New Tourism Minister Prefers Quality To Quantity

[kmart]

Its just another style-over-substance edict from the Ministry Of Surreal Jingoism. These people go on extensive "fact-finding" missions overseas (on taxpayer's money, natch) to go shopping and gamb,... Ooops! ... Go finding out about how developed countries manage sustainable tourism and develop system to control the worse excesses of tourism. Probably.

The same people own prawn farms; illegal factories; encroach on public land / protected forests; and generally see "development" as something surrounded by concrete. Nevermind, blame it all on the tourists, eh?

[PeaceBlondie]

I don't want quality infrastructure when i come to Thailand.

...........I like the outdoor beer bars, the food on the street ,the wrong orders, the chaotic roads ,the mai pen rai attitude etc

That is part of the reason i love Thailand. Take it away and what have you really got.

We're not talking about expatriates staying here long-term; we're talking about tourists. I have no friends back home, with the dosh to spend in their middle or senior years, who want filthy streets, broken pathways, touts peddling sex VCD's and more, live wires dangling in their face, chaotic traffic, thieving tuktuk drivers, and waitstaff who can't take an order. They want to drink out of the tap, clean their fingers with actual napkins (not toilet tissue), have their tourist English understood, swim in unpolluted water, go to motels with water in the pool and toilets that flush.....

Tourists who like filth and disorder can go to lots of nearby countries, too. Besides, lost baggage is not a "mai bpen rai" event.

[Tolley]

I don't want quality infrastructure when i come to Thailand.

I don't want Gullivers or 5 star hotels or masses of huge concrete shopping malls.

There is a market elsewhere for that and that is well Singapore or lots of European tourist destinations.

I like the outdoor beer bars, the food on the street ,the wrong orders, the chaotic roads ,the mai pen rai attitude etc

That is part of the reason i love Thailand. Take it away and what have you really got.

I feel supremely confident that things are not going to change too much in the future judging by the pronouncements that are comimg out. The Thais are dreaming if they think they are ever going to corner the high end of the tourist market.

There is a market for guys like you, but understand that some might believe that concentrating on this market alone has significant costs to Thai culture, the brand of Thailand and work ethics of certain non Bangkok areas and while there are revenue benefits, it is a niche market rather than the best single mass market to focus on. It may not be the best use of beach front space for instance, to have an 80b beer bar when there are probably many non beer bar type people willing to pay more to sit somewhere nice and perhaps spend more without the requisite connect 4 playing escort to help you drink your bottle of beer. I am completely of the belief that money gained easily gets spent easily, and much of the easily earned money from beer bars ends up being wasted in gambling, drugs and a very small amount gets sent upcountry as a subsidy for people who should be encouraged to do something a lot more productive. It is a crutch built on the laziness and attractiveness of Thai provincial women, and is one of many reasons why currently certain provinces aren't developing (mind you this is an entirely different subject!).

Things will gradually upgrade, but for sure Thailand will never be Paris or New York and thank goodness for that. It has neither the weather, infrastructure, service mind nor a host of other things to do that; I am not aware of too many Thais that 'dream of cornering the high end of the tourist market', in fact I have yet to meet one. But there is the scenery to do it, and some operators manage just fine looking after celebrities and top spenders; so it can be done if certain people remove fingers from bottom and start looking after infrastructure, laws and order.

However, to do a bit better in each segment is what it is about, and I think the Thai beer bar is nice enough and here to stay; but let's try to develop a few other things a bit more imaginative than just that.

There are already quite a few upmarket venues and 5 star hotels in Thailand. When i feel the need i go to these sort of places and it is nice to have option.

However these places are generally stale and boring facades inhabited by people who are not real tourists but rather people who want to replicate how they live at home. In short they lack the sanuk factor.

Your thoughts on the bargirls and beer bar culture are interesting but I think misconcieved. There are a number of reasons why girls flock to these areas but the most notable would be lack of opportunity to get money elsewhere. There is very little fluidy between classes in Thailand and for those that are in the agricutlural sectors of thai socierty in most cases they have very limited option s for earning decent money. There is also an attitude from families that are happy to ignore where the money is coming from because it is not in their direct line of vision. (very thai i would have thought) These are societal and cultural issues that Thailand needs to address if it wants the situation to change.

I constantly hear how bgs squander money but that is not my experience. In fact i find that many are very tight fisted and do in fact send a fair proportion of their income to family. Of course there are wastrels and spendthrifts but these people exist at every level of society. There are plenty of examples in western countries as well.I am not really convinced by this argument and until some statistical evidence rather than anecdotal evidence emerges i will not be convinced.

If you looked very carefully at why tourists came to Thailand i think you would find that infrastructure and 5 star facilites is not on the list. People come because it is cheap and it is fun and it is hot and it is different and the food is good. Provide more infrastructure and five star venues and increase prices and you will find that tourists will look elsewhere.

[Samuian]

People come because it is cheap and it is fun and it is hot and it is different and the food is good. Provide more infrastructure and five star venues and increase prices and you will find that tourists will look elsewhere.

Really? The italian City of Venice is attracting 200.000 Tourists on a DAILY base!

France is the most popular international tourist destination in the world, receiving over 75 million foreign tourists annually, followed by Spain (53 million), the U.S.A. (46 million) and China (41 million)

Italy, specifically Venice is far from cheap, no "Beer Bars 'n Girls", no sun, sand, beach fun.

France is far from this either, except some very fine beaches, great landscapes, architecture and it's famous wines.

Spain has cought up with the rest of Euorpe, in the 70ties it was dirt cheap, but this has changed since, still these destinations including the U.S. attract a much larger Number of Touries than Thailand.

Why is that?

Because Infrastructure, Quality of Service, communications skills, environmental issues (piles of garbage on beaches) an around tourist spots!

Here in Thailand it doesn't equate (yet) with: "you get what you pay for"... but still Thailand will keep attracting visitors, if the "other go look elsewhere"...

There is a direct link Hongkong-Samui! Xiang and other chinese Cities are targeted. Japanese are long time visitors to Thailand, so are Koreans, Singaporeans - and they are certainly not all that fussy about environmental, infrastructural issues.

Just a thought or two.

Maybe someone missquoted this minister (I hope) and what he really meant was, controlling the Quantity of Hotels and "Touristdestinations" shooting up, and the Quality thereof.

Who would want to scrutinise the "Qualtity" of Tourists, coming to spend their money?

A Baht in the pocket, is a Baht in the pocket!

And as I can see here on Samui f.E. there is everything for everybody already, a boit of an chaotic mix, but it's all there already!

Guess this minister had to say something, and did it, like sooo many before him.

Anyone ever been on the weekend at Kao Yai National Park? There one could see who should be defenately controlled, but NOBODY is EVER going to do that!

Or on Ko Samet if there are school holidays in nearby Krung Thep Mahanakorn?

Here on Samui the kids then have exciting, motor bike races, racing randomly straigt into their own death.

If it happens that we have thai customers, I have regularily to send staff to the beach for a clean up, of elft behind styrofoam containers, plastic bags, plastic spoons 'n forks, bottles, (glass bottles sometimes smashed to pieces!!!) take away pizza cartons....cold drink containers..

Guess have to have "a word" with this minister, maybe a change of mind and policy is in order.

[Tolley]

People come because it is cheap and it is fun and it is hot and it is different and the food is good. Provide more infrastructure and five star venues and increase prices and you will find that tourists will look elsewhere.

Really? The italian City of Venice is attracting 200.000 Tourists on a DAILY base!

France is the most popular international tourist destination in the world, receiving over 75 million foreign tourists annually, followed by Spain (53 million), the U.S.A. (46 million) and China (41 million)

Italy, specifically Venice is far from cheap, no "Beer Bars 'n Girls", no sun, sand, beach fun.

France is far from this either, except some very fine beaches, great landscapes, architecture and it's famous wines.

Spain has cought up with the rest of Euorpe, in the 70ties it was dirt cheap, but this has changed since, still these destinations including the U.S. attract a much larger Number of Touries than Thailand.

Why is that?

Because Infrastructure, Quality of Service, communications skills, environmental issues (piles of garbage on beaches) an around tourist spots!

Here in Thailand it doesn't equate (yet) with: "you get what you pay for"... but still Thailand will keep attracting visitors, if the "other go look elsewhere"...

There is a direct link Hongkong-Samui! Xiang and other chinese Cities are targeted. Japanese are long time visitors to Thailand, so are Koreans, Singaporeans - and they are certainly not all that fussy about environmental, infrastructural issues.

Just a thought or two.

Maybe someone missquoted this minister (I hope) and what he really meant was, controlling the Quantity of Hotels and "Touristdestinations" shooting up, and the Quality thereof.

Who would want to scrutinise the "Qualtity" of Tourists, coming to spend their money?

A Baht in the pocket, is a Baht in the pocket!

And as I can see here on Samui f.E. there is everything for everybody already, a boit of an chaotic mix, but it's all there already!

Guess this minister had to say something, and did it, like sooo many before him.

Anyone ever been on the weekend at Kao Yai National Park? There one could see who should be defenately controlled, but NOBODY is EVER going to do that!

Or on Ko Samet if there are school holidays in nearby Krung Thep Mahanakorn?

Here on Samui the kids then have exciting, motor bike races, racing randomly straigt into their own death.

If it happens that we have thai customers, I have regularily to send staff to the beach for a clean up, of elft behind styrofoam containers, plastic bags, plastic spoons 'n forks, bottles, (glass bottles sometimes smashed to pieces!!!) take away pizza cartons....cold drink containers..

Guess have to have "a word" with this minister, maybe a change of mind and policy is in order.

Whistle away but I don't think you are disagreeing with me.....France Italy Venice etc are popular not just because they have five star hotels and good quality infrastructure. They have cultural attrractions that Thailand can never hope to match. They are also more ideally placed geograhically to pull in large numbers of well heeled tourists being on major European transport routes.

To compare Thailand to these major European tourist destinations is ludicrous.

Thailand has carved its own little niche market based on CHEAP prices , sunny weather,nice beaches, good food, shopping etc. If thailand was to drastically improve its infrastructure and amenities, quality of service it would become very expensive and then less likely to appeal to many visitors.

Thailand is no Venice Paris or Rome but it does have some very endearing qualities.

[Old Man River]

It seems to me that people are over reacting to Dr. Suvit's comments. Thailand does not want to close its borders to only those that can stay at 5 star hotels. Economically, they couldn't even if they wanted to, but they don't. What they want to do is change their global reputation as the place to visit for a cheap lay. It shames them and their children when they go abroad and have to listen to the way people talk about Thailand. It is the sex tours and predators that they wish to keep out.

[Tolley]

I don't want quality infrastructure when i come to Thailand.

...........I like the outdoor beer bars, the food on the street ,the wrong orders, the chaotic roads ,the mai pen rai attitude etc

That is part of the reason i love Thailand. Take it away and what have you really got.

We're not talking about expatriates staying here long-term; we're talking about tourists. I have no friends back home, with the dosh to spend in their middle or senior years, who want filthy streets, broken pathways, touts peddling sex VCD's and more, live wires dangling in their face, chaotic traffic, thieving tuktuk drivers, and waitstaff who can't take an order. They want to drink out of the tap, clean their fingers with actual napkins (not toilet tissue), have their tourist English understood, swim in unpolluted water, go to motels with water in the pool and toilets that flush.....

Tourists who like filth and disorder can go to lots of nearby countries, too. Besides, lost baggage is not a "mai bpen rai" event.

I was talking about tourists.

If your friends don't like this sort of stuff tell them to go elsewhere where they will pay a buckload more money for those things.

It all comes back to money really. If you want everything cleaned up well you will just have to start paying first world prices for the privilege.

Edited October 12, 2006 by Tolley

[ovenman]

However, to do a bit better in each segment is what it is about, and I think the Thai beer bar is nice enough and here to stay; but let's try to develop a few other things a bit more imaginative than just that.

I agree with you, the something for everybody approach is what's best. One of things that I have always thought was a strong point about Thailand's tourism potential is that there is something here for every budget. Perhaps such an all-inclusive approach is even what the powers-that-be are thinking, but it never comes across that way in published stories like these. These reports always read as "one (rich) segment targeted to the exclusion of everything else".

[Steph1012]

You get the tourists you deserve.

We all come here because it is what it is. Cheap, good fun, chaotic and you always feel you are abroad, not in some sterile 5 star hotel with a bunch of like minded non-smiling farangs. Go inside a big resort one day and look at just how little fun some people have when they come to Thailand.

Many 5 star customers slip the leash and end up partying and enjoying themselves for the first time in many years. Even rich people are looking for something differrent, and thats what Thailand has always been to me. Different and how

When Thailand is what high end tourists want, thats when they will flock here. Until you make it as they want it, you can whistle. So the talk will have to stop and the action (billions of Baht) will have to flow and in the meantime, they will have to get that money from somewhere. Thats called a REALITY CHECK and they will be getting one soon.

The point about the Beer Bars on the beach is totally invalid. It works because thats what people want. If you think there is something lacking, put your money where your mouth is and buy one and run it as you think fit. Again, people will come if thats what they want and if thats what they want, the beer bars would have withered on the vine years ago.

Its more optimistic jingoistic hot air.

[PanzerJohn]

Most people visit a holiday destintion once,I would imagine that Thailand has a higher proportion of repeat visitors than most.

[Samuian]

Whistle away but I don't think you are disagreeing with me.....France Italy Venice etc are popular not just because they have five star hotels and good quality infrastructure. They have cultural attrractions that Thailand can never hope to match. They are also more ideally placed geograhically to pull in large numbers of well heeled tourists being on major European transport routes.

To compare Thailand to these major European tourist destinations is ludicrous.

Thailand has carved its own little niche market based on CHEAP prices , sunny weather,nice beaches, good food, shopping etc. If thailand was to drastically improve its infrastructure and amenities, quality of service it would become very expensive and then less likely to appeal to many visitors.

Thailand is no Venice Paris or Rome but it does have some very endearing qualities.

O.K. I will, sure I am not disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreement!

It's just not true, that people will turn away because it's comes mor expensive, it's an introverted, personalised view!

Those who can't afford a higher cost of living or aren't willing to do so, they will trun away.

That the reason why I brought in the examples of Venice, France and Spain.

Thailand hasn't "carved" anything, it has been discovered and over the years developed into a tourist destination.

Samui only 20 years ago, there was no tourist infrastructure at all, still people started to flock because of ti's braethtaking beauty - this beauty has disappeared with a stunning pace - but people do keep coming....

And I really doubt: "They have cultural attrractions that Thailand can never hope to match." Thailand is quite rich in "cultural attrractions" or calll it cultural heritage, where it has to offer a lot, not just the Entertainment Scene... tyhat for sure.

I believe that this potpourrie, this rather interesting and colorful mix is what makes this country rahter appealing to quite a wide range of visitors from all walks of life.

But then, this is only my opinion.

[steveromagnino]

However, to do a bit better in each segment is what it is about, and I think the Thai beer bar is nice enough and here to stay; but let's try to develop a few other things a bit more imaginative than just that.

I agree with you, the something for everybody approach is what's best. One of things that I have always thought was a strong point about Thailand's tourism potential is that there is something here for every budget. Perhaps such an all-inclusive approach is even what the powers-that-be are thinking, but it never comes across that way in published stories like these. These reports always read as "one (rich) segment targeted to the exclusion of everything else".

:-)

Great point there Ovenman. I don't agree with some of the other points raised by others; it is clear Tolley has put some thought into this.

However, it is easy to assume 'everyone is like ourselves' and likes the things we like. Takes a bit more wisdom to look at it from something for every budget, even budgets far beyond or below our own.

Every piece of research I have done about tourists in the area I operate in, and the same points come out again and again; fix the pavement, have decent signage, get rid of touts, introduce easier ways to walk from place to place and so on. An example of one of the things coming out of that are the bridge links joining various areas to the skytrain. This is an example of infrastructure, and it is not expensive.

I don't think Thailand will ever be on par with Europe for certain aspects and I don't think it needs to be. However, there are certain basic items needed for getting around, and even something as simple as level non potholed pavements with bi lingual signage is something that Thailand needs. By providing this, I doubt that too many tourists would be annoyed or their satisfaction reduced. And the money for this would simply be available if they stopped advertising and subsidising with a mindset we need 20million tourists when even basic things like water supply and power supply cannot cope with such a number yet.

Some level of chaos in certain areas means the people that like that get it. many others come to Thailand for great beaches, warm weather, cheap Asian fashion and all other manner of reasons. The future of Thai tourism is not a white skinned one, so I don't think Europe is the primary competitor because the benefits of most Europe holidays are rather different.

But anyway, get the basics right and everyone wins. So I like the idea to provide a quality experience to quality people, rather than convincing every single person possible to come here and then not be able to look after them properly.

[atlastaname]

It seems to me that people are over reacting to Dr. Suvit's comments. Thailand does not want to close its borders to only those that can stay at 5 star hotels. Economically, they couldn't even if they wanted to, but they don't. What they want to do is change their global reputation as the place to visit for a cheap lay. It shames them and their children when they go abroad and have to listen to the way people talk about Thailand. It is the sex tours and predators that they wish to keep out.

Why?? The sex tours and predators spend lots of money the same as everyone else. I would have thought they should attract them AND everyone else. It can be done if carefully thought out.

[LaoPo]

Thailand Riviera

They want quality tourists?

Good; that would mean they will allow quality tourists to buy and own land and villas? WOW!

Dr. Suvit probably knows that quality people can own land and villas on the Riviera in France; at a matter of facts ALL foreigners (including Thai) can buy and own land and villas in all of Europe.

Thailand Riviera.......Quality Tourists.......don't make me laugh.

Let me tell Dr Suvit that the REAL Quality Tourists KNOW where to go and that's NOT Thailand I can assure you.

Why?

Because, apart from a few 4* and 5* Hotels and resorts, Thailand has very little to offer in comparison to the real 'Rivieras' of Europe.

The 'Rich and Famous Quality Tourists' want to show-off their Ferraris, Porches, Lamborghini's, Bentley's, enormous Estates, Yachts, Helicopters, private planes and...............................their beautiful Ladies

There is no such area in Thailand.............by far.

But, I suppose Dr. Suvit wanted to impress his collegues in the government a bit with his 'new' ideas.

Thailand will be the same for years to come, as far as tourism is concerned.

LaoPo

[Thaddeus]

Most people visit a holiday destintion once,I would imagine that Thailand has a higher proportion of repeat visitors than most.

Indeed...... but probably not Mr & Mrs Quality Tourist (unless, as someone mentioned earlier they manage to slip the leash and experience life outside health spa..... and enjoy it.

I used to take great delight in ordering a starter and a main course and then having them in the wrong order or simultaneously.

I revelled in the errors in communication as long as nobody got hurt.

I doubt that Mr & Mrs Quality Tourist could handle that twice.

[britmaveric]

Love thailand for what it is.... don't need another Singapore.

[Steph1012]

It seems to me that people are over reacting to Dr. Suvit's comments. Thailand does not want to close its borders to only those that can stay at 5 star hotels. Economically, they couldn't even if they wanted to, but they don't. What they want to do is change their global reputation as the place to visit for a cheap lay. It shames them and their children when they go abroad and have to listen to the way people talk about Thailand. It is the sex tours and predators that they wish to keep out.

Why?? The sex tours and predators spend lots of money the same as everyone else. I would have thought they should attract them AND everyone else. It can be done if carefully thought out.

They do. Many spend vast sums then go home.... and then send vast monthly sums!! And many of them are very wealthy, at least they are when they arrive And that makes them even more attractive doesn't it? So it's not likely to stop girls making a play for them, quite the reverse.

Should be happy they have cornered a market here and not get too fussy. The one area where they are a world wide hub and they are going to kill it. Its not the sex trade thats the problem, its that face thing again. They (the sex tourists) should have got on with it and not gone home bragging about it.

There was the tale of the freezing sparrow.

Fell off the tree and into a fresh cow pat.

The warmth save its life so it started singing.

A cat heard it, took it out and ate it!

Morals, being in the shit is ok for some folk. somebody getting you out of the shit is not necessarily a freind. If you are happy in the shit, enjoy it and keep quiet about it.

Edited October 12, 2006 by Steph1012

[Toni]

New immigration requirements:

Jeans & T shirts this line, suits and ties this line !

Reminds me of Singapore a loooong time ago: arriving at the airport one was confronted with a big bill-board showing a person, hippy-dressed with long hair crossed-out with a big cross and a person neatly dressed with an “accepted” sign. The long-haired people had the choice: at the airport to the hairdresser or returning home.

[LaoPo]

New immigration requirements:

Jeans & T shirts this line, suits and ties this line !

Reminds me of Singapore a loooong time ago: arriving at the airport one was confronted with a big bill-board showing a person, hippy-dressed with long hair crossed-out with a big cross and a person neatly dressed with an “accepted” sign. The long-haired people had the choice: at the airport to the hairdresser or returning home.

Really? I've never seen that or knew about those signs.

Discrimination at its 'best'

LaoPo

[sabaijai]

What the heck is the "Riviera" program? Only heard of Longstay and Thai Elite.

I googled it and it turns out to be a biodome somewhere

Cheers!

I've seen the plans for the Thai Riviera at the Ministry of Tourism, where they have several large portfolios filled with colour sketches and brief Thai text. Basically they want to line the entire Gulf coastline from Phetchaburi to Chumphon with five-star beach resorts and yacht marinas. Very much like the French & Italian Riviera, in concept. No provision for natural conservation, as far as I could tell from reading the accompanying text and from perusing the sketches. When I asked whether they might want to leave some bits of the coast undeveloped, they said why should they, seeing how the French and Italians don't preserve their coastlines?

[LaoPo]

What the heck is the "Riviera" program? Only heard of Longstay and Thai Elite.

I googled it and it turns out to be a biodome somewhere

Cheers!

I've seen the plans for the Thai Riviera at the Ministry of Tourism, where they have several large portfolios filled with colour sketches and brief Thai text. Basically they want to line the entire Gulf coastline from Phetchaburi to Chumphon with five-star beach resorts and yacht marinas. Very much like the French & Italian Riviera, in concept. No provision for natural conservation, as far as I could tell from reading the accompanying text and from perusing the sketches. When I asked whether they might want to leave some bits of the coast undeveloped, they said why don't the French and Italians preserve their coastlines?

Hmmmmm.....I suppose they didn't make those plans overnight....so maybe still an old plan from the ex-Thaksin government guys.

Wonder who owns all the land....

LaoPo

[bkkandrew]

Being a cynic, I would wonder if this is connected to the effect of the new Visa rules..

Let me explain.

If they are successful with their masterplan of removing the visa-runners from the counrty, then this wil affect the tourist numbers significantly, as each visa run is actually counted as a separate tourist visit. Taking into account 60 & 90 day visas, this probably equates to a single long-stay resident showing up as 5-6 tourists in the official numbers. Other, multiple entry visitors may have to cut back visits to conform to the new rules.

Maybe, just maybe, someone is attempting an advance saving of face by announcing a quality, rather than quantity preference. Come Christmas, they can then say they have succeeded!

[Axel]

Reminds me of Singapore a loooong time ago: arriving at the airport one was confronted with a big bill-board showing a person, hippy-dressed with long hair crossed-out with a big cross and a person neatly dressed with an “accepted” sign. The long-haired people had the choice: at the airport to the hairdresser or returning home.

Yeah, can confirm that, but did not want to mention for age treasons, I mean I am .... years old.

Anyway, in those days one could get a free haircut.

[Jersey_UK]

The concept of going for "quality" over "quantity" is a well trodden path............that doesn't work for a town, let alone a country! The "trick is to CATER for both. Rich people like sitting on the beach eating an icecream as well! and don't want to sit in a Spa resort having (giving?!) a facial 24/7.

Maybe in this case it is also a cultural thing?? where it seems strange that folk with a few quid not wanting to be solely surrounded 24/7 by people in their same "class" and instead being happy to mix with the Bucket and Spade Brigade. Apart from for Dinner........of course!

Going solely for the big spenders just ends up making somewhere uncompetitive for ALL, as folk with money are not all stupid. Paying 100B for a 10B experiance doesn't make something magically "Better".

[Samuian]

Let's face it, they are simple pipe dreams!

The rich spenders are already here, but it's a trickle compared to the average tourist.

There is the Amanpuri on Poocat, the 'le Meridian' on Samui, the Oriental in the Devils golden Oyster, the Dara Dhevi in Xiang Mai, name 'em.

But those who really have money to burn will not flock to Thailand en' masse.

Think of Bora, Bora, Hayman Island, the Carabians, the european Rivieras... Thailand has a looooong way to go.. pipe dreams.

Tohowabohoo as usual, nothing else!

Edited October 13, 2006 by Samuian

[Old Man River]

It seems to me that people are over reacting to Dr. Suvit's comments. Thailand does not want to close its borders to only those that can stay at 5 star hotels. Economically, they couldn't even if they wanted to, but they don't. What they want to do is change their global reputation as the place to visit for a cheap lay. It shames them and their children when they go abroad and have to listen to the way people talk about Thailand. It is the sex tours and predators that they wish to keep out.

Why?? The sex tours and predators spend lots of money the same as everyone else. I would have thought they should attract them AND everyone else. It can be done if carefully thought out.

Since I don't know you, I don't know if you are being serious or not. If you are serious, then I don't want to know you.

[pap]

Love thailand for what it is.... don't need another Singapore.

On occassion you are right on.

[pap]

I don't want quality infrastructure when i come to Thailand.

...........I like the outdoor beer bars, the food on the street ,the wrong orders, the chaotic roads ,the mai pen rai attitude etc

That is part of the reason i love Thailand. Take it away and what have you really got.

We're not talking about expatriates staying here long-term; we're talking about tourists. I have no friends back home, with the dosh to spend in their middle or senior years, who want filthy streets, broken pathways, touts peddling sex VCD's and more, live wires dangling in their face, chaotic traffic, thieving tuktuk drivers, and waitstaff who can't take an order. They want to drink out of the tap, clean their fingers with actual napkins (not toilet tissue), have their tourist English understood, swim in unpolluted water, go to motels with water in the pool and toilets that flush.....

Tourists who like filth and disorder can go to lots of nearby countries, too. Besides, lost baggage is not a "mai bpen rai" event.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. If you are only seeing " filthy streets, broken pathways, touts peddling sex VCD's and more, live wires dangling in their face, chaotic traffic, thieving tuktuk drivers, and waitstaff who can't take an order" Than maybe you do not see the same things I see. Or maybe youre having a bad day. I do see these things but there is so much more. You didn't list many of the good things or any of the fun. If that was all I see I would say Thailand was doomed. I don't beleive that. You did not list the numerous wonderful things about Thailand. The Chaos is part of its charm and adventure. That doesn't mean they couldn't work on alot of things. I would not be sad to see the pollution go, the standard of living rise or a number of other things but I do not for a minute wish my ways upon the Thais. If it was the same as here I would have no need to travel. Granted there is lots of room for improvement but be careful what you wish for. Policies have ways of developing a life of their own. The one thing out of everything that would get them the most out of their investment would be to clean up the pollution. As it gets worse the exact kind of people who they say they are trying to attract will be put off and will stop coming.

[Old Man River]

It seems to me that people are over reacting to Dr. Suvit's comments. Thailand does not want to close its borders to only those that can stay at 5 star hotels. Economically, they couldn't even if they wanted to, but they don't. What they want to do is change their global reputation as the place to visit for a cheap lay. It shames them and their children when they go abroad and have to listen to the way people talk about Thailand. It is the sex tours and predators that they wish to keep out.

Why?? The sex tours and predators spend lots of money the same as everyone else. I would have thought they should attract them AND everyone else. It can be done if carefully thought out.

Its not the sex trade thats the problem, its that face thing again. They (the sex tourists) should have got on with it and not gone home bragging about it.

And the predators? Do you really think we want the pediphiles as has been suggested?

On sex tours, I agree, they always do go home and brag about it. Hence, if you can't shut these people up and don't want the reputation the country has abroad, what would you do? If you had a Thai daughter who goes abroad to be educated and calls home crying because someone said most Thai girls are prostitutes, how would you feel? Sadly, this happens far too often.

[pap]

It seems to me that people are over reacting to Dr. Suvit's comments. Thailand does not want to close its borders to only those that can stay at 5 star hotels. Economically, they couldn't even if they wanted to, but they don't. What they want to do is change their global reputation as the place to visit for a cheap lay. It shames them and their children when they go abroad and have to listen to the way people talk about Thailand. It is the sex tours and predators that they wish to keep out.

Why?? The sex tours and predators spend lots of money the same as everyone else. I would have thought they should attract them AND everyone else. It can be done if carefully thought out.

Its not the sex trade thats the problem, its that face thing again. They (the sex tourists) should have got on with it and not gone home bragging about it.

And the predators? Do you really think we want the pediphiles as has been suggested?

On sex tours, I agree, they always do go home and brag about it. Hence, if you can't shut these people up and don't want the reputation the country has abroad, what would you do? If you had a Thai daughter who goes abroad to be educated and calls home crying because someone said most Thai girls are prostitutes, how would you feel? Sadly, this happens far too often.

Reputations are an easy thing to destroy. They are sadly, not so easy to fix. The problem is poverty in certain regions...not prostitution as I am sure you know. Prostitution is a symptom of the problem. Simply attempting a change to the type of tourist you draw is treating a symptom and a rather poor attempt. Without fixing poverty you can not reduce the symptom. You can never remove this symptom because this will always exist in some form. There is no country on earth that this does not occur. Even comparatively Affluent societies, such as Holland, which does not suffer comparatively from poverty, still have this. If this is part of a series of measures it can have some effect but if you don't fix the problem it can never go away. This is not something laws can fix or the type of tourist you draw can fix unless you can make poverty illegal. Great goal. I hope they can get there.