It is finally here - Samsung 1TB Portable SSD T1

[SpaceKadet]

Thanks for the benchmarks Pib. So what Samsung is promising for the T1 might very well be true.

I'll might get myself the Orico enclosure to play with. Only problem might be lack of driver support on Windows 7.

A have an Asus X99 build here, and with "AI Suite" I have the option to enable UASP on SATA3, but since I don't have any UASP enclosures, it's grayed out.

I also have a ThinkPad T420s currently running Windows10 Pro on test, but I'm not sure what USB3 chip it uses.

Can you see what's the controller in the Orico case?

I have been doing some price comparisons, and an 1TB mSATA (Samsung 850EVO) in an enclosure is just marginally cheaper than T1 (source Amazon.com).

[Pib]

SpaceKadet,

OK, here comes possibly information overload...you owe me beer if you find it helpful.

1. The Orico enclosure contains the ASM1153E controller according to my Win 10 Devices display when I plug the enclosure to the computer...see snapshot below. And here is a link for more info on the ASM1153E controller: Link

2. You remember I said I had a Samsung 850EVO 500GB drive in my other laptop, a Lenovo i5 CPU based machine. I took the 850EVO out of that computer and put it in the Orico enclosure and ran CrystalDiskMark. I was surprised at some of the small files "low" write speeds...I ran the benchmark twice and got basically the same results again. Below is a snapshot of the results when running in the Orico USB 3.0 UASP enclosure....look at the low 4K file size write speed.

3. I then put the Samsung 850EVO back into the Lenovo i5 CPU based laptop to run the benchmark again but of course this time it's on the computer's SATA port as the primary drive. Big difference in small files write speed....it's now back up to full speed...write speeds are great....see the snapshot below. Don't know why when in the USB enclosure the 850 performed so poorly on the write speed for small files.

4. OK, I know put the Seagate SSD back into the Orico enclosure and ran the benchmark again just to make sure something has not happened to the enclosure. Nope, the enclosure is fine as the small file write speeds are great with the Seagate SSD....see the snapshot below. So, there is just something that the 850EVO does not like small file write speed wise when in a USB enclosure...or at least the Orico enclosure maybe.

5. Regarding TRIM for the Samsung T1, apparently it does have TRIM capability built into its firmware. However, below is a quote from another forum where a customer asked Samsung Tech Support about TRIM support on the T1 and here's the answer from Tech Support. I "think" the Tech Support guy is saying the T1 has TRIM capability but it can't be utilized since TRIM commands can not be transmitted via a USB connection...only SATA. If so, then the T1 don't use TRIM just as a regular SSD put in a USB enclosure box can not use TRIM. So, why pay extra for a T1 SSD in comparison to a regular SSD unless the T1 smaller size is a must? Maybe see if you can still find a Seagate 600 Series SSD for sale since we know it speeds right along in an Orico enclosure.

http://forums.storagereview.com/index.php/topic/37369-samsung-portable-ssd-t1-review-discussion/?p=289325

Trim is supported on the T1. However, neither Microsoft nor Apple currently support issuing TRIM commands through the USB interface on their current OS. We’re exploring additional methods of forcing TRIM – including manually through the Samsung SSD Magician software. However we do not anticipate having a solution prior to the launch of the product.

Over and out for now...if you find this info helpful you owe me a beer if we ever meet.

[SpaceKadet]

Your posts have been educational and helpful Pib. Beer is on me when I make it to the low rise Western Bangkok!

OCZ Toolbox can issue TRIM command, so no reason Samsung Magician shouldn't be able to. Have not found this option on the latest release yet...

Anyways, there are some funnies with the Samsung drives. Perhaps it's the controller or the peculiarities of the V-NAND. I have an M.2 XP941 as boot drive on the Asus X99 build and while the sequential speed is over 1GB/s, it scores lower than the OCZ Vertex460 on AS SSD Benchmark... go figure...

Edit:

OK, but is the TRIM supported on the Orico enclosure? How can you find out on Windows... I thought you could just turn it on or off on Windows. I have to admit, I'm not that great with MS software.

Edited March 1, 2016 by SpaceKadet

[taotoo]

But when the dust settles handling small files takes much longer than large files as proven in benchmark after benchmark on SSDs or HDDs.

I doubt this is true in relation to imaging. Apart from anything else, truly small files will be in the MFT, and I imagine that just gets copied in its entirety, without the imaging process even being file-aware.

[SpaceKadet]

...So, why pay extra for a T1 SSD in comparison to a regular SSD unless the T1 smaller size is a must?...

Actually, a standard size 1TB SSD can be more expensive than T1 depending which drive you use. 850Pro with Orico will set you back almost 20,000 baht.

I also see that Samsung T3 is becoming available up to 2TB. http://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-portable-ssd-t3/

[Pib]

@SpaceCadet,

TRIM is initiated by the Operating System...not by Magician...you don't even have to run Magician with a Samsung SSD...it's just a nice to have utility. Now Magician does have a Performance Optimization selection which effectively does a one time TRIM function if you have a Samsung 840...for an 840 Magician will offer a Standard and Advanced selection and the Standard selection can only be run once as it does a combo firmware update and read/rewrite of your entire SSD but does not destroy/affect any of your data. The Advanced selection can be run anytime/multiple times as it basically just does a read/rewrite. I have a 840 in my primary laptop and its running Magician.

However, for the Samsung 850, Magician works differently (at least on my Win 10 second laptop). Magician does "not" offer the Advanced selection...maybe because of hardware/firmware differences between the 840 and 850. And for the 850 the Standard selection is basically greyed-out/can't be run (at least on my machine) with a note saying its not supported on Win 8 or higher OS. I guess this means it may support it on Win 7...I don't know.

Maybe it's time to move on from Win 7 as it's now a legacy operating system. I upgraded to Win 10 on 29 July 15, day 1 of the public release, and it has worked jsut fine on my primary Lenovo laptop. And less than a month ago I bought second laptop, another Lenovo, loaded Win 10 without any problems and have not had any problems. Of course, transitioning/upgrading to a later version OS version goes well for some and not for others...everyone's results will vary. I do still run Win 7 on a 10 year Toshiba laptop that cannot be upgraded to Win 10 due to the laptop's incompatible video chip...that laptop will go to its grave with Win 7 on it....and I'm sure it will be in that grave before the Jan 2020 date when Microsoft drops all support/critical updates for Win 7.

[Pib]

...So, why pay extra for a T1 SSD in comparison to a regular SSD unless the T1 smaller size is a must?...

Actually, a standard size 1TB SSD can be more expensive than T1 depending which drive you use. 850Pro with Orico will set you back almost 20,000 baht.

I also see that Samsung T3 is becoming available up to 2TB. http://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-portable-ssd-t3/

Yea, a "Pro" version is signifiantly more pricier than a standard model....and really the benchmark speed increase is very little more...also highly doubtful you would notice any real world difference. But if you need/want the absolute fastest the Pro version is the way to go.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Pib

[SpaceKadet]

But when the dust settles handling small files takes much longer than large files as proven in benchmark after benchmark on SSDs or HDDs.

I doubt this is true in relation to imaging. Apart from anything else, truly small files will be in the MFT, and I imagine that just gets copied in its entirety, without the imaging process even being file-aware.

Copying small files will incur the overhead of the filesystem. Very small files will take a big performance hit updating the metadata, journaling etc. This has to be done for every file. Imaging, on the other hand, is just a bit copy, sector by sector. Just like a "dd" Linux command. Only possible overhead is to read allocation table for unallocated sectors to speed up the operation.

I know how *nix/Linux filesystems work, but I would suspect NTFS is not that much different.

[SpaceKadet]

...TRIM is initiated by the Operating System...

True in the case of Windows, not true in the case of Linux. There you have to issue the TRIM command manually, or as a script that runs at system startup or at cron times on a filesystem basis (the directory tree or drives in Windows parlor). There are currently some big discussion which Linux filesystems you should TRIM.

Example from one of my Linux boxes, here I'm issuing TRIM for the filesystem containing user home directories at boot time:

/usr/sbin/fstrim /home

As I said, OCZ Toolbox has the option to issue TRIM command to supported drives,and there is no reason that Magician couldn't do just that.

If I knew the Windows APIs, it would probably be quite easy to write a quick and dirty to do just that.

[Pib]

As nice to know for anyone concerned about TRIM on a "SSD" when connected to a USB port if you are using Macrium Reflect Free (or even a paid version) for your imaging/backups and assuming you are running version Macrium 6 that came out late last year, Macrium Reflect 6 does include TRIM support even on a USB port. See below quoted from page 24 of the Macrium Reflect Users Manual where it talks new features in version 6..

New in Version 6
SSD TRIM support
This features provides automated SSD optimization resulting enhanced SSD performance and longevity. Writing to
an unused block is much quicker than an in-use block as it avoids both the slow erase operation and the read-modifywrite
cycle. This results an increase of both the lifetime and the performance of the device. It is effective for all
windows operating systems, even those that support SSD trim natively as the file system driver can only TRIM
blocks on de-allocation; it cannot TRIM blocks written by another process. It is also effective for USB attached SSDs.

An then another quote from a Macrium webpage over-viewing ver 6 new features.

SSD Trim support
This features provides automated SSD optimization providing enhanced SSD performance and longevity.

And then you can see it again here at below Macrium webpage where it compares the features of their various releases, free and paid for. I notice SSD Trim support is under the Restore function so that raises a question in my mind of does that mean it only performs TRIM on a USB SSD when restoring/reloading of an image backup or also during the actual imaging/backing-up as implied to me in first quote above from page 24 of the manual. Oh, well, seems every time I find the answer to one computer related question on my mind it ends up generating another question to find the answer to.

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

[Pib]

Over the last few days I have done some more googling on "TRIM via a USB connection/port" and have come to the conclusion TRIM is not accomplished on a USB port; only a SATA/eSATA port.

Now I did run across a few posts where some folks said they were pretty sure some Corsair USB SSD had the capability, but that might just be a myth. And I'm only talking Windows here as I don't know squat about Linux or Apple OSs. Found no shortage of very creditable articles/webpages/posts saying TRIM doesn't work over USB...and of course found some posts from people who said it did, but usually in the same thread several folks would say no, it don't and explain why. But those few who said it worked didn't seem creditable in support of their statement...they seemed just to be making an assumption. Plus quite a few web articles says TRIM does not work over USB for Windows (not to imply it works on other OSs such as Linux/Apple). It seems to be a "hardware" issue as to why TRIM will not work over a USB connection.

Windows 10 and 8 have more robust TRIM commands than Win 7. On Win 10 and 8 the TRIM command has some specific command parameters for SSDs, where the Win 7 command does not. To test whether I could execute a TRIM command to my SSD in the external USB enclosure I used all three TRIM/Optimize options/methods shown at this TensForums webpage and each one failed when trying to TRIM the USB SSD...but worked fine for a SSD on a SATA port. In the first option you can be fooled into thinking TRIM (Optimize) worked, because it appears to complete a very fast TRIM process but the date of the TRIM does not update because there was really an underlying error/reject (that's why it appeared to complete so fast)...the error/reject message can be seen when initiating the TRIM command from the Command Prompt or Power Shell windows (the other options). In fact, doing it one way it would first say 100% complete making you think for a second it worked but then an error message appeared saying it didn't...I guess the 100% complete just meant I tried to run TRIM, I'm 100% done trying, and there was an error. Here's some links regarding the TRIM command on the EightFormum for Win 8 and SevenForum for Win 7.

Here's one more weblink that gives a good explanation of TRIM/garbage collect...how a SSD stores data...how data is more efficiently rewritten with TRIM compared with no TRIM.

My googling also indicated the lack of TRIM is not a big deal on current day SSDs due to their better firmware for garbage collection compared to early SSDs, not imply TRIM is still not good to have because it is. I expect the Samsung T1 SSD firmware has excellent garbage collection capability to mostly offset the lack of TRIM capability...and maybe some special TRIM replacement software you can occasionally run to optimize the SSD. Only in those cases when the SSD is approx over 90% full that the lack of TRIM may slow down the SSD write speed significantly. And lack of TRIM also increases write application which is not a good thing but really no longer a major issue with current day SSDs due to their long lifespan compared to early SSDs.

What I decided to do is occasionally (maybe twice a year) is run TRIM on the SSD contained in the USB enclosure by putting the SSD on a SATA port and run the TRIM command...force a TRIM operation since TRIM does run on a SATA port. I only have laptops so I ordered a Caddy to replace the DVD Drive I have in a laptop with a HDD/SSD Caddy. The DVD Drive on this particular laptop is easily/quickly removed....just remove one screw from the bottom of the laptop and pull out the DVD Drive, and replace it with the Caddy containing the SSD. Since the DVD Drive slot is a SATA port I can then run TRIM on the SSD. Run the TRIM command which should only take a few minutes to complete on the SSD...then replace the Caddy with the DVD....SSD goes back into the USB enclosure...good for another amount of time...or should I say piece of mind TRIM is getting occasionally run on the SSD.

I could just leave the Caddy/SSD in the laptop but I need to use the DVD drive occasionally and I want the SSD in an external enclosure so it's mobile. I ordered the Caddy off Ebay a today...cost less than $9 USD including shipping from China...will take 2 to 4 weeks to get it based on my experience with other Ebay buys from China to Bangkok....could have probably bought it locally with some looking but I was able to confirm with the seller with a few emails that the caddy will work in my particular laptop and I'm in no rush...it's more than just fitting properly, the hardware/electronics between the caddy and computer need to get along.

In closing, since it appears Macrium supposedly does TRIM on SSDs only during "Restore Process" (which I rarely do unless I had a major problem and have to reload/restore an earlier image/backup) Macrium may just be taking credit for Windows automatically/naturally doing TRIM on a "SATA" port. And where Macrium uses some weasel words of "Is Also Effective for USB attached SSDs" since I know the TRIM command does not work on a USB port, I just don't know what they mean by "effective"....sounds like there is some fine print which they don't talk about.

[taotoo]

In closing, since it appears Macrium supposedly does TRIM on SSDs only during "Restore Process" (which I rarely do unless I had a major problem and have to reload/restore an earlier image/backup) Macrium may just be taking credit for Windows automatically/naturally doing TRIM on a "SATA" port. And where Macrium uses some weasel words of "Is Also Effective for USB attached SSDs" since I know the TRIM command does not work on a USB port, I just don't know what they mean by "effective"....sounds like there is some fine print which they don't talk about.

Macrium doesn't seem to be the sort of company that would use weasel words, it might just be badly written. I suspect it's only talking about restoring (which I do regularly using the delta restore feature of the pro version), but you could google wilderssecurity macrium reflect and post on that thread - there is somebody knowledgeable on both Reflect and trim, and he may well know the answer.

[SpaceKadet]

You have done some serious research Pib. Appreciated for all the clarifications.

I will order the Orico USB box next week and play with it myself. As I mentioned earlier, the OCZ Toolbox has a button to issue TRIM command to the SSD. This button is disabled when the drive is in my old USB-SATA enclosure. And there is also the Linux fstrim command.

But as I suspect, and you voiced it too, the T1 might not even need the TRIM. The SSD controller in the T1 is made by Samsung, and might very well have improved and much different garbage collection. After all, T1 is built specifically as a USB SSD drive and not just a general USB-SATA enclosure.

[Pib]

And here's a snapshot of attempting to run/force the Otimize/TRIM command on the SSD in the external USB enclosure (Drive E) in Windows Power Shell. As mentioned earlier for a second in says 100% complete (reaching 100% complete in less than a second...way too fast...should take a couple of minutes if TRIM had not been run for a while) and then gives the error message in red text.

And then giving TRIM a try in the Command Prompt (Admin) window...once again the 100% completes very fast followed by an error message saying the requested operation is not supported by the hardware (i.e., the USB connection/controllers). In the Command Prompt window mode you actually use the Defrag command using the parameter of /L which initiates a reTRIM of the SSD vs doing a Defrag which you have no need to do on a SSD. As FYI, Win 7 Defrag command does not use the /L parameter, but Win 8 and 10 can since they have more robust capability in this area.

OK, lets now force a TRIM on my SSD on the laptop internal SATA port. It successfully completes within a few seconds...normally it would take longer but just today I had run a Performance Optimization on the SSD (which does a bunch of things plus forcing TRIM) using the Samsung Magician software so there really nothing to TRIM so it completed fast. I use this feature on Magician for the Samsung 840EVO every six months or so for gee-whizzes....I don't really need to since TRIM is always being used along with the firmware garbage collection...I don't think the feature exists for a 850EVO since it's hardware/firmware is a little different...probably a little better since the 850 is newer. Just wanted to show the command results when it successfully runs---no error message.

[Pib]

But as I suspect, and you voiced it too, the T1 might not even need the TRIM. The SSD controller in the T1 is made by Samsung, and might very well have improved and much different garbage collection. After all, T1 is built specifically as a USB SSD drive and not just a general USB-SATA enclosure.

Yea, I expect the T1 firmware garbage collection is finely tweaked to work just fine without ever needing TRIM. Even this AmandTech early 2015 article on the T1 says they couldn't get TRIM to work on the T1 but also said Samsung made no claims the T1 hadTRIM capability.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8885/samsung-portable-ssd-t1-review

Even though CrystalDiskInfo reports TRIM as a feature, we were unable to get it to work through the bridge configuration. In any case, Samsung also doesn't make any claims about TRIM support. S.M.A.R.T data was not visible to most of the commonly used tools. On the USB 3.0 side, the drive supports UASP (USB-attached SCSI Protocol) that should provide increased performance for sequential transfers. Claimed transfer rates are 450 MBps for sequential accesses and 8K read IOPS / 21K write IOPS. We also have hardware-accelerated AES-256 encryption.

[Pib]

Time for me to go to bed...but one final post for tonight. From downloading the T1 FAQ doc from the Samsung support website, it basically says/implies your computer needs to be USB 3.0 "UASP" capable to get full speed for the T1. As mentioned earlier, I expect any computer made within the last few years does have USB 3.0 "UASP" and BOT capability versus just the original USB 3.0 "BOT only" capability. BOT is more than enough for hard drives but it falls way short for SSDs...UASP is needed for SSDs.

[Pib]

I could just leave the Caddy/SSD in the laptop but I need to use the DVD drive occasionally and I want the SSD in an external enclosure so it's mobile. I ordered the Caddy off Ebay a today...cost less than $9 USD including shipping from China...will take 2 to 4 weeks to get it based on my experience with other Ebay buys from China to Bangkok....could have probably bought it locally with some looking but I was able to confirm with the seller with a few emails that the caddy will work in my particular laptop and I'm in no rush...it's more than just fitting properly, the hardware/electronics between the caddy and computer need to get along.

Got that caddy from Hong Kong today...actually I just noticed I had some mail in my box and there the caddy was...I had not checked mail yesterday or even maybe the day before....it could have arrived earlier. But assuming it arrived today, it took 13 days to arrive...Hong Kong based Ebay seller to my Bangkok home.

I put a SSD in the caddy, installed the caddy into my laptop DVD drive slot (of course removing the DVD drive first), fired up the laptop and the drive was showing...and I could successfully run the Retrim command on the SSD since the DVD slot is a SATA port...and runs at SATA speeds just like your primary drive SATA port. I also tried a hard disk drive in the caddy and it worked fine also. I may just leave the caddy with SSD or HDD in the laptop as my second drive and get a external DVD drive for my occasional DVD/CD need.

Just as nice to know here is the Ebay Link to the caddy I bought off Ebay...$8.26/Bt287 (free shipping) that fit into my Lenovo laptop....different caddys for different computers so be sure to buy one for your computer model....my computer model was not list with this particular caddy but in some emails with the seller I confirmed it would worked with my model. The seller has a 99.9% rating and I now know ships stuff fast and not by slow boat so I just may review his other items to see what I may need. Before ordering the caddy I had two emails back and forth asking some questions...always responded with 24 hours and in perfect English. Just FYI.

[SpaceKadet]

Thanks for info. Good to know the stuff can arrive here in decent time. How did you pay on eBay? I am now waiting for my battery from Aliexpress.

I have only one laptop that could use a caddy. ThinkPad T420s. Currently I'm using it as a Windows 10 testbed with 500GB Samsung 850EVO. Most things work apart from the WAN modem. Lenovo removed support for Win10... Not sure I would need additional drive instead of DVD drive.

The other one I have is an X1 Carbon, internal mSATA drive and no external bays... If I could find a bigger mSATA that would fit in X1 it would be nice. It's only 250GB and dual boot Win7/Linux...

[Pib]

I always pay via PayPal. This is not my first Ebay shipment from the China/Hong Kong that arrived in less than two weeks...one time I got an item in 6 days...but there are other times it takes 3 to 4 weeks...all depends on the type of shipment used by the seller and how fast they get it shipped....I never pay for expedited shipment....I just go with whatever free/low cost shipment the seller offers. I expect my average shipping time is somewhere between 2 to 3 weeks.