Sanders transforms into contender, still pitches revolution

[sgtsabai]

Yes he did, I didn't refer to them and should have, one of the few good things he has managed to accomplish, just minority races, I should have been more clear. She still does look the more electable, at least in the primary, at this stage but Bernie is definitely in for the long haul and as Hillary ups the ante with more negativity, she will have to, the gloves will come off. There are surrogates for Bernie and he just picked up an outspoken anti-Clinton one that endorsed him in S. Carolina. His campaign has already said they are happy to have the endorsement but are not responsible for what he says. Hillary is well known, but much is not known about her in the general population. There are skeletons there that while not criminal will cost her votes even among the black community. Primary's are very strange creature, not easy to control, long road to travel still.

[Jingthing]

I wish the democrats had a third choice, though they did, O'Malley, and nobody noticed, and no, he wasn't a good third choice, so no loss.

HRC has that email thingie hanging over her head, and Bernie has the socialist label problem.

As bad as the republican choices are, they're a real threat this time, and they know it.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

As bad as the republican choices are, they're a real threat this time.

Especially Marco Rubio. His youth and intelligence looks pretty good compared to the old farts.

[Jingthing]

As bad as the republican choices are, they're a real threat this time.

Especially Marco Rubio. His youth and intelligence looks pretty good compared to the old farts.

Maybe. Cuts both ways. People aren't used to having a little boy president.

[Ulysses G.]

It didn't hurt JFK and wouldn't have t RFK if had

[Ulysses G.]

It didn't hurt JFK and it wouldn't have hurt RFK if he had lived.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

It didn't hurt JFK and it wouldn't have hurt RFK if he had lived.

I figured you would say that, but sorry, this Cubano chico doesn't have that kind of charisma and never will. I agree the Rs could do worse, but don't get carried away.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, he DOES. I've been watching him for a long time.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Actually, he DOES.

I'm telling you he doesn't. People aren't swooning over him. Trust me. I know about such things.

I'm not picturing him with Marilyn Monroe. More like with a Betty Crocker type.

That dude is NOT COOL. Young, yes, very UNCOOL.

Bernie is OLD, yes, but VERY COOL.

'Nuff said.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

The fact that he is a Hispanic Republican also helps a LOT.

[Jingthing]

The fact that he is a Hispanic Republican also helps a LOT.

He's Cuban. You know what that means in the Latino world, right? RIGHT WINGER! Most Latinos are NOT like that.

Seriously. I get it though. For the R's he's one of the strongest choices of those left standing now, though I still think KASICH would be the strongest and most likely to beat HRC or Sanders. Rubio is good for VP. VPs are good to be ATTACK DOGS. Rubio makes a nice little boy ATTACK DOG. Insulting? Yeah, I don't care. I hate his politics.

Anyway, that's their hardest to beat ticket -- KASICH RUBIO.

Ohio and Florida wrapped up.

If they do pick Rubio to head the ticket as the little boy with almost no experience, he'll be forced to be like Obama and pick someone senior with lots of experience. Not sure who that would be. Kasich wouldn't want that.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Jingthing

[ttthailand]

The kids love Bernie because he promises free college. I don't blame them. That would be great. But even if elected, he could never deliver that. Oh well!

cheaper to pay for their education than pay to keep them locked up in prison. They will also pay the government back in taxes when they get a job.

[Ulysses G.]

Anyway, that's their hardest to beat ticket -- KASICH RUBIO.

Ohio and Florida wrapped up.

I like Kasich too, but too boring for president. He would make a fine LBJ to Marco's JFK.

[Jingthing]

Anyway, that's their hardest to beat ticket -- KASICH RUBIO.

Ohio and Florida wrapped up.

I like Kasich too, but too boring for president. He would make a fine LBJ to Marco's JFK.

He wouldn't take it. I don't think so anyway. I don't think he is too boring. I think it's the times, the strange times when a nutcase like Trump is leading.

Anyway, New Hampshire is now or never for my long term prediction that Kasich will be a contender.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Jingthing

[NeverSure]

We wouldn't be talking about Sanders if Hillary wasn't such a loser. We also wouldn't be talking about him if the Dems put up real choices. The Dem insiders decided a long time ago to run Hillary which is a move so stupid they could patent it. Bernie's too far left and Hillary is too annoying + tainted. An alternative that was discussed was Biden.

Don't the Dems have anybody?

[NovaBlue05]

I like Bernie's Universal Healthcare position as the current US system is a mess and insurance is totally un-affordable for most people if they had to provide it for themselves. All Obamacare did was provide another boon to the corporate healthcare cartel while benefiting the lowest medicaid demographic.

Bernie's problem is that blacks and hispanics, while solidly democrat, will vote for the most mainstream candidate on the ticket....ie: Clinton. The young people who support him are notoriously apathetic in terms of actually going to the polls. This means he never makes it to the general election.

[lannarebirth]

The most successful state in America Economically is the state of Texas. Texas is a right to work state and is among the lowest in union participation even considering the states large population...

Depend on how you define success.

Doesn't Texas have the highest percentage of people with no health insurance and also the most executions?

Texas' economy is middle of the pack. It was much stronger when oil was sky high. It has now normalized with the price of oil.

[NovaBlue05]

I wish the democrats had a third choice, though they did, O'Malley, and nobody noticed, and no, he wasn't a good third choice, so no loss.

HRC has that email thingie hanging over her head, and Bernie has the socialist label problem.

As bad as the republican choices are, they're a real threat this time, and they know it.

Maybe Obama will get pizzed at the Clinton's and pull the trigger on a DOJ indictment. Then he can insert "Uncle Joe" Biden as a sympathy candidate.....lol

[lannarebirth]

Sanders needs a "come to Jesus" moment?

No, it's not what you think!

Sanders from a liberal Jewish perspective:

Why Bernie Sanders Needs a Come-to-Jesus Moment

...

But Sanders’s biggest problem lies in the essence of his message. When he talks about “political revolution,” he means rebuilding the New Deal coalition by winning back the white working class. He’d craft a broad alliance around issues of economic fairness. He basically wants to roll back the Reagan revolution and pick up where Franklin Roosevelt left off. Crucially, issues that have become Democratic touchstones — issues of culture and identity, of gender, race and lifestyle — become secondary.

http://forward.com/opinion/332832/why-bernie-sanders-needs-a-come-to-jesus-moment/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-1

Honestly, I might be starting to feel the Bern.

It should be obvious to you that all those "Democratic touchstones" are only peripherally "inclusive". They are just tiny segments of the society that can be parsed up to get to 50.01 percent of the vote. Just like the ghettos none of those constiuencies ever got satisfaction from the Dems , because if they did you risk losing that portion of the electorate. Fact is, for gays, it was the states, the majority of which have Republican governors and the marginally Republican controlled Supreme Court that finally got them what they wanted WRT marriage. And why was that? Because the handwriting was on the wall. You could feel the shift in the citizenry, week by week, month by month and government followed the public will.

The handwriting's on the wall now too. People know they have lost just as much under establishment Democrats as they ever did under Reagan. Even when they have political control they still never manage to serve the public interest and make good on campaign promises which are in their power to fulfill.

The article is wrong, it is not Sanders that needs to "come to Jesus". He's already let everybody on the bus. It's the one issue voters that are anything but inclusive beyond their self interested "identities" that need to have a chat with God's kid.. The head of the United Negro College Fund must be shaking in his boots.

Edited February 4, 2016 by lannarebirth

[Jingthing]

I like Bernie's Universal Healthcare position as the current US system is a mess and insurance is totally un-affordable for most people if they had to provide it for themselves. All Obamacare did was provide another boon to the corporate healthcare cartel while benefiting the lowest medicaid demographic.

Bernie's problem is that blacks and hispanics, while solidly democrat, will vote for the most mainstream candidate on the ticket....ie: Clinton. The young people who support him are notoriously apathetic in terms of actually going to the polls. This means he never makes it to the general election.

Well, yes and no. Obama managed to inspire more than the usual number of younger people to vote, at least for this first term. I just read today that Bernie is outpolling HRC 6 to 1 among younger FEMALE democrats. That has got to be very worrying to her campaign. They're not buying the feminist thing she's selling and going to the old man! Wow.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

Sanders needs a "come to Jesus" moment?

No, it's not what you think!

Sanders from a liberal Jewish perspective:

Why Bernie Sanders Needs a Come-to-Jesus Moment

...

But Sanders’s biggest problem lies in the essence of his message. When he talks about “political revolution,” he means rebuilding the New Deal coalition by winning back the white working class. He’d craft a broad alliance around issues of economic fairness. He basically wants to roll back the Reagan revolution and pick up where Franklin Roosevelt left off. Crucially, issues that have become Democratic touchstones — issues of culture and identity, of gender, race and lifestyle — become secondary.

http://forward.com/opinion/332832/why-bernie-sanders-needs-a-come-to-jesus-moment/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-1

Honestly, I might be starting to feel the Bern.

It should be obvious to you that all those "Democratic touchstones" are only peripherally "inclusive". They are just tiny segments of the society that can be parsed up to get to 50.01 percent of the vote. Just like the ghettos none of those constiuencies ever got satisfaction from the Dems , because if they did you risk losing that portion of the electorate. Fact is, for gays, it was the states, the majority of which have Republican governors and the marginally Republican controlled Supreme Court that finally got them what they wanted WRT marriage. And why was that? Because the handwriting was on the wall. You could feel the shift in the citizenry, week by week, month by month and government followed the public will.

The handwriting's on the wall now too. People know they have lost just as much under establishment Democrats as they ever did under Reagan. Even when they have political control they still never manage to serve the public interest and make good on campaign promises which are in their power to fulfill.

The article is wrong, it is not Sanders that needs to "come to Jesus". He's already let everybody on the bus. It's the one issue voters that are anything but inclusive beyond their self interested "identities" that need to have a chat with God's kid.. The head of the United Negro College Fund must be shaking in his boots.

Speaking of which:

http://atlantaunfiltered.com/2010/12/06/michael-lomax-united-negro-college-fund-ceo-1-27-million-2/

Those numbers 5 years old but I'm guessing they've only increased. That's what the "establishment" looks like. Parasites who never manage to make anything better but are paid handsomely to stir the pot. Egalitarian solutions are the LAST thing they want. Thousands of organizations like that on the left and right that feed on dysfunction and gridlock.

Edited February 4, 2016 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

"Boomer's note: It's beyond ironic that Bernie haters keep harping on the word 'socialism.' How many billions of federal dollars were shoveled to Wall Street and large corporations & banks to bail them out? Was is the 700 billion which Paulson wanted?"

...Answer...

On December 19, 2014 the U.S. Treasury sold its remaining holdings of Ally Financial, essentially ending the program. TARP revenue has totaled $441.7 billion on $426.4 billion invested.

...Moral of the story...

A profit of $15.3 Billion. If only the US Postal Service could do as well.

A more accurate accounting:

https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

Keynesians, eh?

• chuckd, NeverSure and SpokaneAl like this

[NovaBlue05]

I like Bernie's Universal Healthcare position as the current US system is a mess and insurance is totally un-affordable for most people if they had to provide it for themselves. All Obamacare did was provide another boon to the corporate healthcare cartel while benefiting the lowest medicaid demographic.

Bernie's problem is that blacks and hispanics, while solidly democrat, will vote for the most mainstream candidate on the ticket....ie: Clinton. The young people who support him are notoriously apathetic in terms of actually going to the polls. This means he never makes it to the general election.

Well, yes and no. Obama managed to inspire more than the usual number of younger people to vote, at least for this first term. I just read today that Bernie is outpolling HRC 6 to 1 among younger FEMALE democrats. That has got to be very worrying to her campaign. They're not buying the feminist thing she's selling and going to the old man! Wow.

Jing- Hats off to him if he is able to drag them away from their play stations long enough to vote en-masse. Obama was a bit of an exception back in '08 because the media quickly abandoned the love affair with the idea of the first woman President in favor of the more exotic first black President. Bernie , on the other hand is only being given just enough media coverage to try to give the impression that Clinton isn't running un-opposed. The optics appear pretty clear that this time the media has circled their wagons around Hillary.

[lannarebirth]

Sanders needs a "come to Jesus" moment?

No, it's not what you think!

Sanders from a liberal Jewish perspective:

Why Bernie Sanders Needs a Come-to-Jesus Moment

...

But Sanders’s biggest problem lies in the essence of his message. When he talks about “political revolution,” he means rebuilding the New Deal coalition by winning back the white working class. He’d craft a broad alliance around issues of economic fairness. He basically wants to roll back the Reagan revolution and pick up where Franklin Roosevelt left off. Crucially, issues that have become Democratic touchstones — issues of culture and identity, of gender, race and lifestyle — become secondary.

http://forward.com/opinion/332832/why-bernie-sanders-needs-a-come-to-jesus-moment/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-1

Honestly, I might be starting to feel the Bern.

It should be obvious to you that all those "Democratic touchstones" are only peripherally "inclusive". They are just tiny segments of the society that can be parsed up to get to 50.01 percent of the vote. Just like the ghettos none of those constiuencies ever got satisfaction from the Dems , because if they did you risk losing that portion of the electorate. Fact is, for gays, it was the states, the majority of which have Republican governors and the marginally Republican controlled Supreme Court that finally got them what they wanted WRT marriage. And why was that? Because the handwriting was on the wall. You could feel the shift in the citizenry, week by week, month by month and government followed the public will.

The handwriting's on the wall now too. People know they have lost just as much under establishment Democrats as they ever did under Reagan. Even when they have political control they still never manage to serve the public interest and make good on campaign promises which are in their power to fulfill.

The article is wrong, it is not Sanders that needs to "come to Jesus". He's already let everybody on the bus. It's the one issue voters that are anything but inclusive beyond their self interested "identities" that need to have a chat with God's kid.. The head of the United Negro College Fund must be shaking in his boots.

Speaking of which:

http://atlantaunfiltered.com/2010/12/06/michael-lomax-united-negro-college-fund-ceo-1-27-million-2/

Those numbers 5 years old but I'm guessing they've only increased. That's what the "establishment" looks like. Parasites who never manage to make anything better but are paid handsomely to stir the pot. Egalitarian solutions are the LAST thing they want. Thousands of organizations like that on the left and right that feed on dysfunction and gridlock.

Kinda interesting reading the comments section of that link. The Koch brothers had just made a $25 Million donation to the UNCF. Seems like unlikely bedfellows, right? Not really, because both parties have a strong vested interest in nothing ever getting better. The UNCF hierarchy and the Koch's both thrive in a dysfunctional status quo.

Anyway, didn't mean to single out the brothers. There are thousands of examples of this kind of parasitic dysfunction inside the Washington Beltway.

[Publicus]

The excellent Bernie Sanders threads have tended to unfortunately attract a series of assorted posts that range from the anarchistic to deep into the realm of nihilism. So some balance and perspective need to be restored.

I support virtually everything Bernie Sanders says in respect of the issues and concerning the life and times of the contemporary USA.

However many comments and beliefs held by some who say good things about Bernie and his campaign say things Senator Sanders has not ever said, implied, suggested.

Bernie Sanders is for one thing not out to bust the United Negro College Fund or to condemn it for any reason. Nor does Sen Sanders try to mitigate or try to reduce the financial corruption of the Koch Bros by saying they're not the only guilty ones.

It is also the case that Republican governors had no role in promoting GLBT rights, demolition of DOMA or in realising marriage equality. So for the Republican party and others on the far out socio-cultural and political right to make the claim is absurd. Bernie Sanders would laugh out loud at any such statement about Republicans anywhere in any capacity.

The point is that one who says he in a desperate pinch would prefer the Bern over HR Clinton has designs and purposes that are outside of the chalk lines that mark the field of play.

Senator Sanders is not talking about blowing up the system to start over again. His impact will be real, strongly present, longer term and absent explosions.

Still however, Bernie misuses the word "revolution." While USA was founded in revolution, so was the Islamic Republic of Iran and so was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Some Americans might today be more receptive of a self-styled 'revolutionary' than they were in the mid-1990s when then Speaker Gingrich declared himself a revolutionary to such an alarm in middle America that the Newt had to toot out of the speakership. Yet it remains the case that being a self-declared and appointed "revolutionary" is not going to win voters to gain a party's nomination nor would it win over the broad electorate in the general election.

Being a revolutionary just ain't what it used to be. For one thing, there's too much of anarchism and nihilism that attaches to it while also pretending to be revolutionary too.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Publicus

[lannarebirth]

The excellent Bernie Sanders threads have tended to unfortunately attract a series of assorted posts that range from the anarchistic to deep into the realm of nihilism. So some balance and perspective need to be restored.

I support virtually everything Bernie Sanders says in respect of the issues and concerning the life and times of the contemporary USA.

However many comments and beliefs held by some who say good things about Bernie and his campaign say things Senator Sanders has not ever said, implied, suggested.

Bernie Sanders is for one thing not out to bust the United Negro College Fund or to condemn it for any reason. Nor does Sen Sanders try to mitigate or try to reduce the financial corruption of the Koch Bros by saying they're not the only guilty ones.

I didn't say he was out to bust the UNCF, but if college becomes free (something I don't support BTW) the UNCF becomes superfluous, as do those really high paying executive positions, which is why these "establishment" figures don't support Bernie, despite the stated goals of their organizations.

It is also the case that Republican governors had no role in promoting GLBT rights, demolition of DOMA or in realising marriage equality. So for the Republican party and others on the far out socio-cultural and political right to make the claim is absurd. Bernie Sanders would laugh out loud at any such statement about Republicans anywhere in any capacity.

I didn't say that Republican governors were pushing GLBT rights. I said the change in GLBT rights came about as a result of rights that were first enacted at state level and in the Supreme Court and not through any national legislative push. It's just an interesting aside that most states and the Supreme Court have Republican majorities. Ironic...or not.

The point is that one who says he in a desperate pinch would prefer the Bern over HR Clinton has designs and purposes that are outside of the chalk lines that mark the field of play.

So all that bullshit was just in order to set up this specious foundation for your commentary?

Senator Sanders is not talking about blowing up the system to start over again. His impact will be real, strongly present, longer term and absent explosions.

Still however, Bernie misuses the word "revolution." While USA was founded in revolution, so was the Islamic Republic of Iran and so was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Actually, I agree with you here. I see his policies as very centrist and not revolutionary at all. I assume he's speaking in the context of how right the nation has moved, most especially the Democrat party. I wish he'd cut it out.

Some Americans might today be more receptive of a self-styled 'revolutionary' than they were in the mid-1990s when then Speaker Gingrich declared himself a revolutionary to such an alarm in middle America that the Newt had to toot out of the speakership. Yet it remains the case that being a self-declared and appointed "revolutionary" is not going to win voters to gain a party's nomination nor would it win over the broad electorate in the general election.

Being a revolutionary just ain't what it used to be. For one thing, there's too much of anarchism and nihilism that attaches to it while also pretending to be revolutionary too.

Edited February 5, 2016 by lannarebirth

[boomerangutang]

Texas is a success? You been hitting the Jose' Quervo a bit hard? I lived in Texas (unfortunately) for the beginning years of my life and the last 11 mind boggling years before escaping the mad house of rednecks, racists, and just plain dumb asses. Right to work, oh yea, right to work for less and as a slave of the employer. The right to be fired at will with no protection. It was the unions that forced Dupont in Orange to take better care of their employees than the other companies at the other refiners. They freely admitted it. None of you that worked for a living would have ever made as much as you did if it had not been for unions. And now a bit of information (not from a right wingnut rag) for those that still believe Bernie's plans will cost more than the plutocrats plans or the Republican health care plan "don't get sick, if you do die and die quick". Damn right it will cost the rich more, it should. http://dollarsandsense.org/archives/2015/1115friedman.html http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2016/0116friedman.html

For the average American, half the money they spend, in their lives, on medical, is during the last 2 weeks of their lives.

[helpisgood]

As bad as the republican choices are, they're a real threat this time.

Especially Marco Rubio. His youth and intelligence looks pretty good compared to the old farts.

I think the Koch brothers agree with you about Rubio. He may just be the strongest of the so-called "establishment candidates" for the GOP.

To what degree will Rubio be beholden to the Koch brothers after getting so much of the Koch's money and support? You would think that savvy and experienced business people know how to keep strings attached.

I think that what's so appealing about Bernie with his "no super PACs."

Edited February 5, 2016 by helpisgood

[Publicus]

 

Bernie Sanders is for one thing not out to bust the United Negro College Fund or to condemn it for any reason. Nor does Sen Sanders try to mitigate or try to reduce the financial corruption of the Koch Bros by saying they're not the only guilty ones.

I didn't say he was out to bust the UNCF, but if college becomes free (something I don't support BTW) the UNCF becomes superfluous, as do those really high paying executive positions, which is why these "establishment" figures don't support Bernie, despite the stated goals of their organizations.

It is also the case that Republican governors had no role in promoting GLBT rights, demolition of DOMA or in realising marriage equality. So for the Republican party and others on the far out socio-cultural and political right to make the claim is absurd. Bernie Sanders would laugh out loud at any such statement about Republicans anywhere in any capacity.

I didn't say that Republican governors were pushing GLBT rights. I said the change in GLBT rights came about as a result of rights that were first enacted at state level and in the Supreme Court and not through any national legislative push. It's just an interesting aside that most states and the Supreme Court have Republican majorities. Ironic...or not.

The point is that one who says he in a desperate pinch would prefer the Bern over HR Clinton has designs and purposes that are outside of the chalk lines that mark the field of play.

So all that bullshit was just in order to set up this specious foundation for your commentary?

Senator Sanders is not talking about blowing up the system to start over again. His impact will be real, strongly present, longer term and absent explosions.

Still however, Bernie misuses the word "revolution." While USA was founded in revolution, so was the Islamic Republic of Iran and so was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Actually, I agree with you here. I see his policies as very centrist and not revolutionary at all. I assume he's speaking in the context of how right the nation has moved, most especially the Democrat party. I wish he'd cut it out.

Some Americans might today be more receptive of a self-styled 'revolutionary' than they were in the mid-1990s when then Speaker Gingrich declared himself a revolutionary to such an alarm in middle America that the Newt had to toot out of the speakership. Yet it remains the case that being a self-declared and appointed "revolutionary" is not going to win voters to gain a party's nomination nor would it win over the broad electorate in the general election.

Being a revolutionary just ain't what it used to be. For one thing, there's too much of anarchism and nihilism that attaches to it while also pretending to be revolutionary too.

The claim relative to the example of the United Negro College Fund chooses in my judgement a wrong example. That said however, the claim against UNCF as a civil instance of an overriding self interest that is all consuming is extreme. Self-preservation is indeed a factor in life and in economics among other things, however, you would assign individual self-interest as the only and single motivating factor at UNCF, and anywhere else for that matter. Few realities are so simple. The reason you ascribe for UNCF to be created and to continue to exist is assigned; it is not found nor is it discovered. The reason offered is ideological rather than empirical. It is assigned by, among others, ideologues of the right; the racially oriented on the right; nihilists, anarchists etc.

As for GLBT constitutional issues, the claim "most states" have some kind of "Republican majority" is laughable. Republicans are a minority and they are fewer than Democrats in the aggregate registration data. Republicans for the office of potus haven't won 300 or more electoral college votes in several general elections. Further, Republicans had nothing to do with applying the Constitution to GBLT Americans. It is feeble to attempt to associate radically reactionary militant Republicans and other rightwhingers on the fringe with progress in gay life issues, and it is laughable besides.

Your final comment about the Democratic party moving farther right misses the past eight years and it neglects (or also misses) the radical rush of the Republican party base to the most politically extreme far out rightwhingenut racial and sexist fringes to include the economy.

You're definitely not feeling the Bern.

[lannarebirth]

Bloviating...

Still however, Bernie misuses the word "revolution." While USA was founded in revolution, so was the Islamic Republic of Iran and so was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Blah, blah blah....

Being a revolutionary just ain't what it used to be. For one thing, there's too much of anarchism and nihilism that attaches to it while also pretending to be revolutionary too.

I think maybe Bernie uses revolution in this context:

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell