free, yet only leave partial indentation marks on both shoulders (indicating, as I mentioned before, that he was not "sealed" to the duct).

Then what caused the blood vessel rupture? He stood there and using his legs, "pushed himself" against the skimmer? Not sure I follow your analysis.

Gil

My "analysis" is that it would have been nearly impossible for him to receive those injuries from that duct. It simply isn't big enough to cover his entire back and create the markings evident on outside of both shoulder blades.

Look at those protective metal bars on the side of the duct, at the bottom they appear to stick out maybe 3-4 inches (7.5-10cms) - how could he get "sealed" to that duct without contacting those bars ?

Look closer at the edge of the duct (or skimmer or whatever) - note how wide the edges are and that there appears to be round, silver screw heads or rivets protruding. Now look at the indentations on his back. Notice they appear to be much narrower that the edges of the duct, and show no circular indentations from those screw heads.

Also note below the main area of damage on his back that there are a couple of long, straight red marks across his back. The first one ends at what appears to be an abrasion on his right side. No way those are from that duct or from "ruptured blood vessels".

Looking carefully below the second line and it appears the skin changes colour, becoming slightly darker. That is the opposite of what you'd expect if he'd had ruptured blood vessels in his upper back. The area below that second line should be a lighter colour.

Oh here's a laugh - apparently the building caught him on CCTV and he had that "injury" before he went into the pool !!

Charge him with insurance fraud if he had tried to get compensation for this crap ....

Looks like purple paint on the cctv lol

What a fuking knucklehead...

[dageurreotype]

Wow, all these haters on Thai Visa. Amazing. The guy has an obvious injury, and all you haters just think it was an insurance scam. Have built many pools, it is clear that something is wrong here. This is not an electric shock, this is a suction injury. Suction injuries can be up to twice the size of the original suction area, due to surrounding blood vessel rupture (and blood is sucked and rushed to the area in the body). Similar to a large bruise. There are some clear engineering faults here:

1. A skimmer that size, in such a small enclosed area is just asking for an accident. Skimmers draw water up to 10 or 12 meters away (gradually, floating debris make it to the skimmer in about 4 min from 10 meters out); however, in such a small body of water, the rate of flow is much faster. If you look closely at one of the pictures, you can actually see a small "wave" of water entering the skimmer. This is far too fast for people obviously sitting with their back to it.

2. Likely, the "onsen" (sentoo) or jacuuzi, has floor jets that bubble. To power the floor jets, I suspect that they are powered by water coming from the skimmer; if true, this is wrong. Jets should be powered by a floor drain in a separate part of the pool. Also, when we power jacuuzi jets, we typically put the water source & drain on a high powered pool pump (at least 5.5hp or higher for 5 jets) to get proper and sufficient flow. To plumb a skimmer on a 5.5hp pump is pure insanity, and people will get injured, lose fingers, etc. The "fan" mentioned is likely water swirling strongly in the skimmer, further indication that the skimmer has far too much power.

3. Also, look closely at the spa area; the half moon spa wall (where he is standing high and dry) is ABOVE the water line. That means, that this is two completely separate bodies of water (they MUST be co-mingled). They have obviously done this to keep warm water in the "onsen" and not let the warm water mix into the main pool water. The onsen is therefore a closed loop system - water is drawn into the skimmer, heated, and returned to the spa sitting area via floor jets. Amazing design flaw, seriously dangerous, and certainly an opportunity to improve safety. When we install a spa or similar sitting area, we always include an emergency red "shut down" button nearby clearly marked. Hitting this button immediately trips all pumps off, releasing any suction.

If I am not wrong, this guy has already left back to Australia without asking for compensation, shooting down the insurance scam theory. Pool safety in Thailand is like finding a virgin in nana, so my opinion is to side with what I can see in the pictures. This was a painful, and scary incident; luckily, it was not a child.

Gil - The Pool Doctors

Yes, I'd noticed any sympathy did a 180 degree just after his name was published ..

[pedro01]

if there was that much electricity in the water to cause burns like that why was his daughter not zapped as well ?

Not burns, it's just a giant bruise from the suction. Luckily his daughter did not get near the skimmer as it's apparently 20x25 cm so a child could theoretically actually get sucked right in to it!

You from Oompa Lumpa land?

Kids must be VERY small where you come from.

[Kerryd]

Where did the cctv pics come from?

A user on a Facebook media page posted them in response to that media page posting the story of this guy and his alleged injuries. The poster appears to be involved in real estate in Bangkok (a sales consultant at someplace called Bangkok Real Property). A lot of condos for sale/rent on their page so perhaps they have "connections" with the building managers.

I also forwarded the info to Khaosod in case they want to follow up on it.

[mikiea]

my skeptic meter is flashing a warning light on this one.

ehhh , i do not know about that, if you get sucked on a unit it will pull all fleshy fat to to skin surface breaking blood vessels (giant hicky) . he may of fell asleep for a few minutes, it does note take long......i knew a girl in highschool. ........... Edited December 5, 2015 by mikiea

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I would also like to know the full story and would then retract my comment about the condo.

If this is really some kind of insurance scam I think it would have been too obvious to be a scam and the guy must be incredibly stupid to pull something like this. Which makes me even more stupid for believing this story,

[ameadi]

The address is a "hiso" condominium project.

Reason number 332 not to buy any real estate in Thailand.

[ameadi]

Reason number 332 don't post stupid comments

[geriatrickid]

insurance scam

Do you know anything about Thailand? Foreigners are rarely paid anything significant when injured, maimed or killed. At best he can claim medical expenses. Would you rip your back like that and risk a necrotizing infection for 1000 baht and a flower arrangement? That's a very painful injury.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Reason number 332 don't post stupid comments

Why?

Are you a sucker who bought one?

[DrTuner]

apparently the building caught him on CCTV and he had that "injury" before he went into the pool !!

And the "before" is deduced from ... a timestamp on the cctv footage, which is synced to correct time by Thai maintanence, possibly the same servicing the pool? That looks like the aftermath to me.

[jacksam]

His injury looks more like the rupturing oIf blood vessels caused by suction; not burns.

Your qualifications? Dr Dolittle

[ronaldo0]

apparently the building caught him on CCTV and he had that "injury" before he went into the pool !!

And the "before" is deduced from ... a timestamp on the cctv footage, which is synced to correct time by Thai maintanence, possibly the same servicing the pool? That looks like the aftermath to me.

Yip that's why I wanted to know where the pics came from.

They could be the pics of him returning to his room after it happened !!

[elgordo38]

The address is a "hiso" condominium project.

Reason number 332 not to buy any real estate in Thailand.

Spot on. If your building a new home here be prepared to camp out 24/7 to keep an eye on things. I have watched shoddy construction first hand with my previous g/f. Her mother undertook a 600 square meter building in a medium size village to try and outdo her 3 sisters who all had stores. I kept telling them stop at 200 square metres but they would not listen. Our apartment was the first build of the 3 sections and it started to fall apart before he was finished on the 3rd section. He the contractor got his last tranche of the 7 million baht bank loan and headed for the hills. I was truly amazed that banks would hand out this large a mortgage without checking the quality of the build amazing.

[elgordo38]

if there was that much electricity in the water to cause burns like that why was his daughter not zapped as well ?

If he was zapped by electricity in water he would be dead as would his daughter. I think the poster that stated ruptured blood cells is correct. Good luck on your lawsuit its a hi-so building.

[ajarnmarc]

It's a sentō, not an onsen. An onsen uses water from geothermal hot springs while a sentō uses heated tap water and as there are no thermal hot springs on Asoke road or in BKK then it can't be a onsen!

Back to the story.

The company blame the Aussies as:

they where guests to a tenant and not tenants?!

the size of the skimmer is "only" 20x25 cm?!

they found a beer bottle?!

So my questions to The Address Asoke:

If I would buy a condo in your building I can't have guests visiting me? Because a guest of a tenant should be able to use the facilities to right?!

If they where not allowed to use the sentō then how could they enter the building and get to the 44^th floor? If I would own a condo in that building then I would seriously questioning the operations manager how people that as he said has no right to be there got in to the building, to the 44^th floor and in the pool!

Have you ever heard of bruising? The skimmer is 20x25 cm, you can see the outlines of it in the picture of the back of the man, the bruising is just bigger than the inlet.

Can the security team prove that the beer bottle belonged to the Aussie? There are many tenants in that building and anyone could have left the beer bottle behind!

How the hell could it take over 20 minutes for the condo employees to get to the 44^th floor? Did they have to use the stairs?! If you have a pool area then it's your responsibility to have personnel/lifeguards that can assist people in case of an accident/emergency!

The Thai culture is geared to blame anyone else rather than try to take responsibility.

It happens all the time when trying to claim a warranty repair for example.

In this case it is ridiculous to claim that the party injured are not tenants,

so they have no protection.

Especially when you consider that owners are certainly allowed and within their rights to have visitors,

and those visitors are certainly going to want to use the facilities available to the owners,

as the visitors could very likely be a future owner themselves.

If they enjoy & like what they see while they are visiting the owners/ tenants.

I could just see it now, I live @ a Condo, and I invite people over to visit with me.

We decide to take a dip in the pool, but I have to tell the party visiting me,

that they can't use the pool, same as I, because if they are injured while doing so,

they will be at fault for not owning actually living there.

That should go over well,

and certainly everyone would be able to understand the Thai logic with that....NOT!

As for a lifeguard on duty, that isn't likely to happen any time soon.

Every business I've seen in my time, has at least three times as many people as needed for the location,

but that is due to one in three employees sleeping while at work,

while the others take watch and wait for their turn to come around.

It would appear that the work force here,

considers coming to work as part of actual work.

Therefore they need to sleep while @ work,

since they used up so much energy getting to where they work.

They wonder why their wage is low, when in fact companies have to hire 3x the employees they actually need,

just to cover all the illnesses / excuses that pop up on any given day for the staff not to show up for work,

and when they do, well they are already tired from the journey, so rotation needs to begin to get back their energy.

With this being the case / situation, a life guard would not be just one needed but actually two or three needed,

just to man the hrs of operation.

The residence would of course try to pass on the cost to the tenants,

while still hiding behind the blame wall,

that only tenants are protected by the life guards on post...

Nevermind the condo owners charge extra for the water/electric used by the tenants,

over the government price, or that fact that there's a maintenance fee assessed each month.

Those are all basic fee's, which don't cover things like insurance for all people on the location,

in the event of an accident such as this.

The truth be known, there probably is insurance to cover such a thing,

but the owners won't want to use it, for fear that their premiums will go up upon renewal.

Only when all other avenues of blame are exhausted will the owners of this condo consider what truly happened,

and how it can possibly be avoided in the future.

Of course the beer bottle blame angle will ride out for some time to come,

as it's known all foreigners drink beer,

so the Thai's consider...

The best part of this was the safe outcome for the daughter of the visitors.

Luckily she wasn't harmed in this event.

[SOTIRIOS]

...sickening...and that goes for the ridiculous comments here too....

....what do you call people that get their jollies blaming the victim....

[NCC1701A]

i guess he will be sleeping on his stomach for a while.

going to be a long flight home.

[NCC1701A]

"OK Nook, now that you are in the water, we are going to turn the power back on.

That way we can make sure Farang man wrong about shock. Ready?"

[jacksam]

Yahir Ben Weitzel....... An Australian..... Haha...... Tie me Kangaroo down sport.... Where's his Boomerang ?

You have an issue with Australians?

Ballroom Dancer for sure...