Us Taxes

[JJDinsay]

Oh <deleted>!! The tax man cometh and I don't have any paperwork. any idea on how I can file an extension - tried the www.irs.gov site but would U believe it's unavailable? I also understand that if U file an extension, it does not mean that you don't have to pay up - if I get the extension but don't pay by the 15th - am I in trouble? Yikes!!

[mbkudu]

Where are you; Thailand or the US? If you're in Thailand and making less than

$70,000 US, don't bother paying taxes to the US government. If your're in America, I'm not sure, but I think you just pay a late penalty.

I'm saying this of course if you're making the money in Thailand.

[tutsiwarrior]

every US citizen has to file a yearly tax return (look at the front pages of your US passport)...an extension to filing deadline auto given until June to those that reside overseas. Don't matter if you make less than USD70k or not. A ridiculous requirement if you have no property, dependants or other obligations in the US. Some ###### in Congress wanted to have the 70k exclusion removed as US forces overseas have to pay the full whack. The poor guys in Iraq have to pay for the war as well as getting shot at.

As I've posted before...check out Taxplan Ltd in BKK, tel. 02 252 0177 to get a good deal on 1040 preparation.

[mbkudu]

every US citizen has to file a yearly tax return (look at the front pages of your US passport)...an extension to filing deadline auto given until June to those that reside overseas. Don't matter if you make less than USD70k or not. A ridiculous requirement if you have no property, dependants or other obligations in the US. Some ###### in Congress wanted to have the 70k exclusion removed as US forces overseas have to pay the full whack. The poor guys in Iraq have to pay for the war as well as getting shot at.

As I've posted before...check out Taxplan Ltd in BKK, tel. 02 252 0177 to get a good deal on 1040 preparation.

You are right. During the time that I lived in Thailand contiuously, I had to file

for zero everything. In their eyes I was just a zero, some freak living in a foreign

country.

[mbkudu]

The Man has always got you by the balls no matter how free you think you are.

[bangsaen bob]

You do not have to file if your gross income is less than $7,800 single or $15,600 married. More if over 65. You can get the Forms and instructions for overseas filers at the Am. Consulate. across from the embassy. Once the IRS has your Thai address, they will post you the forms every year. Doesn't that bite

[Khun Larry]

Where are you; Thailand or the US? If you're in Thailand and making less than $70,000 US, don't bother paying taxes to the US government. If your're in America, I'm not sure, but I think you just pay a late penalty.   

I'm saying this of course if you're making the money in Thailand.

Does this $70,000 exclusion include investments?

If you live in Thailand and make $20,000 from bonds is that taxable?

Anyone know?

[mbkudu]

Where are you; Thailand or the US? If you're in Thailand and making less than $70,000 US, don't bother paying taxes to the US government. If your're in America, I'm not sure, but I think you just pay a late penalty.    

I'm saying this of course if you're making the money in Thailand.

Does this $70,000 exclusion include investments?

If you live in Thailand and make $20,000 from bonds is that taxable?

Anyone know?

What the Septics don't know can't hurt'em.

[Khun Larry]

What the Septics don't know can't hurt'em.

Not enough respect for Uncle Sam. Collecting taxes is about fear which I don't need.

Also they do know. The bonds are in the US. The income is definitely reportable

So my question remains: Is this income taxable or is there a $70,000 deduction for suffering in LOS?

[cathyy]

The bond income is taxable, and no exclusion for living in Thailand applies...it's US income. You'll get the standard deduction and all that. Did you just move to Thailand this year? Was it job-related? If so, you might be able to clean up with the moving expenses form. You still have to report the Thai income, but you file an exclusion form so you don't have to pay taxes on it. You get to deduct the cost of housing and stuff while living abroad.

[Khun Larry]

The bond income is taxable, and no exclusion for living in Thailand applies...it's US income.  You'll get the standard deduction and all that.

Thanks for the reply and the tip on relocation expenses. Sounds like passive income like investments back home is taxed as usual.

There must be a loophole out there for the investment income. I'll continue to look.

[mbkudu]

Any income made by a US citizen outside the US that is less than $70,000 US is not taxed by the US government. If it is over that, I'm not sure what will happen

if you don't declare it. I'm not sure how they could know. Most people making that kind of money most likely are taking it 'home' so that's probably where they'd get you.

[lopburi3]

Any income made by a US citizen outside the US that is less than $70,000 US is not taxed by the US government.

That is income earned outside the US while the US citizen resides (tax abode)outside the USA. If any of it was earned inside the USA it is taxed as normal US income/pension etc.

[Crash999]

Does this $70,000 exclusion include investments?

If you live in Thailand and make $20,000 from bonds is that taxable?

If you are a US citizen and live outside the US, you are required to file- no if's, and's, or but's about that one. Unless you have income above US$80k (not $70k) you won't have to worry about tax- so it's just a matter of filling out some forms and sending them in.

But it's important to have a tax return on record- no one knows what metrics the IRS uses for their audits, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that having many years of missing returns would be a red flag.

So if you feel you might ever return to the US to live or to visit, be sure to file. Anyone living outside the US gets an automatic 2-month extension to June 15th, so you still have time.

The forms you need are the US Individual Income Tax form 1040 and the Foreign Earned Income form 2555. Both are available for download... However, I recommend if you're filing an overseas return for the first time then use something like TurboTax (a dodgy copy from Panthip will work) so you know which lines to fill out.

TurboTax will ask you a lot of irrelevant questions that'll take up your time, but after doing it once it becomes easy to file the next year without having to go through all of the various steps- just copy the lines filled in by TurboTax and update with any new info.

Don't forget to sign your return before sending it in. Also, my TurboTax screwed up my long Thai address so I had to white-out a couple of things and add a zip code.

From looking at my forms this year it seems like the US$20k won't be taxable as you live overseas. But don't take my word for it- go through the exercises on your own to make sure.

Overall, seems like a pain in the ass and is something easily procrastinated- but at the end of the day it's relatively easy and a good thing to do.

Now... if someone could change the law so that US citizens living overseas paid no US taxes whatsoever, I'd be grateful!

Cheers!

[KevinN]

About 5 years ago I was notified by IRS that as long as I was retired and my pensions were my only income that I didn't need to file unless something changed,

I took the letter to my tax man as I didn't trust the sneaky bastards,because I filed bankruptcy again IRS in 91 for $287,000 and it was granted, and he checked and said that was true,so I haven't filed since.

[lopburi3]

I took the letter to my tax man as I didn't trust the sneaky bastards,because I filed bankruptcy again IRS in 91 for $287,000 and it was granted, and he checked and said that was true,so I haven't filed since.

Were they aware you had foreign bank account/interest income when this was said (if you do)? Think it may have something to do with them having withholding power in the US but can't believe that it would apply for overseas.

[KevinN]

That was while living in the States,and I neither had or have an interest earning bank acct. either here or there.I always keep my money in old tobacco cans and put just enough in the bank to satisfy immigration.

If I would have had anything ,they would have got it as when you file bankruptcy against IRS they have 2 years to try to get their money before the legal papers are filed for protection,thats the law.

[Khun Larry]

If you are a US citizen and live outside the US, you are required to file- no if's, and's, or but's about that one. Unless you have income above US$80k (not $70k) you won't have to worry about tax- so it's just a matter of filling out some forms and sending them in.

But it's important to have a tax return on record- no one knows what metrics the IRS uses for their audits, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that having many years of missing returns would be a red flag.

Thanks for that really goon information. You are spot on about filing. A benefit is three yearafter you file youi are clean with the IRS for that period. Also when you die the final tax return will definitely need to be filed out if you own anything so not filing foe many yeard can put your assets at risk.

There seems to be some different opinions on whether income from Bonds (which are US Bonds), or stock investments for that matter will be taxable or not. The search continues as the answer has a big impact on retirement money.

Gracias iik

[Rhys]

Come again, if you make less than 7,800 USD, you don't have to file abroad. If you make over 70K you do? is this on a IRS info bit?

[Crash999]

There seems to be some different opinions on whether income from Bonds (which are US Bonds), or stock investments for that matter will be taxable or not. The search continues as the answer has a big impact on retirement money.

I found this on a US military website:

What Foreign Earned Income Is & What It Isn't

FEI is income "earned" from "foreign" sources. "Earned" includes salaries, wages, commissions, fees, bonuses, profits, royalties, and rents. It does not include pensions, annuities, interest, dividends, gambling winnings, or alimony. While these items cannot be excluded, a foreign tax credit is normally allowed for foreign taxes paid on these forms of income). "Foreign" includes any source outside the United States, except sources from the United States Government or its agencies.

Hmmm... would seem that the exclusion wouldn't apply to bonds. As rents are included it'd seem that renting out a property is a better alternative as it'd be tax-free, assuming one is under the exclusion.

Best bet would be to consult a professional on this if one is moving out here and intends to live off bond income.

Overall, seems rediculous that the US government tries to tax the income of those citizens living outside the country who don't use any US facilities and have no intention of returning. Might be renouncing my citizenship before I hit retirement age.

[Crash999]

Come again, if you make less than 7,800 USD, you don't have to file abroad. If you make over 70K you do? is this on a IRS info bit?

To make it simple- if you earn less than US$80k/yr (actually, more than that with various deductions) then you most likely don't need to pay tax.

Best to use a tax prep program to make sure.

If you don't owe tax then you don't always need to file- but it's a good idea to file anyway.