Ozziepat Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 This has been said in different ways, but I'd like to put it more directly: When you borrow from any institution with no intention of repaying, you aren't screwing the institution (and no twisted rationale justifies the attempt). You are screwing ordinary people who will compensate the institution either through increased costs or taxes. Congratulations on your moral bankruptcy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konini Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 This has been said in different ways, but I'd like to put it more directly: When you borrow from any institution with no intention of repaying, you aren't screwing the institution (and no twisted rationale justifies the attempt). You are screwing ordinary people who will compensate the institution either through increased costs or taxes. Congratulations on your moral bankruptcy. Well said. We all pay for it in the end. I've heard and heard of several people boasting how they ran up huge credit and store cards and shortly before leaving took out bank loans and pay day lender loans then skipped the country - one had schnuffled over $20,000 altogether, and it sickens me. The worst thing is that nobody will chase them for the money, it isn't worth their time and money to chase someone living out of the country unless it's a significant amount. The debt collectors will make more effort than the banks but they will write it off pretty quickly. I really don't know how these people sleep at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangmai Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Same here, Konni, over and over, and many act like it was the biggest accomplishment of their lives. If you don't declare bankruptcy, they will still get a judgement against you for 10 years plus interest, and it can be renewed for an additional 10 years...if it attaches to real property, they will be the first ones paid, when it is sold, or could stop the transaction altogether, Bankruptcy laws are more stringent now, you will disclose everything, and lying would become a Federal matter. Student loans aren't dis-chargeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konying Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 This has been said in different ways, but I'd like to put it more directly: When you borrow from any institution with no intention of repaying, you aren't screwing the institution (and no twisted rationale justifies the attempt). You are screwing ordinary people who will compensate the institution either through increased costs or taxes. Congratulations on your moral bankruptcy. Well said. We all pay for it in the end. I've heard and heard of several people boasting how they ran up huge credit and store cards and shortly before leaving took out bank loans and pay day lender loans then skipped the country - one had schnuffled over $20,000 altogether, and it sickens me. The worst thing is that nobody will chase them for the money, it isn't worth their time and money to chase someone living out of the country unless it's a significant amount. The debt collectors will make more effort than the banks but they will write it off pretty quickly. I really don't know how these people sleep at night. Sorry to say, but its rubbish, We do not pay for it. Banks write it off as a loss and get a tax deduction. If everyone paid, banks would just find another way to create tax write offs and still raise the fees. With people defaulting and bad economy, banks still show billion dollar profits on quarterly basis,not to mention most important factor, banks gamble and loose 100 times more in shares and funds than the bad debts, and after having lost billions, executives get bonuses in the millions and pay rises, while we the people pay higher fees. I have a few cards for about 20 years now which cost me $350 per year in annual fees, thats $7000 already paid for nothing. Interest rate on those cards is around 26%, while banks borrow at 2%, personal loans at 7%-9%, rest assured, with interest being almost 15 times the cost or 3 times the rate, bank did not loose any money if someone defaulted when looking at the whole picture. Bank gives you 4% interest on your money, but charges you 26% on the card, plus the annual fees, plus $20 for late payment even if the payment should be $0.01 So who is the real crook? Should i default and not be able to repay, rest assured i will not loose any sleep over it, being well aware that over the years i was raped on yearly basis and in actual fact bank did not loose a cent, if anything even with me defaulting, bank would still be ahead over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konying Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Same here, Konni, over and over, and many act like it was the biggest accomplishment of their lives. If you don't declare bankruptcy, they will still get a judgement against you for 10 years plus interest, and it can be renewed for an additional 10 years...if it attaches to real property, they will be the first ones paid, when it is sold, or could stop the transaction altogether, Bankruptcy laws are more stringent now, you will disclose everything, and lying would become a Federal matter. Student loans aren't dis-chargeable. Thankfully, not everyone comes from a country, where government can rape you and still consider itself to be biggest democracy In OP's case, what happens in US or to US citizens has zero relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangmai Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) You should not rest easy because you will be paying more for a lot of things for decades. Many employers also look at your credit (in America), it's perfectly legal. "Delinquent" doesn't go over to well with landlords, either, who are also creditors. Pfizer makes an 8000% profit on a tablet of Zithromax...doesn't mean it's ok to steal from a pharmacy. Edited December 12, 2015 by bangmai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 The maxed out bank card - Thai or Australian? Credit card or debit card? Debit card? Come on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 The maxed out bank card - Thai or Australian? Credit card or debit card? Debit card? Come on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konying Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) You should not rest easy because you will be paying more for a lot of things for decades. Many employers also look at your credit (in America), it's perfectly legal. "Delinquent" doesn't go over to well with landlords, either, who are also creditors. Pfizer makes an 8000% profit on a tablet of Zithromax...doesn't mean it's ok to steal from a pharmacy. Again what happens in America or to Americans has no relevance to OP at all. In Australia, landlords can not look into your credit history easily, it cost money and most do not. Also after 7 years your credit history is cleared. People are not employees of the banks to take your comparison to Pfizer Bank willingly issues credit card, being well aware it is an unsecured loan, ie takes a risk. The return on banks gamble is ridiculous fees and interest rates. PS. I will be paying more respectively, because banks will continue to raise fees or introduce new fees using any excuse imaginable while still showing billions dollar profits Edited December 12, 2015 by konying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangmai Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Same here, Konni, over and over, and many act like it was the biggest accomplishment of their lives. If you don't declare bankruptcy, they will still get a judgement against you for 10 years plus interest, and it can be renewed for an additional 10 years...if it attaches to real property, they will be the first ones paid, when it is sold, or could stop the transaction altogether, Bankruptcy laws are more stringent now, you will disclose everything, and lying would become a Federal matter. Student loans aren't dis-chargeable. Thankfully, not everyone comes from a country, where government can rape you and still consider itself to be biggest democracy In OP's case, what happens in US or to US citizens has zero relevance. Try getting a non-recourse mortgage in Australia, with 3% down or even 50% down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konying Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Same here, Konni, over and over, and many act like it was the biggest accomplishment of their lives. If you don't declare bankruptcy, they will still get a judgement against you for 10 years plus interest, and it can be renewed for an additional 10 years...if it attaches to real property, they will be the first ones paid, when it is sold, or could stop the transaction altogether, Bankruptcy laws are more stringent now, you will disclose everything, and lying would become a Federal matter. Student loans aren't dis-chargeable. Thankfully, not everyone comes from a country, where government can rape you and still consider itself to be biggest democracy In OP's case, what happens in US or to US citizens has zero relevance. Try getting a non-recourse mortgage in Australia, with 3% down or even 50% down. What is a non-recourse mortgage? Again , 3rd time, what happens in America has no relevance to OP or this discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangmai Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) A non-recourse mortgage is what people get in 13 States, and that means that if you get sick of your house or it goes down in value, dramatically, you can throw the keys on the table, and all they get is the collateral; they can't come after you. I was told by the head of an Australian investor group, buying homes in America, that is something people can only dream about in OZ, and if they did have them, they sure as heck wouldn't be buying houses in Atlanta and Detroit. http://phoenixwealthgroup.com.au/about-salena-kulkarni/ from Canberra. Edited December 12, 2015 by bangmai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konying Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 A non-recourse mortgage is what people get in 13 States, and that means that if you get sick of your house or it goes down in value, dramatically, you can throw the keys on the table, and all they get is the collateral; they can't come after you. I was told by the head of an Australian investor group, buying homes in America, that is something people can only dream about in OZ, and if they did have them, they sure as heck wouldn't be buying houses in Atlanta and Detroit. http://phoenixwealthgroup.com.au/about-salena-kulkarni/ from Canberra. So not only we are back to America, which again for the 4th time has nothing to do with OP, but now someone told you what people in Australia dream about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konini Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Same here, Konni, over and over, and many act like it was the biggest accomplishment of their lives. If you don't declare bankruptcy, they will still get a judgement against you for 10 years plus interest, and it can be renewed for an additional 10 years...if it attaches to real property, they will be the first ones paid, when it is sold, or could stop the transaction altogether, Bankruptcy laws are more stringent now, you will disclose everything, and lying would become a Federal matter. Student loans aren't dis-chargeable. Thankfully, not everyone comes from a country, where government can rape you and still consider itself to be biggest democracy In OP's case, what happens in US or to US citizens has zero relevance. Deleted, too early in the morning D'oh! (replying to the wrong post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konini Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Same here, Konni, over and over, and many act like it was the biggest accomplishment of their lives. If you don't declare bankruptcy, they will still get a judgement against you for 10 years plus interest, and it can be renewed for an additional 10 years...if it attaches to real property, they will be the first ones paid, when it is sold, or could stop the transaction altogether, Bankruptcy laws are more stringent now, you will disclose everything, and lying would become a Federal matter. Student loans aren't dis-chargeable. Oddly enough I've never heard of an American doing it. Brits and Aussies, none of them with any assets and the money they have is what they stole from the financial institutions. The most infuriating thing for me is that they are usually so proud of it and encourage others who are thinking about retiring here to do the same. They're the same kind of people who cheat the system and get welfare benefits without deserving them. The way they look at it, they either aren't going back or it will be so long before they do that the debts will be written off, but if not and they go earlier, they'll be on a benefit with not enough income for a judgement - for the amounts involved of course there wouldn't be one. Won't matter to them if their credit is ruined, they won't be wanting to apply for a mortgage. Honestly don't know about student loans not being discharged - UK didn't have student loans when I was a student....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Can I just add that it's a jail able offense in Thailand to pass a cheque knowing there are insufficient funds in the account, the issue moves very rapidly out of the private and banking sectors, into the legal and police sectors. I don't see why failure to pay credit card debt should not be the same although admittedly I do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konini Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Can I just add that it's a jail able offense in Thailand to pass a cheque knowing there are insufficient funds in the account, the issue moves very rapidly out of the private and banking sectors, into the legal and police sectors. I don't see why failure to pay credit card debt should not be the same although admittedly I do not know. In UK and Aus, probably in the majority of countries but I only know about these two, it depends on the intent of the person when they were running up the debt. If they are an ordinary honest person who lost their etc and couldn't pay because they had no income, they are a lot different from someone racking up as much as possible with no intention of paying it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Can I just add that it's a jail able offense in Thailand to pass a cheque knowing there are insufficient funds in the account, the issue moves very rapidly out of the private and banking sectors, into the legal and police sectors. I don't see why failure to pay credit card debt should not be the same although admittedly I do not know. In UK and Aus, probably in the majority of countries but I only know about these two, it depends on the intent of the person when they were running up the debt. If they are an ordinary honest person who lost their etc and couldn't pay because they had no income, they are a lot different from someone racking up as much as possible with no intention of paying it back. In Thailand it doesn't matter what the reason, write a cheque that goes NSF and it's a police matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMBob Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 A non-recourse mortgage is what people get in 13 States.... If you're referring to the United States there or if you're suggesting that anyone in any state in the US commonly gets a non-recourse mortgage, whoever told you that is absolutely incorrect. Almost all (well over 90%) of home mortgages in the US are promptly sold by the bank or mortgage institution on the secondary market and a non-recourse mortgage doesn't qualify for sale on the secondary market (let alone qualify for Fannie Mae, VA, etc., participation or insurance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Australian banks can generally stop all accounts where money is owed on one however with pensions they are not able to hold I believe it is the last 6 pension payments. If he needs to best to get centrelink to transfer his pension now to a thai bank so he has some money. The moral situation is on thing, his survival is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naboo Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 The maxed out bank card - Thai or Australian? Credit card or debit card?Debit card? Come on.... As a student, I regularly maxed out my interest free loan service available on my debit card to the tune of £4500. The OP hasn't clarified and so is getting a load of replies, most of which are not helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suradit69 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 He should have talked with the hospital about making arrangements to pay the bill on a contract. Also, if he was in a private hospital, he should have been transferred into a gov't hospital as soon possible where the costs would have been much lower. If he has a pension, then he could be using the "combo" method to justify his retirement visa and doesn't need to have a full 800,000 baht in a bank account. Credit cards can be paid over time. He should make arrangements with the credit card company. There are very few pensioners who can't change their lifestyle in order to come up with another 5000 or 10,000 baht/month in order to pay off a debt. "He should have talked with the hospital about making arrangements to pay the bill on a contract." If he can't afford the monthly payments for the credit card, it would be the same for monthly payments to the hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konying Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Australian banks can generally stop all accounts where money is owed on one however with pensions they are not able to hold I believe it is the last 6 pension payments. If he needs to best to get centrelink to transfer his pension now to a thai bank so he has some money. The moral situation is on thing, his survival is another. No they can not. Bank would need a court order, which they will struggle to obtain on an unsecured loan such as a credit card . Court would not issue such an order without hearing defendant side of the story and in the case of OP being on a pension , the most bank will achieve is MAYBE an order to withhold $5-$10 per month . This order will cost bank in legal fees at least $10 000 that's providing person defaulting shows up to court instead of postponing 100 times by sending fax to court in the morning claiming health issues. Each time, it will cost bank $3000 in legal fees, as lawyer court appearance fee is $3000, no matter what the outcome is, hence you never hear banks in Australia taking anyone to court over credit card debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 He should have talked with the hospital about making arrangements to pay the bill on a contract. Also, if he was in a private hospital, he should have been transferred into a gov't hospital as soon possible where the costs would have been much lower. If he has a pension, then he could be using the "combo" method to justify his retirement visa and doesn't need to have a full 800,000 baht in a bank account. Credit cards can be paid over time. He should make arrangements with the credit card company. There are very few pensioners who can't change their lifestyle in order to come up with another 5000 or 10,000 baht/month in order to pay off a debt. "He should have talked with the hospital about making arrangements to pay the bill on a contract." If he can't afford the monthly payments for the credit card, it would be the same for monthly payments to the hospital. Not so. The hospitals here in Thailand don't charge usurious interest rates. The gov't hospitals don't charge interest at all. As I said, there are very few pensioners who can't make adjustments to their lifestyle and come up with another 5000 baht/month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangmai Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 A non-recourse mortgage is what people get in 13 States.... If you're referring to the United States there or if you're suggesting that anyone in any state in the US commonly gets a non-recourse mortgage, whoever told you that is absolutely incorrect. Almost all (well over 90%) of home mortgages in the US are promptly sold by the bank or mortgage institution on the secondary market and a non-recourse mortgage doesn't qualify for sale on the secondary market (let alone qualify for Fannie Mae, VA, etc., participation or insurance). wrong...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonrecourse_debt my last mortgage in AZ was sold to IndyMac. If the mortgage is a first, you can mail in the keys and be done with it. AZ is also one of the non-jusicial foreclosure States, but you probably don't know about that, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 that is why bankruptcy laws are put in place. court decides. period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slerickson Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) I can only speak about the in the USA . If you max out a card and fail to pay , they must serve you and take you to court to get a judgement . Then once they get the judgement and you fail to pay that , they must get an attachment of earnings through the courts . Then if you have money in the bank or a pension not attached to social security they can attach that . But you must be served . More to do all that then to just write it all off which most credit card companies will do .Not so sure about the write off. I owed Wells Fargo (they say) for a 90 $ service fee they hit me up for in a divorce. They sold it to some collectors and I got calls for 7 or 8 years. At first I told them to prove it which they couldn't but later whenever I got a call (that had silence as the auto dialed switches the call back to a collector) I would just hang up. For 90 bucks I was incredulous that they put so much effort into it. And failed Edited December 13, 2015 by slerickson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangmai Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 that is why bankruptcy laws are put in place. court decides. period. but in a non-judicial foreclosure State, what happens if you do not pay is determined when you sign, and you agree to it. The closest it get to a judge is the courthouse steps, where the auction is usually held. The non-judicial states like Virginia and Arizona cleaned up their messes a lot quicker, while the process is being dragged out for year in Illinois and Maryland. They even have lawyers that can guarantee they will drag it out for years, at times. The end result is always the same, and the scammers never save a dime, while they are living rent free for 2-3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 He could be sued for defrauding by maxing out his card knowing he had no means to pay the money back. The bank could make him pay back from his visa money. That`s my guess. That's not fraud, you can use every penny up to your limit whether you know you can pay it back or not. Banks wouldn't even bother to take the guy to court. courts are not sympathetic to CC companies. I reckon he could offer a very small amount a month and the bank will grab it with both hands. The bank could of course sell the debt to a collection agency, but what most people don't realise is once an agency buys the debt they then own it and have no contract whatsoever with the person they're chasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 High interest rates exist because banks are greedy and know certain people will default. I think there NEVER should be credit cards.....no cash, no buy.....but because there are, this happens. it's totally fine. banks still make zillions.. 100 million in USA on food stamps....they won't pay that back.. 100 zillion in bank bonuses ...... 100 zillion in debt added to National debt.....even with like 17 trillion GDP i'm talking about unsecured debt.....of course. you work your whole life for pennies, the CEO takes home 100 million USD.........so i put some blame on the banks....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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