it's time to bargain when buying a condo in Pattaya

[GOLDBUGGY]

If Pattaya was you typical normal city, then you could expect prices to drop when it is a buyers market, but this is not so for Pattaya. Just look at the hotels there and how they do things. When the vacancy rates are high there prices go up, and not down like one expects.

So part of the problem with Pattaya is that you are dealing with Thais. A Thai would sooner hold a property sitting empty for a few years, and wait for the market to come back, rather than selling at a huge discount. You just need to look at all the new high rise buildings they have there, then look at night time to so no lights on in this building.

Another problem one faces there in Pattaya is that many condos are owned by Farangs. As we all know it is difficult for a Farang to get a Mortgage, so many of these places are paid by in cash. So if they have to go home for an extended period, like medical treatment, they are not as pressured to sell the property first as it is not costing them money. So they would sooner rent it out at a huge discount then sell it and take a huge loss.

Another problem with Pattaya is many people own condos there as a vacation property or seasonal condos. If they can get there selling price then they would sell at a nice profit and perhaps buy a newer one. But again they are in no rush or pressured to sell at a huge discount or loss.

Many people also own condos in Pattaya as investments. I knew one guy from the UK that owned 25 of them, and had some Thai Woman Managing his properties for him. All of his properties were up for sale also but he would never sell any at a huge discount. He would much sooner try to rent them out even at a low rental fee, then sell at a loss. Which brings me to my last point.

Pattaya has many transient visitors. People who want to rent for 3 months, or 6 months, or even a year, and don't want to buy a condo. They don't care if they are paying more for a short term lease. It will still be cheaper than a hotel and probably nicer to. So as long as Pattaya is Pattaya you will always have people willing to rent a condo. Even if the condos vastly outnumber the renters.

If you ever compare condo sales prices to that condo rental price, you will notice a striking difference in Pattaya. That it appears as though the Condos are overpriced or the rents are too low. They always appear as poor investments compared to normal places. Which may not be the case if the seller is asking far more than what he paid for it.

You can always negotiate rental prices, especially on longer term leases, but getting a condo at a 40% discount is very few and far between. You can always get lucky I guess, but what you are more likely to find is that after making 20 such offers at a 40% discount, and being rejected each time, you will give up.

[newnative]

Yet another poster, Goldbuggy, wrongly equating the number of lights on at a condo at night to determine if a highrise project is a success or failure. Here's a suggestion, instead of counting the number of lights on, go during the day and look at the windows. Most new condos don't come with drapes--if you see a new condo with curtains or blinds, someone owns it--they just might not be there that often. Use my example of Lumpini Park Beach highrise condo--very few lights on during the week but look at the windows--almost all of them have window treatments. A few condos here and there still to be sold, mostly on the lower floors, but the large majority are sporting curtains. Even Centric Sea, just opened, has quite a few condos already showing curtains in the windows. The poster who mentioned he lives in the shadow of Centric Sea and doesn't see many lights on at night should look at the windows during the day instead. In a sense, Goldbuggy sort of gave the reason why condos can sit empty while the owners are elsewhere. The maintenance fees are so reasonable here it's cheap to have a Pattaya condo and only use it occasionally. And, not be in a hurry to sell it since it is not costing much to maintain it. I would love to keep a small condo in the USA to go to now and then but the monthly condo fees would eat me alive.

One correction, I think Pattaya actually does better with rental returns than Bangkok. My partner and I looked into buying a BKK condo to rent out but when we crunched the numbers it was clear we could do better in Pattaya. Desirable condos in desirable areas in BKK close to the subway are expensive but the rents are low. A condo bought for the same price in Pattaya is likely to rent for more. The key is to buy a desirable condo in a desirable area without a lot of competition. And, an oceanview helps a lot. Try to avoid buying something that has 900 almost identical copies and the only difference is pool view or parking lot view. Hard to make your condo stand out to a potential renter in that environment.

[loppylugs1]

Forgetting one thing,flipping or not most if not all will be on bank loans,and Thailand being the most personally indebted in the world starts the alarm bells ringing,couple of guys known (farangs) were not just burnt but roasted at having to sell up

[VIPinthailand]

received discount for Laguna and Maldives by email.

still too expensive.. for 6 millions bahts I can get a very nice house in South Europe. why buy in Thailand when I can get much better in Europe and own the land?

[mcfish]

received discount for Laguna and Maldives by email.

still too expensive.. for 6 millions bahts I can get a very nice house in South Europe. why buy in Thailand when I can get much better in Europe and own the land?

Because you can't walk Down the street in Europe and get your bat sucked for 500 baht

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[huawei]

Does anyone think there maybe any bargains to be had at the base. Thai or farang quota. Sold out super quick.? How long in general do people have to close a contract/ transfer. Thanks.

[hawker9000]

If Pattaya was you typical normal city, then you could expect prices to drop when it is a buyers market, but this is not so for Pattaya. Just look at the hotels there and how they do things. When the vacancy rates are high there prices go up, and not down like one expects.

So part of the problem with Pattaya is that you are dealing with Thais. A Thai would sooner hold a property sitting empty for a few years, and wait for the market to come back, rather than selling at a huge discount. You just need to look at all the new high rise buildings they have there, then look at night time to so no lights on in this building.

Another problem one faces there in Pattaya is that many condos are owned by Farangs. As we all know it is difficult for a Farang to get a Mortgage, so many of these places are paid by in cash. So if they have to go home for an extended period, like medical treatment, they are not as pressured to sell the property first as it is not costing them money. So they would sooner rent it out at a huge discount then sell it and take a huge loss.

Another problem with Pattaya is many people own condos there as a vacation property or seasonal condos. If they can get there selling price then they would sell at a nice profit and perhaps buy a newer one. But again they are in no rush or pressured to sell at a huge discount or loss.

Many people also own condos in Pattaya as investments. I knew one guy from the UK that owned 25 of them, and had some Thai Woman Managing his properties for him. All of his properties were up for sale also but he would never sell any at a huge discount. He would much sooner try to rent them out even at a low rental fee, then sell at a loss. Which brings me to my last point.

Pattaya has many transient visitors. People who want to rent for 3 months, or 6 months, or even a year, and don't want to buy a condo. They don't care if they are paying more for a short term lease. It will still be cheaper than a hotel and probably nicer to. So as long as Pattaya is Pattaya you will always have people willing to rent a condo. Even if the condos vastly outnumber the renters.

If you ever compare condo sales prices to that condo rental price, you will notice a striking difference in Pattaya. That it appears as though the Condos are overpriced or the rents are too low. They always appear as poor investments compared to normal places. Which may not be the case if the seller is asking far more than what he paid for it.

You can always negotiate rental prices, especially on longer term leases, but getting a condo at a 40% discount is very few and far between. You can always get lucky I guess, but what you are more likely to find is that after making 20 such offers at a 40% discount, and being rejected each time, you will give up.

This gets parroted here all the time; the bit about Thais jacking UP their prices when business is bad and markets are down. Rank over-generalization with some urban myth mixed in for flavor. Somebody sees some inflation and confuses it with total lack of sense. Yeah, some old-school Thais still living in the 19th century will hold out for unrealistic prices. Some vendors are pretty dim bulbs, but eventually figure it out when they keep seeing customers heading off in the direction of their competitors. And then there are the foreigners who're paying more for pizzas or breakfast or whatever, and fail to distinguish between inflation, which IS a reality, and this idea that Thais react to every market downturn, in every case, by raising prices. But I haven't seen hotel room rates this low in high season in YEARS. Many years.

Only the government suffers from this delusion & lack of savvy. 'No concept of the western tourists, that is tourists who actually SPEND MONEY, being driven away, disincentivized by the rising fees, police corruption, visa challenges, "airport taxes", greedy taxi drivers, more & more desparate scammers, laxly handled thai-on-foreigner crime, and govt-encouraged xenophobia in general. THAT'S equivalent to raising prices in a failing economy - and is doing the most long-term damage to markets in Thailand.

Edited December 16, 2015 by hawker9000

[newnative]

To (maybe) answer Huawei, The Base is scheduled to be done in April 2016 but I've heard that it might be done earlier, in late February or maybe early March, to take advantage of the temporary reduction in the transfer taxes, which will save both the buyers and the developer money when the condo transfers are done. If this is the case, buyers might start receiving letters from The Base in late January or early February. If a buyer is unable to transfer early, they might be able to postpone the transfer, citing the original April finish date, and delay the transfer while they look for a buyer to sell the contract to. Haven't been following it too closely but last time I checked prices still seemed to be around 100,000 Baht a sq. meter for the higher floor condos with seaviews. Anybody with more info?

[arunsakda]

I would like to know if someone has bargained for a new condo and how much cheaper he paid.

I think after visiting their site , just say you are interested but you want 40 percent discount because you have other condo to visit. I would never pay the price stated on their website or advertising.

In a previous thread ​VIPinthailand already claimed to have purchased three condos by demanding a huge discount. Why ask such a question if one is such a seasoned and successful Real Estate investor? Obviously other buyers must have had similar success. Just march in their office and demand a large discount. Surely the owners will be happy to sell for a loss to others as well.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/859563-premium-paid-for-condo-in-foreign-name/

Posted 2015-10-02 14:20:03

fix your price yourself like :" I want a 40 % discount or no deal, another company is offering me already 30%"

I bought already 3 condos like that... at discount price.

Edited by VIPinthailand, 2015-10-02 14:20:22.

Edited December 16, 2015 by arunsakda

[zierf1]

Building costs are extremely low in Thailand. Workers are paid 300 baht a day so construction costs must be negligible. So why are prices so high? Must be mainly fluff/profit. I could buy a cheaper condo in Cleveland and get more space.

[loppylugs1]

To (maybe) answer Huawei, The Base is scheduled to be done in April 2016 but I've heard that it might be done earlier, in late February or maybe early March, to take advantage of the temporary reduction in the transfer taxes, which will save both the buyers and the developer money when the condo transfers are done. If this is the case, buyers might start receiving letters from The Base in late January or early February. If a buyer is unable to transfer early, they might be able to postpone the transfer, citing the original April finish date, and delay the transfer while they look for a buyer to sell the contract to. Haven't been following it too closely but last time I checked prices still seemed to be around 100,000 Baht a sq. meter for the higher floor condos with seaviews. Anybody with more info?

Just how did you garner this information?you have to have been close to the developer to deliver this gobbleygook Could drive a coach and horses through some of your past statements and yes developers would steam ahead with or without units being sold,as long as it was not their money being used ie the banks. Developers will tell you anything,anything at all to get their hands in your back pocket All around me I see unsold flats condos even completed blocks houses,some people walking away from Northpoint for instance nursing a million and a half loss on purchase price,(yes he shoved off to Portugal)house owners taking a 2 million hit on re-selling,that is if they can sell,and up you pop telling all fine and steaming ahead,sorry but putting supposed drapes in lower floors does not suggest anything

I l do not believe anything you spout and yes only a few days left to see if that presumption of yours re Centric is true,I reckon come New Years eve,still the same amount of lights on at nighttime ie 7% of total,and those Ducati motorbikes are going to be in freeflow (or not)

One more thing to compound events in Thailand ,especially the US raising interest rates yesterday with the intention of another four next year ,this will stuff Thailand into a cocked hat, make borrowing much more expensive

As VIP states... amount of money wanted here for purchase compared to southern Europe is to say the least remarkable,poor quality builds litter the place,The Waterfront I would consider now structurally unsound,due to water ingress,salt air corrosion of reinforcements etc,and that monstrosity Pattaya Pride,already the flippers are at it 2.6 mil plus,not detailing anything ,but 10 baht would not get me into the place

Edited December 17, 2015 by loppylugs1

[newnative]

I think you should change your name to Loopy rather than Loppy with some of your comments. What was gobbleygook about what I said regarding The Base? The April 2016 finish date is on their website--which also tracks their construction progress. Transfer taxes have been temporarily lowered at the Land Office--that's not gobbleygook--and it's smart business to try to take advantage of that--when you will be transferring around a 1000 units.

I'd love to know how you came up with your 7% lights on at night figure to track sales--that's such a scientific and totally accurate gauge of sales. Maybe try to patent it. Instead, why don't you just ask the sales staff? Or, pretend to be a buyer and see what is still left for sale. If the number of units sold is, indeed, 7% I'll treat you to dinner at the restaurant of your choice.

With Centric, the developer has show models on floor 31 of the A Building and they decorated models for sale on floors 7 and 10--I think all but 3 or 4 of the decorated models have sold. They may doing the same for floor 3 and 4 in Building B since the decorated models sold well.

The number of lights on at a condo complex is not indicative of anything--but you and VIP can drive around at night to your hearts content carefully counting the lights--and you'll still be in the dark. It probably slipped your mind that I was referring to Lumpini Park Beach condo when I said there will be more lights on than normal come New Years as a lot of the absentee BKK owners will come for the holiday. But there will still likely be more dark rooms than ones lit up--even though the complex is mostly all sold. With your scientific formula you will probably gauge it at around 10% sold.

I do agree that there are plenty of unsold condos and I never said otherwise. But, it's also true that desirable condos in desirable areas where buyers want to be are selling fine in a tough market. The Base and Centric Sea are two good examples. Possibly Cetus in Jomtien. There are probably some in Naklua/Wongamat, too. The glut stems from too many undesirable condos being built in undesirable areas where not enough buyers want to be. And, once again, buying isn't for everyone--for many, renting is the better option.

[loppylugs1]

Ask the sales staff? right LOL LOL

Now as I have stated I would not trust my own shadow here in Thailand,especially from developers,not long to go in Centric from 70% down to 7% free Ducati (or not)

[KittenKong]

The number of lights on at a condo complex is not indicative of anything--

It certainly is indicative of occupancy. When condos were sold as shells I found that looking for air-con units gave a good indication of how many units were sold. This still works quite well for View Talay buildings, but not in the new style of fully-furnished condo one generally finds now.

I do agree that there are plenty of unsold condos and I never said otherwise. But, it's also true that desirable condos in desirable areas where buyers want to be are selling fine in a tough market. The Base and Centric Sea are two good examples. Possibly Cetus in Jomtien.

Cetus has just two units left, as far as I know. I looked at one of them and quite liked it but the price (well over 100k/sqm by the time the extras were factored in) was much too high. A cracking view of Laem Chabang though (yes, Laem Chabang ).

[huawei]

Thanks. My interest in the base is location, developer,plus that the 49% quota is not a factor. That the market is there for both Thais and foreigners. It's just hard to get your head around some of these prices. The value of the baht will also be an important factor..just hoping to get a reasonable deal with a good exchange rate..Also surely something like the base is in a completely different segment of the market to say a Cetus. I have a beach condo ( not in Pattaya/jomtien) fully sold but hardly any residence..very few lights..so I am interested in a more in town condo..again appreciate the comments.

[Jip99]

Thai price is a myth created by a TV poster and then repeated so many times that it became true.

I went with GF whilst she was condo shopping to at least a dozen projects and nobody offered her a " thai" price. Is there a secret nod or wink or something?

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

You haven't been in Thailand at all very long, have you?

[newnative]

Yes, I, too, would like to know the names of the 3 condos that VIP bought at a 40% discount. I'll bet another free dinner that they weren't at The Base, Cetus, or Centric Sea. Remember, this is the guy who counts the number of lights on to judge whether a condo is a success or not. And, to Kittenkong, yes, the number of lights on does show occupancy at that moment in time, or lack of occupancy, but it's not an accurate gauge of sales or the success of a project. You probably know the tall white and blue tile maybe 30 story condo at the end of Pratamnack Soi 6 right on the ocean. It has a Thai name I can't remember and the condos are priced way above my pay grade. I used to look at that condo when I lived at VT3 and I don't think I ever saw more than a dozen lights on at night, except at holidays. I think the condos are all sold since it's an older building but if VIP drives by tonight and counts the lights on he's going to think most of the condos are unsold and it's a failed project.

[newnative]

I think The Base has been popular with both Thais and foreigners, as has Centric. With both projects it's the great location, high-rise rather than low-rise, and well-known developers that aren't going to disappear into the night. Despite what other posters have said, I do think prices at The Base, and Centric, are in the 100,000 Baht range for the high floors with seaviews. Lower floors are, of course, cheaper. My partner and I were looking at buying a condo as a rental at The Base and he found a 29sqm condo on I believe floor 5 or 6 facing out on the north side of B Building for 1.85 or 1.89MB, if I remember correctly, on one of the Thai websites. So, if you don't need a view, you can get into the building for under 2MB. You might find a pool view lower floor 1BR for around 2MB, maybe less. I know someone is going to get on and moan and groan about not being able to 'swing a cat' in a condo of around 30sqm. But, not everybody needs or wants a large space--read up on the small home movement--and many appreciate having a gym, sky lounge, parking garage, rooftop and ground pools, and a large library--all of which I think The Base has. Different strokes for different folks.

[newnative]

You, know, I was just thinking that would be your lame answer when I suggested you check with the sales staff. But, never mind that. How are you doing with counting the windows with curtains on them? Remember floor 31 is the show floor so don't count them--although they will sell in a heartbeat when they are put up for sale, if they are not already spoken for. Decorator floors 7 and 10 are all sold except for I think 3 condos so count all of them and subtract 3. Floor 3 has a guy who has moved in but hasn't got his curtains up yet and still has the brown paper on the windows for privacy so count 1 for that. Ok, get cracking and report back toot sweet!

[Don Mega]

You seem to be having a nice solid conversation with yourself there newnative.

[huawei]

I think The Base has been popular with both Thais and foreigners, as has Centric. With both projects it's the great location, high-rise rather than low-rise, and well-known developers that aren't going to disappear into the night. Despite what other posters have said, I do think prices at The Base, and Centric, are in the 100,000 Baht range for the high floors with seaviews. Lower floors are, of course, cheaper. My partner and I were looking at buying a condo as a rental at The Base and he found a 29sqm condo on I believe floor 5 or 6 facing out on the north side of B Building for 1.85 or 1.89MB, if I remember correctly, on one of the Thai websites. So, if you don't need a view, you can get into the building for under 2MB. You might find a pool view lower floor 1BR for around 2MB, maybe less. I know someone is going to get on and moan and groan about not being able to 'swing a cat' in a condo of around 30sqm. But, not everybody needs or wants a large space--read up on the small home movement--and many appreciate having a gym, sky lounge, parking garage, rooftop and ground pools, and a large library--all of which I think The Base has. Different strokes for different folks.

Yes, take away the demand from the Russians and business must be booming. I really can't believe the mods allow you to post such drivel.

This place is very popular with Thais..

[VIPinthailand]

interior design of all these condo are awful.

please hire a hotel designer. wooden floor, quality window, quality bed, thick door ...

Edited December 17, 2015 by VIPinthailand

[newnative]

Actually, Don Mega, I was conversing with Huawei regarding The Base and Loppy and VIP regarding Centric and the joys of counting condo lights at night. You're sort of coming into the conversation at, hopefully, the end.

[Rimmer]

Flame from a wannabe mod removed

[john1000]

The days when I wanted to buy a condo in Thailand have gone. I enjoy short term breaks and renting. Reason that Pattaya will not be so desirable in a few years judging by the attitude of many Thais towards Farang.

Many condos are overpriced if in a good location but very saleable. VT6 for example sell studios for 5.5 m and get that price.

[VIPinthailand]

I share John1000 pov.

we can not even get a double entry visa and not sure about retirement visa at 50. one day they will push it to 60 or more.

I prefer spend my summer in southern Europe. lot of good food, and a little comfy house that is mine.

Edited December 17, 2015 by VIPinthailand

[anto]

>>I prefer spend my summer in southern Europe. lot of good food, and a little comfy house that is mine.<<

Begs the question ,why as you state you are looking fior a Condo in Patts then .?...or is this just a post for Trolling ?

Edited December 17, 2015 by anto

[KittenKong]

we can not even get a double entry visa and not sure about retirement visa at 50. one day they will push it to 60 or more.

Possible, but I dont think they will.

They may increase the financial requirements. They did this before but anyone already in receipt of an extension was allowed to continue to benefit from the old rules.

[loppylugs1]

The days when I wanted to buy a condo in Thailand have gone. I enjoy short term breaks and renting. Reason that Pattaya will not be so desirable in a few years judging by the attitude of many Thais towards Farang.

Many condos are overpriced if in a good location but very saleable. VT6 for example sell studios for 5.5 m and get that price.

Agree,condo living gets you into the centre of things,houses not so, more spread ,and that is where the collapse of property started,it will eat into the entire fabric of Pattaya,its a dump.

As VIP stated good to get a two base aspect,Southern Europe and Patts for a few months,just the damned baggage,3 dogs and the cat,Emirates are calling the shots though The Thai wife not so sure,you realise the tree is not far away,and getting them looked after while away is peanuts here,literary a bag now and again,,not so Portugal,least they will not be eaten there

[VIPinthailand]

>>I prefer spend my summer in southern Europe. lot of good food, and a little comfy house that is mine.<<

Begs the question ,why as you state you are looking fior a Condo in Patts then .?...or is this just a post for Trolling ?

maybe I was trolling or maybe I changed my mind.