Thai school corruption I was not aware of!

[willyumiii]

I have an eight year old daughter who is very sharp, but always requires help with her homework.

Last night I told her that homework is to reinforce what you have been taught by the teacher in class and asked if her teacher had covered the material in class.

Her reply was," no it is not covered in class."

She then told me that the teacher explains the homework assignments after school to the students who's parents pay extra to the teachers for extra classes.

She also said that the students who take these extra classes are prepped after school for any tests or quizzes given in class the following day.

I once worked at this school and was aware that many teachers teach extra classes after school to earn extra money, but found it hard to believe that they conducted class in this way.

I discussed it with my Thai wife,who is still teaching at this school and she told me it was a common practice and was also common years ago when my wife was a student.

I think this is outrageous and very unfair to the students who do not pay for "extra instruction" after school.

Tutoring is to reinforce what is learned in class a good idea,

but teachers making extra money by charging parents to teach students what they should be learning in class is just another form of corruption in Thai schools and very unfair to many students, in my opinion!

Edited March 1, 2016 by willyumiii

[lovelomsak]

That has been common in thai government schools,for years. The children who have parents that will pay for after school classes get taught. the one who donot take lessons learn on their own.Nothing is taught in the classroom. My first wife taught mat 6 Thai language at a government school. At the first of the year simply gave instructions what to learn and where to research it and seldom did a class.The wife would sign in every morning then do what ever she wanted but teach..Kids need help come to private lessons.

[gerryBScot]

What you are describing is the tip of the ice berg! In the worst schools, of which there are a lot, every one at every part of the chain has some sort of money making scheme to supplement their income; your post describes one level, at the senior level it involves taking back handers from publishers for agreeing to use their books; at the recruitment level, it means teachers paying for jobs; it all leads to the state of affairs described in the link below.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/special-reports/881664/declare-education-in-a-state-of-emergency

[Jessi]

Corruption in Thai schools is rampant.

Mrs Jessi is also a teacher but got out because of all the B/S, she just got fed up.

Corruption is at all levels. One private school in the Chonburi area, it will cost between

500K and 1 million Baht just to get your child in.

[cgphuket]

Not just government schools. I worked at an international school in the north where some teachers made extra money tutoring the subjects they taught during the day, after school. I could not understand how this was ethical? If one teaches well during their class, why do they need to give extra help on the same subject for extra money?

[Langsuan Man]

Thainess, explains it all

[eldragon]

It was once suggested to me that corruption related to education generates more money than any other form of corruption in Thailand. That might be an exaggeration, but I bet it's up there.

[condo bought]

Very, very common here. To the point of almost being the norm.

The Thai teachers don't teach what they are supposed to during their classes.

Then give extra lessons after school, for cash, where they do their job and teach what they are supposed to.

Of course, them being disciplined or fired for this would make them lose face, so on it goes.

Welcome to Thailand, Thais, and Thai culture OP.

Beautiful, isn't it.

[eldragon]

I also find it very odd how many teachers are engaged in tutoring their own students after school. I mean, whatever happened to office hours and the concept of asking your teacher for help. I always assumed the parents realize how bad the education system is here and feel obligated to give their children an edge wherever they can. But it still seems really scummy when you hear teachers soliciting "extra classes".

[condo bought]

They really need to clear out the educational system and start again from scratch.

And the police.

And the.....

[slipperylobster]

OP is correct...this does happen.

[condo bought]

I also find it very odd how many teachers are engaged in tutoring their own students after school. I mean, whatever happened to office hours and the concept of asking your teacher for help. I always assumed the parents realize how bad the education system is here and feel obligated to give their children an edge wherever they can. But it still seems really scummy when you hear teachers soliciting "extra classes".

Not soliciting.

Forcing.

If you don't pay, they don't teach. Your kid goes uneducated. Even though it is their job and duty to teach them during normal class time.

[willyumiii]

I also find it very odd how many teachers are engaged in tutoring their own students after school. I mean, whatever happened to office hours and the concept of asking your teacher for help. I always assumed the parents realize how bad the education system is here and feel obligated to give their children an edge wherever they can. But it still seems really scummy when you hear teachers soliciting "extra classes".

Office hours??

When I worked at this school, teachers spent 17 out of 40 hours per week in the classroom.

The rest of thos 40 hours were spent in their "office hideaway". eating, sleeping, playing games on the office computers, chatting on Facebook and gossiping....

Mostly eating and sleeping while getting paid.

The poor students knew better than to violate this sancturay and actually ask for help with their education.

**Correction: The teachers and administration do put considerable time and effort into thinking of reasons to cancel classes as well.

Edited March 2, 2016 by willyumiii

[PT4]

Thank you, willyumiii, for starting this useful topic.

[PT4]

It was once suggested to me that corruption related to education generates more money than any other form of corruption in Thailand.

​+1

​

High levels of corruption in education would explain a lot of otherwise puzzling behavior here. Thank you, "el" for posting that.

[DavisH]

Corruption in Thai schools is rampant.

Mrs Jessi is also a teacher but got out because of all the B/S, she just got fed up.

Corruption is at all levels. One private school in the Chonburi area, it will cost between

500K and 1 million Baht just to get your child in.

Yet many of those schools are worthless....

Our private school has a strict policy regarding teaching ones own students - it is not allowed. However, I'm aware of a part timer who was pulling that trick.

This is why only the wealthy get an education in this country....pay up or learn nothing.

[RawboneFunksta]

Teachers are paid so poorly as are police officers. The real fault lays in a system perpetuated by a semi-feudal stystem that favours the rich and powerful.

Most schools, even the 'best' schools never give a grade below 50% even to a student who has not attended class.

The PTA's are so powerful here, they influence educational policy even as far as the choice of coursebooks.

If they have a stupid child thsat child will still benefit from being in the top or elite stream despite their inability.

Face-making and corruption at all quarters and levels.

Teachers are at the bottom of the pile . . . . inadequate though most of them are, they are paid very poorly

[maewang99]

Quite seriously. I have taught at a Thai university and several high schools, including a top ranked one for an entire province. Education means two things... everywhere, not just in Thailand. One is to acquire a love of learning, and usually that's something special that happens. The other is indocrination and obedience. In Thailand, education is about the latter almost wholly. That's why nothing can make a Thai teacher more happy and proud than to oversee a student diligently copying another students work or something straight out of a book or off the internet etc. As one example, but a good one. The Thai system also rewards those who are good at memorizing what they are told, and not ever questioning any of it. Assessments are done just so there is paperwork. This is the way it is for almost all public and private schools in Thailand. School is also about having fun. It's very depressing to think about or be a part of it in any manner. In Thailand, "student" is someone of a certain age who attends school or university. In the west, if you ever stop being a student you never were a student. Very different concepts and culture. I have yet to live in any major Thai town or even a provincial capitol and know, or even know who to ask, where the main branch public library is. Let alone the local branch. Hospital? yeah. Airport? yeah. Post office? Yeah. Local public library? Nope. At home I can find my way to a local library with my eyes closed.

Edited March 2, 2016 by maewang99

[maewang99]

What's this "teachers are not paid well"? The contract wannabes are paid peanuts, yeah. But the civil service staff do quite nicely and they get retirement benefits that most folks cannot ever obtain, even in the private sector. Maybe Bangkok is different, because of the cost of living or something but compared to the average Thai.. are you kidding me? The only folks that drive a car in my village are the police and teachers. How are they not well paid? And they have steady employment once they get in. They are set and many even have a 2nd business, for more money and not to subsist, once they make civil service. Their medical care as a retiree is two orders of magnitude better than any of the other health care systems here; free, first class, for life. The number one thing for most of us.. if we don't have that kind of benefit such as western military retirees have, is to keep money saved up, that we don't dare spend at all, to pay for our health care. I doubt that even BUPA really does cover everything no matter how old you get. To not have that worry at all is a very different thing. You can spend whatever you get your hands on. Whoaa, isn't that cool? That ain't the way it is at all for most folks, especially most Thai which means rural folks.

Edited March 2, 2016 by maewang99

[lostinisaan]

What's this "teachers are not paid well"? The contract wannabes are paid peanuts, yeah. But the civil service staff do quite nicely and they get retirement benefits that most folks cannot ever obtain, even in the private sector. Maybe Bangkok is different, because of the cost of living or something but compared to the average Thai.. are you kidding me? The only folks that drive a car in my village are the police and teachers. How are they not well paid? And they have steady employment once they get in. They are set and many even have a 2nd business, for more money and not to subsist, once they make civil service. Their medical care as a retiree is two orders of magnitude better than any of the other health care systems here; free, first class, for life. The number one thing for most of us.. if we don't have that kind of benefit such as western military retirees have, is to keep money saved up, that we don't dare spend at all, to pay for our health care. I doubt that even BUPA really does cover everything no matter how old you get. To not have that worry at all is a very different thing. You can spend whatever you get your hands on. Whoaa, isn't that cool? That ain't the way it is at all for most folks, especially most Thai which means rural folks.

Most teachers older than 50 I know own several houses and they do have a great salary.

Once they reach retirement age, they usually become the head of something and receive a huge raise.

The only "not so rich" teachers seem to exist in villages. But even they are able to drive a car, got their own houses. etc.

Edited March 2, 2016 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

Corruption in Thai schools is rampant.

Mrs Jessi is also a teacher but got out because of all the B/S, she just got fed up.

Corruption is at all levels. One private school in the Chonburi area, it will cost between

500K and 1 million Baht just to get your child in.

Yet many of those schools are worthless....

Our private school has a strict policy regarding teaching ones own students - it is not allowed. However, I'm aware of a part timer who was pulling that trick.

This is why only the wealthy get an education in this country....pay up or learn nothing.

I have come to the conclusion that only those students are good whose parents can afford some tutoring on the weekend.

What amazes me is that they really teach from 4 to 5 pm, "only charging 50 baht per kid and hour".40 x 50 = 2,000 baht times five= good money.

. The "ordinary lessons" are used for farcebook updates and other nonsense extracurricular activities.

[eldragon]

What's this "teachers are not paid well"? The contract wannabes are paid peanuts, yeah. But the civil service staff do quite nicely and they get retirement benefits that most folks cannot ever obtain, even in the private sector. Maybe Bangkok is different, because of the cost of living or something but compared to the average Thai.. are you kidding me? The only folks that drive a car in my village are the police and teachers. How are they not well paid? And they have steady employment once they get in. They are set and many even have a 2nd business, for more money and not to subsist, once they make civil service. Their medical care as a retiree is two orders of magnitude better than any of the other health care systems here; free, first class, for life. The number one thing for most of us.. if we don't have that kind of benefit such as western military retirees have, is to keep money saved up, that we don't dare spend at all, to pay for our health care. I doubt that even BUPA really does cover everything no matter how old you get. To not have that worry at all is a very different thing. You can spend whatever you get your hands on. Whoaa, isn't that cool? That ain't the way it is at all for most folks, especially most Thai which means rural folks.

Most teachers older than 50 I know own several houses and they do have a great salary.

Once they reach retirement age, they usually become the head of something and receive a huge raise.

The only "not so rich" teachers seem to exist in villages. But even they are able to drive a car, got their own houses. etc.

Another similarity between teachers and police officers is they buy their way into the best schools and beats. That should tell you all you need to know about the benefits.

Btw, can we just turn this into a thread about general corruption associated with schools? Someone mentioned kickbacks associated with textbook publishers. I've always imagined the same to be true with teaching agencies. I'm also told the financial officers are very powerful people at schools and tend to garner sexual favors from some of the young teachers.

Edited March 2, 2016 by eldragon

[kannot]

What's this "teachers are not paid well"? The contract wannabes are paid peanuts, yeah. But the civil service staff do quite nicely and they get retirement benefits that most folks cannot ever obtain, even in the private sector. Maybe Bangkok is different, because of the cost of living or something but compared to the average Thai.. are you kidding me? The only folks that drive a car in my village are the police and teachers. How are they not well paid? And they have steady employment once they get in. They are set and many even have a 2nd business, for more money and not to subsist, once they make civil service. Their medical care as a retiree is two orders of magnitude better than any of the other health care systems here; free, first class, for life. The number one thing for most of us.. if we don't have that kind of benefit such as western military retirees have, is to keep money saved up, that we don't dare spend at all, to pay for our health care. I doubt that even BUPA really does cover everything no matter how old you get. To not have that worry at all is a very different thing. You can spend whatever you get your hands on. Whoaa, isn't that cool? That ain't the way it is at all for most folks, especially most Thai which means rural folks.

Most teachers older than 50 I know own several houses and they do have a great salary.

Once they reach retirement age, they usually become the head of something and receive a huge raise.

The only "not so rich" teachers seem to exist in villages. But even they are able to drive a car, got their own houses. etc.

Another similarity between teachers and police officers is they buy their way into the best schools and beats. That should tell you all you need to know about the benefits.

Btw, can we just turn this into a thread about general corruption associated with schools? Someone mentioned kickbacks associated with textbook publishers. I've always imagined the same to be true with teaching agencies. I'm also told the financial officers are very powerful people at schools and tend to garner sexual favors from some of the young teachers.

They all make me want to puke, they have only their own interests at heart not only that squeal and tell and things will get nasty.

Condo and security guards............Wife sells/rents them, recently security guards have "appointed" themselves as the agent for the building, even using the security company's time to go to rooms next door to "show" customers rooms who ask, on top of that we had a complaint recently a tenant had his own maid come to the building, this was not liked by the security team as they can " supply their own" maid if you want one and they made some comment to the maid who came.

They really need a damn good slapping but are in cohorts with the building manager.......greed greed greed all at the great big trough.

Edited March 2, 2016 by kannot

[willyumiii]

Teachers are paid so poorly as are police officers. The real fault lays in a system perpetuated by a semi-feudal stystem that favours the rich and powerful.

Most schools, even the 'best' schools never give a grade below 50% even to a student who has not attended class.

The PTA's are so powerful here, they influence educational policy even as far as the choice of coursebooks.

If they have a stupid child thsat child will still benefit from being in the top or elite stream despite their inability.

Face-making and corruption at all quarters and levels.

Teachers are at the bottom of the pile . . . . inadequate though most of them are, they are paid very poorly

On teacher's pay..

At the school I worked at for a couple of years and my wife still works at,

the younger teachers, still fresh from the university get paid only 9,000 - 10,000 per month. ( not a bad income for rural Thailand where they claim the average ( non farmer ) Thai income is about 30,000 per month.

As a result, most either still live with their parents or share a small apartment or house with three or four other young teachers. and seek additional work where ever they can find it.

The older, well established teachers are paid 60,000 - 80,000 per month.

Some of them have started, but don't teach at, weekend schools that they hire the low paid teachers to teach at...at a low wage.

Many own houses or apartments that the rent to, guess who? the low paid, young teachers.

Now, as for the grades of the students,

One of the reasons I quit teaching was that I was told that every student will pass, even those who rarely attended class and learned nothing.

I was told ,with a wink and a smile, to keep retesting and retesting them until they got a passing score..

In other words " save yourself time and frustration by just giving them a passing score the first time", no matter how poorly they did.

The whole system is set up for the older teachers and administrators to accumulate as much money as possible with the absolute minimum effort on their part.

I do not think the education of the students is even a consideration.

This combined with the fact that I did not really need the money they were paying me, was enough to make me walk out.

Edited March 2, 2016 by willyumiii

[Rhys]

Access to education, means you can come to class and sit, learning something substantial means paying extra....

Sadly does it still go on say at the R....bahts.....

Edited March 2, 2016 by Rhys

[LazySlipper]

Quite sad actually. I have told this to many people and no one believed me. When asked for the tests a month before the exams I even confronted my HOD about this and I was told that Thai schools did not do teach the exams prior. It was quite funny because the Thai assistant's tutoring business was booming even if she couldn't speak a lick of English.

[321Rich]

I do not have a child enrolled in a Thai school but if I did I would try really hard to encourage (as in show) them how to use Google searches, including knowing facts from fiction, and Wikipedia resources. The future is “digital” and unfortunately, library support is clearly declining in quality and community support.

[condo bought]

Teachers are paid so poorly as are police officers. The real fault lays in a system perpetuated by a semi-feudal stystem that favours the rich and powerful.

Most schools, even the 'best' schools never give a grade below 50% even to a student who has not attended class.

The PTA's are so powerful here, they influence educational policy even as far as the choice of coursebooks.

If they have a stupid child thsat child will still benefit from being in the top or elite stream despite their inability.

Face-making and corruption at all quarters and levels.

Teachers are at the bottom of the pile . . . . inadequate though most of them are, they are paid very poorly

Choosing a career with low pay is of course an excuse for extortion.

[Langsuan Man]

How can anyone wonder why corruption has such a strong hold in this country !

Do the parents think the children live in a vacuum and don't know what is going on. Of course they know what is happening so they are raised with the expectation and knowledge that paying bribes is a normal part of life here

Monkey see, monkey do comes to mind

[condo bought]

A society where leading by example, duty, responsibility and duty of care are all alien concepts.

Money is God.

Morals and integrity before self-advantage are for the stupid.