Comfortable on 65k baht?

[TheAppletons]

If you are referring to USA Social Security, I would advise waiting until full retirement age (67 for those of us born 1960 and later) to start collecting, if that fits your plans.

Starting the benefit at age 62 results in ~ 30% reduction vs collecting at full retirement age.

Yes that is true, but the $90,000 you make between age 62 and 67 is a lot. And if you pass away before age 67 taking the benefit early will be the smart move. For me social security will be a relatively small part of other retirement income (military retirement, government civilian pension, 401K, and social security). Not sure what I will choose but I am leaning on taking social security as soon as I am eligible due to future uncertainty of the program given the U.S. governments crazy national debt and never ending deficit spending habits.

Many of the analyses I've seen put the break-even point at 77 years of age. That is, if you don't think you'll live beyond age 77, you will come out ahead by taking SS benefits early. After age 77, you would have been better off waiting to take the full benefits. (These analyses generally don't factor in inflation/COLA so if that's inordinately large in future years then the break-even age would move forward.)

[CLW]

You'll grow bored with eating street food all the time and learn about some of the gross shortcuts used to make it. What's in those fishballs and "broth"? You don't want to know.

indeed. we never touch street food........Borax, Formalin, dangerous pesticides, re-used cooking oil washed in bleach.......etc., etc.....not worth the risk.

Excuse me, where did you get these BS from?

Are you from the US?

If yes, how about GMO soybeans and corn, chlorine washed chicken, tenderised meat, food additives, fake meat. The list could go on.

If you have some common sense you can choose your vendor for street food.

If you can speak a little Thai, you can tell him please less oil, sugar, MSG.

I'm living here since 2,5 years and never got food poisoning from street food.

Also the occasions I ate western food I can count on one hand simply because it's overpriced and not tasty.

If I want to eat I cook by myself.

BTW, the worst food poisoning I got in a 4 star hotel in Germany from frozen strawberries from China. I was infected with noro virus and spent two days in hospital.

Enough said.

[mgjackson69]

OP, 65K and single you can definitely live in CM on that. Of course, it depends on how much you spend on the ladies here.

If you have the resources, it's probably better to have 500K baht on deposit for medical emergencies here. After all, medical insurance companies are adept at weaseling out of claims.

Depending on your preferences, you can rent anywhere between 5K and 15K baht/month. Many landlords are desperate for good long-term tenants. Whatever you do, DON'T get tempted to buy.

You can get a good secondhand scooter with low mileage for 20-25K baht. Try bahtsold or Thai Visa classified. The only way to get around CM proper.

Plenty of ethnic cuisines to choose from here. Good luck.

why would you encourage anyone to buy a motorcycle?? that is really irresponsible.

Why do you say that is irresponsible?

Some people live their lives trying to avoid anything that might be considered 'dangerous.' And there is no question about the fact that riding a motorcycle can be dangerous, especially here in Thailand. As a rider for almost 50 years, I'll be the first to say that Thailand isn't the place for an inexperienced rider. But for someone who knows what they are doing, the safety factor increases exponentially. However...

... there is a limit... a line to draw... where 'safety' competes with 'enjoyable living.' Just how much 'living' does one need to give up before life loses its value?

Don't ride motorcycles, don't eat street foods, don't venture off known roads, don't eat red meat, don't eat soy products, don't buy foods from local Thai markets, don't swim in local lakes, don't do this, don't do that.... all in the name of "security."

There was a very famous woman... She was blind, she was deaf, and she was fearless.... her name was Helen Keller. And she said:

"Security is mostly a superstition. Security does

not exist in nature, nor do the children of men

as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no

safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."

And ain't that the Goddamn truth!

I have been riding for 40+ years, and (knock on wood) have never crashed on the street/road (spills are expected when riding off-road...I have had a few, fortunately none serious).

For those of you who want to pull out that tired line about "two types of riders; those who have crashed and those who will", save the effort. That line is bullshit.

I accept that I *may* crash...I refuse to accept that it is a given that I *will* crash.

Some of the funnest riding I have experienced was on my 125 Tiger in Bangkok. I realize that type of riding is not for everyone, but I sure enjoyed it.

Everyone has their own comfort level.

[CLW]

OP, 65K and single you can definitely live in CM on that. Of course, it depends on how much you spend on the ladies here.

If you have the resources, it's probably better to have 500K baht on deposit for medical emergencies here. After all, medical insurance companies are adept at weaseling out of claims.

Depending on your preferences, you can rent anywhere between 5K and 15K baht/month. Many landlords are desperate for good long-term tenants. Whatever you do, DON'T get tempted to buy.

You can get a good secondhand scooter with low mileage for 20-25K baht. Try bahtsold or Thai Visa classified. The only way to get around CM proper.

Plenty of ethnic cuisines to choose from here. Good luck.

why would you encourage anyone to buy a motorcycle?? that is really irresponsible.

Why do you say that is irresponsible?

Some people live their lives trying to avoid anything that might be considered 'dangerous.' And there is no question about the fact that riding a motorcycle can be dangerous, especially here in Thailand. As a rider for almost 50 years, I'll be the first to say that Thailand isn't the place for an inexperienced rider. But for someone who knows what they are doing, the safety factor increases exponentially. However...

... there is a limit... a line to draw... where 'safety' competes with 'enjoyable living.' Just how much 'living' does one need to give up before life loses its value?

Don't ride motorcycles, don't eat street foods, don't venture off known roads, don't eat red meat, don't eat soy products, don't buy foods from local Thai markets, don't swim in local lakes, don't do this, don't do that.... all in the name of "security."

There was a very famous woman... She was blind, she was deaf, and she was fearless.... her name was Helen Keller. And she said:

"Security is mostly a superstition. Security does

not exist in nature, nor do the children of men

as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no

safer in the long run than outright exposure.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."

And ain't that the Goddamn truth!

I have been riding for 40+ years, and (knock on wood) have never crashed on the street/road (spills are expected when riding off-road...I have had a few, fortunately none serious).

For those of you who want to pull out that tired line about "two types of riders; those who have crashed and those who will", save the effort. That line is bullshit.

I accept that I *may* crash...I refuse to accept that it is a given that I *will* crash.

Some of the funnest riding I have experienced was on my 125 Tiger in Bangkok. I realize that type of riding is not for everyone, but I sure enjoyed it.

Everyone has their own comfort level.

Agree with that, just coming back from a 1000km ride BKK to Nong Khai.

The persons trying to talk bad about riding a motorcycle actually never sat on one.

[farangmick]

Thank you all. Love to here more please chime in.

cyberfarang, luckily I'm not on a "just enough money budget" I just want to get by on my monthly retirement check so I don't have to dip into my savings. If social security is still available I'll collect that at 62.

From my research I believe I'll be able to fund a decent studio apartment, eat well, lite travel around Thailand & health insurance and a little extra to boot. All on my retirement check alone 65k baht.

I hope I'm not wrong and can leave my saving alone.

I'm leaning on renting my house out just in case.

Hi. 65,000 baht should be plenty.

For the income requirement for a retirement extension Immigration want a gross figure. So if your pension is taxed in the US, the tax paid can still be included in your income. So can any rental income from a property in the US, and any returns on investments. So you seem well covered against any exchange rate fluctuations.

Learn to spot the trolls, and you can still get decent considered advice on TV.

Good luck in your new life.

[Daryle]

I have many friends there now...

the complain about:

1. people

2. traffic

3. weather

4. sex tourists

*NOTE: None of these answers are , "lack of funds"

While the sex tourist complains about people, traffic and weather all with a smile on there face.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MaeJoMTB]

Yeah, good point above about how long your home in the U.S. can be unoccupied before your homeowners insurance considers it abandoned. We had friends who would go to Florida every winter and leave their adult daughter to look in on their place. She wasn't very faithful about the chore. One year the furnace failed pipes froze and there was major water damage -- major damage. Their insurance didn't pay.

The guy that was victim of this worked for us part-time in the summer at our nursery greenhouse/business nearby. When it came time for us to move to Thailand we hadn't yet sold the property, a 20 acre "farmette" that had once been a much bigger farm sold off for suburban development, with the pretty outbuildings, stately barn and old-style farmhouse remaining with some farmland and a 10 acre wood lot. We had sold and removed all equipment related to the former greenhouse/nursery operation, so it was suitable for someone looking to to become a hobby farmer and keep their day job. (and it was zoned to permit livestock)

It our case it would have been stupid to hold onto this property and try to rent it out. As it was, we keep the nursery/greenhouse business alive on paper for the IRS so we could continue to pay the guy (whose house had been the victim of the frozen pipe and couldn't afford to go to Florida that year) to come to our place EVERY day to walk thru ALL the buildings, looking for signs that people had entered, animal damage, broken pipes, etc. And he had to mow the grass and keep the drives clear of snow so the place looked like it was occupied and easy for the real estate agents to show it. Fortunately, he was good at this task, but we paid him nicely to do it. For us, we still would have had to pay someone like him to serve as a manager if we'd tried to rent it and people don't want to rent this type of property. Or if they do, they just want to pay the market price for the house and not the other associated stuff, which they'd still want to use.

We came over here just ahead of the global crash in 2008-2009 so it took a few price cuts and time to sell the property but it's nice to be done with it. And it's nice to follow the antics of the young family who bought the place on Facebook, home schooling their pack of kids, raising goats, pigs and various vegetables that they sell at local farmers markets. (I wonder how much academic time those kids get?) with dad constantly building and adding on to outbuildings and mom always baking in the nice kitchen. It's good to see a family in the place.

Totally off topic, but a great and interesting story Nancy.

I enjoyed reading it.

Thanks for posting that one.

Edited January 19, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[RedQualia]

Everyone has an opinion, and lots of them here already. I'll add another to the pile...

Family of four here, half foreign, half Thai, with both kids grown now. I think our monthly expenses run about 40-45,000 on average. This is just the house, food (sometimes in, sometimes out, sometimes cooked at home, sometimes bought at the local market -- is that "street food?"), electricity, clothing, water, entertainment, etc. It doesn't include outlier expenses such as the occasional new motorcycle, auto/motorcycle maintenance, bar runs, coin operated girlfriends, annual health/vehicle insurance, vehicle licensing, vehicle accidents, university costs, trips either around Thailand or back to the states, etc. So your 65K should be plenty for you and perhaps even another, but ration it... Put a bit aside each month for the annual health insurance payment, that trip back to the states, etc.

We own a home outside Chiang Mai. There are plenty of homes around for anywhere from 5,000 Baht per month up (I recall seeing a one bedroom bungalow not so long ago for 3,500 Baht per month that seemed fairly adequate to me. About 20KM outside Chiang Mai). A decent western style home can sometimes be had for 10,000 per month, and are readily available for 15,000 per month, fully furnished. 25,000 per month would get you a 2,000 sq. ft. two story something or other. So it's not strictly necessary to live in an expensive 30-40 sq. meter "condo" (hotel room?) in the city.

About Chiang Mai: Ya, you can live here and be happy. But you're single and so I would think rather portable. You might want to spend 3-6 months in Chiang Mai, 3-6 months in Udon Thani, and the same in a few other areas such as Chiang Rai, Loei, Ubon Ratchathani, Petchabun, etc. Lots of places in Thailand where one might stay and be happy, and perhaps happier than in Chiang Mai. I don't really know your preferences for city life vs country, but suggest you try out a few different areas.

If you have experience on a motorcycle, that might be a good way to go. You should be able to get something second hand that's at least adequate (250cc up) for 100,000 Baht, depending on age, engine size, kilometers, etc. You should also be able to find at least a decent car second hand for 100-150,000 Baht, though might have to wait a bit and shop around carefully. (Cheaper cars are around as well, but they tend to be fairly well used up. And a new Nissan March econobox can be had for about 400K, last time I checked.) Pros and cons re: motorcycles vs. cars. Traffic in Chiang Mai is kinda horrible these days, and I imagine it will only get worse. I hate taking my pickup truck anywhere and usually don't. Bought it new. It's now six years old, and has only gone 35,000KM. Too easy to have an accident in the thing, and too difficult to actually go anywhere. I much prefer the motorcycle, but I've been riding more than 40 years, I'm not a hotrodder, etc., etc. I personally feel much safer on the motorcycle than I do in a car or truck; "safer" as in "less likely to have an accident of any kind." Of course, if I (or anyone) accidents on a motorcycle tend to be much less forgiving than accidents in a car. Otherwise, no A/C on a motorcycle. It can get hot and sweaty out there. You also can't carry so much on a motorcycle, compared to a car. Maybe important if it's your only transportation. But then, I can make 3-4 trips to Tesco Lotus on the motorcycle in the time it takes me to make one in the truck. So, tradeoffs? If you take my advice and try to live in multiple locations over time, you'll probably have at least a bit of stuff to move, too, so a car might be much preferred.

As others mention, savings in a local bank is important. A couple of million, minimum, for those things you don't plan for.

Can't tell you what to do with any house in the states. Too many gozintas, such as 1. Is there a mortgage? How much are payments? 2. How much is home owner's insurance? 3. How much are property taxes? 4. How much can you rent it for? $100? $500? $1,000? More? Who will manage it for you if you choose to rent it out? How much will they charge you for that trouble? 6. How will you pay for ordinary and also unexpected maintenance needs? 7. How much crap is currently in the house, that might need to be stored elsewhere? (NOW is an excellent time for you to start getting rid of stuff, if you haven't already!) What to do with any house on the other side of the world is just kind of a big problem to consider, and you're the only one who can do that. Personally, I sold my house in the states. Seemed like just too big a boat anchor. I can always buy another should I ever decide to return to live there, which seems pretty unlikely.

Anyway, enough. Just more thoughts for you to add to the pile. Have fun.

[LannaGuy]

65k is enough but not sure I'd agree with the 'must have insurance' brigade as stroke, cancer insurance is very high here and accident insurance may be worth it. many of my friends keep 1m or more in the bank for those type of things. maybe I am out of touch but i think those policies are around 50k a year? and are fairly limited? anyway 65k is about the average need for a good life here good luck and have fun.

[RedQualia]

65k is enough but not sure I'd agree with the 'must have insurance' brigade as stroke, cancer insurance is very high here and accident insurance may be worth it. many of my friends keep 1m or more in the bank for those type of things. maybe I am out of touch but i think those policies are around 50k a year? and are fairly limited? anyway 65k is about the average need for a good life here good luck and have fun.

Cost of coverage varies with applicant's age and the insurance company. I pay about 45,000 per year for my wife and I, for inpatient needs (visits to the doctor's office are pretty reasonable, and dirt cheap in Thai government hospitals). The policy covers lots of stuff. Only limitations I can think of off the top of my head is that coverage in the US is specifically excluded, and radiation/chemo is limited to a one time payment, maximum of (I think) 400,000 Baht. Policy rates are also a bit lower because it's tailored for hospitals outside Bangkok. Hospital costs in BKK tend to be about 20-30% more than in Chiang Mai, Udon Thani, et al. My share of the annual health insurance expense is about 30,000 Baht (age 63), while my wife's share is 15,000 Baht (age 48). We've both used the insurance a time or two... Myself for kidney stone removal, my wife for bad stomach problems. Different hospitals, if that matters. Interesting that my wife also gets "unemployment insurance" when hospitalized. She doesn't work outside the home, but was still paid 500 Baht per day for being hospitalized. Kinda cool, I think. Disappointed that I don't receive the same!

The 45,000 Baht total cost at current exchange rates translates to $1,250US, per year. That's peanuts, and especially compared to the rather extreme price gouging that's currently going on in the states. I doubt anyone in the US could get coverage anywhere near as good as we have here for even $1,250 per month. Drug prices in the states are also way out of control, and it's increasingly common to hear people there complain about very high prescription deductibles, like they have to pay the first $3,000 or $5,000 before insurance even starts to pay. I don't know how people there manage. Even generic drug prices are high and going higher. (I had to buy generic amoxicillin in the states a year or so ago for a sinus infection. Of course, pharmacies there can't sell antibiotics over the counter, so I had to get a doctor's prescription. So I had to find a doctor somewhere accepting new patients. I finally found a nurse practitioner who could prescribe it, at a cost of $35 to visit her poor people countryside establishment. The generic amoxicillin itself was fairly harsh, and cost $15, as I recall. So... Final, total stateside price for that amoxicillin: $50US. A 10 pack of 500mg amoxicillin tablets in Thailand typically runs about 150 Baht -- presently equal to $4.16US.)

So, a single guy age 63 can get health insurance like mine for about 30,000 Baht. That's about $830US, for a year's coverage. But he would pay a bit less because he's younger. Maybe $700-750US. (Kaiser Permanente in California wanted $700 per month for basic coverage for an individual 56 year old guy seven years ago. Lord knows what it might be now.).

It's also the case that OP is under 60 years of age. As one ages to 60 years and up, it becomes more and more difficult to get a new health insurance policy here in LOS. They start costing quite a bit more, and covering less and less.

Given the ridiculously low cost of health insurance to cover major needs here, it strikes me as foolish not to buy it. No one really wants to worry about how they're going to pay when receiving chemotherapy or are recovering from a quadruple bypass, for example. And no one's gonna like the idea of their bank account balance dropping 300,000, 400,000 or 500,000 Baht then either. They're much too busy being in a bad way and trying to recover, to worry about money...

Edited January 20, 2016 by RedQualia

[LannaGuy]

65k is enough but not sure I'd agree with the 'must have insurance' brigade as stroke, cancer insurance is very high here and accident insurance may be worth it. many of my friends keep 1m or more in the bank for those type of things. maybe I am out of touch but i think those policies are around 50k a year? and are fairly limited? anyway 65k is about the average need for a good life here good luck and have fun.

Cost of coverage varies with applicant's age and the insurance company. I pay about 45,000 per year for my wife and I, for inpatient needs (visits to the doctor's office are pretty reasonable, and dirt cheap in Thai government hospitals). The policy covers lots of stuff. Only limitations I can think of off the top of my head is that coverage in the US is specifically excluded, and radiation/chemo is limited to a one time payment, maximum of (I think) 400,000 Baht. Policy rates are also a bit lower because it's tailored for hospitals outside Bangkok. Hospital costs in BKK tend to be about 20-30% more than in Chiang Mai, Udon Thani, et al. My share of the annual health insurance expense is about 30,000 Baht (age 63), while my wife's share is 15,000 Baht (age 48). We've both used the insurance a time or two... Myself for kidney stone removal, my wife for bad stomach problems. Different hospitals, if that matters. Interesting that my wife also gets "unemployment insurance" when hospitalized. She doesn't work outside the home, but was still paid 500 Baht per day for being hospitalized. Kinda cool, I think. Disappointed that I don't receive the same!

The 45,000 Baht total cost at current exchange rates translates to $1,250US, per year. That's peanuts, and especially compared to the rather extreme price gouging that's currently going on in the states. I doubt anyone in the US could get coverage anywhere near as good as we have here for even $1,250 per month. Drug prices in the states are also way out of control, and it's increasingly common to hear people there complain about very high prescription deductibles, like they have to pay the first $3,000 or $5,000 before insurance even starts to pay. I don't know how people there manage. Even generic drug prices are high and going higher. (I had to buy generic amoxicillin in the states a year or so ago for a sinus infection. Of course, pharmacies there can't sell antibiotics over the counter, so I had to get a doctor's prescription. So I had to find a doctor somewhere accepting new patients. I finally found a nurse practitioner who could prescribe it, at a cost of $35 to visit her poor people countryside establishment. The generic amoxicillin itself was fairly harsh, and cost $15, as I recall. So... Final, total stateside price for that amoxicillin: $50US. A 10 pack of 500mg amoxicillin tablets in Thailand typically runs about 150 Baht -- presently equal to $4.16US.)

So, a single guy age 63 can get health insurance like mine for about 30,000 Baht. That's about $830US, for a year's coverage. But he would pay a bit less because he's younger. Maybe $700-750US. (Kaiser Permanente in California wanted $700 per month for basic coverage for an individual 56 year old guy seven years ago. Lord knows what it might be now.).

It's also the case that OP is under 60 years of age. As one ages to 60 years and up, it becomes more and more difficult to get a new health insurance policy here in LOS. They start costing quite a bit more, and covering less and less.

Given the ridiculously low cost of health insurance to cover major needs here, it strikes me as foolish not to buy it. No one really wants to worry about how they're going to pay when receiving chemotherapy or are recovering from a quadruple bypass, for example. And no one's gonna like the idea of their bank account balance dropping 300,000, 400,000 or 500,000 Baht then either. They're much too busy being in a bad way and trying to recover, to worry about money...

time to rethink my strategy... thanks

[Pilotman]

Money won't be a problem, but I think you will get bored with street food. Personally, I had 3 years of eating South East Asian street food 3 times a day every day and one morning I woke up and swore never to eat it again. That was 5 years ago, and I honestly haven't had Thai food since - I'm able to do that because I cook every day, but not everyone shares my love of cooking.

My only unique advise to you is don't burn your bridges back home. Not straight away, anyway. I've lived in a lot of different countries so know a bit about it; once the novelty wears off, and it will, you may find that you don't like it that much after all. 'Back home' has a lot of pull for some people, even people who don't expect it to. You aren't talking about a holiday, you're talking about for good. What if you don't like it or develop a serious illness which needs intensive care? Short time, 24 hour care is cheap here compared to back home, particularly if you're from US, but a stroke or Parkison's or MS? Could be years of assisted living, could be for the rest of your life, could be not as good as in US, could be just as expensive without the things you're used to around you. Hopefully that will never happen, but if it does and you want or need to go back, you will be a lot better off if you have something to go back to.

I strongly recommend that If you own your own place now, rent it out if possible or if you need to sell, buy a small apartment as an investment so that you aren't locked out of the property market should you decide to go back at some stage in the future. Once you're out you will likely never get back in at your age. Living in a developing country isn't for everyone, just like living in a city or living in the countryside isn't for everyone. Until you try it, you don't know so it's a good idea to keep your options open. Even if you don't go back, it should be a good inflation-proof investment as long as you're not in a bad area.

Not burning your bridges is particularly important for you as you are relatively young. We were 43 and 44 when we retired 8 years ago, and while I'm happy to potter around in the kitchen, and read all day long, Mr K occasionally gets bored and more particularly, misses the social interactions of being in a workplace 5 days a week. He's just left for a 3 day trip, hired a big bike and away he goes (hiring one once a month for a couple of days is better than buying one in a lot of ways; it isn't sitting in the garage most of the time because riding around town on anything but a scooter is not practical, no maintenance costs, no up front costs, a different new or newish bike every time you go, no depreciation or trouble selling it, being a regular customer he is able to tag along on any arranged tours the bike shop has (despite the comment in an earlier post, he loved the ride to Laos with half a dozen others last year), the list of reasons for not buying goes on). Every now and again though, he gets a dreamy look in his eyes and talks about going back to Melbourne or maybe to the mines in Western Australia and is quite serious about it until I talk him down. We've been together for 36 years so can bounce off each other which stops us being truly lonely; many of the people we know enjoy their lives here but despite having many friends are very lonely and very bored, although very few people will admit it. I have no doubt some would go back home tomorrow but it isn't financially viable for them, even though they don't have any possessions to dispose of or any other material reasons to stop them or hold them up.

I've always said to people don't look at it as moving to a new country, look at it like it's a long holiday. Almost 30 years ago we left England and went for a long working holiday in New Zealand and a couple of years later when we decided it wasn't for us we went for a long working holiday in Australia and since then we've had long holidays in Malaysia then Thailand - we're still on one in Thailand, 6 years and counting. If it's a holiday, you have something to go back to and there's no embarrassment of those people - you know the ones I mean - saying 'I knew you couldn't hack living there'. Have a long holiday here then a long holiday in Cambodia then a long holiday in Vietnam and before you know it you'll be older and wiser and can either choose which country you like best or continue to have long holidays in different countries or different parts of those countries. It keeps things fresh, you'll make friends in each of the places you go to and going back to see friends is always good. We're based in Chiang Mai but spend a lot of our time going for (short) holidays to visit some of the friends we've made along the way.

It's already been mentioned, but please make sure you have an insurance policy, and make sure that includes medivac. It probably won't be cheap, but insurance is always a waste of money until you have to make a claim.

Most importantly though, enjoy your life. I'm sure you'll enjoy being in Chiang Mai, and maybe you'll enjoy being in Saigon or Penang or the islands down south or those in the Philipines. Pack a bag of clothes, a good pair of walking shoes and a full Kindle (you can buy everything else when you get here) and go for it.

Many thanks for this, which I found really thought provocating. My Thai wife and I live in the UK but we have just bought our retirement house in Sattahip and the move is planned for next year, once our youngest starts University. I have worked for 53 years and my biggest challenge will be giving up on full time working. I will have that issue whether I am in the UK or Thailand and frankly, I will have much more to occupy my time, and have a better quality of life in LOS, than in this horribly cold and misserable place. What you say about the difference between living in a location and being on holiday there is really an important point for people to consider. As an ex military man, I have lived in many locations Worldwide and you are so right, the 'living' is a very different challenge. Thanks once again for the tips.

[LannaGuy]

65k is enough but not sure I'd agree with the 'must have insurance' brigade as stroke, cancer insurance is very high here and accident insurance may be worth it. many of my friends keep 1m or more in the bank for those type of things. maybe I am out of touch but i think those policies are around 50k a year? and are fairly limited? anyway 65k is about the average need for a good life here good luck and have fun.

Cost of coverage varies with applicant's age and the insurance company. I pay about 45,000 per year for my wife and I, for inpatient needs (visits to the doctor's office are pretty reasonable, and dirt cheap in Thai government hospitals). The policy covers lots of stuff. Only limitations I can think of off the top of my head is that coverage in the US is specifically excluded, and radiation/chemo is limited to a one time payment, maximum of (I think) 400,000 Baht. Policy rates are also a bit lower because it's tailored for hospitals outside Bangkok. Hospital costs in BKK tend to be about 20-30% more than in Chiang Mai, Udon Thani, et al. My share of the annual health insurance expense is about 30,000 Baht (age 63), while my wife's share is 15,000 Baht (age 48). We've both used the insurance a time or two... Myself for kidney stone removal, my wife for bad stomach problems. Different hospitals, if that matters. Interesting that my wife also gets "unemployment insurance" when hospitalized. She doesn't work outside the home, but was still paid 500 Baht per day for being hospitalized. Kinda cool, I think. Disappointed that I don't receive the same!

The 45,000 Baht total cost at current exchange rates translates to $1,250US, per year. That's peanuts, and especially compared to the rather extreme price gouging that's currently going on in the states. I doubt anyone in the US could get coverage anywhere near as good as we have here for even $1,250 per month. Drug prices in the states are also way out of control, and it's increasingly common to hear people there complain about very high prescription deductibles, like they have to pay the first $3,000 or $5,000 before insurance even starts to pay. I don't know how people there manage. Even generic drug prices are high and going higher. (I had to buy generic amoxicillin in the states a year or so ago for a sinus infection. Of course, pharmacies there can't sell antibiotics over the counter, so I had to get a doctor's prescription. So I had to find a doctor somewhere accepting new patients. I finally found a nurse practitioner who could prescribe it, at a cost of $35 to visit her poor people countryside establishment. The generic amoxicillin itself was fairly harsh, and cost $15, as I recall. So... Final, total stateside price for that amoxicillin: $50US. A 10 pack of 500mg amoxicillin tablets in Thailand typically runs about 150 Baht -- presently equal to $4.16US.)

So, a single guy age 63 can get health insurance like mine for about 30,000 Baht. That's about $830US, for a year's coverage. But he would pay a bit less because he's younger. Maybe $700-750US. (Kaiser Permanente in California wanted $700 per month for basic coverage for an individual 56 year old guy seven years ago. Lord knows what it might be now.).

It's also the case that OP is under 60 years of age. As one ages to 60 years and up, it becomes more and more difficult to get a new health insurance policy here in LOS. They start costing quite a bit more, and covering less and less.

Given the ridiculously low cost of health insurance to cover major needs here, it strikes me as foolish not to buy it. No one really wants to worry about how they're going to pay when receiving chemotherapy or are recovering from a quadruple bypass, for example. And no one's gonna like the idea of their bank account balance dropping 300,000, 400,000 or 500,000 Baht then either. They're much too busy being in a bad way and trying to recover, to worry about money...

time to rethink my strategy... thanks

which co.?

[MaeJoMTB]

As an ex military man, I have lived in many locations Worldwide and you are so right, the 'living' is a very different challenge. Thanks once again for the tips.

Former SAS?

You'll fit right in!

[RedQualia]

65k is enough but not sure I'd agree with the 'must have insurance' brigade as stroke, cancer insurance is very high here and accident insurance may be worth it. many of my friends keep 1m or more in the bank for those type of things. maybe I am out of touch but i think those policies are around 50k a year? and are fairly limited? anyway 65k is about the average need for a good life here good luck and have fun.

Cost of coverage varies with applicant's age and the insurance company. I pay about 45,000 per year for my wife and I, for inpatient needs (visits to the doctor's office are pretty reasonable, and dirt cheap in Thai government hospitals). The policy covers lots of stuff. Only limitations I can think of off the top of my head is that coverage in the US is specifically excluded, and radiation/chemo is limited to a one time payment, maximum of (I think) 400,000 Baht. Policy rates are also a bit lower because it's tailored for hospitals outside Bangkok. Hospital costs in BKK tend to be about 20-30% more than in Chiang Mai, Udon Thani, et al. My share of the annual health insurance expense is about 30,000 Baht (age 63), while my wife's share is 15,000 Baht (age 48). We've both used the insurance a time or two... Myself for kidney stone removal, my wife for bad stomach problems. Different hospitals, if that matters. Interesting that my wife also gets "unemployment insurance" when hospitalized. She doesn't work outside the home, but was still paid 500 Baht per day for being hospitalized. Kinda cool, I think. Disappointed that I don't receive the same!

The 45,000 Baht total cost at current exchange rates translates to $1,250US, per year. That's peanuts, and especially compared to the rather extreme price gouging that's currently going on in the states. I doubt anyone in the US could get coverage anywhere near as good as we have here for even $1,250 per month. Drug prices in the states are also way out of control, and it's increasingly common to hear people there complain about very high prescription deductibles, like they have to pay the first $3,000 or $5,000 before insurance even starts to pay. I don't know how people there manage. Even generic drug prices are high and going higher. (I had to buy generic amoxicillin in the states a year or so ago for a sinus infection. Of course, pharmacies there can't sell antibiotics over the counter, so I had to get a doctor's prescription. So I had to find a doctor somewhere accepting new patients. I finally found a nurse practitioner who could prescribe it, at a cost of $35 to visit her poor people countryside establishment. The generic amoxicillin itself was fairly harsh, and cost $15, as I recall. So... Final, total stateside price for that amoxicillin: $50US. A 10 pack of 500mg amoxicillin tablets in Thailand typically runs about 150 Baht -- presently equal to $4.16US.)

So, a single guy age 63 can get health insurance like mine for about 30,000 Baht. That's about $830US, for a year's coverage. But he would pay a bit less because he's younger. Maybe $700-750US. (Kaiser Permanente in California wanted $700 per month for basic coverage for an individual 56 year old guy seven years ago. Lord knows what it might be now.).

It's also the case that OP is under 60 years of age. As one ages to 60 years and up, it becomes more and more difficult to get a new health insurance policy here in LOS. They start costing quite a bit more, and covering less and less.

Given the ridiculously low cost of health insurance to cover major needs here, it strikes me as foolish not to buy it. No one really wants to worry about how they're going to pay when receiving chemotherapy or are recovering from a quadruple bypass, for example. And no one's gonna like the idea of their bank account balance dropping 300,000, 400,000 or 500,000 Baht then either. They're much too busy being in a bad way and trying to recover, to worry about money...

time to rethink my strategy... thanks

which co.?

The one I'm insured with is Ayudhya Allianz, but there are many Thai companies offering similar policies, I'm sure. Just make sure you find an agent who speaks English reasonably well, as such will be most helpful when you're being admitted to the hospital, dealing with payments -- all kinds of things. (My first stay in the hospital here, they tried to put me in a private suite, complete with sofas, kitchen, multiple TVs, etc. My policy only covers an "ordinary room." Still, always good to haggle with the hospitals on things, and an English speaking insurance agent can be an excellent partner in such times.

There's also BUPA... Some British insurance outfit. I had a run in with a nasty Brit woman when I first went looking there and that turned me off to them. But that's just me. Maybe other people are happy with them. I don't know. This is Thailand, however. Maybe good to have more of a Thai insurance company?

[Cheesekraft]

don't forget to include visa costs and health care backup + insurance costs into the mix when deciding if it is adequate. I would think if you are frugal and do not drink or smoke you , and are single, you should do just fine without any other vices.

[zierf1]

20,000 a month is enough for the basics. You can check the facts on numbeo. Anything over 20,000 I spend on "hobbies".

[akdraw]

20,000 a month is enough for the basics. You can check the facts on numbeo. Anything over 20,000 I spend on "hobbies".

Yep, love those RC cars too. Thanks for numbeo very interesting.

[P4K]

You need health insurance or $3M baht in savings to cover emergencies. As long as you take zero risks (car v scooter) and can afford yearly checkups you are OK. Zero adventures on motor bike to Laos, etc. You also need to pay gym fees so you can work out. Eat in the basement of Promenada, Airport Plaza or another mall. Payap University Cafe has healthy food. Do not expect to eat on the street and escape illness.

3000000 baht?

Im 21 and have no insurance and nowhere near that amount saved. How much can I get insurance for? I regularly drive my scooter without a helmet (ik its pretty dumb) but I know of a guy who got into a serious accident and had to pay for the expenses of both parties and it only cost him about $4k. jw what are you basing this 3m baht figure on?

Also while on this topic, say i get into an accident and have no license, how would this effect the situation, would jail time be involved?

Also to op Im living very comfortably off about 36k baht per month.

this includes a 40sqm condo with cleaning service once a week, internet, cable, cell, scooter, eating out, and 12k baht spending money, so that last part excluded Im practically living off 24k baht. I'd compare it to about a $2k/month lifestyle in north american standards, so for 65k baht youre balling

Edited January 21, 2016 by P4K

[P4K]

You'll grow bored with eating street food all the time and learn about some of the gross shortcuts used to make it. What's in those fishballs and "broth"? You don't want to know.

+1 loved thai food before coming here now I hate it haah

[Konini]

Yup - as I said in an earlier post, I haven't eaten Thai food in five years. Thankfully cooking has always been my hobby so I make it my business to make sure I live somewhere with a fully equipped kitchen. I feel for those who don't, or who don't share my love of cooking, because chicken and salad sandwiches and yoghurt and fruit, while being very nice, get pretty boring after a while.

[NancyL]

You need health insurance or $3M baht in savings to cover emergencies. As long as you take zero risks (car v scooter) and can afford yearly checkups you are OK. Zero adventures on motor bike to Laos, etc. You also need to pay gym fees so you can work out. Eat in the basement of Promenada, Airport Plaza or another mall. Payap University Cafe has healthy food. Do not expect to eat on the street and escape illness.

3000000 baht?

Im 21 and have no insurance and nowhere near that amount saved. How much can I get insurance for? I regularly drive my scooter without a helmet (ik its pretty dumb) but I know of a guy who got into a serious accident and had to pay for the expenses of both parties and it only cost him about $4k. jw what are you basing this 3m baht figure on?

Also while on this topic, say i get into an accident and have no license, how would this effect the situation, would jail time be involved?

Also to op Im living very comfortably off about 36k baht per month.

this includes a 40sqm condo with cleaning service once a week, internet, cable, cell, scooter, eating out, and 12k baht spending money, so that last part excluded Im practically living off 24k baht. I'd compare it to about a $2k/month lifestyle in north american standards, so for 65k baht youre balling

A closed head-injury from a motorscooter accident, with a stay in ICU and convalescent time can easily run in excess of 3 or 4 million baht. I've seen people run up hospital charges that high from head-injury accidents on a bicycle! Sadly, one I know died recently from a head injury suffered in a bicycling accident in the city, along the moat. Nothing high speed, just running errands without a helmet. Unfortunately, he lingered for months, running up millions in hospital bills.

Jail time is the least of your worries for driving without a license.

[P4K]

You need health insurance or $3M baht in savings to cover emergencies. As long as you take zero risks (car v scooter) and can afford yearly checkups you are OK. Zero adventures on motor bike to Laos, etc. You also need to pay gym fees so you can work out. Eat in the basement of Promenada, Airport Plaza or another mall. Payap University Cafe has healthy food. Do not expect to eat on the street and escape illness.

3000000 baht?

Im 21 and have no insurance and nowhere near that amount saved. How much can I get insurance for? I regularly drive my scooter without a helmet (ik its pretty dumb) but I know of a guy who got into a serious accident and had to pay for the expenses of both parties and it only cost him about $4k. jw what are you basing this 3m baht figure on?

Also while on this topic, say i get into an accident and have no license, how would this effect the situation, would jail time be involved?

Also to op Im living very comfortably off about 36k baht per month.

this includes a 40sqm condo with cleaning service once a week, internet, cable, cell, scooter, eating out, and 12k baht spending money, so that last part excluded Im practically living off 24k baht. I'd compare it to about a $2k/month lifestyle in north american standards, so for 65k baht youre balling

A closed head-injury from a motorscooter accident, with a stay in ICU and convalescent time can easily run in excess of 3 or 4 million baht. I've seen people run up hospital charges that high from head-injury accidents on a bicycle! Sadly, one I know died recently from a head injury suffered in a bicycling accident in the city, along the moat. Nothing high speed, just running errands without a helmet. Unfortunately, he lingered for months, running up millions in hospital bills.

Jail time is the least of your worries for driving without a license.

ouch thats terrible, I honestly prefer death over that bill haha, death over any serious injury imo is better anyway, that said how should I go about getting medical insurance? how much should I expect to pay? And Im assuming the insurance would be void if I crash without a license? I have like no alternatives to getting around, biking in my area is even more dangerous imo. Is there any way I could get a scooter license here being on a tourist visa? sorry for all the questions haha

[P4K]

also how does it work if you owe the hospital 3m? will they not let you out of the country until it is payed?

[arithai12]

65k/month is plenty. Until you decide to marry.

Edited January 21, 2016 by arithai12

[NancyL]

also how does it work if you owe the hospital 3m? will they not let you out of the country until it is payed?

From your post in a another thread, it seems that you're a tourist. You should have gotten travel insurance and an International Drivers License, with a motorcycle endorsement, BEFORE you came over here.

You're right, any insurance will be void if you have an accident without the appropriate license. Use the search function to see how you can get a Thai drivers license. You can get a one-year license even with a tourist visa.

As for insurance, again, Dr. Google is your friend. There have been numerous threads on this forum about good local sources for comprehensive medical insurance if you plan to stay. At your age, it shouldn't be very expensive.

As for your question about how does it "work" if you owe the hospital a lot of money. Well, if you mess yourself up and are taken to one of the nice private hospitals where they normally take foreigners, they'll stabilize you enough to figure out you don't have insurance then they'll chuck you over to a gov't hospital and hold your passport, or whatever other valuables you have (like an iPhone or whatever) until you can pay that initial bill to the private hospital.

The gov't hospital has a "human rights obligation to treat", but that doesn't necessarily mean they're happy about it. You'll receive the same basic standard of care of the lowest of low Thai people. Poor food, staff that doesn't speak English, wards designed for six beds holding nine. No aircon, wifi, TV on just a few hours a day and then tuned to some Thai game show at top volume. Meanwhile, depending upon your country of origin your embassy/consulate may or may not take an interest in trying to reach your family/friends in your home country to send money so you can make a deposit and upgrade to western meals and maybe to a nicer room. Until you make a deposit of at least 100,000 baht, they'll figure you're just going to walk out the door as soon as possible, especially if you're young and a tourist. It happens frequently. You see, unlike the private hospitals, the gov't hospitals don't hold passports and as of now, they still aren't very good at notifying the police and immigration when someone "escapes" (yes that's their word) from paying a hospital bill. I see all the writing on the wall where that may change and it could be grounds for arrest when you try to leave the country. It's not a good idea to owe the Thai gov't money.

[Konini]

These are very wise words you're hearing from Nancy, P4K, I hope you're taking notice of them. Being so young, a stroke or degenerative disease isn't likely for you, but an accident can happen to any one, any where at any time, and you don't have to be on a motorbike; my husband fell getting out of the bath a few years ago whilst we were in Turkey. No drugs, no alcohol, no old-age dodderyness, just plain and simple went over and hit his head in the exact right spot. Blood spurted out and covered the bathroom walls within a minute.

Thankfully, it looked much worse than it was, no real damage just a big shock, a lot of stitches in his forehead and a night in the very fancy brand new hospital the ambulance took us to, complete with very nice care, a neurologist being called out and a few scans. I hate to think how expensive that would have been without insurance - after lots of sympathy and concern, the first question on the phone to our company in Australia was a gentle way of asking if he had been drinking or taking illicit substances. They told me, in a really nice way, that they would fax the letter the hospital was insisting on - stating that he was covered good for any charges - as soon as they got an initial assessment from a doctor. In the initial panic, this went right over my head, but of course they were waiting for official confirmation of my telling them that he wasn't under the influence before committing themselves to any charges. Luck is a very strange thing and this little boof on the head could have left him with at one end of the scale nothing more than a bit of a lump for a few days or at the other end permanent brain damage. I'll take the stitches over the brain damage thankyouverymuch, but a bit of a lump would have been even better. You just never know what the day holds for you when you wake up, and while we never think about it until something like this happens and it's on your mind for a day or so, any one of us could trip up or lose our balance or miss a step at any time, all by ourselves, nobody else's luck or bad karma involved but our own. Things happen. We hope they always happen to other people, but sometimes we are the other person and the exact way you fall and what hits the ground first is a total lottery on the bump/stitches/major scale.

You will be able to get travel insurance online with World Nomads. They do an annual policy and they are one of the very few companies that will allow you to be already overseas when you start the policy (that bit is usually in the small print of policies and has been used to void a couple that I know of). We have been with them for a couple of years, around US$1,000 for 2 of us (but that is based on us being officially Australian residents) and covers you for being on a motorbike as long as you are in compliance with local laws (that is everything from having the correct local or international licence to being sensible in the way you drive) and they seem OK but we fortunately haven't had to make a claim so I can't comment on how good they are once things go wrong.

$1,000 sounds like a lot of money? It wouldn't have covered the costs involved with our little excitement in Turkey by a long stretch, and in theory that would be half the price for a single person rather than a couple - age doesn't come into travel insurance until you're 70 or 75, just the number of people and which countries are covered. Waste of money paying it every year? Of course it is. Insurance is always a waste of money. Until you have to make a claim. Then you thank whichever God you believe in that you stumped up for it. If you truly have nothing, it will be your loved ones back home who will have to pay, you might be able to cut a deal with them putting something towards it in leiu of birthday and christmas presents if you're lucky, but if not, just bite the bullet and suffer like the rest of us have to every year when we waste that money.

Off topic, but something that should be of interest to everyone who relies on travel insurance and I post it as often as I can. Since our little drama in Turkey, I have made enquiries about something I found in the small print of our policy with insurance brokers and the general opinion from several - it sparked quite a discussion on one of the forums I posted the question in - was that the wording of this specific policy was in line with all travel insurance policies in that it leaves the companies with a get out clause if you have been drinking. I knew this from my reading of it, but I couldn't see any distinction between a drink and totally rat arsed. The discussion it sparked was in relation to something none of the brokers had previously realised, and that was that insurance companies have the right to void any travel policy if ANY alcohol has been consumed. Of course, they don't usually invoke this get out clause otherwise brokers would have known about it, but they CAN invoke it if they want to as it was in the wording of all of the different policies they looked at. Because holidays and alcohol don't mix, do they? I mean, who would have though about having a cheeky glass of beer whist on holiday? That was the question I wanted answering, because my reading of the small print was could one single drink could potentially leave me uncovered, because that couldn't possibly be right, could it? It really seemed to surprise the experts I threw the question up to, because it turns out I was right. Rolling drunk, I could understand, but a glass of wine with a meal? If they want to disown you, they can. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't have insurance though, nobody would expect them to actually do this, it was just very interesting to find out that it's possible.

[TheSiemReaper]

My health insurance is about 6K Baht a month (paid monthly at a very slight premium from being paid annually). I'd love to know where the ridiculously low cost of healthcare estimates originate from. Just spraining my ankle on a road in Malaysia left me with a bill of $1,500 USD... I'm thinking that a motorbike crash with serious injuries is going to run quite a bit more than that. It's also deeply unfair to rely on a middle income nation's struggling healthcare system to treat you for nothing in the event of an accident. It's that kind of stuff that triggers more issues with getting visas in the future...

[Konini]

Wow - I think it was maybe more than your ankle that was rolled in Malaysia. My husband got hit around the back of the head twice, one side with a half full beer bottle and the second time once the bottle was smashed so a much larger wound. Ambulance (which I think might have been free), Accident and Emergency nurses and doctors, 42 stitches (his head seriously resembles a patchwork quilt, and he is totally bald), xray, stopped breathing for a few seconds just as he was being discharged so a night in a general admission ward and a fistful of antibiotics when he left and it wasn't worth the $150 out of pocket excess payment to make a claim. I phoned the insurance company before I went back to the hospital the following morning knowing he was OK and that they were discharging him and they knew how little it would cost and told me even if I didn't bother claiming to let them know how it all ended and send a doctor's report so they could make a note on the policy in case there were problems down the track.

Not a private hospital (it was an emergency after all) but a seriously different amount to what you paid. Our Malaysian friends shook their heads in disgust when they told us that as visitors we were charged more than they would be for the same treatment - apparently it was almost double their estimates for themselves. I once had to go and see a doctor there once to get antibiotics because they aren't available over the counter and it only cost a few dollars at a clinic similar to the doctor's offices here in Thailand, so definitely private even if not fancy.

As I was writing this, I remembered about the tourist insurance thing that the government were talking about putting in place last year or the year before. I forget the details, but it was going to be a blanket charge on all foreigners entering the country charged at immigration, ridiculous in that it would catch all tourists, the majority of whom would have travel insurance in place, and not catch anyone already in the country with no plans on leaving and more likely to be of an age to be needing normal, non-accident health care. I suppose we're lucky that the weekly announcements are nothing more than hot air.

[cmth]

Maybe I have an iron constitution for Thai food but I have eaten at many hole in wall restaurants and street stalls and have not been sick once. The same cannot be said for Mexico, India, or China. Food safety is an illusion anywhere. I had a life threatening case of E. Coli right in the good ole USA from a well respected restaurant. Some good friends of mine own a commercial kitchen supply company in Florida. They get to see what goes on in the back. If I told you half the things they have seen, you would insist on hunting, cleaning, and cooking your own food for the rest of your life. Back to original question, if you aren't a drinker or a big spender, 65,000 baht per month is plenty in Chiang Mai.