Thai College Students and Plagiarism

[mijan24]

We often read from Degee holders about 3 or 4 years of study etc, the story below must place some legally (??) obtained degrees on the same level as those obtained from KSR.

http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=153435

After this how can the RPL degree be critisized??

[Casanundra]

I'm sorry but you spoke in SMS speak most of the time that I am not sure I understood half of what you said in the opening for this thread.

Are you questioning the quality of Australian degrees versus Thai degrees or the quality of degrees in general due to the impact of plagarism and plagaristic students?

Yes, I agree Plagarism does impact thesis submissions but any academic supervisor worth his / her salt will be able to spot plagarism at 50 yards and if you are on top of your own academic game then you know the legit sources from the not so legit and can spot when someone is passing off work as their own.

In Thailand specifically you can usually spot a non native speaker who has plagarised by the sudden improvement in their writing abilitiy and complex use of English or arguments in their paper. One minute they are writing with a mixed bag of confused verb tenses using simple English words and repeating what they have learned without any analysis then the next they are writing with some really complex English with lucid arguments and leading edge analysis - not too hard to spot really.

If we are talking about quality standards of different education systems around the world well I have the latest league table in front of me of the top 200 universities around the world and Australia makes its first appearance at number 16 with the Australian National university behind the other top 15 which are either US or UK based with Bejing coming in at number 14.

For those interested, Thailand makes its first appearance at number 161 with Chulalongkorn University which actually dropped down from position 121 last year.

Edited October 20, 2006 by Casanundra

[PeaceBlondie]

As for the validity of an earned bachelor degree, internationally, who can know more than a handful of reputations of universities? Oxbridge in the UK - that's two; I have no idea if my friend's Ph.D. from Univ. of Edinburgh is top notch. There are the Ivy League schools in the USA, plus maybe MIT and UC-Berkeley - but there are maybe 97 more of really high academic level. Australia - I haven't the foggiest idea which schools are best and worst.

There must be thousands of accredited unis in the native-speaking English world. And if I say my degree is from Texas A&M, there's a world of difference between their College Station branch or their branches in Laredo, Commerce, Texarkana, etc.

You can graduate with C- grades in easy courses, or with honors in difficult courses; who knows without seeing the transcript? And if degrees can be faked, so can transcripts. How many Thai administrators (or their farang DOS's) can decipher academic transcripts?

I would guess that it's only at the university level, when hiring a farang with an MA or MS or Ph.D., when the details matter very much.

Oh my......does the article cited in the original post mean to say that farangs cheat when they attend farang universities? Oh my.

[mijan24]

As for the validity of an earned bachelor degree, internationally, who can know more than a handful of reputations of universities? Oxbridge in the UK - that's two; I have no idea if my friend's Ph.D. from Univ. of Edinburgh is top notch. There are the Ivy League schools in the USA, plus maybe MIT and UC-Berkeley - but there are maybe 97 more of really high academic level. Australia - I haven't the foggiest idea which schools are best and worst.

There must be thousands of accredited unis in the native-speaking English world. And if I say my degree is from Texas A&M, there's a world of difference between their College Station branch or their branches in Laredo, Commerce, Texarkana, etc.

You can graduate with C- grades in easy courses, or with honors in difficult courses; who knows without seeing the transcript? And if degrees can be faked, so can transcripts. How many Thai administrators (or their farang DOS's) can decipher academic transcripts?

I would guess that it's only at the university level, when hiring a farang with an MA or MS or Ph.D., when the details matter very much.

Oh my......does the article cited in the original post mean to say that farangs cheat when they attend farang universities? Oh my.

PB the incident at The University of Newcastle actually involved Asian students (Malaysians) but the article reflects greater problems than just this incident and I agree "Farangs" cheating oh my

[mijan24]

I'm sorry but you spoke in SMS speak most of the time that I am not sure I understood half of what you said in the opening for this thread. Sorry about that I should have asked are Thai University Students indulging in Plagiarism?

Are you questioning the quality of Australian degrees versus Thai degrees or the quality of degrees in general due to the impact of plagarism and plagaristic students?Not just Australian degrees this is a world wide problem.

Yes, I agree Plagarism does impact thesis submissions but any academic supervisor worth his / her salt will be able to spot plagarism at 50 yards and if you are on top of your own academic game then you know the legit sources from the not so legit and can spot when someone is passing off work as their own."We will have to disagree on this point [as stated in the article there are some 8 to 10 billion pages to choose from] hence the need for a program to help and assist in detecting cases of PLAGIARISM."

In Thailand specifically you can usually spot a non native speaker who has plagarised by the sudden improvement in their writing abilitiy and complex use of English or arguments in their paper. One minute they are writing with a mixed bag of confused verb tenses using simple English words and repeating what they have learned without any analysis then the next they are writing with some really complex English with lucid arguments and leading edge analysis - not too hard to spot really.Even incorrect spelling I assume?

If we are talking about quality standards of different education systems around the world well I have the latest league table in front of me of the top 200 universities around the world and Australia makes its first appearance at number 16 with the Australian National university behind the other top 15 which are either US or UK based with Bejing coming in at number 14.[b]no I am talking about detecting and reporting cases of cheating[/b]

For those interested, Thailand makes its first appearance at number 161 with Chulalongkorn University which actually dropped down from position 121 last year.

Mijan24

Edited October 20, 2006 by mijan24

[Casanundra]

Being at the forefront of the plagaristic fight at a Thailand University I can only report on the ground what happens here and we do find the students who cheat very quickly and because students in Thailand are renowned for copying we are geared up for iy. Unfortunately the system here tends to be more geared towards exams where they learn, pass and then forget everything they learnt.

Those who do have to do a thesis tend to try and get away with plagarism but once we find them (and we almost always do) then the worst is that they just get to do it all over again on a new subject as it is very rare they will be failed or booted off the course - although I may add that this is changing on select programmes at select Universities here.

Another dimension we do is to make sure all Thesis submissions are presented in a public forum whereby their peers get to question them and whereby they do a thesis defence and its amazing how quick the ones who plagarised come unstuck as they don't understand or know their own paper sufficiently to defend it and of course we find them that way and fail them as a consequence to ggo back around from the beginning for a new paper submission.

The key to plagarism is failing them once found and doing so harshly!

[steveromagnino]

Being at the forefront of the plagaristic fight at a Thailand University I can only report on the ground what happens here and we do find the students who cheat very quickly and because students in Thailand are renowned for copying we are geared up for iy. Unfortunately the system here tends to be more geared towards exams where they learn, pass and then forget everything they learnt.

The key to plagarism is failing them once found and doing so harshly!

Totally support your efforts Casanundra; my uinderstanding is that currently all theses at a masters level must be published in an international academic journal or presented at an academic conference to be recognised, are you aware of this new requirement (as of May 2006).

[Rhys]

Continue the good fight.. I suggest that my students drop the class and start over again.

[Ijustwannateach]

If you don't mind, Mijan, I'm going to change the thread title the better to reflect the actual topic. I'd hate to have this valuable topic be taken for another one of the dreaded degree-no degree slagging matches.

"Steven"

[chrisjune]

I'm sorry but you spoke in SMS speak most of the time that I am not sure I understood half of what you said in the opening for this thread. Sorry about that I should have asked are Thai University Students indulging in Plagiarism?

Are you questioning the quality of Australian degrees versus Thai degrees or the quality of degrees in general due to the impact of plagarism and plagaristic students?Not just Australian degrees this is a world wide problem.

Yes, I agree Plagarism does impact thesis submissions but any academic supervisor worth his / her salt will be able to spot plagarism at 50 yards and if you are on top of your own academic game then you know the legit sources from the not so legit and can spot when someone is passing off work as their own."We will have to disagree on this point [as stated in the article there are some 8 to 10 billion pages to choose from] hence the need for a program to help and assist in detecting cases of PLAGIARISM."

In Thailand specifically you can usually spot a non native speaker who has plagarised by the sudden improvement in their writing abilitiy and complex use of English or arguments in their paper. One minute they are writing with a mixed bag of confused verb tenses using simple English words and repeating what they have learned without any analysis then the next they are writing with some really complex English with lucid arguments and leading edge analysis - not too hard to spot really.Even incorrect spelling I assume?

If we are talking about quality standards of different education systems around the world well I have the latest league table in front of me of the top 200 universities around the world and Australia makes its first appearance at number 16 with the Australian National university behind the other top 15 which are either US or UK based with Bejing coming in at number 14.[b]no I am talking about detecting and reporting cases of cheating[/b]

For those interested, Thailand makes its first appearance at number 161 with Chulalongkorn University which actually dropped down from position 121 last year.

Mijan24

hey casanundra, i think mijan's giving you a little hint =)

[mijan24]

Steven agree entirely, there was no intention to resurface the old chestnut D versus ND it has been hammered to death over the last few years.

It's good to see some efforts being applied to remove this problem although I think it would be in the minority especially with the Thai attitude of "mai pen rai" and the financial ramifications to the particular Uni that fails or makes poor johnny the example.

The lecturers at the University of Newcastle were aware of the problem and actually passed the students - giving distinctions etc until one disgruntled LECTURER blew the whistle. Then there was hel_l to pay all sorts of concerns about the cash cows going elsewhere (another country) - overseas students are big $$$ from memory the fees are $8000 ++ per year.

krasyboi - No not sendinf "C" a message just adding my view to the points he/she raised.

Mijan24

Edited October 21, 2006 by mijan24

[Willbkk]

I've been trying for over 2 years - to no avail- to expose a gross case of plagiarism by a senior State official who obtained a PhD at Chula using my work as a UN consultant. The university finally re-opened its investigation last year but the President's Office still refuses to disclose the outcome. The university's delay and breaches of its own rules allowed the perpetrator to sue me for multiple cases of defamation, and I even got raided by Immigration (sorry, I'm legal, and just got my Thai citizenship). Also, the Revenue Department did a tax investigation (sorry, I pay my taxes too...) and anonymous letters were sent to my employer. I have even spent a day in a court detention cell awaiting bail in a criminal defamation case, in the company of a Bangkok Post editor and journalist who were also sued, and 50 orange-clad convicts.

Plagiarism happens everywhere- it's how you manage it that distingushes the elite from the mediocre. As a matter of public interest I believe Chula (which has boasted of its 'zero-tolerance for plagiarism' policy should be called to account for its double standards for the influential and well connected, and should be forced to disclose the investigation report. It's high time Chula set up a clear system for complaints of academic misconduct, which ensures a prompt, impartial, and independent investigation, and protects the identity of the complainant.

All this has ruined my life and my love for my adopted country of 25 years. Can anyone please help?

Willbkk

[jazzbo]

Finding Applicants Who Plagiarize--Inside Higher Ed

June 23, 2010; "... Thirty applicants submitted essays that either lifted many passages straight from the article or

substantially paraphrased the article without appropriate attribution."

http://www.insidehig...10/06/23/essays