Is Thailand loosing its charm?

[SoiBiker]

I get tired when even thinking of Bangkok...in and out as fast as I can...

perhaps it is you that has changed.

You mean he's lost his charm?

[DrTuner]

I was contemplating this while having my g&t on the patio while watching the sun set and came to the following conclusion: No, Thailand hasn't lost it's charm, but I've lost the last bits of the innocence that drew me here. That said, there's no return. The rest of the world seems even worse.

[Crazy chef 1]

I get tired when even thinking of Bangkok...in and out as fast as I can...

perhaps it is you that has changed.

Yo are right..I certainly have changed...

[bannork]

Bangkok has its charm, local Bangkokians have their communities in the sois away from the main roads, everyone knows each other, the middle class have their nice detached homes in 'newly built villages' but they still relate to vendors and the secretaries in their companies from what I've seen

The sad factor for the Bangkokian in my view and experience is he is doomed to a lifestyle of pressure and stress- insane traffic, too much concrete and lack of space- scenarios which destroy any sense of contentment.

He never experiences the joy of riding to the fields on a bicycle, motorbike or in a pick-up leisuredly,with no one tailgating him, birds, dogs and children happily enjoying the morning air too.

The Bankokian is comfortable in his own secluded environment, like city people everywhere, but he's not free,-caged like a rat, he has his runs- to the office/work, to the gym/park and to the department store/restaurant..

And like a rat he runs through city corridors to each haven, ignoring what's around him on the way,for that is the life in cities worldwide, not the same as upcountry where the motorbike rider drives slowly, observing his neighbours' fields and ongoing developments.

Thailand is a tropical country so we are blessed with warm weather all year round- perfect for the outdoor life with trees, fields and hills, not traffic jams, reflecting heat concrete blocks and pollution.

[BlindMagician]

I get tired when even thinking of Bangkok...in and out as fast as I can...

perhaps it is you that has changed.

You mean he's lost his charm?

He means he has lost his stamina..you'll have to think about that one

[KonaRain]

"Take paradise and put up a parking lot "

But was it really paradise or just a black market country for sex, copies, dirty street stands, scams, trafficking, drugs etc etc .....

I think we all were in amazement at how everything was possible and around every bend we were shocked or surprised and now it is getting cleaned up and brought under control, sort of.....

[Adam Duritz]

They paved paradise and put up a parking lot

With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swingin' hot spot

Don't it always seem to go

That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone

They paved paradise and put up a parking lot

[Vanessa Carlton]

Ooooh, bop bop bop

Ooooh, bop bop bop

[Adam]

They took all the trees, and put em in a tree museum

And they charged the people a dollar and a half to see them

No, no, no

Don't it always seem to go

That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone

They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot

[Vanessa]

Ooooh, bop bop bop

Ooooh, bop bop bop

[Adam]

Hey farmer, farmer, put away your DDT

I don't care about spots on my apples,

Leave me the birds and the bees

Please

Don't it always seem to go

That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone

They paved paradise and put up a parking lot

Hey now, they paved paradise to put up a parking lot

Why not?

Joni was my neighbor..

Joni Mitchell..

[Roadman]

Does Thailand really have that much charm? For the newbie definitely. Its when you move between Thailand and a civilised culture on a regular basis you see that the charm is very superficial and for Thailand as a whole non existent. There is charm in some of the people and if you are lucky enough to find that then you are indeed fortunate.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Roadman

[Linzz]

Headline: -is-Thailand-loosing-its-charm?

Unless you meant unraveled, then maybe not.

But the girls are always foot loose and fancy free

And is TVF losing the plot or is it me?

Regards,

Spelling Police

[KonaRain]

Can't we just have a signal for the spell enforcement..

(%)

Re: Charm is in some of the folk

and many beautiful vistas and places..ambiance.

Spell check suggests 'ambiances' no thanks.

Aloha from the land of Any Blue Waters..

And lot of other crappola..such as oil fired power plants.

[JLCrab]

< multi snips>

Joni was my neighbor..

Joni Mitchell..

Great -- did she invite you over for breakfast?

Woke up, it was a Chelsea morning, and the first thing that I knew

There was milk and toast and honey and a bowl of oranges, too

[1BADDAT]

The tourists still want to shop in the expensive shopping malls, because it's still cheaper than their own country.

I can buy anything name brand in USA for roughly half of what it costs in Thailand. Brand name goods like clothes and shoes are cheaper in the US than the countries where they are actually made (Vietnam, China, etc...)

[alex88]

Thailand is losing its charm, just like my home country of Australia long ago lost its charm and my old favourite Cambodia is also losing its charm. It's just the way things are going globally.

[charmonman]

Rather than being so dismissive of the opinion and sentiments of (some) older people, you might want to consider that they have a perspective on the subject that it is impossible for you to have. I don't know how long you have been here, but these older people have probably been around long enough to see a Thailand and Bangkok that you did not have the opportunity to see. Maybe you could listen to what they have to say rather than writing it off so quickly.

Personally, I still find Bangkok and the rest of Thailand appealing in many ways but I will tell you that over the last few decades it has definitely lost some of its charm for me. For example, so many unique Thai small businesses, shops, restaurants, and bars have been replaced by huge shopping malls selling the same overpriced Prada, Gucci, Burberry crap that you can find in any big city anywhere else in the world. That is not progress in my view. I still find Thai people fairly pleasant by world standards, but I remember when "the Land of Smiles" was reality and not just a TAT slogan.

By the way, Thailand 30 years ago was not "primitive" or "undeveloped" just not as Westernized and with less of a consumer society than today. You are right that getting away from Sukhumvit and the rest of the BTS/MRT routes can give you a different perspective but the rot is spreading.

Their opinions are so thoroughly dismissable though.

Apart from one or two of the older guys on here, these people are a big part of the reason Thais see foreigners the way they do so why the hell would anyone give a toss what they think?

How totally stupid is it to pour scorn on Thais embracing consumerism after the same phenomenon has so generously lined the West's pockets over the decades. Maybe you'd prefer if they all remained on the 300 baht minimum wage?

Perhaps it isn't progress in your view but, to the Thais, your view doesn't count and long may that continue to be the case.

There are many older Thai people who would think exactly the same as me, after their old neighbourhoods and way of life have been destroyed by so-called progress. I suspect you know very little about what Thailand was like more than a few years ago so I'm not sure how you feel qualified to comment. If you regard consumerism as a great and wonderful way of life and mankind's greatest achievement I don't think there is much more that I can say to try to educate you. Maybe after you have some more years of life experience under your belt you might start to understand. In the meantime I would point out the your view of things counts as little as mine to the Thais, or do you think yours is more important somehow?

[SoiBiker]

Thailand is losing its charm, just like my home country of Australia long ago lost its charm and my old favourite Cambodia is also losing its charm. It's just the way things are going globally.

Maybe it's just you, rather than the world?

[SoiBiker]

Rather than being so dismissive of the opinion and sentiments of (some) older people, you might want to consider that they have a perspective on the subject that it is impossible for you to have. I don't know how long you have been here, but these older people have probably been around long enough to see a Thailand and Bangkok that you did not have the opportunity to see. Maybe you could listen to what they have to say rather than writing it off so quickly.

Personally, I still find Bangkok and the rest of Thailand appealing in many ways but I will tell you that over the last few decades it has definitely lost some of its charm for me. For example, so many unique Thai small businesses, shops, restaurants, and bars have been replaced by huge shopping malls selling the same overpriced Prada, Gucci, Burberry crap that you can find in any big city anywhere else in the world. That is not progress in my view. I still find Thai people fairly pleasant by world standards, but I remember when "the Land of Smiles" was reality and not just a TAT slogan.

By the way, Thailand 30 years ago was not "primitive" or "undeveloped" just not as Westernized and with less of a consumer society than today. You are right that getting away from Sukhumvit and the rest of the BTS/MRT routes can give you a different perspective but the rot is spreading.

Their opinions are so thoroughly dismissable though.

Apart from one or two of the older guys on here, these people are a big part of the reason Thais see foreigners the way they do so why the hell would anyone give a toss what they think?

How totally stupid is it to pour scorn on Thais embracing consumerism after the same phenomenon has so generously lined the West's pockets over the decades. Maybe you'd prefer if they all remained on the 300 baht minimum wage?

Perhaps it isn't progress in your view but, to the Thais, your view doesn't count and long may that continue to be the case.

There are many older Thai people who would think exactly the same as me, after their old neighbourhoods and way of life have been destroyed by so-called progress. I suspect you know very little about what Thailand was like more than a few years ago so I'm not sure how you feel qualified to comment. If you regard consumerism as a great and wonderful way of life and mankind's greatest achievement I don't think there is much more that I can say to try to educate you. Maybe after you have some more years of life experience under your belt you might start to understand. In the meantime I would point out the your view of things counts as little as mine to the Thais, or do you think yours is more important somehow?

I don't doubt that there are Thai people that bemoan the fact that the world changes. Old people are much the same anywhere, and doubtless always have been. The world continues to roll on regardless, though.

[alex88]

Thailand is losing its charm, just like my home country of Australia long ago lost its charm and my old favourite Cambodia is also losing its charm. It's just the way things are going globally.

Maybe it's just you, rather than the world?

I think you will find that it's a common sentiment that the world has become wrapped up in consumerism and has lost some of its soul. I love Thailand and I am happy here. My point was not to say there is anything specifically wrong with Thailand but that everywhere changes. I can see why my post came across as overly negative. I could be more balanced and say the world is changing and some things have been lost and some gained. Nothing is the same as before and sometimes that's a good thing and sometimes it's a bad thing.

[Cypress Hill]

Rather than being so dismissive of the opinion and sentiments of (some) older people, you might want to consider that they have a perspective on the subject that it is impossible for you to have. I don't know how long you have been here, but these older people have probably been around long enough to see a Thailand and Bangkok that you did not have the opportunity to see. Maybe you could listen to what they have to say rather than writing it off so quickly.

Personally, I still find Bangkok and the rest of Thailand appealing in many ways but I will tell you that over the last few decades it has definitely lost some of its charm for me. For example, so many unique Thai small businesses, shops, restaurants, and bars have been replaced by huge shopping malls selling the same overpriced Prada, Gucci, Burberry crap that you can find in any big city anywhere else in the world. That is not progress in my view. I still find Thai people fairly pleasant by world standards, but I remember when "the Land of Smiles" was reality and not just a TAT slogan.

By the way, Thailand 30 years ago was not "primitive" or "undeveloped" just not as Westernized and with less of a consumer society than today. You are right that getting away from Sukhumvit and the rest of the BTS/MRT routes can give you a different perspective but the rot is spreading.

Their opinions are so thoroughly dismissable though.

Apart from one or two of the older guys on here, these people are a big part of the reason Thais see foreigners the way they do so why the hell would anyone give a toss what they think?

How totally stupid is it to pour scorn on Thais embracing consumerism after the same phenomenon has so generously lined the West's pockets over the decades. Maybe you'd prefer if they all remained on the 300 baht minimum wage?

Perhaps it isn't progress in your view but, to the Thais, your view doesn't count and long may that continue to be the case.

There are many older Thai people who would think exactly the same as me, after their old neighbourhoods and way of life have been destroyed by so-called progress. I suspect you know very little about what Thailand was like more than a few years ago so I'm not sure how you feel qualified to comment. If you regard consumerism as a great and wonderful way of life and mankind's greatest achievement I don't think there is much more that I can say to try to educate you. Maybe after you have some more years of life experience under your belt you might start to understand. In the meantime I would point out the your view of things counts as little as mine to the Thais, or do you think yours is more important somehow?

The length of time one has plonked one's ass down in this country has little bearing on his knowledge or understanding of Thailand.

There are foreigners who've been here for decades who still can't utter a sentence in Thai so let's dispense with the "I've been here longer so mine's bigger than yours" puerile posturing, shall we?

Whilst I certainly don't believe that consumerism is something mankind should be proud of - that was hardly the point I was making - I DO believe that, regardless of whether or not it has enriched you personally, it has helped to make Westerners wealthier than the overwhelming majority of Thais.

It's here and, for better or worse, the locals have chosen to embrace it as a way of creating "value" and raising their standard of living.

I know 100% that the Thais wouldn't consider my view to be important but I can imagine them listening to some old farang suggesting they reject consumerism/capitalism when he's spent a lifetime directly or indirectly suckling at its teat and thinking "who IS this joker?"

Edited December 9, 2015 by Cypress Hill

[fang37]

It is a natural progression. People want the latest & greatest.

Would tourists come & live in huts, no sanitation, no shopping venues, no tourist attractions, sub-standard transport?

[huawei]

Rather than being so dismissive of the opinion and sentiments of (some) older people, you might want to consider that they have a perspective on the subject that it is impossible for you to have. I don't know how long you have been here, but these older people have probably been around long enough to see a Thailand and Bangkok that you did not have the opportunity to see. Maybe you could listen to what they have to say rather than writing it off so quickly.

Personally, I still find Bangkok and the rest of Thailand appealing in many ways but I will tell you that over the last few decades it has definitely lost some of its charm for me. For example, so many unique Thai small businesses, shops, restaurants, and bars have been replaced by huge shopping malls selling the same overpriced Prada, Gucci, Burberry crap that you can find in any big city anywhere else in the world. That is not progress in my view. I still find Thai people fairly pleasant by world standards, but I remember when "the Land of Smiles" was reality and not just a TAT slogan.

By the way, Thailand 30 years ago was not "primitive" or "undeveloped" just not as Westernized and with less of a consumer society than today. You are right that getting away from Sukhumvit and the rest of the BTS/MRT routes can give you a different perspective but the rot is spreading.

Their opinions are so thoroughly dismissable though.

Apart from one or two of the older guys on here, these people are a big part of the reason Thais see foreigners the way they do so why the hell would anyone give a toss what they think?

How totally stupid is it to pour scorn on Thais embracing consumerism after the same phenomenon has so generously lined the West's pockets over the decades. Maybe you'd prefer if they all remained on the 300 baht minimum wage?

Perhaps it isn't progress in your view but, to the Thais, your view doesn't count and long may that continue to be the case.

There are many older Thai people who would think exactly the same as me, after their old neighbourhoods and way of life have been destroyed by so-called progress. I suspect you know very little about what Thailand was like more than a few years ago so I'm not sure how you feel qualified to comment. If you regard consumerism as a great and wonderful way of life and mankind's greatest achievement I don't think there is much more that I can say to try to educate you. Maybe after you have some more years of life experience under your belt you might start to understand. In the meantime I would point out the your view of things counts as little as mine to the Thais, or do you think yours is more important somehow?

The length of time one has plonked one's ass down in this country has little bearing on his knowledge or understanding of Thailand.

There are foreigners who've been here for decades who still can't utter a sentence in Thai so let's dispense with the "I've been here longer so mine's bigger than yours" puerile posturing, shall we?

Whilst I certainly don't believe that consumerism is something mankind should be proud of - that was hardly the point I was making - I DO believe that, regardless of whether or not it has enriched you personally, it has helped to make Westerners wealthier than the overwhelming majority of Thais.

It's here and, for better or worse, the locals have chosen to embrace it as a way of creating "value" and raising their standard of living.

I know 100% that the Thais wouldn't consider my view to be important but I can imagine them listening to some old farang suggesting they reject consumerism/capitalism when he's spent a lifetime directly or indirectly suckling at its teat and thinking "who IS this joker?"

You are wrong. Most people who have lived here a long time do understand things better then someone who hasn't. It has a significant bearing. Most who have been here a long time. Have married, had children, bought property, live in moo bans where most were the only foreigner ,work here,sent their children to school, etc..etc..just as anywhere else..so it is not puerile..it's called life experiences amongst Thais in Thailand.

As to your general point, completely agree.

It's the commercialism of the west that has helped some secure a poor village farm girl!!

Everyone has a right to a better life..no one has a right to prevent that..

[Cypress Hill]

You are wrong. Most people who have lived here a long time do understand things better then someone who hasn't. It has a significant bearing. Most who have been here a long time. Have married, had children, bought property, live in moo bans where most were the only foreigner ,work here,sent their children to school, etc..etc..just as anywhere else..so it is not puerile..it's called life experiences amongst Thais in Thailand.

As to your general point, completely agree.

It's the commercialism of the west that has helped some secure a poor village farm girl!!

Everyone has a right to a better life..no one has a right to prevent that..

Those things you mentioned can be achieved by a guy whose been here for 3 years and knows more about Thailand and its people than a retiree who's been living in a gated community of farangs for a decade emerging only to frequent the local Irish pub for a Sunday roast.

[SoiBiker]

Agreed. Some people spend years here and barely learn a thing.

Also, some insist that only by marrying a Thai can you know anything about the country, despite having had a constant tour guide and translator from about the third bar they visited onwards. I'm not sure they learn more than those of us who had to figure things out ourselves.

[fang37]

Real Thailand is not BKK.

Pattaya has its attraction.

It is rural Thailand that has its own reality.

The people, the fauna & flora, national parks, special food.

That is real Thailand.

[SoiBiker]

Like any country, Thailand is the sum of its parts. The malls of Ratchaprasong are as much part of the 'real Thailand' as the fields of Isaan.

[fang37]

I think that Thailand could learn a lot from India regarding charm. India has historical palaces, promotes its animals with integrity. It has a body set up to warn tourists of scams. The sages with their devotees bathe in the Ganges is a site to see.

[huawei]

You are wrong. Most people who have lived here a long time do understand things better then someone who hasn't. It has a significant bearing. Most who have been here a long time. Have married, had children, bought property, live in moo bans where most were the only foreigner ,work here,sent their children to school, etc..etc..just as anywhere else..so it is not puerile..it's called life experiences amongst Thais in Thailand.

As to your general point, completely agree.

It's the commercialism of the west that has helped some secure a poor village farm girl!!

Everyone has a right to a better life..no one has a right to prevent that..

Those things you mentioned can be achieved by a guy whose been here for 3 years and knows more about Thailand and its people than a retiree who's been living in a gated community of farangs for a decade emerging only to frequent the local Irish pub for a Sunday roast.

You are referring to retirees only, and those living in certain circumstances. Retirees are a recent phenomenon anyway.

So before you start saying its puerile or has no relevance you should at least know the history of the person you are directing it at. Difficult on a web site normally on TV probably not..

[Cypress Hill]

You are wrong. Most people who have lived here a long time do understand things better then someone who hasn't. It has a significant bearing. Most who have been here a long time. Have married, had children, bought property, live in moo bans where most were the only foreigner ,work here,sent their children to school, etc..etc..just as anywhere else..so it is not puerile..it's called life experiences amongst Thais in Thailand.

As to your general point, completely agree.

It's the commercialism of the west that has helped some secure a poor village farm girl!!

Everyone has a right to a better life..no one has a right to prevent that..

Those things you mentioned can be achieved by a guy whose been here for 3 years and knows more about Thailand and its people than a retiree who's been living in a gated community of farangs for a decade emerging only to frequent the local Irish pub for a Sunday roast.

You are referring to retirees only, and those living in certain circumstances. Retirees are a recent phenomenon anyway.

So before you start saying its puerile or has no relevance you should at least know the history of the person you are directing it at. Difficult on a web site normally on TV probably not..

Where, exactly, did I say my comments were restricted to retirees?I just used "retiree" as an example.

There are plenty of under-50s who've been here for years who show the same lack of knowledge of Thailand as the old boys married to country farm hands and can only communicate with their wives using a dictionary.

I don't need to know the history of the person I addressed since it was his "length of residence = knowledge of Thailand" equation that I thought was puerile, not him personally

Now will you please stop boring us with your nitpicking

Edited December 9, 2015 by Cypress Hill

[SoiBiker]

We're all pretty ignorant about the place really, so I'm equally dubious of anyone who claims to know it all.

[Cypress Hill]

We're all pretty ignorant about the place really, so I'm equally dubious of anyone who claims to know it all.

As am I but some seem to place a great deal of importance on being "Thai-er than thou" as if it confers some sort of enhanced status on them at the beer bar

I'm British - I don't WANT to be Thai-er than anyone

[pwtmansions]

We're all pretty ignorant about the place really, so I'm equally dubious of anyone who claims to know it all.

I have found the biggest experts only live here 2 months per year

[soomak]

The buildings don't really matter. The people do. And there is no doubt that Thai people have started to change since they were persuaded aboard the consumer bandwagon, enslaved by debt and drip-fed spurious Western values.

Living standards may have risen - but at what cost as rampant materialism and narcissism combine to drive out care, compassion, a sense of community and other human values that are hallmarks of a civilised society.

Material possessions do not bring lasting happiness. You may own a new house, a car, washing machine, fridge, an expensive smartphone and the latest state-of-the-art digital entertainment centre. But, as the good book observes, if you have not charity you have nothing.

The Thai people's biggest mistake was not being unable to resist the siren call of the consumerist West. It was failing to heed the clarion call of self-sufficiency from their visionary King - a message which, as the unfettered exploitation of natural resources threatens Man's very survival, the whole world needs urgently to take to heart.

What a birthday present that would be!

A sufficiency economy? Is that the one where the poor just accept their lot?

He is probably referring to the examples of the great civilizations of North Korea, Cuba and the former Soviet Union, who resisted "western values" and became a pillar of happiness and prosperity...

Myanmar is another example that comes to mind, although they just awaken from 40 years of segregation to realize that maybe there is some sense in striving to have better healthcare, better education, longer life, lower crime rates, human rights, a centralized social safety net, freedom of speech, and all those other horrible things the "western civilizations" has brought on us...