jamman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 (edited) Now if I were not clear and 100% up front about what I would do if there were pregnancy, and if the birth control pill was not the mutually agreed upon method of birth control, then perhaps I'd be more responsible for a child conceived her secretly not taking the pill. The pill is for people having a long term relationship, she takes or does not is not the point, the child is as much your responsability as it is hers. If you do not want to have a child, take your responsability, put a condom or do not f...k but well, if you do, do not blame the girl... The OP talked about the man and women deciding that the method of birth control was to be the pill. The woman deliberately misled the man. In my posts the scenario was the same. You have avoided or ignored this part of the scenario. As if it makes no difference that the man made his choice not to have a child, that the mutual method of birth control was given to the woman, and the woman alone took it upon herself to conceive, against the wishes of the man. It seems you want to ignore this aspect of the OPs post. I hear you saying as far as responsibility is concerned, there is no scenario conceivable in which conception is not 50% the mans responsibility. Edited October 16, 2006 by jamman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 It seems you want to ignore this aspect of the OPs post. I hear you saying as far as responsibility is concerned, there is no scenario conceivable in which conception is not 50% the mans responsibility. I did not, when taking the pill, it is 100% the woman's responsability. And if you're happy with that, you should be ready to bear the consequences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 It seems you want to ignore this aspect of the OPs post. I hear you saying as far as responsibility is concerned, there is no scenario conceivable in which conception is not 50% the mans responsibility. I did not, when taking the pill, it is 100% the woman's responsability. And if you're happy with that, you should be ready to bear the consequences I don't understand what you mean by the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Yes, I can get snipped, but the fact that I have that option does not make any conception 50% my responsibility, when a conception can be prevented or aborted in other ways, and when these ways are chosen to be avoided by the woman. whenever you make the decision to have sex, you are taking a risk. you are 50% responsible for the outcome. i agree that if the woman makes an agreement with you to take the pill, she takes on more of the responsibility. however the pill is not totally effective and if she happens to get pregnant accidentally i think the responsibility shifts back to 50-50 and you would have to work it out together. otherwise, since there is an agreement, the woman should have to take care of the kid. (poor kid either way!) however, the burden should not always be on the woman. you could just as easily wear condoms, get a vasectomy, or abstain from sex if you want to be protected. if your wife wants kids and you don't, i would think it would be up to you to take on the burden of preventing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 It seems you want to ignore this aspect of the OPs post. I hear you saying as far as responsibility is concerned, there is no scenario conceivable in which conception is not 50% the mans responsibility. I did not, when taking the pill, it is 100% the woman's responsability. And if you're happy with that, you should be ready to bear the consequences I don't understand what you mean by the above. Well, so bear the consequences... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 (edited) however, the burden should not always be on the woman. you could just as easily wear condoms, get a vasectomy, or abstain from sex if you want to be protected. My point, exactly... Edited October 16, 2006 by Unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevespiral Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 do her up the batty..... problem solved... bet she didn't see that cummin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Yes, I can get snipped, but the fact that I have that option does not make any conception 50% my responsibility, when a conception can be prevented or aborted in other ways, and when these ways are chosen to be avoided by the woman. whenever you make the decision to have sex, you are taking a risk. you are 50% responsible for the outcome. i agree that if the woman makes an agreement with you to take the pill, she takes on more of the responsibility. however the pill is not totally effective and if she happens to get pregnant accidentally i think the responsibility shifts back to 50-50 and you would have to work it out together. otherwise, since there is an agreement, the woman should have to take care of the kid. (poor kid either way!) however, the burden should not always be on the woman. you could just as easily wear condoms, get a vasectomy, or abstain from sex if you want to be protected. if your wife wants kids and you don't, i would think it would be up to you to take on the burden of preventing them. You also have not addressed the sitiation that the OP and I faced - where it was clear and admitted that the woman took it upon herself to deceive the man that she was taking the pill, and where the two of them had verbally agreed that the method of birth control was to be the pill. I agree with you that if the pill failed, at this point the man would share equal responsibility, IF then abortifactant was not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 and where the two of them had verbally agreed that the method of birth control was to be the pill. Sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 (edited) ...if she happens to get pregnant accidentally i think the responsibility shifts back to 50-50 and you would have to work it out together. otherwise, since there is an agreement, the woman should have to take care of the kid. (poor kid either way!) You touch on a deep issue, that if the man does not want to be a father, he may make a poor one. I don't know why a woman would want to entrap an unwilling man into being a (possibly) poor father. I know from first hand experience that a person can not choose what to want. I used to pray every day to accept being a family man, to want to be married, to want to have a child. It was beyond my will and my prayers to change what I wanted. I did not want it. A father should want it, and a woman can't force these things. Edited October 16, 2006 by jamman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I don't know why a woman would want to entrap an unwilling man into being a (possibly) poor father. In a nutshell, men want sex for sex, women want sex for children. What is an unwilling man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Burr Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 In a nutshell, men want sex for sex, women want sex for children.What is an unwilling man? This statement is so patently untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 In a nutshell, men want sex for sex, women want sex for children. What is an unwilling man? This statement is so patently untrue. I did not mean it as being a statement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 (edited) Edited October 16, 2006 by jamman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 In a nutshell, men want sex for sex, women want sex for children. What is an unwilling man? This statement is so patently untrue. Yes, but you wouldn't want facts to get in the way of a gut feeling of rightness. Better to muster all possible arguments that support the gut feeling, and deny and fight all that don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 What facts? I did not see any so far. And I sure have no gut feeling of rightness or wrongness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 In a nutshell, men want sex for sex, women want sex for children. What is an unwilling man? This statement is so patently untrue. I read this earlier..... ran it past the wife...... confirmed, not true Looking forward to a good breakfast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_mack Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Why leave the decision to your girlfriend.I’ve heard there’s a male contraceptive now. It's a large Pill. You put it in your shoe. It makes you limp. Patrick THATS A VERY OLD JOKE [ AND A LIMP ONE, ha ha] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguegirl Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 (edited) Contraceptive pills are not 100% effective. And it is not very healthy for women to take it. In certain cases, the pills either make them underweight or overweight. Even condoms are not perfectly 100% effective either. To put the responsibility of contraception on a woman alone is selfish. In some cases, the woman might agree because she doesn't seem to have other choice available and the man is her chance for a better life. In other words, it is an unconsentual agreement. It's like... die if I do, die if I don't. And what if the woman accidently get pregnant and she does not believe in abortion? Mind you, not every woman agrees with abortion. And just because a clump of blood still hasn't develop a piece of grey matter called brain doesn't mean it is not life. Edited October 18, 2006 by roguegirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumourz Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Contraceptive pills are not 100% effective. And it is not very healthy for women to take it. In certain cases, the pills either make them underweight or overweight. Even condoms are not perfectly 100% effective either.To put the responsibility of contraception on a woman alone is selfish. In some cases, the woman might agree because she doesn't seem to have other choice available and the man is her chance for a better life. In other words, it is an unconsentual agreement. It's like... die if I do, die if I don't. And what if the woman accidently get pregnant and she does not believe in abortion? Mind you, not every woman agrees with abortion. And just because a clump of blood still hasn't develop a piece of grey matter called brain doesn't mean it is not life. Well said, Roguegirl! the whole idea of abortion is sickening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamman Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 (edited) Contraceptive pills are not 100% effective. And it is not very healthy for women to take it. In certain cases, the pills either make them underweight or overweight. Even condoms are not perfectly 100% effective either.To put the responsibility of contraception on a woman alone is selfish. In some cases, the woman might agree because she doesn't seem to have other choice available and the man is her chance for a better life. In other words, it is an unconsentual agreement. It's like... die if I do, die if I don't. And what if the woman accidently get pregnant and she does not believe in abortion? Mind you, not every woman agrees with abortion. And just because a clump of blood still hasn't develop a piece of grey matter called brain doesn't mean it is not life. I agree with you that the responsibility for contraception and what methods are acceptable has to be worked out between both partners, and should not automatically fall upon the woman. It seems that you have no comments about the other topic of discussion, relating more to the OPs predicament of being under the impression that responsible birth control was alread agreed on, while the woman considered it her "right" to have a baby as long as the man was physically capable of it, regardless of his consent. It may be her right, but without his consent, she may be unreasonable to expect to get a father along with a baby. Edited October 18, 2006 by jamman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguegirl Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Contraceptive pills are not 100% effective. And it is not very healthy for women to take it. In certain cases, the pills either make them underweight or overweight. Even condoms are not perfectly 100% effective either. To put the responsibility of contraception on a woman alone is selfish. In some cases, the woman might agree because she doesn't seem to have other choice available and the man is her chance for a better life. In other words, it is an unconsentual agreement. It's like... die if I do, die if I don't. And what if the woman accidently get pregnant and she does not believe in abortion? Mind you, not every woman agrees with abortion. And just because a clump of blood still hasn't develop a piece of grey matter called brain doesn't mean it is not life. I agree with you that the responsibility for contraception and what methods are acceptable has to be worked out between both partners, and should not automatically fall upon the woman. It seems that you have no comments about the other topic of discussion, relating more to the OPs predicament of being under the impression that responsible birth control was alread agreed on, while the woman considered it her "right" to have a baby as long as the man was physically capable of it, regardless of his consent. It may be her right, but without his consent, she may be unreasonable to expect to get a father along with a baby. On that score, jamman, if the man feels that he is being "cheated" or found out that he is about to be tricked, he has the choice to leave the woman! Or, as many had suggested, get a vasectomy! Hey...! YOu can do it cheap with a pair of scissors too! Why stay on? Aren't there any other woman who is more trustworthy in the whole of Thailand (since you guys like Thai women, so to speak)? If I know my man is up to something, I wouldn't stay and allow myself to be cheated when there was already an agreement. Geez! Which brain is he thinking with? The juicy one coming out from his d!ck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodypaul Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I agree with you that the responsibility for contraception and what methods are acceptable has to be worked out between both partners, and should not automatically fall upon the woman. Well the reason why it is more the woman's responsibility is that the consequences of pregnancy affect the women more than men. They give birth. And generally they will look after the kid/kids until they become adult. An irresponsible man can just disappear and not give a <deleted>! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donz Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I agree with you that the responsibility for contraception and what methods are acceptable has to be worked out between both partners, and should not automatically fall upon the woman. Well the reason why it is more the woman's responsibility is that the consequences of pregnancy affect the women more than men. They give birth. And generally they will look after the kid/kids until they become adult. An irresponsible man can just disappear and not give a <deleted>! I agree with that 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The troll OP lasted just 6 days with Thaivisa before banned..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jing jing Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Some folks just weren't cut out to be parents... problem is, those folks don't always know who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barcadi Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 It's quite true sometime that thai girl have an idea to get pregnant with farang boyfriend just to make secure for love relationship and also for their financial - as your guys know that they all think they're lucky to have farang boyfriend or husband because they thought your guys can support their financial and family! On the other hand, the thai lady that I mentioned above doesn't mean all thai girl! It depends on where you meet your girlfriend - if at the bar, of course all the story above can be true at least 80% but if normal thai lady who doesn't think that farange are the ATM machine for them - they not gonna be stupid to pregnant before marry or even before have agree and make decision for both that ready to have baby! Real love relationship here in thailand quite the same as other part of the world - so look at your relationship, look at your girl and also look at yourself.... how's true of your love! Then the paradise will come to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguegirl Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 (edited) I agree with you that the responsibility for contraception and what methods are acceptable has to be worked out between both partners, and should not automatically fall upon the woman. Well the reason why it is more the woman's responsibility is that the consequences of pregnancy affect the women more than men. They give birth. And generally they will look after the kid/kids until they become adult. An irresponsible man can just disappear and not give a <deleted>! I agree with that 100% And men are only responsible for their own pleasure. Edited October 19, 2006 by roguegirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mraitchison Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 A friend of mine just had a child. He doesn;t want her. Never has. However it's his own fault. At one point he was all loved up with his ex gf and she said she wanted a baby so he told her to stop taking the pill. As things went on he as usual statred playing around and booted her out. However he carried on boming her at weeekends. At some point during this she stopped taking the pill and got pregant. He told her to get an abortion she said no she will take care of it. He insisted that she stay back from work and take care of the child then. He accepted resonsibility for the babies well being. It's not being shipped off ta mud hut in the north to stay with her family 3 months in she turns around and says she wants to go back to wokr. Total change of plan. THis wonderful baby that she wanted hasn;'t get him at home and made him a good husband/bf/partner and it's not as much fun having a kid as she thought. So she moved out and went back to work, he pays for a maid. They are both as bad as each other. I do get annoyed with him when he talks badly about the things she has done. It's equally his fault as well. If your partner has taken responsibility for taking the pill and secretly stops to get pregnant cheating you into having a child you have every right to walk away. (if you can) If it's because both of you behaved like fools then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donz Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 A friend of mine just had a child.He doesn;t want her. Never has. However it's his own fault. At one point he was all loved up with his ex gf and she said she wanted a baby so he told her to stop taking the pill. As things went on he as usual statred playing around and booted her out. However he carried on boming her at weeekends. At some point during this she stopped taking the pill and got pregant. He told her to get an abortion she said no she will take care of it. He insisted that she stay back from work and take care of the child then. He accepted resonsibility for the babies well being. It's not being shipped off ta mud hut in the north to stay with her family 3 months in she turns around and says she wants to go back to wokr. Total change of plan. THis wonderful baby that she wanted hasn;'t get him at home and made him a good husband/bf/partner and it's not as much fun having a kid as she thought. So she moved out and went back to work, he pays for a maid. They are both as bad as each other. I do get annoyed with him when he talks badly about the things she has done. It's equally his fault as well. If your partner has taken responsibility for taking the pill and secretly stops to get pregnant cheating you into having a child you have every right to walk away. (if you can) If it's because both of you behaved like fools then so be it. What about the kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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