Thai Sales People With Perfect English

[Gerry290]

Hi

Is it possible to find Thai sales people with perfect english, and assertive personality, to do sales and business development lead generation on the phone into companies in Europe?

I know in India, there is lots of outbound call centres, with Indian people with perfect english, you are used to doing Telesales into Europe and USA, and in Philipines too.

See I moved to thailand this year, and I am setting up a thai company.

I have a small recruitment business in Europe, that I work remote from Thailand (call it Teleworking..the world now is a village with all the modern internet VOIP phones, and email etc).

Next year, when I am properly set up in Pattaya, I want to hire 1 or 2 people to start with who can call up qualified leads in Europe, and basically find hot leads for me to work on. (as in find out which companies need to recruit staff, and would be interested in using my services).

I intend to pay top dollar on salary and generous bonus, and will pay well to get sales people who are keen, and competitive, and very assertive, with perfect english.

I am guess as Pattaya is not far from BKK, I might be able to find some talent who would relocate here to Pattaya.

Has any experienced people, with business experience in Thailand, ever come across people based in Thailand who can do this type of work?

I just spent last 7 months up in Isan, so I know there is no one up there who fits the description!

Do such people exist in Thailand?

Are there any outbound telesales call centres in Thailand already, like they have in India and Philipines who call into USA and Europe?

One thing that sort of worries me is that sort of laid back "never mind" attitude.

I assumed well schooled sales people would not have that approach?

Naturally I would train them into my way of working.

Any feedback or has anyone ever experienced or come across the type of people i mention?

Thanks

Gerry

[samran]

In the nicest possible way: If a Thai is fluent in english, the last thing they'd be doing here is cold calling.

[mocean]

if you "intend to pay top dollar on salary and generous bonus", why don't hire foreigners? There are lots of them trying to find a job and you will find the qualified people more easy I guess.

[Gerry290]

In the nicest possible way: If a Thai is fluent in english, the last thing they'd be doing here is cold calling.

Eh? Seriously, how do you mean?

There would be more to it, that just say, doing call after call 8 hours a day. Not a boiler room cold call thing.

I mean, 1000s of people worldwide work in these types of jobs, why would thailand be any diffferent?

I though for a salary better, that offered locally, their surely would be some Thai people with experience who would be interested?

[Gerry290]

if you "intend to pay top dollar on salary and generous bonus", why don't hire foreigners? There are lots of them trying to find a job and you will find the qualified people more easy I guess.

Yes, I certainly would consider foreigner too!

However, would I not be opening a can of worms there, with Visa problems etc???

Like I intend to pay top rates, as in to what would be a premium salary on a thai salary scale,

not European salary rates. just to be clear on that.

For example I know a guy who has a London office and an office in India and he had no problems hiring 8 Indian guys with outbound sales experience and perfect english, who are calling into coroprations all over europe and pulling the sales leads in. all for local salary rate. India is so successful he is now taking on 100 in 2007, and getting a 24/7 operation calling into USA and Global.

I won't be moving to India, as I prefer Thailand alot better.

I thought there might have been more opportunity to get good Thai people etc...

Thanks for the info so far. anyone else??

[llothar]

Thanks for the info so far. anyone else??

First my personal opinion: All this telemarketing is spam and highly unethical. I hope you and all others are forced out of business soon. Germany already has anti-telemarketing laws.

Second, i doubt there are thais with excellent english language skills that work without a high fixed salary (like 50.000 Baht) and added Bonus. Even the persons i meet in university aren't fluent in conversation and all of them have a serious accent.

If they manage it to speak fluently they have other skills too and it is more likely that they have well paid translation jobs in huge companies or the government.

[Unknown]

Is it possible to find Thai sales people with perfect english, and assertive personality,

Yes there is quite a few.

But they won't be interested by that type of job.

[Dakhar]

Example,

My wife could fill that position. But I promise you she would not take the job. She obtained an MA out from America, and has 7 years of experience in America.... No I don't think you could afford her.

[younghusband]

In the nicest possible way: If a Thai is fluent in english, the last thing they'd be doing here is cold calling.

Eh? Seriously, how do you mean?

There would be more to it, that just say, doing call after call 8 hours a day. Not a boiler room cold call thing.

I mean, 1000s of people worldwide work in these types of jobs, why would thailand be any diffferent?

I though for a salary better, that offered locally, their surely would be some Thai people with experience who would be interested?

I think the point Samran is making, and it is one with which I fully agree, is that the number of Thais who speak "perfect English" is very very small.In my experience this tiny number is generally of a background which can afford a first class overseas education, and would not be interested in this type of job (for which I suspect "perfect English" is not necessary anyway.)

In fact even Thais who attend overseas universities, particularly the lower grade American colleges,usually come back to Thailand without having mastered the English language so that they cannot for example write a simple letter without many basic errors.I suspect this has something to do with the box ticking examination system of some second tier US colleges, as well as the tendency of Thais to stick together.

The only Thais who in my experience have perfect English, ie not detectable as a foreigner in a telephone conversation, are those who have not only been to good overseas universities but have also had a major part of their secondary education overseas as well.They normally can get any job they want on their return not only because of their language skills but also because as far as Western companies are concerned, they tend not to have the idleness, incompetence.absence of analytical ability and arrogance that afflicts so many home grown male middle class Thais seeking management positions.Thai women aren't nearly as feeble and many Western companies hire locally educated Thai women with excellent results.

[Crushdepth]

There are certainly plenty of people like this in Thailand, and we've had the good fortune to have a few come through our office, but don't expect them to be cheap - you won't get them for a local wage.

[Heng]

Plenty around. But I'd say most (myself included) are either running their own businesses or working for a fairly fat commission from legitimate exporting companies.

[younghusband]

Plenty around. But I'd say most (myself included) are either running their own businesses or working for a fairly fat commission from legitimate exporting companies.

You say there are plenty around but the evidence doesn't really support your contention.I'm afraid to say that Thais are not really qualified to decide whether they speak "perfect English" or not.In the same way, it's not really for farang to say whether they speak good Thai or not.That's a skill that only an educated Thai native speaker can pronounce on.

I have over many years had to vet hundreds of applications from Thais who have had university degrees from home and abroad or both.All claimed in their application forms that they had good English.Most were were however only adequate English speakers and very very far from perfect.Most could not write a business letter without many basic mistakes in grammar,spelling and syntax.

[Gerry290]

Thanks for all the various feedback.

Yes, I understand the top people with top Uni from say USA, probably would be going for corporate type positions, with ladder to middle management in international IT companies, Financial Co's in Bangkok etc.

This is B2B sales, is what we do, we do a very specifice niche within the IT sector, and provide staffing to a niche that need its. Its not Telemarketing spam like Lothar implies. Sure I agree, someone calling you up at dinner time trying to sell you a time share is quite annoying! That is most certainly not the type of job on offer. I am here to offer opportunity to people, a good job, training that people can take with them should they move on, and contribute jobs and tax to the Thai economy, and he hope I go out of business!! Thanks mate for the good wishes. some of us are here to give, not take.

We are in the corporate market place, and have many international blue chip clients as cutomers currently. plus a host of smaller companies in Ireland.

usually in Ireland and UK, it is 2nd tier grads that go for this sort of job. Indeed, when I started in recruitment/executive serach for a large UK company, I quick rose and became in the top 3 performers out of 300 people across europe, earning over 6 figures in euro. I was very thankful for the opportunity, when I looked in my bank account after my 1st year on the job.

I do believe from what other business people tell me, there are people out there in Thailand, who can do this job.

Probably for good people between high basic and bonus, once their broke in and buitl up experinece probably over 100,000 bhat monthly for a good performer.

Also I am sure I can find a good PA, who can suport my own sales work, and fax my proposals, emails, and answer the phone in english, but not do direct sales herself, update the web sites, and database etc.

A different type of job

Alot of our initial leads are not from cold calls, but warm calls generate to a response from fax marketing, our internet site etc. thats a lot easier.

I in Jan I will start to look any for people, and if I find none, I am sure I an go the more difficult route of issuing work permits to people from Indian or Philipinees, who would have better english and sales experience etc. of course I would rather give the opportunity to Thai people if I find any!!!

There seems to be plenty of Indian people in BKK, with good english, and assertive. I mean, look at those guys trying to sell you suits, indeed I know some of the large garment companies have these guys calling into europe and usa(I know one who does did this, and now has his own successful operation in Samui) , or in a good indian restaurant, their excellent at "up selling" you to order an extra dish, or beer or wine! LOL! God loves people who try!

Thanks again for the info, and indeed, open to more feedback if anyone got any.

Edited October 14, 2006 by Gerry290

[davidjtayler]

you could be looking in the wrong places .. I have many non uni educated Thai friends that speak perfect english ..... All have learnt their english from working in the Thai tourist industry amongst foreign people (learnt off the cuff so to speak) ... dive touts on boats, resorts, dive schools, travel agents etc....

Whether any of these people could be tempted to work in Bangkok or Pattaya is another question entirely .....

[Gerry290]

you could be looking in the wrong places .. I have many non uni educated Thai friends that speak perfect english ..... All have learnt their english from working in the Thai tourist industry amongst foreign people (learnt off the cuff so to speak) ... dive touts on boats, resorts, dive schools, travel agents etc....

Whether any of these people could be tempted to work in Bangkok or Pattaya is another question entirely .....

Hi David,

You know thats great feedback, and I was beginning to think the same myself. Your right!

These people could be great on the phone, with proper training and mentoring. and coachinig and management.

Someone else could be hired to type the emails.

I mean, not to be deogratory to any one, but from my own observations, plenty of girls with high school or less ( I lived in Isan so I know), come to pattaya, and unfortunately end up working in bars, and many seem to have picked up near perfect english and are street smart as hel_l, never mind charm.

I am beginning if you got a few of them, sent them to english school for a few months, educated them in computer skills, and sales training (which I am highly trained in myselfm and have many resources for training with me), and mirco managed and coached, they would make excellent telesales people. I mean their on the road 7 nights a week, trying to sell you to come into the bar!! and face massive rejection on an hourly basis!

This is the sort of stuff top sales people are made of, educated or non educated!

My own GF, never finished high school and in the past year, taught herself reasonable english to speak, but also to write. now its not perfect , but the progress she made "alone" with a basic CD and a english thai dictionary amazes me. when she is angry with me, she writes me these long letters in english! LOL! I speak to some thai girls on MSN who have Uni and work in companies in BKK, and my GF written english is better than the emails they send me!

any thanks, thats good feedback David.

[smartecosse]

speaking "reasonable" english and being good enough to get quality leads from a european buisiness are two entirely different things

why not hire farangs? that way you can have multi lingual staff that will still work for less than in europe

the old saying

pay peanuts get monkeys is still true and not exactly the best way for b2b sales is it?

[~G~]

Probably for good people between high basic and bonus, once their broke in and buitl up experinece probably over 100,000 bhat monthly for a good performer.

100K a month will certainly do the trick, unless the basic salary is too low. But you can get native English speakers in Bangkok for half that amount. There are plenty of English and American guys around teaching English, who will be OK with 50K-60K and legit WP. Who knows, some of them may even be good at sales

Also I am sure I can find a good PA, who can suport my own sales work, and fax my proposals, emails, and answer the phone in english, but not do direct sales herself, update the web sites, and database etc.

Thai PA with some experience, good english (studied abroad), expect to pay about 20K-30K baht. Reasonable English (can understand and communicate, but with many mistakes)? 15K-20K will be anough.

[Gerry290]

Yes certainly be open to frang people, if I can get work permit issued, and proper.

Yes, 50 - 60k I project could be easily earned. I d probably (once I do a bit more research etc) pay 50K on fix salary per month with generous bonus that could bring another 30 - 50K on top.

20-30K sounds good for a good sharp Thai PA, with good english. after all, I want to contribute something to thailand, re jobs etc, if I am living here.

In time once I learn a bit more about thailand, I will hire some experienced Thai people to do recruitment in Thailand for Thailand. (might steal a few rising stars out of Manpower/Addecco! LOL!!!)

But that move is further down the road.

[chuchok]

At those type of wages you could very well attract some good Thai people.

[~G~]

Yes certainly be open to frang people, if I can get work permit issued, and proper.

You need 2M baht in registered company capital per WP.

[smartecosse]

which costs 16k baht so not exactly a huge problem to overcome..........

[Gerry290]

Yes have company sorted already and set up.

Just a few things to do, and work out for new year, before hiring starts.

Currently making the sales myself, and doing nicely, just need more help on board.

[calibanjr.]

As you say, "the world is a village", properly run and set up, you don't even need Thailand-based reps. Just your preference, level of input/control? That's understandable.

[Gerry290]

As you say, "the world is a village", properly run and set up, you don't even need Thailand-based reps. Just your preference, level of input/control? That's understandable.

Yes, well I want to see what is being done, and coach/encourage the people to best performance to do best, and have them feel good about their jobs too.

Also I hate working alone, and want the "buzz" of an office.

Sure, I could give a list to an outbound place in Philipinees or India, or stick an add on elance.com and get a smaller operator to do it, or even I have a guy in Ireland, who has a telesales co, and when I need a bit of extra leads, he'd get his staff to do it for 125 euro a day.

This time, I want to know exactly whats happening when I am paying money, and help people do their best. Indeed those who show promise, could in time become fully fleged recruiters, as opposed to just lead generation.

Thats how I started....got a job in a large rec co, had to do the telesales/lead generation for the experience team, banging out the calls, and those who showed promise, were promoted to trainee recruitment consultant, which was the door open to the big bucks, and more fulfilling work.

And from being a "nice guy"/doing by bit for the betterment of society point of view, I am training people up with a sales skills that if they decided to leave after a year or twos service, they have a new skill and experience, that opens the door for them elsewhere.

[samran]

In the nicest possible way: If a Thai is fluent in english, the last thing they'd be doing here is cold calling.

Eh? Seriously, how do you mean?

There would be more to it, that just say, doing call after call 8 hours a day. Not a boiler room cold call thing.

I mean, 1000s of people worldwide work in these types of jobs, why would thailand be any diffferent?

I though for a salary better, that offered locally, their surely would be some Thai people with experience who would be interested?

I think the point Samran is making, and it is one with which I fully agree, is that the number of Thais who speak "perfect English" is very very small.In my experience this tiny number is generally of a background which can afford a first class overseas education, and would not be interested in this type of job (for which I suspect "perfect English" is not necessary anyway.)

In fact even Thais who attend overseas universities, particularly the lower grade American colleges,usually come back to Thailand without having mastered the English language so that they cannot for example write a simple letter without many basic errors.I suspect this has something to do with the box ticking examination system of some second tier US colleges, as well as the tendency of Thais to stick together.

The only Thais who in my experience have perfect English, ie not detectable as a foreigner in a telephone conversation, are those who have not only been to good overseas universities but have also had a major part of their secondary education overseas as well.They normally can get any job they want on their return not only because of their language skills but also because as far as Western companies are concerned, they tend not to have the idleness, incompetence.absence of analytical ability and arrogance that afflicts so many home grown male middle class Thais seeking management positions.Thai women aren't nearly as feeble and many Western companies hire locally educated Thai women with excellent results.

My point exactly. In addition, they tend to come from quite well off families, so if they haven't already got their career planned for them, the tend to gravitate to some pretty well known multinationals here.

Then there is image and staus of a role. Working at Standard Chartered on Sathorn Rd is going to win out every time over being based in Patters. The company I work for (a multi national) falls over itself to hire good English speakers, is based in one of the best complexes in BKK, pays well, and it is still a struggle, with positions going vacant for months at a time till they get someone with the right language level.

Someone did make the suggestion though of targeting staff from the tourism sector. I think you'll find some more luck there, but the English may not be up to what you want.

[Gerry290]

In the nicest possible way: If a Thai is fluent in english, the last thing they'd be doing here is cold calling.

Eh? Seriously, how do you mean?

There would be more to it, that just say, doing call after call 8 hours a day. Not a boiler room cold call thing.

I mean, 1000s of people worldwide work in these types of jobs, why would thailand be any diffferent?

I though for a salary better, that offered locally, their surely would be some Thai people with experience who would be interested?

I think the point Samran is making, and it is one with which I fully agree, is that the number of Thais who speak "perfect English" is very very small.In my experience this tiny number is generally of a background which can afford a first class overseas education, and would not be interested in this type of job (for which I suspect "perfect English" is not necessary anyway.)

In fact even Thais who attend overseas universities, particularly the lower grade American colleges,usually come back to Thailand without having mastered the English language so that they cannot for example write a simple letter without many basic errors.I suspect this has something to do with the box ticking examination system of some second tier US colleges, as well as the tendency of Thais to stick together.

The only Thais who in my experience have perfect English, ie not detectable as a foreigner in a telephone conversation, are those who have not only been to good overseas universities but have also had a major part of their secondary education overseas as well.They normally can get any job they want on their return not only because of their language skills but also because as far as Western companies are concerned, they tend not to have the idleness, incompetence.absence of analytical ability and arrogance that afflicts so many home grown male middle class Thais seeking management positions.Thai women aren't nearly as feeble and many Western companies hire locally educated Thai women with excellent results.

My point exactly. In addition, they tend to come from quite well off families, so if they haven't already got their career planned for them, the tend to gravitate to some pretty well known multinationals here.

Then there is image and staus of a role. Working at Standard Chartered on Sathorn Rd is going to win out every time over being based in Patters. The company I work for (a multi national) falls over itself to hire good English speakers, is based in one of the best complexes in BKK, pays well, and it is still a struggle, with positions going vacant for months at a time till they get someone with the right language level.

Someone did make the suggestion though of targeting staff from the tourism sector. I think you'll find some more luck there, but the English may not be up to what you want.

Yes, well to be honest, perfect Queens English would not be need. I mean, I do not have it myself, but a heavy regional semi northern ireland accent. nearly as bad as a Geordie one! LOL! Indeed if I speak fast, many americans have problems understanding me. I spoke to some thai people tonight, who had passable english, and I am sure the tourism sector might offer a better level of english, and probably the people I need.

As I said, when I finished university and I went to uni in both canada and ireland, for some reason I was passed over for all the corporate top level jobs for grads(probably my accent!) ....the banks, the top blue chips, and ended up in sales, and later recruitment, via telesales for a recruiment company. They hired motivated people from all walks of life, from grads through to ex taxi drivers...and we all ended up making about 3 time the salary over our corporate college buddies who got the "prestigious" jobs with the blue chips corporations. probably had alot more fun, with prizes for targets hit, though we did work 12 hours a day, and it was push push push! one of the guys who started the company was an ex hospital porter from Bristol, the other was from a council estate in london....both are on the Sunday Times Rich list worth over 80 million sterling each now.

If I can find someone with reasonable english, but a pure hunger for success, regardless of college or not....thats the right type.

Anyway time will tell when we get working on this.

Edited October 14, 2006 by Gerry290

[Heng]

Plenty around. But I'd say most (myself included) are either running their own businesses or working for a fairly fat commission from legitimate exporting companies.

You say there are plenty around but the evidence doesn't really support your contention.I'm afraid to say that Thais are not really qualified to decide whether they speak "perfect English" or not.

The Thais who are born and raised in English speaking countries and grow up speaking English as their first language are in my opinion qualified to say they speak "perfect English" (probably better to say fluent anyway). What kind of evidence are you looking for?

True, 'plenty' is also a relative term. The numbers are probably less than a hundred thousand Thais (with a complete set of Thai parents) who speak English as their first language, as opposed to say overseas Chinese that number in the 20-30 millions who speak English as their first language. A more accurate figure could probably be obtained with a little research that I don't care to do.

[younghusband]

Plenty around. But I'd say most (myself included) are either running their own businesses or working for a fairly fat commission from legitimate exporting companies.

You say there are plenty around but the evidence doesn't really support your contention.I'm afraid to say that Thais are not really qualified to decide whether they speak "perfect English" or not.

The Thais who are born and raised in English speaking countries and grow up speaking English as their first language are in my opinion qualified to say they speak "perfect English" (probably better to say fluent anyway). What kind of evidence are you looking for?

True, 'plenty' is also a relative term. The numbers are probably less than a hundred thousand Thais (with a complete set of Thai parents) who speak English as their first language, as opposed to say overseas Chinese that number in the 20-30 millions who speak English as their first language. A more accurate figure could probably be obtained with a little research that I don't care to do.

Yes I agree that Thais born and raised in English speaking countries could describe themselves as speaking fluently, though I think your estimate of c.100,000 is way on the high side if we are talking about those back in Thailand.I would exclude almost all Thais born and raised in LA since their English is usually execrable."Perfect English" is a rather different matter and one would have to know more about the length of time spent in the country concerned as well as the educational and perhaps social background.There are after all millions of native born Englishmen and Americans who don't speak "perfect English" and I'm not talking about regional accents which are not that relevant.

[Heng]

... a bit too slow on the edit there. Instead of just English, I'd also like to include Thais who speak 'any number of languages other than Thai' as their first language. Just happened to think of a couple of cousins who speak German as their first language as well.... parents went off to Germany to study dentistry of all things, set up a practice, had kids, raised them and then finally moved back to Thailand in retirement. The formula is often similar (for mine it was Texas, kids, a number of small businesses, then retirement back home to Thailand). In business, I often run across these types as well as the more common 'sent overseas' in their teens and late teens for secondary and undergrad education type Thais. The latter typically don't absorb much language wise, but there are plenty of exceptions as well and in all skill levels. For example some couldn't handle real time customer service on the phone but could easily handle a hundred customer emails and dozens of proforma invoices per day in whatever language they had been immersed in. In my experience, the workload rarely exceeds the point where business families have to get 'outside' help, hence the lack of public exposure/"evidence" (and employment in non family companies and businesses) of these folks.

[Heng]

Plenty around. But I'd say most (myself included) are either running their own businesses or working for a fairly fat commission from legitimate exporting companies.

You say there are plenty around but the evidence doesn't really support your contention.I'm afraid to say that Thais are not really qualified to decide whether they speak "perfect English" or not.

The Thais who are born and raised in English speaking countries and grow up speaking English as their first language are in my opinion qualified to say they speak "perfect English" (probably better to say fluent anyway). What kind of evidence are you looking for?

True, 'plenty' is also a relative term. The numbers are probably less than a hundred thousand Thais (with a complete set of Thai parents) who speak English as their first language, as opposed to say overseas Chinese that number in the 20-30 millions who speak English as their first language. A more accurate figure could probably be obtained with a little research that I don't care to do.

Yes I agree that Thais born and raised in English speaking countries could describe themselves as speaking fluently, though I think your estimate of c.100,000 is way on the high side if we are talking about those back in Thailand.

I was just thinking my estimate was on the low side. So we have differing opinions.

But yes, many live between two countries in the same way that many Thais live between the north/Issan/the south and Bangkok. For myself, I'm usually 1-2 months stateside 9-10 months in Thailand per year.... so even I would not be in the "back in Thailand" group depending on when you caught me.