Bread making fundamentals

[CLW]

To be super correct, according to the German regulations for bakery products, any product labeled as Bread must contain at least 90 parts (before water) flour or flour products.
Try that with the Thai bread 555

[U235]

19 hours ago, Tarteso said:

Try to make our "your Falang cake" with double of sugar for them ! It Work for me
 

 

Strange enough, my family often complains that my food is too sweet. The birthday cake was a good example.

 

16 hours ago, CLW said:

For cake, you could try angel or chiffon cake recipes. They have a very light and fluffy texture.
Any cheesecake was also liked.
Especially fluffy Japanese cheesecake (sure, everything from Japan or Korea is popular here 555)
 

 

Thanks, I will give the angel cake a try, but it will have to wait a bit 'cause I will need to buy cream of tartar first in the Big City.

 

Bread isn't a big problem: they eat only my hamburger buns and they passed the test. 

 

That Thangzong thing sounds curious. Right now, I'm waiting till the 'biga' for a batch of Ciabata is ready. Will mix a bit of that roux in one loaf; let see what it gives. Found an article on the www from a guy who claims it improves it a lot, however 'soft dough Japanese style' and 'crispy Italian style' looks a bit like a controversy to me. Wait and see...

 

[CLW]

Multi-grain bagels

[billd766]

On 02/12/2016 at 11:23 PM, billd766 said:

 

The bread improver that Makro sells is called KS 505 and is generally close to the yeast and flour shelves.

 

I use it every time I make bread and rolls and it does a good job.

 

I bought some KS 505 at Makro this week at 126 baht/kg.

[CLW]

My new workhorse in the kitchen, Kenwood Chef
Second hand import, brought to here from my parents.
Ploughing through the dough like it's warm butter...
I love it... And baking

[billd766]

46 minutes ago, CLW said:

My new workhorse in the kitchen, Kenwood Chef
Second hand import, brought to here from my parents.
Ploughing through the dough like it's warm butter...
I love it... And baking

 

I bought my stand mixer at Macro for about 6,000 baht.

 

Like you I love it and it makes bread making so much easier.

 

 

[KittenKong]

On 27/05/2017 at 9:47 PM, billd766 said:

I bought my stand mixer at Macro for about 6,000 baht.

 

Does it have a proper dough hook?

[billd766]

5 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Does it have a proper dough hook?

 

Yes plus a normal mixer and a whisk.

I have never used the whisk but I make bread about once a week using the other 2 and the dough hook beats the crap out of kneading by hand.

Edited May 29, 2017 by billd766
added some files

[vogie]

On 2017-5-27 at 9:47 PM, billd766 said:

 

I bought my stand mixer at Macro for about 6,000 baht.

 

Like you I love it and it makes bread making so much easier.

 

 

Copy cat ?. Makes life so easy.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Copy cat ?. Makes life so easy.

And the results.

[billd766]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

And the results.

 

My bread comes out great but I can't get the buns to come out that shape.

 

What do you use on the dough before baking to be able to do that?

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

My bread comes out great but I can't get the buns to come out that shape.

 

What do you use on the dough before baking to be able to do that?

I don't use anything Bill, just roll them into a ball and squash them flatish. I use 2 cups of water, 5 or 6 cups of flour, 4 tablespoons of sugar, 2 teaspoon of salt and about a quarter of a cup of sunflower oil. Cook for about 18 minutes and put under the grill for a couple of minutes to make the top go brown.

Having said that yours look ok to me, is the last photo ciabatta bread?

Edited May 29, 2017 by vogie

[billd766]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I don't use anything Bill, just roll them into a ball and squash them flatish. I use 2 cups of water, 5 or 6 cups of flour, 4 tablespoons of sugar, 2 teaspoon of salt and about a quarter of a cup of sunflower oil. Cook for about 18 minutes and put under the grill for a couple of minutes to make the top go brown.

 

Aha.

 

I just remembered that I downloaded your recipe in January.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/messenger/469827/#comment-906664

 

 

I really must try it this week or next.

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Aha.

 

I just remembered that I downloaded your recipe in January.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/messenger/469827/#comment-906664

 

 

I really must try it this week or next.

Forgot to mention the 4 teaspoon yeast.

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

Yes plus a normal mixer and a whisk.

I have never used the whisk but I make bread about once a week using the other 2 and the dough hook beats the crap out of kneading by hand.

 

Seems quite similar to the ones sold by Amazon UK for about 4000B, so the price markup here is what one might expect. I've been thinking of buying one with a dough hook on my next UK trip but they are a bit heavy and cumbersome for packing, so I may just get one of those here.

 

Currently I use a 2000B twin-spiral stand mixer that works OK but the spirals dont stretch the dough properly as a dough hook does.

[CLW]

 

Seems quite similar to the ones sold by Amazon UK for about 4000B, so the price markup here is what one might expect. I've been thinking of buying one with a dough hook on my next UK trip but they are a bit heavy and cumbersome for packing, so I may just get one of those here.

 

Currently I use a 2000B twin-spiral stand mixer that works OK but the spirals dont stretch the dough properly as a dough hook does.

Exactly my case. Previous I used a stand mixer with rotating bowl.

Despite being a brand name model it is not designed for kneading strong bread doughs. The bearings (from plastic...) are worn out already.

But it's still my preferred tool for cake etc.

But for bread, only with the Kenwood now.

Have this in the making right now:

https://www.ploetzblog.de/2013/04/27/leserwunsch-rustikales-bauernbrot/

 

 

[billd766]

6 hours ago, CLW said:

Exactly my case. Previous I used a stand mixer with rotating bowl.

Despite being a brand name model it is not designed for kneading strong bread doughs. The bearings (from plastic...) are worn out already.

But it's still my preferred tool for cake etc.

But for bread, only with the Kenwood now.

Have this in the making right now:

https://www.ploetzblog.de/2013/04/27/leserwunsch-rustikales-bauernbrot/

 

 

 

It is OK if you can get the right flour and you also have a sourdough starter running.

 

My problem is to get flour like that I either have to order it online about 10kg a time and also run sourdough.

 

I have an ebook on that and I also converted the book into a pdf format without the pictures  but from what I could see sourdough is a PITA unless you use it all the time.

[CLW]

 
It is OK if you can get the right flour and you also have a sourdough starter running.
 
My problem is to get flour like that I either have to order it online about 10kg a time and also run sourdough.
 
I have an ebook on that and I also converted the book into a pdf format without the pictures  but from what I could see sourdough is a PITA unless you use it all the time.

I use dried sourdough extract. Yeah, I know it's​ not the real one. But at least it gives some flavour. The contribution the rising the loaf is zero, that comes all from the yeast.
Right now I still use some powder my parents brought here but you can get that from Schmidt's bakery wholesales.
They sell it in 1kg plastic bags for an affordable price. It lasts a long time

[billd766]

18 minutes ago, CLW said:

I use dried sourdough extract. Yeah, I know it's not the real one. But at least it gives some flavour. The contribution the rising the loaf is zero, that comes all from the yeast.
Right now I still use some powder my parents brought here but you can get that from Schmidt's bakery wholesales.
They sell it in 1kg plastic bags for an affordable price. It lasts a long time

 

I looked at Schmidts earlier this year and chose about 4 types of flour, 5kg of each then asked for a quote. The cheapest was 70 baht/kg and the most expensive was over 330 baht/kg. I pointed out that I was trying to start a small business (I wasn't) and that I would have to sell my loaves at about 250 baht to show any profit and when I told my prospective (non) customers they said that they would not be interested at that price.

[CLW]

 
I looked at Schmidts earlier this year and chose about 4 types of flour, 5kg of each then asked for a quote. The cheapest was 70 baht/kg and the most expensive was over 330 baht/kg. I pointed out that I was trying to start a small business (I wasn't) and that I would have to sell my loaves at about 250 baht to show any profit and when I told my prospective (non) customers they said that they would not be interested at that price.

70 Baht is indeed expensive. Was it imported product? I buy my bread flour for 35 Baht per kilo bag. Can't recall exactly the price for the sourdough extract, but it wasn't expensive. It's called Fertigsauer from Ireks. They have a pretty good website with instructions how to use their products

[KittenKong]

It may not be convenient for everyone, and they dont always have it, but Tops in the basement of Central in Pattaya do usually carry imported UK strong bread flour (and wholemeal), and occasionally stoneground and/or organic versions of the same. Prices are from around 120B for 1.5kg to around 175B for the same size, with occasional decent promos for One Card holders.

 

I find that the gold coloured bread flour from Makro at 35B/kg does develop a decent flavour if you let it prove for 24 hours. So I just mix it today for baking tomorrow.

[CLW]

For regular flour I don't buy imported stuff. It's likely the same and yields​ good results. Sometimes I buy specialty flour but anyway mostly you have to mix it with regular flour​.

[U235]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I looked at Schmidts earlier this year and chose about 4 types of flour, 5kg of each then asked for a quote. The cheapest was 70 baht/kg and the most expensive was over 330 baht/kg. I pointed out that I was trying to start a small business (I wasn't) and that I would have to sell my loaves at about 250 baht to show any profit and when I told my prospective (non) customers they said that they would not be interested at that price.

 

These prices are insane... I buy my flour in bags of 25 kg and pay thb 1040 for T51 and thb 1290 for Typo 00. (+ 7% vat)

 

Surdough Bread and wholemeal bread (pain complet) are thb 1850, Dark Rye Bread is thb 2350, but these I don't buy because it will take years to use them all. 

 

The supplier lives quite far away from my place, so I buy enough for one year. If you put the flour in small, well sealed bags, then it's no problem to keep them a year or longer (just be aware the bugs!). And it is convenient to have a large stock 

[KittenKong]

7 hours ago, U235 said:

If you put the flour in small, well sealed bags, then it's no problem to keep them a year or longer (just be aware the bugs!).

 

You can freeze flour also. No bugs in there!

[vogie]

7 hours ago, U235 said:

 

These prices are insane... I buy my flour in bags of 25 kg and pay thb 1040 for T51 and thb 1290 for Typo 00. (+ 7% vat)

 

Surdough Bread and wholemeal bread (pain complet) are thb 1850, Dark Rye Bread is thb 2350, but these I don't buy because it will take years to use them all. 

 

The supplier lives quite far away from my place, so I buy enough for one year. If you put the flour in small, well sealed bags, then it's no problem to keep them a year or longer (just be aware the bugs!). And it is convenient to have a large stock 

Do you know that the bugs (weevils) actually come in the flour you buy, the female lays her eggs in the grain kernel and makes its way into the flour. The only way to kill the bugs is to freeze the flour for 24hrs, but the thought of baking bread with these critters inside is quite sickening. 

[billd766]

14 hours ago, CLW said:

70 Baht is indeed expensive. Was it imported product? I buy my bread flour for 35 Baht per kilo bag. Can't recall exactly the price for the sourdough extract, but it wasn't expensive. It's called Fertigsauer from Ireks. They have a pretty good website with instructions how to use their products

 

Most of Schmidts stuff is imported.

 

This is what I was looking for.

 

 

Here is a pdf to Choco-Schmidt and IREKS.

 

 

IREKS Breadmix Catalog.pdf

[billd766]

14 hours ago, KittenKong said:

It may not be convenient for everyone, and they dont always have it, but Tops in the basement of Central in Pattaya do usually carry imported UK strong bread flour (and wholemeal), and occasionally stoneground and/or organic versions of the same. Prices are from around 120B for 1.5kg to around 175B for the same size, with occasional decent promos for One Card holders.

 

I find that the gold coloured bread flour from Makro at 35B/kg does develop a decent flavour if you let it prove for 24 hours. So I just mix it today for baking tomorrow.

 

My nearest Tops is in Phitsanulok 180 km away so I would face a 360 km roundtrip and 4 or 5 hours of travelling. I would need to buy a large amount of stuff to make it worthwhile and there is usually only me that eats the bread so I would be looking at perhaps a years supply of flour etc each trip.

[U235]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

Do you know that the bugs (weevils) actually come in the flour you buy, the female lays her eggs in the grain kernel and makes its way into the flour. The only way to kill the bugs is to freeze the flour for 24hrs, but the thought of baking bread with these critters inside is quite sickening. 

 

Good idea, will try it!

[CLW]

 
My nearest Tops is in Phitsanulok 180 km away so I would face a 360 km roundtrip and 4 or 5 hours of travelling. I would need to buy a large amount of stuff to make it worthwhile and there is usually only me that eats the bread so I would be looking at perhaps a years supply of flour etc each trip.

Doesn't have Tops a delivery service?

[KittenKong]

On 29/05/2017 at 3:14 PM, KittenKong said:

Seems quite similar to the ones sold by Amazon UK for about 4000B, so the price markup here is what one might expect. I've been thinking of buying one with a dough hook on my next UK trip but they are a bit heavy and cumbersome for packing, so I may just get one of those here.

 

I had a look at the Makro mixers today. They had the 6000B one, and they had another one that was smaller for about 2750B. I was quite tempted by the cheaper one as I dont need the full size of the larger one (I normally make one 400g loaf at a time, though I could be tempted to make double and freeze half) and the construction and design of both was very similar indeed.

 

They also had several much larger "pro" mixers with no price stickers. Some of those were huge so might be of interest to anyone who wants to do commercial baking. "Made in Pattaya" according to the label, which left me a little nonplussed.