Airport Taxi Scam?

[1Lucky]

For years at Don Muang I wondered why there was so frequently a shortage of metered taxis available at the airport (enormous queues, few taxis, etc.) but plenty of 'limosine services' for double the metered price into town.

Now at the new airport whilst I didn't have a problem queuing for the metered taxis and didn't have a problem getting them to put the meter on I did wonder why there were virtually no signs to the taxi area. There were plenty of people allowed to hang around offering 'limosine' serivces but no simple signs to the taxi area (other than a confusing piece of A4 paper celotaped to a stairway). Looking at the maps of the airport there also appears to be an enormous parking area dedicated to limosine taxis and a comparatively much smaller area for metered taxis.

Unless I have misunderstood I also understand that if you want to get a local bus into town you first have to get a shuttle bus from the airport to the local bus stand and then get the bus. Not very helpful if you have plenty of baggage and are new in town.

Is this really just inefficiency or is there some scam/vested interests behind all this trying to squeeze as much money as possible out of new arrivals?

Lucky

[stumonster]

the original plan did was not to allow any taxi's to pick up at the airport - its was only decided shortly before the new airport opened , which is probably why there is no signage etc.

[karazyal]

You wrote: "Unless I have misunderstood I also understand that if you want to get a local bus into town you first have to get a shuttle bus from the airport to the local bus stand and then get the bus. Not very helpful if you have plenty of baggage and are new in town."

*

Yes this is true. There is a free shuttle bus that takes you to the Transportation Center, about a 5 to 7 minute ride. This new bus terminal is pretty good. After you see how many destinations these busses go to you will see how impractical it would to have all of these busses making a pass past the terminal.

I counted at least 15 different busses for destinations to many cities/towns and provinces in Thailand. The bus I used to get to Sukhumvit was the #552, it stops at the On Nut Skytrain stop. More bus destinations planned for the future, so the lady at the Pattaya window told me.

There is an Express Bus that stops directly at the terminal. This Express Bus is like the old Airport Bus that used to leave DM. The price was first quoted to be 150 baht, later posts said now it is 120 baht for the ride. I never used this bus - YET! Two people in a meter taxi, after the 50 baht sign-up fee, may be able to get into town cheaper than the much slower Express Bus.

[1Lucky]

You wrote: "Unless I have misunderstood I also understand that if you want to get a local bus into town you first have to get a shuttle bus from the airport to the local bus stand and then get the bus. Not very helpful if you have plenty of baggage and are new in town."

*

Yes this is true. There is a free shuttle bus that takes you to the Transportation Center, about a 5 to 7 minute ride. This new bus terminal is pretty good. After you see how many destinations these busses go to you will see how impractical it would to have all of these busses making a pass past the terminal.

I counted at least 15 different busses for destinations to many cities/towns and provinces in Thailand. The bus I used to get to Sukhumvit was the #552, it stops at the On Nut Skytrain stop. More bus destinations planned for the future, so the lady at the Pattaya window told me.

There is an Express Bus that stops directly at the terminal. This Express Bus is like the old Airport Bus that used to leave DM. The price was first quoted to be 150 baht, later posts said now it is 120 baht for the ride. I never used this bus - YET! Two people in a meter taxi, after the 50 baht sign-up fee, may be able to get into town cheaper than the much slower Express Bus.

I don't see why its not simple and sensible to have a local priced bus route or two directly from the airport into Central Bangkok. This is different than the express bus in that the express bus is about 15 times the price that the local bus would be. I referred to 'a local bus into town' and wasn't suggesting that bus routes to all destinations around Thailand be routed directly out of the airport.

The fact that they originally were going to have no local taxis at all running from the airport seems quite alarming (particularly as the planned rail connection is around 2 years off completion) and suggests to me that the original suspicions I outlined were correct.

[bendix]

It's not a scam. As someone said, it was originally intended to have no taxis at the airport itself. A last minute reversal changed that, hence no signs.

All you have to do is ask one of the many 'helpers' there, and they will point you to the taxi stand. It's no big deal.

Not everything in Thailand is a scam, you know.

[1Lucky]

Of course its a scam in the sense of it being a rip off. I live in Thailand and love the country and people - pointing out an obvious taxi scam at the airport in know way suggested that everything in Thailand was a scam.

If you've not noticed - many of the kind 'helpers' you see at the airport are actually there to push the limosine services to new arrivals who don't know any better (even more so because of the absence of public taxi signs).

You don't work for the AOT do you?

[autonomous_unit]

I arrived last night and quickly found the "temporary" taxi stand mentioned above. I guess I was sleepy, but I forgot to check that the meter was on when we pulled away... The driver wanted to charge me a 600 THB flat rate to Nonthaburi, only 200 THB less than one of the limo touts had offered me.

My wife got involved in the debate when we arrived at my home, and she called the agency responsible for taxis. The drawn out discussion made it clear that the driver believed he was supposed to get a flat rate, based on some written guidelines he had received from the transportation administration. However, the guy they engaged over the phone was adamant that we at most owed about 300 THB of metered fare (estimated based on our route) plus the 50 THB fee. He apparently even suggested that we should refuse to pay anything, and report the taxi by number and with our ticket stub information from the airport taxi stand. He told my wife that they are trying to be very strict about protecting the experience passengers get from taxis at Suvarnabhumi.

Anyway, my wife usually is the cynic and first to cry, "scam!" when she thinks other Thais are trying to hook her or give us some sort of "tourist rate". However, even she felt that this poor driver was really honestly confused about the procedures at the new airport. We decided to tip him 50 THB over the 350. Unless he was a very good actor/scam artist, I think he was mostly just embarrassed at being wrong about how to charge for the ride.

All told, I guess I will miss the days of flying into Don Muang and having a quick 200 THB ride across the river, without any toll roads.

[The Coder]

That was a scam for sure. Anytime you enter a taxi and (1) the meter is off and (2) he doesn't quote a price, then you are in DEEP trouble because he will tell you the price when you get to the destination and it aint gonna be cheap and you'll have a tougher time backing out.

[Soju]

That was a scam for sure. Anytime you enter a taxi and (1) the meter is off and (2) he doesn't quote a price, then you are in DEEP trouble because he will tell you the price when you get to the destination and it aint gonna be cheap and you'll have a tougher time backing out.

Agree, it was nothing but a scam and the driver knew full well the situation. All taxis that pick up passengers at the airport were required to go to some training and to get certified. Without the certification he would never have been allowed at the stand. I would have followed the agency's advice and not paid him anything and filed a complaint against him. Some people are just too soft and gullible in believing these taxi driver's sob stories which they've had years to practice on unsuspecting tourists.

[autonomous_unit]

Yes, I suppose you are right. I suppose my 4-week stint back in the US reinstated my gullibility, along with destroying my heat tolerance.

[bendix]

Of course its a scam in the sense of it being a rip off. I live in Thailand and love the country and people - pointing out an obvious taxi scam at the airport in know way suggested that everything in Thailand was a scam.

If you've not noticed - many of the kind 'helpers' you see at the airport are actually there to push the limosine services to new arrivals who don't know any better (even more so because of the absence of public taxi signs).

You don't work for the AOT do you?

There are 'helpers' who work for the limo companies, and there are official and clearly identifiable helpers (they wear official airport badges and ID) who will direct you to the metered taxi line.

Life is pretty simple if you don't think everyone is out to get you.

Even calling the limo companies a scam is stretching it. They are there to make a buck, same as everyone else. They will quote you a price and you can either accept it or decline it. If you decline it, you can easily find your way to the official metered taxi-stand.

I'm struggling to see where that is a scam.

[lingyai]

Of course its a scam in the sense of it being a rip off. I live in Thailand and love the country and people - pointing out an obvious taxi scam at the airport in know way suggested that everything in Thailand was a scam.

If you've not noticed - many of the kind 'helpers' you see at the airport are actually there to push the limosine services to new arrivals who don't know any better (even more so because of the absence of public taxi signs).

You don't work for the AOT do you?

There are 'helpers' who work for the limo companies, and there are official and clearly identifiable helpers (they wear official airport badges and ID) who will direct you to the metered taxi line.

Life is pretty simple if you don't think everyone is out to get you.

Even calling the limo companies a scam is stretching it. They are there to make a buck, same as everyone else. They will quote you a price and you can either accept it or decline it. If you decline it, you can easily find your way to the official metered taxi-stand.

I'm struggling to see where that is a scam.

At the airport and some other places in Thailand there are offical looking people dressed in uniforms that give the impression they are from the gov't and try to help you while in reality they are private business employees trying to make a buck. I have no problem with trying to make a buck or a baht but when they pass themselves off as someone they are not it borders on scam. Those of us who live here or have visited a few times can can spot these guys but for new arrivals it is easy to see how they are fooled.

[bendix]

True . . . . we must protect the stupid and gullible from themselves, I guess.

Adam Smith would be turning in his grave.

[1Lucky]

Bendix the scam is not so much the free choice that this offers regulars to the airport who know what the choices are and can select as they wish. The scam is that it takes advantage of newcomers to the airport who do not know what the options are. They are not 'stupid and gullible' but simply taken advantage of by those who wish to squeeze money out of them by effectively pretending that they are the 'taxi service' at the airport and obscuring the fact that there is a much cheaper service one floor below. I'm not clear why anyone would have a problem with making the cheaper public taxi service clear other than those who would wish to benefit financially by obscuring it.

[bendix]

I guess it's a philosophical difference. Isnt this simply the free market in action?

Informed buyers of everything the world over tend to get better deals based on their research of various options, alternatives and knowledge of other suppliers.

Premium prices can and usually are charged to the lazier buyers or those who just don't care.

I see nothing intrinsically wrong with that.

Caveat emptor.

Edited October 20, 2006 by bendix

[1Lucky]

Bendix you must have studied a different approach to economic theory than me. As I understand it this is almost the complete opposite of a free market. Unless I am mistaken it appears to be an attempted monopoly by AOT. A free market involves equal access to the market and freedom of information both of which are conspicuously absent here.

In terms of who cares my guess would be Thailand itself should care more than I do. First impressions are so significant and compare the first impression you might get of the airport authorities apparently trying to hoodwink you into over-paying compared to the first impression of efficiency and honesty you get on arriving in say Chek Lap Kok in Hong Kong or Changi in Singapore. A change might avoid newcomers developing the impression you mentioned earlier about everything in Thailand being a scam.

Lucky

[bendix]

To borrow unashamedly from Oscar Wilde . . . "someone in this thread is boring me to death, and i think it might be me."

I'll get me coat . . . . .

[1Lucky]

Sorry Bendix - just taking the opportunity to bump up my number of postings - am jealous of your senior member four squares.

[marshbags]

If you wish to believe that taxis where NOT unofficially included in the plans for the new airport then you must believe in the asset declarations being yet another true statement and not economical of truth by the very same officials.

This in itself was the original airport taxi scam on which i posted at the outset of the pre opening threads.

If you think that taxis where a non starter originally contrary to what they said, then that,s a joke in itself.

Regarding the signs, this was a glaring cock up in many areas ( the lacking of them ) so this doesn,t hold up to the reasons put forward about taxis not planned so non where sighted.

In my humble opinion of course

marshbags

P.S.

Yet another not yet uncovered tea scam i reckon to be credited to the now old administration.

In truth they where awaiting the highest bidders for the concessions and let,s at least be honest to ourselves.

[lingyai]

To borrow unashamedly from Oscar Wilde . . . "someone in this thread is boring me to death, and i think it might be me."

I'll get me coat . . . . .

what bendix is really saying: "my posts were lacking in sense and were proven to be so by 1Lucky so now suddenly I will say I am bored of this thread instead of continue to defend my senseless posts on this matter."

Edited October 22, 2006 by lingyai

[MiG16]

coming to bendix defence

ok this is how it goes.......

initially taxis were all meant to be in same location as buses...at the transport centre...so anyone that arrived would have had to take shuttle to transport centre. there was a lot of feedback that that arrangement would be not convenient at al...what with ppl with big bags etc. so they put taxis back at terminal again.

not very wise planning that i agree with. but intended as a scam? hmmm I wouldnt agree with that. the minute u come out of the customs area there are some temp signs that point u to taxis. not glamorous, not professional, that I must admit...but serves the purpose all the same. i found the taxis, just followed the sign.

is information withheld from consumer? cant say that can we. free market? I still believe so. infact if I remember correctly there was also signage to shuttle bus and transport centre.

happy travelling

[bendix]

Ok . . to show my favourite stalker, lingyai, that I'm not caving in, I still maintain that there is nothing intrinsically 'anti-competitive' about the taxi arrangements at the airport.

The concept of 'free market' is a complex one. To expect all participants in a market or in negotiations to be completely equal is next to impossible.

Economic theorists talk about a concept called information assymetry. It is based on the notion that in any deal, marketplace or economic transaction one party is likely to know more information than the other - and it is usually the seller because they necessarily specialise in their field. They use that extra knowledge to gain an advantage (and in my opinion a fair one) over their prospect.

Why not?

Such information assymetry can easily be overcome if the purchaser has the time, inclination or motivation to do his research and so balance the tables.

Let's apply it . . A guy takes his car to the workshop and is given a quote. By knowing more about his car, it problems and - more importantly - his options with other workshops, he is able to bridge that information gap. If he can't be bothered, so be it.

Same same for the so-called taxi scam. AOT allows these private limo companies to ply their services. But, at the same time, they do other things such as allow meter taxis to operate, build a bus terminal and also make arrangements to have a high speed rail link ready for operation in a couple of years.

If that's a monopoly, then I'm a banana.

And to those who say incoming passengers might think the touts are the only option, i say that it is easy to find out their alternative by being smart, savvy and self-interested consumers.

[cwilliam]

That was a scam for sure. Anytime you enter a taxi and (1) the meter is off and (2) he doesn't quote a price, then you are in DEEP trouble because he will tell you the price when you get to the destination and it aint gonna be cheap and you'll have a tougher time backing out.

If you don't have enough sense to get the price of a taxi right before you move you deserve to be taken advantage of

[Soju]

That was a scam for sure. Anytime you enter a taxi and (1) the meter is off and (2) he doesn't quote a price, then you are in DEEP trouble because he will tell you the price when you get to the destination and it aint gonna be cheap and you'll have a tougher time backing out.

If you don't have enough sense to get the price of a taxi right before you move you deserve to be taken advantage of

I disagree in this case. All taxis from the taxi stand are required to use their meter. No need for any negotiations of any sort. You simply pay the meter, plus 50 Baht, plus any tollway charges. That's the way it's been for a long time in catching taxis from the airport taxi stand. There are signs (or at least there were at Don Muang) clearly stating the situation. If he didn't turn on the meter as required, no payment should be given to him and he should be reported for his illegal activities.

[The Coder]

I disagree in this case. All taxis from the taxi stand are required to use their meter. No need for any negotiations of any sort. You simply pay the meter, plus 50 Baht, plus any tollway charges.

That's nice in theory but it doesn't always work that way in practice. One time when it was my turn at the counter at the airport the driver had the audacity right in front of the attendant to tell me 400 baht (he knew the trip would be 250 and unbeknownst to him, so did I). Rather than argue, I turned to counter attendant and said I wanted another taxi that would use the meter. She didn't want to give me another taxi and I made it clear I was not going anywhere without a meter on. I was a little taken aback that the attendant didn't seem to care. He then reluctantly conceded to user the meter, mumbling a bit about it during the trip.

[Soju]

I disagree in this case. All taxis from the taxi stand are required to use their meter. No need for any negotiations of any sort. You simply pay the meter, plus 50 Baht, plus any tollway charges.

That's nice in theory but it doesn't always work that way in practice. One time when it was my turn at the counter at the airport the driver had the audacity right in front of the attendant to tell me 400 baht (he knew the trip would be 250 and unbeknownst to him, so did I). Rather than argue, I turned to counter attendant and said I wanted another taxi that would use the meter. She didn't want to give me another taxi and I made it clear I was not going anywhere without a meter on. I was a little taken aback that the attendant didn't seem to care. He then reluctantly conceded to user the meter, mumbling a bit about it during the trip.

Well, in that case I agree with what you did being the driver announced ahead of time that he wanted to scam you. If the driver doesn't say anything, then it's assumed that he will be using the meter. There should be no need to ask him ahead of time if he's going to use it. In your case, I would have asked for the attendant's name and asked her for the name/contact number for her supervisor. No reason why that attendant should be working in that job with such an attitude.

[Briggsy]

I agree with 1Lucky in that the location of the metered taxis is not obvious. I ended up going up to departures.

[tropo]

And to those who say incoming passengers might think the touts are the only option, i say that it is easy to find out their alternative by being smart, savvy and self-interested consumers.

Bendix, your logic is sound.

Many people on this thread have whinged about limos touting for excessive prices. This is not true.

When I arrive at Bangkok airport after a long flight, I'm very happy to pay the extra money for a limousine to Pattaya. I end up travelling in much more comfort in a more spacious car...and hence it's worth the extra money to me.

I walk out of arrivals, hit the limo desk right outside the exit, pay the 2000 (June) and my luggage is promptly whisked away and I'm out of there in a few minutes while others are sweating in the tropical heat in a queue trying to negotiate a price for a taxi. Sometimes it's worth spending a little more...and it's not really much more.

All transport is not equal. You can't compare taxi prices to those of a limousine service anymore than you can compare a taxi to a bus.

[Jeffery Stanthorpe]

True . . . . we must protect the stupid and gullible from themselves, I guess.

Adam Smith would be turning in his grave.

who is Adam Smith ?

[Rinrada]

True . . . . we must protect the stupid and gullible from themselves, I guess.

Adam Smith would be turning in his grave.

who is Adam Smith ?

Wee Scottish Guy who is recognised as being the "father" of the principals of Job creation,Capitalism and Free trade.

Wrote a couple of books a few years (believe 1776) ago including "The Wealth of Nations"and will be celebrated next year by getting his photo on the front of Bank of Englands £20 notes.

He is already on Scottish £50 notes but....

Incid it was another wee Jock called Bill Patterson who actually founded the Bank.....

Anyway ...Re the Suwanna-P Taxi drivers ...had NO problems with them...and Mai peng.....

One night we got back from C.M.(4 of us ) and had the usual jokes and banter with the touts and suggested they get jobs on comedy shows..etc...so funny ...Bt 2K...ha-ha...real Tommy Coopers...

Anyway with the extra luggage we got a taxi (Bt 50 extra OK) and the guys at the stand were very helpfull...but thisng is ...it was a lady driver and she had I think a Toyota Inova ...loads of room and realy comfi...better than the usual renta wrecks.

The route we took back to Teperak was via Naem Deng Road (never been before)which crosses Shri Nak bu is getting "done Up" at the moment....new drains etc...real mess...but when its finished will be a great alternative to that part of Bangers.....and No toll fees.....