Sanders transforms into contender, still pitches revolution

[sgtsabai]

Attacking the source, a right wing rag, in this case is perfectly legit. The entire article is misleading and biased toward the rich and ignorant. Do you not understand that individuals would save money under single payer after taxes? As I said before, the real meat of the right wing propaganda is at the end, which I already quoted to you and another poster explained to you. So in answer to your question, yes I read it. It pays to know the enemy and people like those that own the Examiner are enemies of America. Surely you don't think the rich should NOT have to pay their fair share, for a change? http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/latest-absurdly-wrong-attack-bernie-sanders-plan-expand-social-security?akid=13937.85778.Qt9Kjx&rd=1&src=newsletter1049966&t=8 http://fair.org/home/steffie-woolhandler-on-media-attacks-on-single-payer-healthcare/ http://www.nationofchange.org/news/2016/01/30/bernie-sanders-targets-top-10-corporate-tax-dodgers/

[sgtsabai]

Not a lot, but some. In this case no right wingnut from the clown bus could possible get elected in a general election. There aren't that damn many crazy people in the states, even with drinking Republican purposely poisoned water. So yes, I believe the polls are pretty much right in this particular case. Ahem, they came out pretty close in the Sanders/Hillary match up in Iowa also. When going into the caucus they had it a statistical dead heat. Looks like that is how it turned out. Pretty much blew it on Trump/Cruz, the 2 crazist in the clown bus, soon to be clown car.

[chuckd]

Not a lot, but some. In this case no right wingnut from the clown bus could possible get elected in a general election. There aren't that damn many crazy people in the states, even with drinking Republican purposely poisoned water. So yes, I believe the polls are pretty much right in this particular case. Ahem, they came out pretty close in the Sanders/Hillary match up in Iowa also. When going into the caucus they had it a statistical dead heat. Looks like that is how it turned out. Pretty much blew it on Trump/Cruz, the 2 crazist in the clown bus, soon to be clown car.

' There aren't that damn many crazy people in the states, even with drinking Republican purposely poisoned water'

Do you ever wonder why nobody responds to your posts?

Wonder no more.

[sgtsabai]

http://fair.org/home/steffie-woolhandler-on-media-attacks-on-single-payer-healthcare/ Another failure to copy links, for whatever reason I can't edit, make paragraphs, skip lines etc. http://www.nationofchange.org/news/2016/01/30/bernie-sanders-targets-top-10-corporate-tax-dodgers/ Please try these links.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2016/02/01/bernie-sanders-iowa-caucuses_n_9136670.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-iowa-caucuses_us_56b02cb9e4b0b8d7c230691d

[sgtsabai]

Nope, and I don't care. I'll tell it like it is and if the ring wingnuts don't like it, well, you can't handle the truth. Flint, Michigan strike a bell? Ah, and here we have the typical and now very old right wing losing so attack the person tactic to change the subject. Cut and paste for the last link posted, please.

[Chicog]

I was reading this morning how Google funnels $8 BILLION in profits to the Cayman Islands where corporation tax is 0%.

No wonder they have just eclipsed Apple as the world's biggest corporation.

That kind of shit should be stamped all over.

[sgtsabai]

And Bernie is the only one that will. America has not suffered from a deficit crisis (sure could have done without the unfinanced illegal wars and tax cuts to the rich), it has suffered from a revenue crisis.

[boomerangutang]

Y'all are tripping. Sander's fantasy ends in South Carolina.

California is one of the last primaries and it's got the biggest number (546) of delegate votes. June 7. Bernie won't drop out before then unless he loses every contest on the way - which won't happen. He'll get most or all of New England. You can underestimate his appeal to youth and ex-hippies like me - your choice - but it should be a very interesting roller coaster ride.

Good luck.

I don't really mean that because nominating Bernie would be the same as gifting the presidency to any republican.

You do realize republicans are wishing Bernie is nominated, right?

They'll crush him into the ground.

I don't agree. Republicans are using fire-sale tactics to try and gain attention. They try to out-do each other on how draconian they can get with Mexican migrants and ISIS. Reps have little in the way of well-thought-out policy proposals which will tangibly help the middle and lower classes. Trump saying he'll be "the best jobs president in the history of the US" - is not going to cut the mustard for more than a small %. If/when Sanders gets to debating one on one with a Republican choice, Sanders will fricasse any one of them because he's well-versed on social issues. He's a career politician. Trump, in contrast, is a career wheeler dealer out to be the richest man in the Monopoly game. Trump has sound-bites, but little knowledge of social/political issues. Cruz has a better understanding of social issues but is as right wing as Bernie is left wing. Right wingers alienate the poor and struggling masses.

Someone mentioned black voters. Sure Hillary is popular with many black voters, and that's fine. Yet they don't vote as a block. Neither do Latinos. They're easy to offend (as Trump should have learned by now), but not so easy to impress. Minorities, in the US, are a mixed bag ranging from liberal, to middle-of-the-road, to (a lesser extent) right wing.

[sgtsabai]

BTW Hillary won by a coin toss, yep a coin toss. A bit why Cruz, who is a batshit crazy right wing domonionist, will loose to Bernie. And a bit on Hillary, if the links will work:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/iowa-caucus-hillary-clinton-wins-six-delegates-by-coin-toss-a6848126.html

http://www.opednews.com/populum/printer_friendly.php?content=a&id=199210

http://www.opednews.com/populum/printer_friendly.php?content=a&id=199193

http://www.opednews.com/populum/printer_friendly.php?content=a&id=199206

https://dispatchesfromtheedgeblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/hillary-and-the-urn-of-ashes/

[Jingthing]

Some minorities actually do vote as a block in general elections. Jews, gays, and blacks all will vote overwhelmingly D.

[boomerangutang]

Some minorities actually do vote as a block in general elections. Jews, gays, and blacks all will vote overwhelmingly D.

You sound like you're basing your opinions on wishful thinking rather than realities.

[sgtsabai]

He is right there, the young, blacks, other minorities do tend to vote Democrat. That is why the Republicans are doing everything to suppress their vote and gerrymander districts. They don't care how they rule, as long as they rule. Democrats have been disheartened since the Manchurian President, Obama betrayed them. If Bernie can turn out the vote, he wins. Perhaps his candidacy will be the catalyst that does start a political revolution. We damn sure need one and have had for years.

[Jingthing]

Some minorities actually do vote as a block in general elections. Jews, gays, and blacks all will vote overwhelmingly D.

You sound like you're basing your opinions on wishful thinking rather than realities.

Nope. Statistics. Look it up. Latinos are much less democratic voting than those three rock solid groups but still good for the D's.

[sgtsabai]

Yes, less voting Democratic, but not "much less", far and above they vote Democrat. And angry old white men will soon be outnumbered, tick tock, tick tock.

[Jingthing]

Nope.

MUCH less.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/11/07/hispanic-voters-in-the-2014-election/

Don't apply for any jobs as campaign manager anytime soon.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Jingthing

[sgtsabai]

Ahem, just how did you read that poll? Since 2010, the lowest yr. shown it has never been below 60% and wasn't in 2014 when Democrats failed to show up at the polls. Less than the black vote yes, but far above the old angry men vote. The only real surprise int that survey was the split vote on Senator "corndawg" Cornyn. That is a surprise as he stands for everything wrong, especially for Hispanics. Then again Texas must have some of the most ignorant voters in the nation. I know, I was cursed with having to live with the rednecks for much too long when young and again for 11 yrs. before I moved to Thailand. Don't worry, nobody would want me as a campaign manager. I think my posts pretty well exclude that job...lol. I've been involved in politics but never ever in a political campaign and I paid the price for speaking truth to the power. Like an old, old friend and my attorney that was at the time running for county judge, he is a city judge, said when I emailed him back I didn't do facebook or any social media and he should know why, "Yea, I forgot. Better idea you never do."...lol.

Bernie will have to work to turn out the Hispanic vote, no doubt about that.

[Jingthing]

Dude, I was comparing Latinos to African Americans. Cheers.

[beechguy]

I was reading this morning how Google funnels $8 BILLION in profits to the Cayman Islands where corporation tax is 0%.

No wonder they have just eclipsed Apple as the world's biggest corporation.

That kind of shit should be stamped all over.

Obama had an opportunity, and didn't do anything about it, along with several other things.

Edited February 2, 2016 by beechguy

[sgtsabai]

I missed that specific point. Agreed. beechguy, and neither will neocon/neoliberal tool of Wall Street criminals and banksters, Hillary. They are both owned by the financial crooks that run the US.

[lannarebirth]

Good luck.

I don't really mean that because nominating Bernie would be the same as gifting the presidency to any republican.

You do realize republicans are wishing Bernie is nominated, right?

They'll crush him into the ground.

Perhaps, but I don't think so. I don't see Hillary as any different than the Republicans. Same wars. same cronies, same path to economic destruction.

[Chicog]

I was reading this morning how Google funnels $8 BILLION in profits to the Cayman Islands where corporation tax is 0%.

No wonder they have just eclipsed Apple as the world's biggest corporation.

That kind of shit should be stamped all over.

Obama had an opportunity, and didn't do anything about it, along with several other things.

That old chestnut.

Congress won't do it because the GOP are paid by these corporations.

If Obama did anything with EO's they'd all be squealing about him "walking all over the constitution" (which might actually be true in that example).

[beechguy]

I was reading this morning how Google funnels $8 BILLION in profits to the Cayman Islands where corporation tax is 0%.

No wonder they have just eclipsed Apple as the world's biggest corporation.

That kind of shit should be stamped all over.

Obama had an opportunity, and didn't do anything about it, along with several other things.

That old chestnut.

Congress won't do it because the GOP are paid by these corporations.

If Obama did anything with EO's they'd all be squealing about him "walking all over the constitution" (which might actually be true in that example).

That old chestnut, blame it on Bush, and the GOP. Fact, the GOP wasn't in control of Congress when he took office.

And you wonder why foreigners get so little respect when discussing the U.S.

[NeverSure]

Sanders has labelled himself that way, socialist, so that's the deal breaker aside from the other stuff.

Of course all candidates support some socialist style programs, even the republicans.

That's not the point.

The U.S. is still not Europe. Like it or not.

America hopefully will never be like the failed states of Europe. See the muppets running the show in the EU. That's why I hope the American people make Donald trump the next president.

America as a capitalist country with all of it horrible "corporations" brought you the computer you are using and the internet it's interfacing with. It brought you most of the other software on it in addition to the operating system.

All of this within your lifetime. Before that and perhaps within your lifetime was the TV and so many other things. Now everyone has all of this but protests that they are "poorer".

We have so much more technology and convenience than our grandparents had. How can anyone say we are poorer? How did they really live? Did I mention medical breakthroughs brought to us by big corporations including Big Pharma? We live a lot longer now too. How can we say this isn't some benefit from "big business"?

A big corporation named IBM which pioneered and owns much of the infrastructure that provides bandwidth for the internet (who would have stretched out all of that cable?) published a dictionary of more than 18,000 NEW AMERICAN ENGLISH WORDS brought to us by technology. Most of them are new within the last 50 years and more than half of them are much newer than that.

BTW and for the haters, there isn't a European socialist on the entire planet who can pronounce even one of the English words in this book correctly.

Just think of all of the things you have that your grandparents didn't have and tell me where they came from, and then how you are poorer.

Cheers.

[sgtsabai]

We didn't have TV when I was a kid and I remember when the first TV station was built. My family didn't have one until I was in the 4th or 5th grade. I remember well listening to the Korean War casuality reports before the Sat. morning kid shows. America is not a completely capitalist country and what we have now is crony capitalism. It wasn't big business that made America successful, it was Unions and the working person. It was Unions that enabled decent working conditions and a decent wage. It isn't big business that creates jobs, it is the person that can afford to buy their products. It is the highways that everybody built that permits them to transport their goods. It is the police and fire that everybody pays for that protects them. Just think of all the things the former middle/working class would be enjoying now if the regulations hadn't been lifted on capitalist so the could stomp all over the working person, move businesses overseas and medicine cost much more for some of the worst medical care anywhere in the industrialized world. Just think how much more we would have today if wages had not stagnated or shrunk while all the profits go to the 1%. Just think of how much better the quality of life would be if capitalists weren't out of control and all tha money went to those that don't need it anyway. Just think how much better if Cheney/Bush et al hadn't have set the Mid-East on fire and not payed for it. Just how much better things would be if the plutocrats and corporations paid their fair share. Just think of much better our highways and bridges would be. Oh, wait, how about just think.

[Jingthing]

Paragraphs ... are a thing.

[lannarebirth]

We didn't have TV when I was a kid and I remember when the first TV station was built. My family didn't have one until I was in the 4th or 5th grade. I remember well listening to the Korean War casuality reports before the Sat. morning kid shows. America is not a completely capitalist country and what we have now is crony capitalism. It wasn't big business that made America successful, it was Unions and the working person. It was Unions that enabled decent working conditions and a decent wage. It isn't big business that creates jobs, it is the person that can afford to buy their products. It is the highways that everybody built that permits them to transport their goods. It is the police and fire that everybody pays for that protects them. Just think of all the things the former middle/working class would be enjoying now if the regulations hadn't been lifted on capitalist so the could stomp all over the working person, move businesses overseas and medicine cost much more for some of the worst medical care anywhere in the industrialized world. Just think how much more we would have today if wages had not stagnated or shrunk while all the profits go to the 1%. Just think of how much better the quality of life would be if capitalists weren't out of control and all tha money went to those that don't need it anyway. Just think how much better if Cheney/Bush et al hadn't have set the Mid-East on fire and not payed for it. Just how much better things would be if the plutocrats and corporations paid their fair share. Just think of much better our highways and bridges would be. Oh, wait, how about just think.

It's this kind of stuff that makes me uncomfortable about being on the same team as folks like you. You're spouting the politics of ENVY. You and many others it seems just like the hateful jousting. Whether it be calling the other side wingnuts, teabaggers or the reverse and just as disgusting Libtards and Demonrats. The fact is America has moved far to the right and it is the Clintons that moved them there. Bernie's agenda wouldn't be labeled Leftist 45 years ago, it would be centrist. It is an agenda that is more or less in the same place on the Political continuum as Nixon's (at least domestically it is). I would have thought you'd be old enough to know that.

As for unions, I worked for them all my life. While it is true that some employers would pay you a dime a day and a bowl of rice if they could, it is also true that the unions (at least the ones I was in) were utterly corrupt, affiliated with organized crime and looted pension funds with regularity. My experience was that when labor had the upper hand they screwed employers on the contract, when economic conditions reversed employers returned the favor. It can not have escaped your attention that most unions have endorsed HRC, who has never saved one job other than her husbands and her own. Why do you think that is?

Edited February 2, 2016 by lannarebirth

[NeverSure]

And who did the unions work for? Where did the money come from? Did the unions invent the TV or the computer? No, they got their jobs from CAPITALISTS. Unions rode the coattails of the people who invented, created, aggregated capital and built factories - capitalists.

Where does Thailand get its manufacturing jobs? Capitalists. Who made the clothes you are wearing? Capitalists.

Why are stores full of the things you need so that you can buy them? Capitalists.

Bernie wants to suck them dry in the name of socialism. He'd wind up where Russia is with everyone depending on the government instead of on his own initiative. Not only don't those people have money, but if they did the stores are empty.

[CMNightRider]

Well, I have to give Sanders credit for his sudden rise in popularity. Bernie has been marketing himself to young, gullible, economically oblivious, college-age adults who want free stuff without thinking they have to pay for it when they enter the work force. Of course the people who don't pay taxes think Sanders is great too, because they will just get more free stuff on the backs of people who do pay taxes.

The danger to America isn't Obama, Clinton, or Sanders but the people who are capable of entrusting buffoons like this with the Presidency. Never under estimate large groups of stupid people.

[lannarebirth]

And who did the unions work for? Where did the money come from? Did the unions invent the TV or the computer? No, they got their jobs from CAPITALISTS. Unions rode the coattails of the people who invented, created, aggregated capital and built factories - capitalists.

Where does Thailand get its manufacturing jobs? Capitalists. Who made the clothes you are wearing? Capitalists.

Why are stores full of the things you need so that you can buy them? Capitalists.

Bernie wants to suck them dry in the name of socialism. He'd wind up where Russia is with everyone depending on the government instead of on his own initiative. Not only don't those people have money, but if they did the stores are empty.

My experiences with unions notwithstanding. Despite some of the negatives, there can be no question that on the whole they improved working conditions and salaries for all Americans. That said, all that ended when campaign finance rules got out of whack. Government only needed to placate union leadership which is often corrupt but with big money to "invest" in politicians. Same goes for the corporate lobby. The wishes of the common man has now become superfluous to the electoral process.

[boomerangutang]

And who did the unions work for? Where did the money come from? Did the unions invent the TV or the computer? No, they got their jobs from CAPITALISTS. Unions rode the coattails of the people who invented, created, aggregated capital and built factories - capitalists.

Where does Thailand get its manufacturing jobs? Capitalists. Who made the clothes you are wearing? Capitalists.

Why are stores full of the things you need so that you can buy them? Capitalists.

Bernie wants to suck them dry in the name of socialism. He'd wind up where Russia is with everyone depending on the government instead of on his own initiative. Not only don't those people have money, but if they did the stores are empty.

You started ok, then you had to try and smear Sanders with communist-like hate rhetoric. If bringing down skyrocketing health-care costs and lessening the ability of multi-millionaires to hide their money overseas and avoid taxes is socialism ....then I'm with Bernie.

Well, I have to give Sanders credit for his sudden rise in popularity. Bernie has been marketing himself to young, gullible, economically oblivious, college-age adults who want free stuff without thinking they have to pay for it when they enter the work force. Of course the people who don't pay taxes think Sanders is great too, because they will just get more free stuff on the backs of people who do pay taxes.

The danger to America isn't Obama, Clinton, or Sanders but the people who are capable of entrusting buffoons like this with the Presidency. Never under estimate large groups of stupid people.

And who are not buffoons in your view? Reagan: the man who brought us Iran-Contra and a trillion dollar Star Wars project that didn't benefit anyone except the contractors laughing all the way to the bank.

Or perhaps Bush Jr. is not a buffoon: the man who started two unwinnable wars and was a party to a near complete meltdown of top money-handlers because he wanted a hands-off approach to regulating Wall Street scamsters.