Growing Makua in Thailand

[btate]

P & M

http://www.netafimgreenhouse.com/ while not specific to Thailand does have a lot of info on greenhouses and does have contact info (email) for the Thai office.

Thanks for the link and ideas.

Bt

[Pond Life]

Makua in Carrefour Dubai, 80 B for maybe 200 g.

Condition, probably acceptable to a Farang but a Thai wouldn't touch them.

[Somtham]

edit....

You need to be carefull on this pricing point. If the person who goes to market to get the daily makua price is someone everyone knows is asking on behalf of you, then they may deliberately be told a low price. Tim had this many years ago on several occassions untill he found out it was a setup to try and drive him out of business. Okay, the price does go down low at times and B6 is possible, but it wil go back up within a couple weeks. There is someone round your area who's plants flowered a few weeks back and all their makua are ready for picking.

Supply and demand. If it consistantly stays low, then you need to ask a few questions, because the market traders are not beyond to trying to buy for a little as possible. Send someone to check out the price that is not connected to you.

...edit

There's a block wall around the perimeter of our place and the other day I went to check the garden about mid-day. I heard someone walking around in the back of the place near the klong so I got out the ladder and climbed up to have a peak. " Sawadee khrap" I said in a very low soft tone. The old man smiled and replied the same. He was back there fishing in the klong. We got to talking and he is also a farmer next door growing yard long beans. He picks daily and takes them to the talat in the morning.

Anyway, I invited him in to have a look at the garden. The wife talked to him and asked if he wanted to sell our makua the next day at the market. "Sure, no problem". OK, next day he stopped by and we had picked 20kg. We gave him 10 kg to sell at the market and ######. He came back the next day and said "B3 per kg". Ouch. The other 10kg we sent to the normal restaurant and we're given B5/kg.

I think "Loong", not the TV poster, got the best of me. So much for getting someone not connected to the farang!! I think he got the B5 and pocketed B2 :-(

Anyway, we sold another 15kg today to therestaurant at B5 along with 1.5kg of dried chiles at B150/kg.

This "beer garden" is great. The chiles and makuas have paid the water bill, the telephone bill, and 2/3 of the electric bill this month. Looking forward to planting more to fill in the rest of the 1 rai but....

....I cannot get the seeds, makua or chiles, to germinate. Out of 600 seeds planted one makua has germinated, I think. It may be I'm nurturing a blade of grass!!

rgds

[chownah]

Well this is the time of the year when water is still plentiful in most places and the weather is good for growing most things so I think that generally speaking this is the worst time of the year to make money. Prices should go up when the hot and dry weather gets here...but it will also be more work and for some things more skill to get a crop then.

For the seed germination....its been really cold at night and this might be inhibiting germination. I've been planting a legume green manure crop just about every month to raise seed for later planting and back in Sept, Oct, and Nov when the weather was warm, the first sprouts would be up after just 36 hours while one of my recent plantings took about 8 days for emergence and I'm pretty sure that the difference is soil temperature. I'm wondering if this could be affecting your attempts.

Chownah

Edited January 24, 2007 by chownah

[bannork]

Well this is the time of the year when water is still plentiful in most places and the weather is good for growing most things so I think that generally speaking this is the worst time of the year to make money. Prices should go up when the hot and dry weather gets here...but it will also be more work and for some things more skill to get a crop then.

For the seed germination....its been really cold at night and this might be inhibiting germination. I've been planting a legume green manure crop just about every month to raise seed for later planting and back in Sept, Oct, and Nov when the weather was warm, the first sprouts would be up after just 36 hours while one of my recent plantings took about 8 days for emergence and I'm pretty sure that the difference is soil temperature. I'm wondering if this could be affecting your attempts.

Chownah

If we assume the hot season in the North and Issan begins in March and the rainy season begins in May, it only gives 3 months for prices to really rise. I'll probably get shot down for this but I wonder about the commercial viability of makhua.

[pallasaide]

Paulsmithson

He's doing fine, thankyou for asking. All tubes and other support equipment is off him now, and he's sitting up. All the metal they stuck in has set well. There is one more op to do, but its nothing big. On Saturday he will be moved off the IC unit to a high dependancy ward. He'll be on that ward till sometime around mid-Feb then anything can happen, but at this rate its looking like he could be back home (Thailand) sometime in March.

pallasaide,

Not makua connected---just how is Tim doing now and when will he be back home.Pass on my best wishes too please

[pallasaide]

Thanks for passing on the info DV.

Sounds like the rubber tits are the way to go.

Is there any reason why these couldn't be fitted to the 3" black flexible pipe ? wall to thick ?

Anyway I have other questions/ideas but I will go & open an irrigation thread so as not to hijack the Makua any further.

Pond Life

Tim asks, exactly what type of black tubing are you talking about?

If it is the stuff that "lays flat" when it has no water in it, then no you cannot insert anything through the sidewall because of the flexibility. However, if it is the "flexible" black tubing that is made out of pvc or plastic which retains its circular shape when empty, then yes, you can insert fittings through the sidewall, no problem.

Are you perhaps talking about this second type of tubing?

D.V.

[pallasaide]

Bannork

FYI, Tim’s wife checked the prices for makua at the main wholesale market called Gateway just outside of Bangkok for the week 15^th-22^nd Jan varied between B13-B17 per kilogram. At the wholesale market in Kon Kaen is what between B9-B12. Tim was getting B6-B10 per kilo.

Also there is a glut of makua on the market at the moment. All conditions are good. But that will start to change over the next few weeks as the dry season kicks in. Tim is confident about that

D.V.

Well this is the time of the year when water is still plentiful in most places and the weather is good for growing most things so I think that generally speaking this is the worst time of the year to make money. Prices should go up when the hot and dry weather gets here...but it will also be more work and for some things more skill to get a crop then.

For the seed germination....its been really cold at night and this might be inhibiting germination. I've been planting a legume green manure crop just about every month to raise seed for later planting and back in Sept, Oct, and Nov when the weather was warm, the first sprouts would be up after just 36 hours while one of my recent plantings took about 8 days for emergence and I'm pretty sure that the difference is soil temperature. I'm wondering if this could be affecting your attempts.

Chownah

If we assume the hot season in the North and Issan begins in March and the rainy season begins in May, it only gives 3 months for prices to really rise. I'll probably get shot down for this but I wonder about the commercial viability of makhua.

[Tim207]

Tim207, how is your Makua project coming on?

You tried potatoes as well did you not?

What variety and how have you planted them?

There is a good local market for potatoes, if you can get them to grow, which in Thailand on any scale seems to be successful only in the highland areas? Tim tried once but despite following everything to the book it was a complete faliure. He done it all exactly how he was advised but the one thing he could not control was the climate, and the temperature (not the rainfall) ruined the project.

D.V.

I have only been home for a couple of weeks and am still getting back into life here. I have seeds but all I found was the same brand that failed for Somtam. I will do a test plot with these if I can't locate others. I have not checked into agriculture stores yet, these are just off the rack at a local shop.

Potatoes was not something I was looking at for the same reason I think Tim's failed. The climate down here just doesn't seem right. Maybe for someone up in the mountains.

Tell Tim that he has provided a lot of humour for Thai people around Chantaburi. My sister in law laughs every time she talks about a farang farming makhua. When we look at land she insists I tell the people why I want it. When I do, everyone laughs. I guess the picture of a farang farming makhua is funny for Thais.

[Roy Jing]

Can anyone please help diagnose what the problem is with my wifes Makhua plants?

We are living in Sydney, Australia and my Thai wife grows a broad variety of Thai vegies/ herbs/ fruit/ plants succesfully but for some reason cannot produce good makhua. She grows the small pea size Makhua Puang, as shown in the first photo, and they are excellent but the Makhua plants that are in the same soil and the same conditions do not grow properly.

She is growing 2 varieties some of which are planted in the ground in full all day sun, some of which are planted in pots using a premium purchased potting mix with cow manure added. The pots are in different locations in our garden. Some full sun and others in partial shade.

Even though we have 2 varieties and varying growing conditions and soil, the same outcome is achieved with all as you will see in the photos.

The plants seem to be fairly healthy, not covered with yellow leaves as I saw in another post. They get watered by my wife once and sometimes twice a day with a watering can as does the rest of her garden. I don't know how much water is actually applied to each plant. They have also had liquid fertiliser added as per instructions on the packet.

We would really appreciate anyones thoughts on the problem. Thanks very much.

These grow perfect.

Brown scaly surface on bottom of makhua

Roy

[turnpike]

Can anyone please help diagnose what the problem is with my wifes Makhua plants?

no expert here, but it might be a calcium deficiency called "blossom end rot". google it for more info, hope this is of some help.

[Roy Jing]

Turnpike,

Thanks for the info. I just had a quick look on google and it might just be the answer to my question. I will look into it a bit further but even if it is not my problem it has been great information to keep in mind for the future. I'm sure a few of the boys on this forum that are contemplating growing makhua or tomatoes in the future will find this very interesting.

Thanks again.

Roy

[chownah]

I think it was mentioned that Karate with Zeon was being used as an insecticide on makua crops. At this site:

http://www.syngentacropprotection-us.com/p...v=environimpact

I found this:

"This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment or residues on blooming crops or weeds. Do not apply this product or allow it to drift to blooming crops or weeds if bees are visiting the treatment area."

chownah

[pallasaide]

Tim says

Well of course it is, it is an insecticide, just what were you expecting?

Tim says he raised this issue in a posting sometime last year.

You deal with it by using drippers. Drippers leave no residue on flowers as the uptake is through the roots in the ground. Drippers also eliminate mist drift, which if you are concerned takes into consideration the odd bee taking a flight path across your field!

But if you do spray or apply through sprinklers, do so on fields between flower cycles. These will be times when foraging bees are at their lowest, and because it is been applied in the evening (as Tim has also always reccomended), by the morning it will have dried. Dried K/Z residue does not stick to the leg combs on bees well, reducing the risk of it been smeared on honey combs when the bee returns to the hive, where the real potential damage can lie (hive contaimination).

[Somtham]

edit...How much will you get daily from a 1 rai field. Well, if your crop is been looked after and is growing well you can get 20kg a day which at Baht 25 p/kg will give you a Bht 3500 p/week or Bht14 000 p/month p/rai. Do your clacs – 4rai is worth Bht56k p/month. edit...

(Tim207 @ 2006-12-17 01:52:26)

edi....I would love to hear about what kind of yields you get and how yours sales go when the time comes. edit...If you reproduce close to the figures MF quoted I think I will do about 10 to 15 rai of makua....edit

(Somtham @ 2007-01-02 18:41:43)

edit... My New Year's resolution...start an Excel spreadsheet and log daily the weight picked and then share it with you guys in a month or so....edit.

OK, so I've been collecting data for the month of January on how much we are picking. We only have 336 m^2 of land dedicated to makua right now so I used a factor of 4.76 to get a per rai number.

We picked a total weight for the month of 112.25 kg so per rai that would be 535 kg. On average we picked daily 3.26 kg so per rai 15.5 kg per day.

Our plants are new and the graph attached shows an increasing yield towards the end of the month. Also, anyone that has been following the thread may remember I've had a few problems such as weed wacking more than a few plants, over watering, plants falling over, and some worms. We seem to be past most of those issues now. We're new at this and with MF's generous knowledge sharing we're learning as we go.

Maizefarmer says in the above quote "...you can get 20kg a day..." and Tim207 says "...If you reproduce close to the figures MF quoted...". Well, yes, even a novice who has never farmed before can reproduce MF's number. As a matter of fact if the trend continues I guess in Feb we will average above the 20kg/day yield per rai.

On the graph you will see towards the end of Jan we did not pick daily. The reason being the restaurant we are selling to is using them for making gaeng and they want a bigger size and not daily. So we are now picking according to their needs.

rgds

[Maizefarmer]

Sotham

You're on the right track - thats your first crop - which looks like its just peaking around about now. You will now notice the graph yield will drop untill the next flowering - and then it is going to climb and it will climb higher than the first peak you have on your graph - and so it will go on and on like that for about 6 to 8 months.

Then you will notice the peaks so to decline - after a couple of peaks that are consectively lower than the prceeding one - thats the time to stop picking and to trim back the plant as you trim back fruti trees in orchads - you will then see the peaks to start to climb again. Repeating this cycle for the first 24 to 36 months you will see a steady increase in production after each flwoering cycle - and then afetr around 24 to 36 months you need to start thinking about replanting.

The figure I gave for yield p/rai was delibeartely set on the conservative side - didnt want to be jumped on for misleading folk - but actualy I am a little suprized at the amount you are getting already - it is up on what I anticipated u your yeild would be - its good - your obviosuly putting some effort into it.

Maizefarmer

[lannarebirth]

Sotham

You're on the right track - thats your first crop - which looks like its just peaking around about now. You will now notice the graph yield will drop untill the next flowering - and then it is going to climb and it will climb higher than the first peak you have on your graph - and so it will go on and on like that for about 6 to 8 months.

Then you will notice the peaks so to decline - after a couple of peaks that are consectively lower than the prceeding one - thats the time to stop picking and to trim back the plant as you trim back fruti trees in orchads - you will then see the peaks to start to climb again. Repeating this cycle for the first 24 to 36 months you will see a steady increase in production after each flwoering cycle - and then afetr around 24 to 36 months you need to start thinking about replanting.

The figure I gave for yield p/rai was delibeartely set on the conservative side - didnt want to be jumped on for misleading folk - but actualy I am a little suprized at the amount you are getting already - it is up on what I anticipated u your yeild would be - its good - your obviosuly putting some effort into it.

Maizefarmer

Welcome back to Thai Visa Tim. I hope you're getting stronger by the day and you're able to return home soon.

Ken

[Maizefarmer]

Cheers Ken - Im doing just fine thanks - hopefully out of here within a month.

[Somtham]

Sotham

You're on the right track - thats your first crop - which looks like its just peaking around about now. You will now notice the graph yield will drop untill the next flowering - and then it is going to climb and it will climb higher than the first peak you have on your graph - and so it will go on and on like that for about 6 to 8 months.

Then you will notice the peaks so to decline - after a couple of peaks that are consectively lower than the prceeding one - thats the time to stop picking and to trim back the plant as you trim back fruti trees in orchads - you will then see the peaks to start to climb again. Repeating this cycle for the first 24 to 36 months you will see a steady increase in production after each flwoering cycle - and then afetr around 24 to 36 months you need to start thinking about replanting.

The figure I gave for yield p/rai was delibeartely set on the conservative side - didnt want to be jumped on for misleading folk - but actualy I am a little suprized at the amount you are getting already - it is up on what I anticipated u your yeild would be - its good - your obviosuly putting some effort into it.

Maizefarmer

Good to hear from you Tim. I'll keep tracking the data and look for the peaks and fall offs as you mention so I'll know when to trim back. I think next week I'll apply the second round of fertilizer as you suggested in one of your past posts.

Funny thing about the 20 liter pails. I bought a few a while back and they disappeared!? Where did they go? Well, since I don't have a work permit my wife feeds the fish every day and I noticed she was throwing food into the ponds from those pails!! Oh well, I bought some more last week and guess what? They're almost gone. Where did they go? We're building a new patio roof and the pails are filled with tools, waisted iron, trash, cement, etc.....I need to buy more for planting :-(

rgds and good to see you back advising us novices.

thanks

[Pond Life]

Welcome back MF.

Somtam, build a shed, put a lock on it.

But, maybe they'll just take over the shed.

Can you tell me how much youre paying for the buckets, so I dont get ripped to badly when I go shopping, are they old paint buckets ? or did you have to buy new ?

[Somtham]

Welcome back MF.

Somtam, build a shed, put a lock on it.

But, maybe they'll just take over the shed.

Can you tell me how much youre paying for the buckets, so I dont get ripped to badly when I go shopping, are they old paint buckets ? or did you have to buy new ?

I've bought used ones. I stop by the recycle centers to buy them and I've gotten phone numbers of painters from hardware stores that sell paint. I've paid B15 and B20 from 2 different recycling shops and was quoted B25 from another recycle shop and a painter. I'm told you can also buy new ones at Big-C but have not checked it out.

rgds

[Tim207]

Welcome back to Thai Visa Tim. I hope you're getting stronger by the day and you're able to return home soon.

Ken

Yes, good to see you back.

[Tim207]

I've bought used ones. I stop by the recycle centers to buy them and I've gotten phone numbers of painters from hardware stores that sell paint. I've paid B15 and B20 from 2 different recycling shops and was quoted B25 from another recycle shop and a painter. I'm told you can also buy new ones at Big-C but have not checked it out.

rgds

I am thinking about using clay pots. Paw says he can get them for about 40 baht. They will be heavier to place but they won't look as ugly. Anybody have thoughts on using them?

Another question that just came up when I was picking a test plot:

My test area (the inlaws back yard) is shaded by a large mango tree and various other trees on the back half. Is partial sun ok or do makhua need full sun?

This is just a temporary test area so optimum yields are not of great importance. I just want to play a little and get some practice until I buy some better land. My test area will be flooded come rainy season so these plants are probably doomed anyway.

[Maizefarmer]

The thing about - just how much soil volume is needed to grow makua plants is an odd subject.

Of course giving the plant the space in the ground has to be a good thing - but I have seen a makua plant that was a good 5 feet high with equal diameter - growing in an average sized domestic bucket outside a Bangkok apartment!

So how much soil is needed? - good question, probebrbly a lot less than we think.

Maizefarmer

[teletiger]

Welcome back Tim, glad to see the old libido didn't get damaged.

I was mulling over your idea about black plastic covering, for the makua plants, when something came back to me. When making the dragonfruit orchard, we bought old jute corn sacks to cover the posts. 2 Baht each.

Seems to me they would make good "mulch" covers for the makua plants.

They would supress weed growth, sturdy enough to stand on, would hold any insecticide sprayed on to them, keep the earth underneath them cooler and damp, chuck a few earthworms underneath and it's a mini worm farm (forget the insecticide), will last at least for 1 year, maybe 2 and it's cheap and green.

They're heavy enough not to get blown away by the wind and will end their lives being incorperated back into the earth. Just a few thoughts.

Regards.

[Maizefarmer]

Hi TT

I see nothing wrong with that idea of yours - why not.

Tim

[chownah]

I've bought used ones. I stop by the recycle centers to buy them and I've gotten phone numbers of painters from hardware stores that sell paint. I've paid B15 and B20 from 2 different recycling shops and was quoted B25 from another recycle shop and a painter. I'm told you can also buy new ones at Big-C but have not checked it out.

rgds

I am thinking about using clay pots. Paw says he can get them for about 40 baht. They will be heavier to place but they won't look as ugly. Anybody have thoughts on using them?

Another question that just came up when I was picking a test plot:

My test area (the inlaws back yard) is shaded by a large mango tree and various other trees on the back half. Is partial sun ok or do makhua need full sun?

This is just a temporary test area so optimum yields are not of great importance. I just want to play a little and get some practice until I buy some better land. My test area will be flooded come rainy season so these plants are probably doomed anyway.

Cheap clay post usually have no glaze and are low fired so they are very permeable and water leaks out of them and evaporates off of their surface rapidly. This is can be a real problem for potted nursery or house plants but I don't know to what extent it will affect your operation....probably it will require more frequent watering though. I avoid cheap clay pots but if you decide to use them and are concerned about their permeability you could coat them with something to seal them before filling with dirt.

Chownah

[Somtham]

I seem to have another 'something' eating the makua fruit. The hole is much larger than the typical worm holes I've seen in the past. When I cut it open there is no bug inside. Could it be mice eating away at them? Here's a typical pic of the problem.

rgds

[Maizefarmer]

Somtham

Its a mouse, I havent got a clue what type other than its very small little critty, no bigger then your thumb - you will get a lot of them in the dry season especially if you use a ,mulch around the base of the plants (they love it for nesting material). Their benefit far outwieghs the damage they do - they eat loads and loads of bugs - in particular worms.

Tolerate them.

Maizefarmer

[Somtham]

Somtham

Its a mouse, I havent got a clue what type other than its very small little critty, no bigger then your thumb - you will get a lot of them in the dry season especially if you use a ,mulch around the base of the plants (they love it for nesting material). Their benefit far outwieghs the damage they do - they eat loads and loads of bugs - in particular worms.

Tolerate them.

Maizefarmer

Will do. I saw a couple of the critters when I was laying the sprinkler system last summer and yes, they are small.

rgds