Growing Makua in Thailand

[Maizefarmer]

Between 2/3 and 3/4 of the retail price at the time -remeber it changes according to the avaliblilty and can do so on a daily basis - genrally alot higher in the dry season.

It you find the price is real low at any one time - then start picking the flowers off the plant before they turn into fruit. It conserves energy for the plant leaving it with an enhanced yield potential when the price starts to rise.

Also means you are not going to have to spend money on paying labour to harvest a crop that is not earning much.

Tim

[Tim207]

Maizefarmer, thanks again for all your valuable help. I guess the thread did get hijacked from the original topic,

A little hijacking now and then is good. How else can you find out about a subject that never occured to you? I am intrigued by the makua info and I never would have thought it could be so promising. I had a slight interest in rubber since I was almost caught up in it at one time but after reading more it doesn't sound so good unless it is already planted and at least a few years old.

I know it would frustrate me if I started a tree topic and everyone started talking about vegetables so I will start a new makua topic.

[Tim207]

MF, There are a few question marks left in my figures.

All figures based on 1 rai for simplicity.

Setting up the irrigation system. I figure about 700 drippers at a cost of 10,000 - 11,000 baht. I'm not currently in Thailand so could someone give me an idea how much the piping costs (flexible rolls and the solid blue)? Isangeorge guestimated 30,000 total and that's what I have used in my figures so far. Too high, too low? I also added 12,000 for misc costs, tilling, fertilizer, chemicals. Good guess or not?

Sale price. I believe you said average 15 - 20 baht/kg and in another post you mentioned the wholesale is about 25% - 33% below retail. My question is was the 15 - 20 what you get from your wholesaler or average retail from which an adjust ment for wholesale price needs to be made? I believe that is retail price but want to confirm that.

I was also wondering how long makua will produce before having to start with new plants.

I am thinking about buying about 20 rai in the next couple of years with a garden and fish pond in front of the house and some kind of farm on the back 15 or so rai. Makua seems like a good option so far but I would like to get a clear picture of startup costs.

[buriramboy]

don't worry about hijacking the thread on my account, i started it a few weeks ago, and now i am becoming more fascinated with makua than i am with rubber trees, you live and learn.

[RamdomChances]

I've split this out of it's original topic's, as there seems to be a lot of intrest in it. Sorry if the post look a little disjointed

Edited October 19, 2006 by RamdomChances

[Maizefarmer]

MF, There are a few question marks left in my figures.

All figures based on 1 rai for simplicity.

Setting up the irrigation system. I figure about 700 drippers at a cost of 10,000 - 11,000 baht. I'm not currently in Thailand so could someone give me an idea how much the piping costs (flexible rolls and the solid blue)? Isangeorge guestimated 30,000 total and that's what I have used in my figures so far. Too high, too low? I also added 12,000 for misc costs, tilling, fertilizer, chemicals. Good guess or not?

Sale price. I believe you said average 15 - 20 baht/kg and in another post you mentioned the wholesale is about 25% - 33% below retail. My question is was the 15 - 20 what you get from your wholesaler or average retail from which an adjust ment for wholesale price needs to be made? I believe that is retail price but want to confirm that.

I was also wondering how long makua will produce before having to start with new plants.

I am thinking about buying about 20 rai in the next couple of years with a garden and fish pond in front of the house and some kind of farm on the back 15 or so rai. Makua seems like a good option so far but I would like to get a clear picture of startup costs.

Oh hel_l ...... another 20 rai Makua plantation!!! I should have shut my mouth!!!!

Only joking - that doesnt even supply Bkk for a day.

Okay - to your questions:

So the first few rai are always going to be more expensive when getting soemthing like this up and running (you may even decide to plant them in buckets as I suggested as an alternative), and that will push the cost up as well. You need a pump, you need to buy seeed trays, you need the labour to plant those plants you need to buy your tubing, you need to lay a distribution line ect ect.... there are a whole load of expenses that will have to be acomodated at the start , which will not have be accomodated once you are up and running and expanding e.g. you won't have to dig another well, and you won't have to buy another pump amongst others).

How much does the tubing cost - a varies according to manufacturer. I have seen it as low as Bhat 3.2 p/meter up to Baht 11. p/meter. Deepends on a whole load of factors.

The price of this crop can vary on an almost daily basis - I have seen it as low as Baht 6 p/kg and as high as Baht60 p/kg!. A fair average would be Baht15 - 20 - yes, retail in the wet season. In the dry season the average goes up to around Baht 25 - 30.

20 rai Makua is a huge Makua plantation. By all mean sgo for it, but I strongly recomend you start off with about 1 rai (which you will be able to offload daily as I said in any local village/town market), use that as your "classroom" because there is a lot to learn in growing freash vegeatable on a large scale. You will wake up one morning and will have hairy catapillars all over the plants, and panick! This experiance is a dead cert and they wil destroy your crop in a about 3 days. You need to learn how to respond to that...... and a whole load of other things that can and do happen when growing Makua.

So start off small - 1 - 4 rai is enough and then as you get comfortable, start expanding.

How long before the plants need to be replaced? 36 months, possibly even 48 months. Keep a daily yield record.

It will continue to increase month after month and then start dropping off. That is whenyou stop harvesting and trim back the plants. The production will then climb steeply. When tit starts to drop off again, trim gain ... and repeat this procedure untill the production no longer increases - in fact it will reach a point where it will start to drop off sharply. Usualy around 36, but could be as long as 48 months.

Tim

[bannork]

can't even fing makua in my thai-english dictionary, so please give me an idiots guide as to what it is as i will then have to try explain it to the wife. TY

มะเขือ should be spelt as makhua in English( soft 'k' rising tone), in Issan it's called makhia.

We're having trouble getting the black PVC tubing in our town, may start with hosepipe irrigation.

[Maizefarmer]

Bannork

Thanks for the language lesson - I have to consider that it may well be pronounced as you quite rightly say in Isaan - but the viewers to this forum are all over Thailand, the the majority of people will therefore relate to and recognise Makua beofre they recognise the word Makhia (again english spelling aside - which is always an issue with any word in Thai that does not havean Englisg equivilant, Makua is recognised in Isaan).

Where exactly are you - what town.

I'll get how ever much you want onto a inter-provincial truck tomorrow morning.

You'll have it in 48hours.

Actually Bannork - how much are you intending to start with?

Tim

[Gary A]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade BUT those plants grow like weeds behind our house and they are ugly plants. They seem to just go on producing non stop. My wife and her family eat a few but most go to waste. My wife can't even give them away.

[Maizefarmer]

But not wanting to rain on ayones parade gives the wrong imppresion i.e. that they are not worth anything. Well quite right they arent - and the reasons why are below, but that aside you can drive round Thailand and see 1000's of hectares of maize - people just leave it.

Gary -like all fruti and veg, if not maintained and picked at the right point in growth they are of no use and best to just leave to go to waste.

Hence they have to be harvested (picked) every morning - not above about 4.5cm max or less than about 3-3.5cm - depending on variety - above or below that size is no good to anyone.

Tim

[Tim207]

Oh hel_l ...... another 20 rai Makua plantation!!! I should have shut my mouth!!!!

Only joking - that doesnt even supply Bkk for a day.

Okay - to your questions:

So the first few rai are always going to be more expensive when getting soemthing like this up and running (you may even decide to plant them in buckets as I suggested as an alternative), and that will push the cost up as well. You need a pump, you need to buy seeed trays, you need the labour to plant those plants you need to buy your tubing, you need to lay a distribution line ect ect.... there are a whole load of expenses that will have to be acomodated at the start , which will not have be accomodated once you are up and running and expanding e.g. you won't have to dig another well, and you won't have to buy another pump amongst others).

How much does the tubing cost - a varies according to manufacturer. I have seen it as low as Bhat 3.2 p/meter up to Baht 11. p/meter. Deepends on a whole load of factors.

The price of this crop can vary on an almost daily basis - I have seen it as low as Baht 6 p/kg and as high as Baht60 p/kg!. A fair average would be Baht15 - 20 - yes, retail in the wet season. In the dry season the average goes up to around Baht 25 - 30.

20 rai Makua is a huge Makua plantation. By all mean sgo for it, but I strongly recomend you start off with about 1 rai (which you will be able to offload daily as I said in any local village/town market), use that as your "classroom" because there is a lot to learn in growing freash vegeatable on a large scale. You will wake up one morning and will have hairy catapillars all over the plants, and panick! This experiance is a dead cert and they wil destroy your crop in a about 3 days. You need to learn how to respond to that...... and a whole load of other things that can and do happen when growing Makua.

So start off small - 1 - 4 rai is enough and then as you get comfortable, start expanding.

How long before the plants need to be replaced? 36 months, possibly even 48 months. Keep a daily yield record.

It will continue to increase month after month and then start dropping off. That is whenyou stop harvesting and trim back the plants. The production will then climb steeply. When tit starts to drop off again, trim gain ... and repeat this procedure untill the production no longer increases - in fact it will reach a point where it will start to drop off sharply. Usualy around 36, but could be as long as 48 months.

Tim

Thanks MF, it looks like 30,000 irrigation startup was a pretty good ballpark not counting a well and pump.

As for starting slow, I have no intention of jumping in head first. I don't have any solid plan yet but knowing myself I have a pretty good idea how it will go.

Start with 1 or maybe even 1/2 a rai. Wait until it starts producing then look on in wonder that it worked. Start another rai to see if it will actually work again. When they come up and I can find a buyer add 2 more then 2 more etc. When I am fully committed I will look back and think how much easier and cheaper it would have been to do it all at one time. I loved your advice to have plants at several different ages to avoid losing everything to a particular pest at one time. It fit right in with my natural tendency.

The question about plant productive life was with this stepped planting in mind so I have an idea of a schedule for replanting the different plots.

Thanks a lot. This has been very helpful.

[Tim207]

Hey MF, you ever think of exporting? Take a look at this

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00...56-20/ref=nosim

Now that is a nice price.

[udon]

Varius other names for Makua.

Tim,

I cannot buy seeds in Aus but I can buy the vegie.

How do I go about getting good seeds from the vegie.

I have a small "plot" outside "the shed"

[Maizefarmer]

TIM207 - Exporting? - I did & I didn't think about - well, put it this way - it didnt take me long to decide not to. As you can see it is exported, and all Thai shops overseas have them in stock. I walked into a Thai food shop in Cheltenham UK about 1 year ago - first of all suprized their was a Thai food shop in a place like that & secondly was suprized to find they had Makua in stock - although they were crap makua. And that is the problem with them - they are eaten almost exclsuively by Thai's (well atleast from a business quantity point of view) and have to be fresh, and a Thai can tell a makua that is 1 day old from a makua that is 2 days old - and anything more than a day old is past its Thai shelf date.

They are very much a fresh vegie product which the Thi's always select as fresh as they can.

PS - the edges of the little leaves around the stem where they are picked and the whitish skin at the oppiste end starts to go brown within a day or so.

So exporting has its problems. That along with the quanity required to make it viable export project is very iffy. Also , as you can see from the internet, they are exported and they are already avalible overseas.

Tell you where it would be a viable export project - if a UK tesco or USA Walmart buyer turned up on the doorstep - then I would seriously consider it because they are a fussy bunch who like to source from the same farm - and I'm defineatly in the top 1% - 2% of biggest single makua growers in Thailand.

I know there is a gur in the UK who imports on a weekly basis and I know there is also a guy in the USA who imports them from Thailand - and they also are grown in the USA.

UDON - if you PM me your address I'll post some seeds to you in Aus. They'll grow just fine there I'm certain of that.

Before someone asks - organic production is possible but you'd have to do it in a greenhouse if you wanted to do it on a commercial scale. The production costs would otherwise impact significantly on your margin

Tim

[bannork]

Bannork

Thanks for the language lesson - I have to consider that it may well be pronounced as you quite rightly say in Isaan - but the viewers to this forum are all over Thailand, the the majority of people will therefore relate to and recognise Makua beofre they recognise the word Makhia (again english spelling aside - which is always an issue with any word in Thai that does not havean Englisg equivilant, Makua is recognised in Isaan).

Where exactly are you - what town.

I'll get how ever much you want onto a inter-provincial truck tomorrow morning.

You'll have it in 48hours.

Actually Bannork - how much are you intending to start with?

Tim

Not that far from you MF, near a town called Bandung, 80 km north-east of Udon.

Thanks for the sale offer but as we're only starting off with half a rai of makhua, eggplant, first of all, then might as well let the missus and sister-in-law irrigate it with the hose, inspite of your excellent advice\warning about weeds and spores encouraged by spray\ sprinklers.

The missus is keen on chillis, often quoting the 150 baht per kilo figures.

I have an important question MF about the land to be use by makhua.

As it's a 3 or 4 year plant one has to consider the rainy season so what is its tolerance to waterlogged soil? Should it only be planted on well drained soil?

cheers, Bannork.

[Maizefarmer]

Bannork

Thanks for the language lesson - I have to consider that it may well be pronounced as you quite rightly say in Isaan - but the viewers to this forum are all over Thailand, the the majority of people will therefore relate to and recognise Makua beofre they recognise the word Makhia (again english spelling aside - which is always an issue with any word in Thai that does not havean Englisg equivilant, Makua is recognised in Isaan).

Where exactly are you - what town.

I'll get how ever much you want onto a inter-provincial truck tomorrow morning.

You'll have it in 48hours.

Actually Bannork - how much are you intending to start with?

Tim

Not that far from you MF, near a town called Bandung, 80 km north-east of Udon.

Thanks for the sale offer but as we're only starting off with half a rai of makhua, eggplant, first of all, then might as well let the missus and sister-in-law irrigate it with the hose, inspite of your excellent advice\warning about weeds and spores encouraged by spray\ sprinklers.

The missus is keen on chillis, often quoting the 150 baht per kilo figures.

I have an important question MF about the land to be use by makhua.

As it's a 3 or 4 year plant one has to consider the rainy season so what is its tolerance to waterlogged soil? Should it only be planted on well drained soil?

cheers, Bannork.

If its only half a rai - fine use a hose pipe.

Nope - they will not withstand flooded or waterlogged soil. They'll tolerate it for a few days or a week or so - but if its continually waterlogged through the wet season you will loose the plant.

Tim

[Somtham]

Nope - they will not withstand flooded or waterlogged soil. They'll tolerate it for a few days or a week or so - but if its continually waterlogged through the wet season you will loose the plant.

Tim

OK, so I just got off the phone with the stock broker and I'm long on Toray Plastics which makes the plastic paint pails and Naan drippers and short on Talat Thai which is the wholesale market just north of Klong Luang in BKK due to the abundance of Makuas that have flooded the market!!

Seriously though, the wife and I planted hundreds of makua seeds a few months ago and not one of them germinated. We did not at all do it as MF mentioned and we're now in the process of cleaning out the weeds to give it another go as MF suggests.

We have 30 rai of paddy that we rent out for a whopping B1k/rai/year. I'm trying to convince the wife if the one rai makua experiment goes well we should convert at least 15 rai from paddy to makua. She emphatically says "no way" as the paddy land will always be flooded. But I say, we plant the makuas in the plastic pails above the ground and drain the rain water to the pond that's on the property. Then she says "no way".

What do you think? Is it possible to convert rice paddies to a thriving makua plantation?

rgds

[Maizefarmer]

SOMTHAM , just out of interests sake I'll share something with you .... I do online FOREX trading - its my offshore insurance policy - more or less doubles my annual income (the income from which I keep well away from my Thai accounts and figures - and the local tax man).

My style is trading short-term: short or long trades on which can be closed in about 10 - 30minutes - perhaps 1 hour max. Have never kept a position open for more than 2 hours. Can't do that with stocks and shares , but its easily done with the FOREX market which as you proberbly know is open 24hrs a day the whole year - except for Saturday night thru to earlier morning Monday.

Okay .... back to Makua.

Take Note as follows:

1) Read all my notes on growing Makua.

2) They must be germinated in and transplanted from seed trays - the longer you can leave them

in the seed tray the better - and if that means leaving them in till they are 40-45-50cm high then

all the better. Cover them for the 1st week or so while in the seed tray with netting that cuts

back the light by at least 20 -30% and up to 40% will be fine. Purchase 10% netting and double

it over, then at the 2nd week remove one layer and leave for another week, before removing

completly.

3) Note my watering regime - important.

Having said all that I am afraid that you cannot maintain them in rice paddies, as when the wet

season arrives , the soil will become waterlogged and they will die.

However - if you are willing to land fill the paddy then yes - they become ideal locations because they are inevatibly flat and the soil is condusive to equal moisture content across the whole field which encourages equal growth between all the plants. Equal plant growth amongst Makua on the same field is a very postive yiled enhancement characteristic - but we are now getting into complicate dissues related to farming them.

If you are going to go down this route I would suggest that you start off with about 1rai - perhaps 2rai and raise it to at least 18" above the existing bank level which surounds the paddy, or at least 8-10" above the road level that runs along side the paddy - whichever is highest - to ensure good drainage. While Makua will tolerate wet soil, the problem will more be one of the soil bee destroyed as people have to walk along the same routes everyday to harvest the fruit.

Also note, the Thai's will encourage you to plant the Makua closer together - do not, it leads to problems later when the plants have grown and are developed - it results in a high percentage of the leaves and especialy the flowers been covered by foliage of the plants along side - which turn slows down the flower developement (and fruiting rate) as well as providing alot of additional shade for insects to hide in, encouraging pest problems, while making it difficult to apply insecticide effectively (assuming you will be spraying).

........... that was a mouthfull.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Tim

[Somtham]

SOMTHAM , just out of interests sake I'll share something with you .... I do online FOREX trading - its my offshore insurance policy - more or less doubles my annual income (the income from which I keep well away from my Thai accounts and figures - and the local tax man).

My style is trading short-term: short or long trades on which can be closed in about 10 - 30minutes - perhaps 1 hour max. Have never kept a position open for more than 2 hours. Can't do that with stocks and shares , but its easily done with the FOREX market which as you proberbly know is open 24hrs a day the whole year - except for Saturday night thru to earlier morning Monday.

Okay .... back to Makua.

Take Note as follows:

1) Read all my notes on growing Makua.

2) They must be germinated in and transplanted from seed trays - the longer you can leave them

in the seed tray the better - and if that means leaving them in till they are 40-45-50cm high then

all the better. Cover them for the 1st week or so while in the seed tray with netting that cuts

back the light by at least 20 -30% and up to 40% will be fine. Purchase 10% netting and double

it over, then at the 2nd week remove one layer and leave for another week, before removing

completly.

3) Note my watering regime - important.

Having said all that I am afraid that you cannot maintain them in rice paddies, as when the wet

season arrives , the soil will become waterlogged and they will die.

However - if you are willing to land fill the paddy then yes - they become ideal locations because they are inevatibly flat and the soil is condusive to equal moisture content across the whole field which encourages equal growth between all the plants. Equal plant growth amongst Makua on the same field is a very postive yiled enhancement characteristic - but we are now getting into complicate dissues related to farming them.

If you are going to go down this route I would suggest that you start off with about 1rai - perhaps 2rai and raise it to at least 18" above the existing bank level which surounds the paddy, or at least 8-10" above the road level that runs along side the paddy - whichever is highest - to ensure good drainage. While Makua will tolerate wet soil, the problem will more be one of the soil bee destroyed as people have to walk along the same routes everyday to harvest the fruit.

Also note, the Thai's will encourage you to plant the Makua closer together - do not, it leads to problems later when the plants have grown and are developed - it results in a high percentage of the leaves and especialy the flowers been covered by foliage of the plants along side - which turn slows down the flower developement (and fruiting rate) as well as providing alot of additional shade for insects to hide in, encouraging pest problems, while making it difficult to apply insecticide effectively (assuming you will be spraying).

........... that was a mouthfull.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Tim

Interesting on the Forex. I wish I had the knowledge to trade as I know people that have made a lot of money doing it. Maybe in my next life.

I've read every one of your Makua posts and we totally screwed up first time around. The wife was right on with the paddy field. Land fill is expensive around here so we'll stick with the 1 rai next to the fish ponds to get started and continue renting the rice paddies out. I've already cut a 1.5m bamboo stick for the workers for planting at the recommended density.

will keep you posted on progress.

rgds and thanks for your time.

[Maizefarmer]

Yes - the bamboo stick is a big step forward!!!!

.... keep us posted.

Tim

[udon]

Yes - the bamboo stick is a big step forward!!!!

.... keep us posted.

Tim

Did you rec. my email?

[Maizefarmer]

Yes - the bamboo stick is a big step forward!!!!

.... keep us posted.

Tim

Did you rec. my email?

I havent checked yet - was it sent to yahoo, hotmail or postmaster?

Tim.

[udon]

via the email link in yr profile

[Maizefarmer]

UDON

Hi - yes I have got it and will reply to you today.

Regards

Tim

quote name='udon' date='2006-10-23 03:15:36' post='952622']

via the email link in yr profile

[billd766]

Maizefarmer

I have been following this thread with great interest which is what I am trying to get my wife to show.

She thinks it is a good idea with a couple of reservations so far.

If we grow too much for the local market where will we sell it.

We need better water supplies.

We have about 10 rai where we live mostly planted with man (tapioca) and we are on a slope so the runoff is OK and the ground does not stay waterlogged, and another 10 rai about 3 km down the road also planted with man. This land has a klong running at the bach so it is possible to get water pumped in the dry season but the main land is rock about 1/2 metre down so we cannot drill for water.

She is talking about growing papaya for papaya pok pok on the second piece of land but I will open another thread about that.

Thanks for the help and information on this thread.

[Maizefarmer]

BILLD766

Hi - I have replied to your in broad terms under the Papaya thread you started. However to recap, you may like to take note of my following comments.

1) You defineatly need water for the Makua - which explains why the price goes up so much in the dry season - because most small scale farmers do not have irrigation. If you dont have irrigation you won't be able to grow them successfully. But, you do realise the same will apply for the Papaya in the dry season. If you wish to grow them successful and on a commercial scale, you will need to have irrigation. Fortuneatly they can both be drip irrigated - i.e. you will not need to pump large volumes at fast rates, which means you can draw off whatever existing water supply there is slowly.

2) Where will you sell the Makua? - you wil not have a problem up to about 4 rai, that I am certain of - where ever you are. Remeber this is a daily crop which will produce for you an average of around 15 kg's per rai per day.

To repeat my suggestion that I posted on the Papaya thread - start off with 1 rai and build up from there on a 1 rai at a time basis. This will allow you to get a feel for the market without overloading it and will also give you a feel for just what is involved in growing this crop and maintianing it.

Even better - because the Papaya has such a small footprint it can be "intercropped between the Makua plants very well indeed.

I would suggest that you plant 1 rai of Makua and inter-crop it every 3 or 4 Makua plants with a Papaya plant - grow both together on the same land at the same time. They go together very well as they have the same water and fertilser requirements.

Tim

[udon]

UDON

Hi - yes I have got it and will reply to you today.

Regards

Tim

quote name='udon' date='2006-10-23 03:15:36' post='952622']

via the email link in yr profile

Still waiting!

[Maizefarmer]

UDON

Hi - yes I have got it and will reply to you today.

Regards

Tim

quote name='udon' date='2006-10-23 03:15:36' post='952622']

via the email link in yr profile

Still waiting!

This is not the first time I have replied to your emails only to find a few days later you have not recieved my reply - its happened before

Sent 2 days ago - in great detail!!

No prob's - I'll right it up again and resend

Regards

Tim

[udon]

Tim,

I have never sent you an email from my gmail address, it was via yr profile.....or rec'd one from you.

I gave you my email address in the email 7 days ago (20/10) via yr profile.

I also sent another PM on 25/10 which is still unread.

cheers

udon

Edited October 27, 2006 by udon

[Maizefarmer]

Udon

Apologies - I am getting myself mixed up here.

The emai l replied to was from Ruud - and that too apears not to have got through.

I will go through all emails to night and re- reply to them - or reply where I have missed them.

Regards

Tim