VincentRJ Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Does anyone know what Buddhism says about conspiring to frame two innocents for murders they didn't commit? And what about Buddhists who don't come forward to tell the truth? For months and months I was convinced that someone would come forward and speak the truth no matter what, because their religion speaks about doing good and the laws of karma but it never happened. Strange. So of 100's of people on Koh Tao who actually know what really happened nobody came forward with their story? And all out of fear? It's impossible to cover up a story of this magnitude on such a small island! So it's kind of logical that many people know the real story. There must even be farangs who live and work on Tao who know the truth, either working in the diving industry or owning businesses. That nobody sticks their neck out for anyone anymore is maybe part of the time we live in. Can't imagine someone who knows the truth would be quiet and let 2 boys be sent to jail all their lives or even killed for a crime they didn't commit. That's impossible According to a certain part of the Buddha's teachings found in 'The Kalama Sutta, Angutarra Nikaya 3.65, Sutta Pitaka, Pali Canon', which was an address to a group of villagers known as the Kalamas, one should not believe in hearsay, rumour and speculative opinion, nor should one accept something as true merely because the authorities (whomever they may be) claim it is true. In this case of the Koh Tao murders, it would be consistent with Buddhist teachings not to accept the verdict handed down by the judges that the two Burmese are guilty, if there are unresolved doubts. It would also be consistent not to accept as true all the rumours and speculative opinion expressed in this thread, that the two are innocent and are being used as scapegoats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmarleesco Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 'Although it accepts that the case ... was not without flaws [which] include lack of chain of custody in evidence, arrest and interrogation of the two suspects without charge or legal representation and a lack of any witness who saw the two defendants committing the crimes.' Amazing Thailand, amazing justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTee Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Here is a thing I am confused about. David's iPhone 4.. This phone has been verified as being David's by a match with the IMEI - Let's just for one moment imagine that to be true despite the inconsistencies with the sate of the device. If you [/size]have[/size] an original [/size]iPhone[/size], you'll find the serial [/size]number[/size] and [/size]IMEI[/size] engraved on the [/size]back[/size].In addition on a i4 it is also on the SIM tray. So you smash it and miraculously it disappears???[/size] Oh and tell me a bit more about that Samsung phone that you claim David also had.[/size] There are photos of the David's iPhone that were released by the police on the 16 September. It does not look smashed to me. "So you smash it and miraculously it disappears???" I understand that things can be complicated for the synaptically challenged, but it's not impossible that someone trying to destroy evidence would remove or render useless any identifying markers - no miracles required. And despite there being photos of David's iPhone that clearly shows it not damaged, it wouldn't be impossible for someone to take out the SIM card tray and destroy\dispose of the identifier, again without divine intervention in the form of a miracle. Where is the evidence that the IMEI on this phone is same IMEI that David's family kindly supplied through the Thai Embassy in London, and NOT through the UK official as "accidentally" claimed by police\prosecution? If you want to know about David's Samsung Hero, I suggest you go and look for your self.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveinAsia Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Does anyone know what Buddhism says about conspiring to frame two innocents for murders they didn't commit? And what about Buddhists who don't come forward to tell the truth? For months and months I was convinced that someone would come forward and speak the truth no matter what, because their religion speaks about doing good and the laws of karma but it never happened. Strange. So of 100's of people on Koh Tao who actually know what really happened nobody came forward with their story? And all out of fear? It's impossible to cover up a story of this magnitude on such a small island! So it's kind of logical that many people know the real story. There must even be farangs who live and work on Tao who know the truth, either working in the diving industry or owning businesses. That nobody sticks their neck out for anyone anymore is maybe part of the time we live in. Can't imagine someone who knows the truth would be quiet and let 2 boys be sent to jail all their lives or even killed for a crime they didn't commit. That's impossible According to a certain part of the Buddha's teachings found in 'The Kalama Sutta, Angutarra Nikaya 3.65, Sutta Pitaka, Pali Canon', which was an address to a group of villagers known as the Kalamas, one should not believe in hearsay, rumour and speculative opinion, nor should one accept something as true merely because the authorities (whomever they may be) claim it is true. In this case of the Koh Tao murders, it would be consistent with Buddhist teachings not to accept the verdict handed down by the judges that the two Burmese are guilty, if there are unresolved doubts. It would also be consistent not to accept as true all the rumours and speculative opinion expressed in this thread, that the two are innocent and are being used as scapegoats. You didn't answer my 2 questions but a good point all the same but what if the rumors and speculations are based on the truth as they are in this case? This case is not just a conspiracy, it's almost as smelly as 9/11. There are more than serious doubts that the official story is true. The amount of lies and twists added during the 'investigation' only made the official story more doubtful. Anyone who really sees the B2 as the real perpetrators seriously need to reinvent themselves and do some serious soul searching. That's also why it's pretty clear that most of apologists on this forum are trolls at the same time and therefore fools. I mean how can someone debunk the truth if it is 99% sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maingmoom Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 So i will give an update on who the conspiracy theorist say are in on cover up The whole of Koh Tao island 15,000 The police The doctors The Coroner The Dna analysts The 4 institutes that tested Nomsods dna The Rotti seller The prosecution The courts Prayut Sean also a late starter the Miller Family you forgot the UK Embassy and Scotland Yard You both seem to forget The mafia is running the whole show and all the people you mention are puppets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTee Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Here is a thing I am confused about. David's iPhone 4.. Allegedly taken from David after the attack by one of the Burmese men.. they could not open it as it was locked with pin code. So apparently they smashed it and discarded it near their living quarters. This is at odds with photographs the police displayed at the time (As I posted earlier). This phone has been verified as being David's by a match with the IMEI - Let's just for one moment imagine that to be true despite the inconsistencies with the sate of the device. According to his friends the iPhone was SIM locked to his home account and would therefore cost lost of money to use in Thailand. David also had a Samsung phone that was unlocked that he used while travelling. Why would David carry around an expensive iPhone during the dark hours of night near the sea? Now that's a difficult one, but I take the challenge. Could it be so that people who don't have his temporary Thai number could reach him? While that may be possible, highly unlikely. Anyone with a UK SIM knows it costs £1.50 a minute to receive calls.. Occam's razor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUH Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy Thai police claim no evidence torture Koh Tao case. At trial medical evidence/prosecution witness supported Zaw Lin claims of chest injuries I do not recall this ever been mentioned. There was a statement by a cellmate of the B2 that Zaw Lin had made these claims to him but that same cellmate also revealed some other things that he had been told which were rather incriminating.... Been reading this thread, seems to be a fair bit you do not or do recall, perhaps a touch of selective memory when it suits you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweatalot Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Read the bottom comment to see a particularly nasty example of a Troll. (Surprised the post remains) I think that's sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy Thai police claim no evidence torture Koh Tao case. At trial medical evidence/prosecution witness supported Zaw Lin claims of chest injuries I do not recall this ever been mentioned. There was a statement by a cellmate of the B2 that Zaw Lin had made these claims to him but that same cellmate also revealed some other things that he had been told which were rather incriminating.... http://news.sky.com/story/1539151/koh-tao-murder-suspect-had-injuries-on-body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoDan Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy Thai police claim no evidence torture Koh Tao case. At trial medical evidence/prosecution witness supported Zaw Lin claims of chest injuries I do not recall this ever been mentioned. There was a statement by a cellmate of the B2 that Zaw Lin had made these claims to him but that same cellmate also revealed some other things that he had been told which were rather incriminating.... http://news.sky.com/story/1539151/koh-tao-murder-suspect-had-injuries-on-body Yes and he also said this. He said he heard both suspects confess to the rape and killing of Ms Witheridge, 23, and the murder of 24-year-old Mr Miller, when he was translating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy Thai police claim no evidence torture Koh Tao case. At trial medical evidence/prosecution witness supported Zaw Lin claims of chest injuries I do not recall this ever been mentioned. There was a statement by a cellmate of the B2 that Zaw Lin had made these claims to him but that same cellmate also revealed some other things that he had been told which were rather incriminating.... http://news.sky.com/story/1539151/koh-tao-murder-suspect-had-injuries-on-body Yes and he also said this. He said he heard both suspects confess to the rape and killing of Ms Witheridge, 23, and the murder of 24-year-old Mr Miller, when he was translating. Of course Mr Kringkrai was paid by the police and real murders to tell lies about he heard his fellow countrymen confess to the accusations. NOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) I hope Thailand is taking these protests seriously. The world is watching and is witnessing a serious miscarriage of justice. There is a very considerable Burmese population in Thailand and things could get out of hand very easily and quickly. If the Thai's and Mr Millers family are so convinced of the evidence, please release it, because I for one have not seen ONE shred of evidence to convict these two men and I have followed this tragic event from day one. Edited December 28, 2015 by MorristheRunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I hope Thailand is taking these protests seriously. The world is watching and is witnessing a serious miscarriage of justice. There is a very considerable Burmese population in Thailand and things could get out of hand very easily and quickly. If the Thai's and Mr Millers family are so convinced of the evidence, please release it, because I can not seen ONE shred of evidence to convict these two men and I have followed this tragic event from day one. Do you honestly believe "the world is watching"? I think you're slightly over-estimating the global interest in this case. Unfortunately there are plenty of other horrors going on around the world (and in Thailand) which make this case of only passing interest, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 There is a lot of interest, hence why this case is still talked about. You are witnesing something very evil and sinister. This is a tradgedy for everyone involved and particularly the nation of Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 There is a lot of interest, hence why this case is still talked about. You are witnesing something very evil and sinister. This is a tradgedy for everyone involved and particularly the nation of Thailand. Maybe in Thailand and Myanmar. But it's hardly on the scale of Paris, which generated genuine worldwide concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorristheRunt Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 There is a lot of interest, hence why this case is still talked about. You are witnesing something very evil and sinister. This is a tradgedy for everyone involved and particularly the nation of Thailand. Maybe in Thailand and Myanmar. But it's hardly on the scale of Paris, which generated genuine worldwide concern. Many people get murdered the world over, two young back packers are murdered on a thai beach. In normal circumstances the world would have not known, never mind cared what happened. Many people are aware and because of the shear contempt by the Thais will become even more aware. This story is NOT going to disappear, and I for one will NOT rest until the real perpetrators are brought to justice There are several sick murderers and rapists on on the loose in Koh Tao and they WILL strike again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 < snip > and I have followed this tragic event from day one. As who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maingmoom Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 There is a lot of interest, hence why this case is still talked about. You are witnesing something very evil and sinister. This is a tradgedy for everyone involved and particularly the nation of Thailand. Maybe in Thailand and Myanmar. But it's hardly on the scale of Paris, which generated genuine worldwide concern. Many people get murdered the world over, two young back packers are murdered on a thai beach. In normal circumstances the world would have not known, never mind cared what happened. Many people are aware and because of the shear contempt by the Thais will become even more aware. This story is NOT going to disappear, and I for one will NOT rest until the real perpetrators are brought to justice There are several sick murderers and rapists on on the loose in Koh Tao and they WILL strike again. I think Thailand may regret the day they found these two young lads guilty. This case has been brought to the attention of the whole world and I think the whole world is taking notice, and appalled by the verdict. What will happen. I can't predict, but I would warn Thai's to be careful if traveling in Myanmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?! Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?! Why exactly, would that be so? Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!). So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up". We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts! All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?! On what planet does that make ANY sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I hope Thailand is taking these protests seriously. The world is watching and is witnessing a serious miscarriage of justice. There is a very considerable Burmese population in Thailand and things could get out of hand very easily and quickly. If the Thai's and Mr Millers family are so convinced of the evidence, please release it, because I for one have not seen ONE shred of evidence to convict these two men and I have followed this tragic event from day one. A workers strike is all the Myanmar workers need do. The entire economy ( aside from prostitution ) is based on their slave waged efforts-hotels, homes and offices all built by foreign labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthEnergiser Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthEnergiser Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy Thai police claim no evidence torture Koh Tao case. At trial medical evidence/prosecution witness supported Zaw Lin claims of chest injuries I do not recall this ever been mentioned. There was a statement by a cellmate of the B2 that Zaw Lin had made these claims to him but that same cellmate also revealed some other things that he had been told which were rather incriminating.... Maybe you should do it bit more reading before assuming they are Guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted! The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this? They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!! I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Some off topic nonsense posts and replies have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?! Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?! Why exactly, would that be so? Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!). So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up". We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts! All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?! On what planet does that make ANY sense? If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthEnergiser Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo asked our team to give the following messages to the general public today during our prison visit... Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy 'Thank you everyone who has supported us. We are innocent and we were not involved in this horrific crime, we didn't kill. We want freedom.' Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy 'We are confident the truth of this case will come out during the appeals and we are confident we will eventually be released on appeal.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted! The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this? They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!! I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial. You are such a hoot! Why did they retract their confession, the moment, they had lawyers and help on their side, instead a "safe house" and some guys with gasoline, lighters and plastic bags, to put over their heads? Well...it remains a mystery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthEnergiser Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy 'We will meditate every day/pray to Buddha for freedom but also for peace/happiness of all those in the world, including Koh Tao victims.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo asked our team to give the following messages to the general public today during our prison visit... Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy 'Thank you everyone who has supported us. We are innocent and we were not involved in this horrific crime, we didn't kill. We want freedom.' Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy 'We are confident the truth of this case will come out during the appeals and we are confident we will eventually be released on appeal.' You didn't expect they would tweet something in the line of, thanks for your support but the evidence against us caught up on our story, did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Follow Andy Hall@Atomicalandy Thai police claim no evidence torture Koh Tao case. At trial medical evidence/prosecution witness supported Zaw Lin claims of chest injuries I do not recall this ever been mentioned. There was a statement by a cellmate of the B2 that Zaw Lin had made these claims to him but that same cellmate also revealed some other things that he had been told which were rather incriminating.... He did have bruising to his chest and a injury to his wrist, the truthers like to say it couldn't be the B2 who did it because they had no injuries the fact is ZL did . it doesn't matter if physical injury was evident or not - it is a stupid and pointless argument, there are many ways to torture people without leaving a mark and physical injuries can be self inflicted what is important here is that they did not get legal council when they were detained, then it is impossible to say who is telling the truth about torture or so called confessions, if they had been granted proper legal representation then none of this discussion would be taking place The fact is nobody knows what went on during the questioning, none of them can be trusted to tell the truth so any results from such a process are basically invalid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts