Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[Khun Han]

I too find it strange that the DNA methods were not challenged by the defence.

Can someone remind me what the "methods" were?
was it PCR, STR or did they use AmpFLP? What method was used to create a distinction between Hannah's and the other DNA was it differential lysis or mtDNA?

How many runs were made on each sample?
How did the lab ensure there was no contamination?
Were each person's samples sent to separate labs? because clearly one labs wouldn't be expected to process all samples, without adequate time periods to remove the possibility of contamination?
Where are the results of the negative control runs - and the contamination logs?



And what about the Electropherograms (E-grams) - I mean the lab reports had all of this information right?

The Court report (Docket Number: 2040/2557; Red Case Number: 2558) says:


STR vWA analysis: DNA from rectum of Hannah Witheridge

• 16 matching loci to Zaw Lin (Zoren) & 16 matching loci to Wai Phyo (Win)

STR vWA analysis: DNA from vagina of Hannah Witheridge

• 16 matching loci to Wai Phyo (Win)

STR D2S1338 analysis: DNA from right nipple of Hannah Witheridge

• Positive match to Wai Phyo (Win), loci 20 & 25 missing

I don't have the answers to your other questions as I wasn't in Court, but I have read the Court report which states the above information.

The Court report has a lot of information (63 pages of it) that everyone should read.

I'm still waiting for the unofficial English translation, as I do not have the time or energy to translate the entire document myself.

Good post STE, and I hope you'll be able to post the translated court report one day.

It's unlikely that a translation of the full court report will have much more than curiosity value for the reason that Smedly keeps on outlining. The judge(s) clearly stated that the only compelling evidence is the DNA evidence, which they consider to be sound. But the DNA evidence has been categorically proven to be very unsound so far. Unless the prosecuters can come up with much, much better DNA evidence, what is good enough for the Thai judiciary will continue to be derided by experts and journalists everywhere.

Do you have a source for that? The Judges didn't state that the only compelling evidence was the DNA in the Court report. It was also the corroborative evidence - the numerous accounts of circumstantial evidence.

Your team haven't briefed you properly yet, have they? They posted tweets earlier from the BBC's Jonathan Head, claiming (falsely) that he'd come over to Team Nomsod's POV. Go back a few pages in the thread to find the tweets, where all will be revealed.

[DiscoDan]

The reason I posted the hair pics was, someone posed a challenge.

I obliged.

But of course, the challenger had nothing to say...

asiamaster, on 01 Jan 2016 - 12:18, said:

MorristheRunt, on 01 Jan 2016 - 11:57, said:

If were talking hairstyles, it seemed a little strange that a certain student in Bangkok suddenly had a very different hairstyle when he appeared with his lawyer to explain his innocence!

Oh yes very different. Kindly provide some pics so we can do a comparison. Preferably just before the murder and just after he had his haircut.

On all the pictures you sent of Nomsod you can still see his ears. You have proven nothing at all.

What a great find this photo was just more proof they got the right men.

Funny how you never seen this photo on the so called justice for Hannah and David social media sites that are meant to be trying to find the truth.

[silverado]

I too find it strange that the DNA methods were not challenged by the defence.

Can someone remind me what the "methods" were?

was it PCR, STR or did they use AmpFLP? What method was used to create a distinction between Hannah's and the other DNA was it differential lysis or mtDNA?

How many runs were made on each sample?

How did the lab ensure there was no contamination?

Were each person's samples sent to separate labs? because clearly one labs wouldn't be expected to process all samples, without adequate time periods to remove the possibility of contamination?

Where are the results of the negative control runs - and the contamination logs?

And what about the Electropherograms (E-grams) - I mean the lab reports had all of this information right?

The Court report (Docket Number: 2040/2557; Red Case Number: 2558) says:

STR vWA analysis: DNA from rectum of Hannah Witheridge

• 16 matching loci to Zaw Lin (Zoren) & 16 matching loci to Wai Phyo (Win)

STR vWA analysis: DNA from vagina of Hannah Witheridge

• 16 matching loci to Wai Phyo (Win)

STR D2S1338 analysis: DNA from right nipple of Hannah Witheridge

• Positive match to Wai Phyo (Win), loci 20 & 25 missing

I don't have the answers to your other questions as I wasn't in Court, but I have read the Court report which states the above information.

The Court report has a lot of information (63 pages of it) that everyone should read.

I'm still waiting for the unofficial English translation, as I do not have the time or energy to translate the entire document myself.

hum

the rtp is trustworthy

the investigations were trustworthy

the witnesses of prosecution are trustworthy

the thai courts/judges/prosecutors are trustworthy

dna testing and analizing in thailand by thai police is trustworthy

then,

the court report must be trustworthy

[smedly]

Of course they want it swept under the carpet asap, so they can carry on 'living the dream' on that hellhole island.

God forbid it might affect their long running competition of who can sleep with the most fresh meat dive students.

although this particular crime turned out to be a murder there was a very interesting post on TVF some time ago making reference to Koh Tao and its less than savory past criminal activities especially those involving rape accusations made by young western girls holidaying on the Island, there have also been suspected murders, I can't find the post but it was made by someone that lived there for a decent length of time

This particular crime against Hannah could well have started as an intended rape that went bad because of the interference of David and culminated in a double murder.

Possibly Lots of young innocent western girls being prayed upon by local thugs who seem have the run of the place and an ego and attitude that they can get away with anything when the opportunity presents.

Most murder investigations have an almost identical approach by police investigators

1. Establish a motive (very important) - in this case it was claimed to be sexual in nature (UK coroner stated no evidence of rape)

2. Investigations almost always start from the location the victims were last known to be alive and from there look for a motive - the initial investigation more or less seemed to have started in this way but then suddenly stopped and went dark. A possible motive was the strongly rumoured altercation with one of the staff were Hannah was last seen alive

3. Establish the movements of the victims from item 2 above by interviewing witnesses and review cctv footage if available - not done - hidden or prevented, were they together ? did they leave together ? times ? who did they talk to ? who were they with ?

4. The rest is down to (SOCO) gathering evidence from the crime scene (we all know how that went) bringing it together to establish possible suspects based on the motive and linking them to the crime using the gathered evidence, in this particular crime it was primarily the DNA evidence they claimed to have but have yet never produced, also the injuries to David especially the small puncture wounds never properly explained.

5. Make a case for prosecution using all of the above and present to court

for me there are serious issues with every item listed above which is why I remain unconvinced

Yes, there are serious issues with every item, namely that you assume facts not in evidence, if not directly contested by the known facts.

1. The UK coroner (according to Andy Hall) said that she found no rape related injuries, which does not mean rape didn't occur.

2. You assume the police changed the direction of the investigation for... reasons, the rumor you are clinging to has never been substantiated by any credible source.

3. The prosecution spent one day (12 hours) going through CCTV footage tracing the movements of the victims.

4. The DNA evidence was presented in court, you are in absolute denial regarding that. As for the injuries, again, you assume they were not explained... did you even bother to read the preliminary verdict report?

5. That's what the prosecution did.

I suggest that you remain unconvinced because your assumptions don't match with the known facts. If you would inform yourself and stop rejecting facts that you don't like things would probably become less confusing.

To add to point 1, according to the Court report, the only discrepancy mentioned was the lack of a tear in the perineum (found in Thai autopsy, not UK). It wasn't stated that there was no evidence of rape found.

It also wasn't admitted to evidence, because Andy Hall didn't get his specialists (coroner and the gait specialist) to testify in court. If they can't be cross examined, their findings can't be admitted to evidence.

Edit. I don't mean to imply that was the only discrepancy found in the UK report, it just was the only one mentioned (to my knowledge) in the Court report. Since they didn't admit it to evidence, it wasn't really discussed in the report because the findings didn't matter if the specialist wasn't there to testify.

I made no reference to any Thai autopsy, I also did not claim or discuss what was or wasn't admitted/admissible to these proceedings in Thailand, I will however make my own mind up as to what evidence I will believe no matter about its source, I will consider everything and come to my own conclusion and discuss it however and wherever I chose

[silverado]

it seems that the disgusting troll familly new member is well up for the job :

"Yes, DNA found on Hannah (bite mark to her right breast/nipple) was a positive match to Wai Phyo.

DNA inside her rectum was a match to both Zaw Lin & Wai Phyo and the DNA inside her vagina was a match Wai Phyo." - SuratThaniExpats -

[Khun Han]

Except that there weren't any bite marks. The British coroner confirmed this.

[DiscoDan]

Except that there weren't any bite marks. The British coroner confirmed this.

Embalming washes out bit marks, and bodies have to be embalmed if they are put on a plane.

We seem to be going around in circles again

[silverado]

Except that there weren't any bite marks. The British coroner confirmed this.

yes , and no bite marks on the pics

[Khun Han]

Except that there weren't any bite marks. The British coroner confirmed this.

Embalming washes out bit marks, and bodies have to be embalmed if they are put on a plane.

We seem to be going around in circles again

Embalming heals lesions on cadavers? Wow! This has to be one of the best kept sectets in the world! A bit like the mythical Golden Fleece then? Does it bring cadavers back to life too?

Edited January 1, 2016 by Khun Han

[smedly]

Except that there weren't any bite marks. The British coroner confirmed this.

Embalming washes out bit marks, and bodies have to be embalmed if they are put on a plane.

We seem to be going around in circles again

no evidence of rape would IMO include sperm, yet to be clarified

does anyone here actually know the sort of injuries you expect to find on a rape victim, I would suggest you go do a little research on the matter.

[rockingrobin]

Two comments about the DNA tests...

1. Most forensic DNA laboratories perform negative controls, blank samples that will often detect contaminants in the laboratory. The blanks detect contaminants by showing partial or full DNA profiles representing the contaminants. Alternatively, the blank may show no profile, consistent with, but not proving that contamination didn't occur. Unfortunately, a few forensic DNA laboratories omit their controls.

Where are the blank sample tests to verify there was no cross-contamination of the DNA testing machine?

2. 16 matching loci?

You mean to tell me that in 2015 Thailand is more advanced than DNA forensic labs in America in 2008?

In America, they were only testing 13 loci:

http://freakonomics.com/2008/08/19/are-the-fbis-probabilities-about-dna-matches-crazy/

13 is only the minimum number of required loci for most of the profiles in CODIS. They can test for more if they want. The UK is higher, I believe.

Q: What are the minimum loci requirements for the STR DNA data submitted to NDIS?

A: The minimum CODIS Core Loci required for submission of DNA data to NDIS vary by specimen category. Generally, the 13 CODIS Core Loci are required for submission of convicted offender, arrestee, detainee, and legal profiles. The 13 CODIS Core Loci and Amelogenin are required for relatives of missing person profiles.

All 13 CODIS Core Loci must be attempted for other specimen categories with the following limited exceptions:

• For forensic DNA profiles, all 13 CODIS Core Loci must be attempted but at least 10 CODIS Core Loci must have generated results for submission to and searching at NDIS.
• For Missing Person and Unidentified Human Remains, all 13 CODIS Core Loci must be attempted.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet

your knowledge on dna and CODIS is lacking,

Do you know what the Loci identification are

[SiSePuede419]

"Where is this lock of hair?"

Serial killers often leave their "calling card" at the scene of a crime.

Wasn't someone on the island noted for their wearing of a blonde wig?

Furthermore, isn't there a weekly drag show/pub crawl with revelers wearing blonde wigs?

Maybe a "setup" placed there by a brunette killer?

Interesting it was never tested...

[SiSePuede419]

Two comments about the DNA tests...

1. Most forensic DNA laboratories perform negative controls, blank samples that will often detect contaminants in the laboratory. The blanks detect contaminants by showing partial or full DNA profiles representing the contaminants. Alternatively, the blank may show no profile, consistent with, but not proving that contamination didn't occur. Unfortunately, a few forensic DNA laboratories omit their controls.

Where are the blank sample tests to verify there was no cross-contamination of the DNA testing machine?

2. 16 matching loci?

You mean to tell me that in 2015 Thailand is more advanced than DNA forensic labs in America in 2008?

In America, they were only testing 13 loci:

http://freakonomics.com/2008/08/19/are-the-fbis-probabilities-about-dna-matches-crazy/

13 is only the minimum number of required loci for most of the profiles in CODIS. They can test for more if they want. The UK is higher, I believe.

Q: What are the minimum loci requirements for the STR DNA data submitted to NDIS?

A: The minimum CODIS Core Loci required for submission of DNA data to NDIS vary by specimen category. Generally, the 13 CODIS Core Loci are required for submission of convicted offender, arrestee, detainee, and legal profiles. The 13 CODIS Core Loci and Amelogenin are required for relatives of missing person profiles.

All 13 CODIS Core Loci must be attempted for other specimen categories with the following limited exceptions:

• For forensic DNA profiles, all 13 CODIS Core Loci must be attempted but at least 10 CODIS Core Loci must have generated results for submission to and searching at NDIS.
• For Missing Person and Unidentified Human Remains, all 13 CODIS Core Loci must be attempted.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet

your knowledge on dna and CODIS is lacking,

Do you know what the Loci identification are

Knowledge about CODIS has no relevance to this case.

I know more about DNA than 99% of Americans and 99.99% of Thais, but I'm just a super smart scientist, not a technician with a (equivalent) high school education.

BTW, you couldn't answer my #1 question, either could you?

What is your degree in, 555?

Edited January 1, 2016 by SiSePuede419

[HUH]

Except that there weren't any bite marks. The British coroner confirmed this.

Embalming washes out bit marks, and bodies have to be embalmed if they are put on a plane.

We seem to be going around in circles again

Your mention of embalming comes from an obscure book on Google reader which is on child autopsies.

The accepted procedure for recording bite marks is rigorous and well documented in any official autopsy report. BUT not the Thai one, where the only recording of a bite mark was "hear say" ie there was a bite mark. No photographs to back up that claim infact the only photos of the autopsy presented to the court were from the neck up.

Recording a bite mark in any internationally accepted report would include dozens of photos, who took the photos, the camera type the list goes on.

The fact that the UK coroner did not find any bite marks is very significant.

[Artisi]

So you say even David and Hannah's friends, including the Mc Anna braggart, are afraid to come forward if they had noticed the "on this forum only" suspected killer of their friends?

If they weren't eye witnesses to the crime what do you think they would know for sure? Also, how do you know what they have or haven't said to the police? Now Sean, he likely does know something or he wouldn't have a stab wound to his forearm and Facebook posts so scared for his life.

What about everyone's Facebook missing Nov. 2014?

The friends of the victims know very well that "on the CSI Social Media only" Nomsod is suspected to be the man in the CCTV footage, so if they had seen him and reported that to the police, and now notice that it is now covered up, they would have had plenty of opportunity to air their suspicions in the British press.

May be the British press is also involved in the cover up. NOT?
Yeah, probably Sean was involved in the killing of his friend.

I haven't seen any proof yet of EVERYONE'S facebook page missing, but what is your opinion about the reason for that?

My opinion is that, if it is really a fact what you state as I haven't seen any proof of it yet, that they are sick to the stomach about the armchair detectives looking at their FB and have changed their status to friends only

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying, the entire world is in on the cover up especially the British press :sarcasm:
Lent would Panya Mamen, who damn well knows who is who in his neck of the woods, Implicate Mon and Nomsod? Why would he say he had direct evidence and was preparing to make an arrest? RTP never lie as we all know... That's a hell of a limb to go out on with zero evidence, isn't it?

My one and only objective is for the animals responsible be put in a cell for life... That's it. I don't care who they are. I'd love for the kid to actually demonstrate he is innocent, For now I don't trust the story put fourth anymore than I do the RTP. Lastly, why is Mon now (allegedly) threatening CsiLA? Doesn't he have better things to do?

I'd love for the kid to actually demonstrate he is innocent,
No you don't because the kid has had proven already that he's innocent and you just don't accept it.

If I was Mon CSI LA wouldn't be the only one I was threatening, I would include this forum, and I would plain sue them.

Sue them for what ?

Truth.....

[Artisi]

You think it's OK to attempt to ruin people's businesses and hurt their employees and their dependents based on unfounded accusations?

As a matter of principles I don't; but apparently some people just can't understand the concept of principles and need to look for some ulterior motivations behind a person an ethical position...

Why not?

The Thai police do it to peoples lives in 'safe rooms' to get the answers they want; why can't it work the other way?

So you think that is OK to do unethical things to harm people because you think that some other people did something unethical?

Wow... just wow.

You seem to think it's ok to perpetuate what could be an injustice because someone else considered it to be ok.

Wow... Just wow!

[Artisi]

"He has organized campaigns to ruin businesses in Koh Tao"

And that really hits a raw nerve, doesn't it?

This!!

A lot of these guys who are happy with the verdict have vested interests in keeping the status quo the way is it on Koh Tao and not having the boat rocked.

So what if two young lads who had nothing to do with it go to prison and get the death penalty... As long as the money keeps rolling in...

Despicable people

Of course they want it swept under the carpet asap, so they can carry on 'living the dream' on that hellhole island.

God forbid it might affect their long running competition of who can sleep with the most fresh meat dive students.

although this particular crime turned out to be a murder there was a very interesting post on TVF some time ago making reference to Koh Tao and its less than savory past criminal activities especially those involving rape accusations made by young western girls holidaying on the Island, there have also been suspected murders, I can't find the post but it was made by someone that lived there for a decent length of time

This particular crime against Hannah could well have started as an intended rape that went bad because of the interference of David and culminated in a double murder.

Possibly Lots of young innocent western girls being prayed upon by local thugs who seem have the run of the place and an ego and attitude that they can get away with anything when the opportunity presents.

Most murder investigations have an almost identical approach by police investigators

1. Establish a motive (very important) - in this case it was claimed to be sexual in nature (UK coroner stated no evidence of rape)

2. Investigations almost always start from the location the victims were last known to be alive and from there look for a motive - the initial investigation more or less seemed to have started in this way but then suddenly stopped and went dark. A possible motive was the strongly rumoured altercation with one of the staff were Hannah was last seen alive

3. Establish the movements of the victims from item 2 above by interviewing witnesses and review cctv footage if available - not done - hidden or prevented, were they together ? did they leave together ? times ? who did they talk to ? who were they with ?

4. The rest is down to (SOCO) gathering evidence from the crime scene (we all know how that went) bringing it together to establish possible suspects based on the motive and linking them to the crime using the gathered evidence, in this particular crime it was primarily the DNA evidence they claimed to have but have yet never produced, also the injuries to David especially the small puncture wounds never properly explained.

5. Make a case for prosecution using all of the above and present to court

for me there are serious issues with every item listed above which is why I remain unconvinced

Serious issues would be the greatest understatement so far for 2016.....

[Artisi]

The Court report (Docket Number: 2040/2557; Red Case Number: 2558) says:


STR vWA analysis: DNA from rectum of Hannah Witheridge

• 16 matching loci to Zaw Lin (Zoren) & 16 matching loci to Wai Phyo (Win)

STR vWA analysis: DNA from vagina of Hannah Witheridge

• 16 matching loci to Wai Phyo (Win)

STR D2S1338 analysis: DNA from right nipple of Hannah Witheridge

• Positive match to Wai Phyo (Win), loci 20 & 25 missing

I don't have the answers to your other questions as I wasn't in Court, but I have read the Court report which states the above information.

The Court report has a lot of information (63 pages of it) that everyone should read.

I'm still waiting for the unofficial English translation, as I do not have the time or energy to translate the entire document myself.

Thanks for your contribution but it basically changes nothing from a DNA perspective unless they can produce the original samples and that they are independently verified otherwise it's just a lot of writing on a page

The DNA was independently tested by the Chiang Mai University, Prince of Songkla University and Chulalongkorn University laboratories.

I get the feeling you would not be satisfied until someone shows up at your door with a test tube labeled "DNA evidence".

What did they test, when did they test it and is there a full and complete documentation of chain of custody of the DNA from crime scene to court?

The Chain of Custody is discussed in the Court report. You're asking all these questions and the answers are in.the.Court.report.


What did they test? I already posted what loci they tested. It's in the Court report.
When did they test it? That's in the Court report too.

It's all in the Court report.

Think you may have missed something, irony.....

[Artisi]

"Where is this lock of hair?"

Serial killers often leave their "calling card" at the scene of a crime.

Wasn't someone on the island noted for their wearing of a blonde wig?

Furthermore, isn't there a weekly drag show/pub crawl with revelers wearing blonde wigs?

Maybe a "setup" placed there by a brunette killer?

Interesting it was never tested...

Why test blonde hair, Burmese aren't blonde. Edited January 2, 2016 by Artisi

[AGareth2]

could anyone else's DNA match the profiles recorded?

[asiamaster]

could anyone else's DNA match the profiles recorded?

Yes-identical twin brothers of Win & Zaw.

[smotherb]

Amazing how hundreds if not thousands have come on here like blind sheep and done everything in their power to discredit the RTP in this case.

This whole Thaivisa witch hunt was based on nothing more than rumours and innuendos with very few of us disagreeing or at least thinking "Hey wait a minute maybe it was these guys"

Even now when the family who were in the court unlike the members of Thaivisa who haven't got a clue what went on the witch hunt continues.

Talk about Thais not wanting to lose face.........have a look at yourselves and at least admit perhaps you were wrong

We must be reading different posts. Yes, there are posts trying to discredit the RTP and Thailand; this is quite commonplace on TV.

However, most of the posts I see supporting a not guilty verdict do so because they profess reasonable doubt; whereas, the posts I see supporting a guilty verdict accept the evidence given and deny reasonable doubt.

I do leave open the possibility that B2 committed the crimes just as I leave open the possibility they did not. Have you left open both possibilities?

I have yet to see any conclusive evidence of guilt or innocence. Granted, I have not been privy to all the information disseminated about this case, and I certainly have not had access to any of the evidence.

Additionally, I believe it is possible some of the victims' family members would want closure to this and would welcome a final verdict. Of course, a guilty verdict would bring more closure than a not guilty verdict.

[Tanlic]

If they are decent people not if they thought for 1 minute the b2 were innocent it wouldn't have

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[MorristheRunt]

If The British Coroners states that neither victim was raped, the case against the Burmese is destroyed.

I find it hard to believe that the Burmese raped the victims at least 3 times, killed two people, disfigured the female victim beyond recognition, moved the male victims to the tide level to drown, before finally putting the female victim in a suggestive pose.... Bull dung!! But not only that...after allegedly completing all of this they went home and straight to bed and slept soundly with no visible signs of violence!

The official story which convicted the two Burmese is total noncence.

Although as I have already stated, from believing the Burmese were 100% innocent, I do believe they were involved in this crime, but to a much lesser level. I certainly don't believe they are the murderers.

This was a crime of hate and I don't see the Burmese had a motive for that....

Edited January 2, 2016 by MorristheRunt

[MorristheRunt]

Two comments about the DNA tests...

1. Most forensic DNA laboratories perform negative controls, blank samples that will often detect contaminants in the laboratory. The blanks detect contaminants by showing partial or full DNA profiles representing the contaminants. Alternatively, the blank may show no profile, consistent with, but not proving that contamination didn't occur. Unfortunately, a few forensic DNA laboratories omit their controls.

Where are the blank sample tests to verify there was no cross-contamination of the DNA testing machine?

2. 16 matching loci?

You mean to tell me that in 2015 Thailand is more advanced than DNA forensic labs in America in 2008?

In America, they were only testing 13 loci:

http://freakonomics.com/2008/08/19/are-the-fbis-probabilities-about-dna-matches-crazy/

DNA 16 loci tests are very common. You can even order a home testing kit via mail order. Stop trying to sound like an expert Dr. Google.

I would hope even in Thailand, a serious murder investigation would be using International standard DNA procedures to commit two suspects and possible subsequent execution.

It's not if the Thai authorities did not have the offer of help from the International community. I believe the FBI and Singapore Authorities offered help in the early days of the investigation.

Maybe the FBI is aware the Thai DNA ability is not up to standard and wanted to give their expertise,

[smedly]

could anyone else's DNA match the profiles recorded?

Yes-identical twin brothers of Win & Zaw.

you mean the match of twin saliva samples taken from each of the accused - prove me wrong, produce the original samples

I asked a question a few days ago about the roti seller, is he still on the Island ? is he still selling roti ?

[Artisi]

If The British Coroners states that neither victim was raped, the case against the Burmese is destroyed.

I find it hard to believe that the Burmese raped the victims at least 3 times, killed two people, disfigured the female victim beyond recognition, moved the male victims to the tide level to drown, before finally putting the female victim in a suggestive pose.... Bull dung!! But not only that...after allegedly completing all of this they went home and straight to bed and slept soundly with no visible signs of violence!

The official story which convicted the two Burmese is total innocence.

Although as I have already stated, from believing the Burmese were 100% innocent, I do believe they were involved in this crime, but to a much lesser level. I certainly don't believe they are the murderers.

This was a crime of hate and I don't see the Burmese had a motive for that....

Somewhere in amongst all that probably lies a lot of truth, unfortunately it doesn't fit the model designed to protect the killer's. Therefore the "official" story takes precedence....... hence the injustice of the whole story....

[MorristheRunt]

could anyone else's DNA match the profiles recorded?

Yes-identical twin brothers of Win & Zaw.

you mean the match of twin saliva samples taken from each of the accused - prove me wrong, produce the original samples

I asked a question a few days ago about the roti seller, is he still on the Island ? is he still selling roti ?

IF he is still alive, I would think he is a very lonely and worried man.

One thing for certain, he will never be safe back in his homeland.

And I can't see his paymasters and new friends in Thailand worrying about his welfare anytime soon.

[Artisi]

could anyone else's DNA match the profiles recorded?

Yes-identical twin brothers of Win & Zaw.

you mean the match of twin saliva samples taken from each of the accused - prove me wrong, produce the original samples

I asked a question a few days ago about the roti seller, is he still on the Island ? is he still selling roti ?

Don't think there is much return in selling roti, believe he might be the official Burmese translator for the BIB, problem being there is no work available at the moment - - - of course this might change in a year or 2 after this case settles down and the "Thai boys" can resume their games.

[IslandLover]

Darkknight666, on 01 Jan 2016 - 13:23, said:

TheCruncher, on 01 Jan 2016 - 13:17, said:

iReason, on 01 Jan 2016 - 12:48, said:

@balo

Saying: "there are no witness observations of him on KT" is disingenuous at best.

Witnesses afraid to come forward would be more accurate.

Meanwhile a Police source said it was not possible that people on the island did not have any knowledge of what might have happened on the night of the murder"

"The source said may be they don't want to talk to police, as they do not want to have problems with an influential group.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

So you say even David and Hannah's friends, including the Mc Anna braggart, are afraid to come forward if they had noticed the "on this forum only" suspected killer of their friends?

If they weren't eye witnesses to the crime what do you think they would know for sure? Also, how do you know what they have or haven't said to the police? Now Sean, he likely does know something or he wouldn't have a stab wound to his forearm and Facebook posts so scared for his life.

What about everyone's Facebook missing Nov. 2014?

Not just Nov 2014, but September and October 2014 as well.