Problem with PSI signal after changing to large dish and new transponder

[Dumbastheycome]

We are having problems with signal breaks after being convinced to changed to a large dish for an increased channel choice. Installer has been several times, changed transponders , retuned etc. Problem remains with constant image and audio hesitations lasting 1 or 2 seconds. Otherwise the picture is very sharp and better than the old small dish reception which never had the hesitation problem.

As pleasant as he is to deal with the Installer is only that. His tech knowledge is obviously too limited to find a solution other than to replace and retune. Does anyone know of the problem may be in the set top box tuning rather than the dish setup? The set top box is a "Mini" AD 562. set to recieve PSI. A second system upstairs running IPM is faultless. Same installer.

[lopburi3]

Have you tried switch of box upstairs to downstairs? If IPM box works OK downstairs I would replace whatever it is you are currently using with a real PSI box. You have changed to C band open mesh type antenna? Or just a large Ku band solid dish? For more channels you normally change to C band.

I can not find any Google result in your mini ad 562 name - it is designed to both Ku and C band use?

[RichCor]

This usually is an issue with Signal Level and Signal Quality getting to the Set Top Box.

As lopburi3 suggested, try swapping the boxes with each other and see what happens.

If the problem goes with the set top box, then that's where the issue is.

If the problem stays with the cable run, then that's where the issue is.

Also as lopburi questions, did you convert from Ku-band to C-band (and swap-out the LNB on the dish), or just upgrade to a larger Ku-band dish?

And if you have TWO Set Top Boxes on the same dish, how is this run?

• Single LNB using a signal splitter (and has issues selecting H/V signal feeds)
• LNB with dual F-connectors (independently accessing H/V signal feeds)

Is the cable running to the PSI "Mini" AD 562 have a good, short cable run?

[Gonsalviz]

I had a similar problem when it was connected with the cable connection. The came back and connected it with HDMI cable and never again did I have a problem.

[RichCor]

I had a similar problem when it was connected with the cable connection. The came back and connected it with HDMI cable and never again did I have a problem.

No idea how that would have solved a mpeg signal/quality related image and audio hesitations.

An HDMI cable will give you better quality to the set and allow the set to render pure digital, but if the tuner/receiver/source has data dropouts due to SNR or QAM quality issues, then the issue is with the source signal cable or the set top box.

[Dumbastheycome]

Have you tried switch of box upstairs to downstairs? If IPM box works OK downstairs I would replace whatever it is you are currently using with a real PSI box. You have changed to C band open mesh type antenna? Or just a large Ku band solid dish? For more channels you normally change to C band.

I can not find any Google result in your mini ad 562 name - it is designed to both Ku and C band use?

Yes, is an open mesh c band. And ok, I take the point with the mini box....although it was fine with the small dish. Will try both, but the IPM replace a real PSI upstairs so will swap that first.

[Dumbastheycome]

This usually is an issue with Signal Level and Signal Quality getting to the Set Top Box.

As lopburi3 suggested, try swapping the boxes with each other and see what happens.

If the problem goes with the set top box, then that's where the issue is.

If the problem stays with the cable run, then that's where the issue is.

Also as lopburi questions, did you convert from Ku-band to C-band (and swap-out the LNB on the dish), or just upgrade to a larger Ku-band dish?

And if you have TWO Set Top Boxes on the same dish, how is this run?

• Single LNB using a signal splitter (and has issues selecting H/V signal feeds)
• LNB with dual F-connectors (independently accessing H/V signal feeds)

Is the cable running to the PSI "Mini" AD 562 have a good, short cable run?

The two are on sepearate dishes and cables. It was only the dish on the downstairs that was changed. Have a spare PSI box made redundant upstairs so will plug that in downstairs . The downstairs cable is a short run but not hd rated. Upstairs was installed with hd previously. Now you both have made the suggestion I am thinking it will likely be the box. If not will upgrade cable. I actually don't watch telvision much but the interruptions and ensuing evil mutterings from my wife that likes her soaps make it a joint problem. Cheers. Will come back with outcomes.

[lopburi3]

So it is the downstairs on a new C-band mesh antenna? Is anything blocking direct line to satellite by any chance? Now that you have stated different antennas all bets are off - totally changes things. It could very well be the antenna or LNA or cable run or the box. But do try the other box and see if that works.

[RichCor]

There is no such thing as HD rated cable.

It would be helpful if you described your exact setup, and what changed. It's fine if you don't know. But it would be nice if you were detailed in your description.

So, you started off with a Ku-band -sized reflector dish, a Ku-band LNB with a short-run cable going directly into your downstairs 'Mini' PSI Satellite Set Top Box. You were told you'd receive more channels by going to a larger dish, so...

a. got a bigger Ku-band dish

b. swapped out the Ku-band dish for a larger (what size?) C-band dish, but still using the Ku-band LNB

c. swapped out for the C-band dish and C-band LNB (as that's where the more channels are)

d. some version of the above

e. some other version than the above

As Lopburi3 stated, does the new dish have a clear view of the sky, or some obstacles?

When you pull up the Signal Level / Signal Quality button on the Set Top Box, what does it read?

It might help a bit understand how Digital Video Broadcast Satellite Systems work,

Since media content was switched over to DIGITAL, many channels can be digitally stream together as one signal, well a Wide Signal, that a Satellite can receive and send back to Earth over a Transponder Frequency. Your Satellite Dish collect as much of the satellite signal as it's size allows and reflects/bounces it into a device called an LNB, a Low Noise microware signal amplifier Block downconverter that received the signals from multiple transponders on the same satellite (or satellite group) then down converts the block of signals to a lower frequency that can be carried over normal shielded coaxial signal cable, then on to your Set Top Box.

Not all satellite transponders are equal, and the output signal can vary. Some are designed as spot beams, some are broad beams, covering an entire continent, some only certain countries/nations. The operators of the satellite will sometimes limit the power output of some transponders to keep the drain on satellite resources low. So, some groups of channels that have been mixed together to ride the same transponder stream may be weaker that other transponder streams. All the channels carried on that stream will be affected.

Because it's possible to double the amount of signals sent at the same frequency if a signal is sent with a Vertical or Horizontal alignment, the satellite can actually send TWO signal feeds that don't interfere with each other. On your Dish, the LNB is designed with antennas to pick up either the Vertical or Horizontal aligned signal feed. Unfortunately, the shielded coaxial cable can only carry ONE of those feeds at a time. So either TWO cables are used, or a single cable is used and the LNB on the dish selects either the Vertical or the Horizontal feed as necessary.

The satellite Set Top Box received the whole block of signals from the LNB (either the Vertical block, or the Horizontal block), Tunes one transponder frequency and decodes the digital stream containing the mixed stream of channels it contains. The Set Top Box then digitally detects and pulls out only the digital content of one channel at a time and decodes the Video, multiple channel Audio, and Data (maybe Subtitles or whatever) and attempts to render that as something your TV can work with.

If the Signal isn't overly strong, or the quality of the digital QAM encoding isn't clear then the Set Top Box chips won't be able to decode and present you with Video and Audio ... and usually the box will just pause the picture and wait for better information and try again (rather than render the 'noise').

Signal and QAM Quality issues can be caused by anything that directly comes into contact with the originating signal. Satellite dish reflector out of shape, dish reflector out of focus (too near/far), LNB is not oriented for great Horizontal/Vertical separation alignment, LNB is mounted off center, LNB is off angle to center, LNB has a weak amplifier stage, LNB need is scalar ring adjusted near/far, the F-connectors are making a poor connection on the coaxial signal cable, the coaxial signal cable is poor quality or has 'loss' due to too many 'connectors' between the LNB and the Set Top Box, the Set Top Box doesn't do a good job dealing with low-quality signal issues... so on and so forth.

I recently had an issue with my IPM Set Top Box, where TWO transponders and the channels carried on them just couldn't be detected by the tuner/receiver. It looked like the satellite just stopped sending on those two transponders, all the other channels on other transponders worked fine. Turned out it was just a slight tweak of my Ku-band LNB mounted on a C-band dish caused by a large overnight storm ...just enough of a offset of the Ku-band LNB that the lower signal strength transponders just dropped out as far as the IPM receiver was concerned. I set the IPM receiver on one of the missing channels and carefully moved the Ku-band LNB around and notice I'd only get those special subscription channels if the Ku-band LNB was only in the exact certain position. The other streamed channels on other transponders on the same satellite came in great no matter where the LNB was positioned. Arghhh!

It took me 6-months to identify the issue. But it could have just as well have been picture freezing/pausing. Though with that I would have known to quickly go through all the above system components and tried to align/tweak to maximize the signal until that was fixed.

Anyway, probably tl;dr

[Dumbastheycome]

Ok. I have replace the "mini" set topbox with the previously made redundant PSI unit. Problem solved.My thinking is that the PSI box is designed to auto cope with either KU or C Band input. The "Mini" box has some more user friendly features in that it has manual buttons as well as remote function ( that being helpful when the remote is in location unkwown).

The new dish is C Band mesh to replace a small KU. Signal strength 97 %

The problem may be that the "Mini" needs to be reset to C Band. HOWEVER the remote, the onscreen menu, and the user booklet are all in Thai only. Non tech translations from my wife have not helped me to find any English language alternatives.

In any case the problem has been resolved. In time I may try again with the "Mini" unit and try to find if it can or needs a reset.

I am not a "tech" person but I do try to find logical solutions.

Interesting that you have added that there is no such thing as HD cable. That is in contradiction to comments by the installer who mentioned that the existing cable upstairs was HD rated while the older existing cable downstairs was not.

In the event that it is not an issue it matters not except for the fact that the installer may have been clutching at straws for a solution. ( and a little income).

But thanks for your input and suggestions.

And also for the other members who initially made suggestions that gave me cause to consider alternatives to a problem solely with the dish.

Maybe the solution is not "usual" but Murhpy's Law "usuallY' wins !

[lopburi3]

By cable upstairs and downstairs are you talking about the coax from antenna or the feed to TV set from the satellite box? Indeed the HDMI will provide a better viewing experience if your box can actually tune HD channels than the old RCA audio L/R and video was are used to using for laser disk playback. But this is just from box to TV - the same coax from antenna is run for SD and HD reception.

[Dumbastheycome]

By cable upstairs and downstairs are you talking about the coax from antenna or the feed to TV set from the satellite box? Indeed the HDMI will provide a better viewing experience if your box can actually tune HD channels than the old RCA audio L/R and video was are used to using for laser disk playback. But this is just from box to TV - the same coax from antenna is run for SD and HD reception.

Cheers. Yes. Am talking coax. Now aware is same same. But also thought there is a difference in coax Ohm( ?) ratings. This is not relevant ?

[lopburi3]

There are different grades of coax but for normal home reception it should not be a factor - but as you seem to have Ku band upstairs suspect they may feel the Ku band is HD and downstairs only SD, but actually C-band is also used for HD and works fine.

[Dumbastheycome]

There are different grades of coax but for normal home reception it should not be a factor - but as you seem to have Ku band upstairs suspect they may feel the Ku band is HD and downstairs only SD, but actually C-band is also used for HD and works fine.

Ok, understood. But the problem seems to be overcome by switching boxes .

Thanks for your heads up.