No Earth Wiring on Lights Around New Swimming Pool !

[JonoM]

Hi there

I live on an estate where a new swimming pool is being built for the residents. As I took a walk past the pool the other day to see how the work was coming along I noticed that they had begun installing the wiring around the pool for the under water lighting and lighting around the pool (I presume?).

As I looked at the wiring I was a bit concerned to see that there appeared to be no earth wire!

Am I correct and should I be worried about this? I think I know the answer but though I would double check here before I contact the manager of the estate to tell them my concerns.

Below are some pics of the wiring.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

[sappersrest]

12 volt dc Via transformers .The transformers must be earthed though.

[SwimmingPoolsThailand]

Underwater swimming pool lights are manufactued and supplied with a bonded (non removable) 2-core cable, usually 2,5 m long. This cable is designed for easy access to the light for servicing without draining the pool and should never be cut or shortened. There is no earth wire. A concrete pool itself is earthed by earthing rebar at some point, but whre the connection cannot corrode.

It's nice to see that the constructor knows about using deck boxes which are essential if the bonded cable is to be installed correctly.

[IMHO]

As Sapperest rest noted. most pool lights these days are low-voltage LED. No need for the lamp itself to be earthed, just the transformer that powers them needs to be earthed, but that happens in the equipment room.

[JonoM]

Thanks for the replies and info regarding swimming pool wiring etc.

Glad to hear that my concerns were unfounded.

[sappersrest]

To quote the forum sponsor.

"Underwater swimming pool lights are manufactured and supplied with a bonded (non removable) 2-core cable, usually 2,5 m long. This cable is designed for easy access to the light for servicing without draining the pool and should never be cut or shortened."

Looking at the photos one would hope that the cables in conduit going to the pool wall are draw wires and not intended to be connected directly to the lamps .DO NOT LET THEM CUT THE CABLE ATTACHED TO THE LAMP

[Chaichara]

let's hope they are simply draw wires. If not, it's one of the grossest signs of incompetency on the part of anyone who even dares to call himself a pool builder. That said, I once saw a pool constructed so that the dirty backwash was plumbed straight back into the pool. Someone should find out otherwise there will be hell to pay.

[Crossy]

++ many on the above posts.

Please do talk to the contractor, it is still possible they intend installing (lethal) mains powered underwater lights which have been the cause of many tragedies in hotel pools in Thailand.

[Chaichara]

++ many on the above posts.

.......which have been the cause of many tragedies in hotel pools in Thailand.

A reliable source is needed for that claim.

I have never heard of 220V pool specific underwater lights being installed in Thailand since at least 20 years. As far as I know, no such lights are available here either. The respectable brands of lights are on sale here such as Emaux (the most widely represented) with other brands such as Pentair, Hayward, Spa Electric and Astral which are all available but ( probably not in stock) poorly supportred here by the manufactuerers. No pool constructor would dream of using anything other than 12V, and if they wanted to install 220V lights they would have to import them specially.

Lets's not get too paranoid (a common ThaiVisa trait), but these red wires coming out of the conduit in the wall had better be simply draw wires otherwise:

• It would be near impossible to make a professional waterproof connection that would fit in the tube
• it would no longer be possible to service the light while there is water in the pool
• No pool lights are cheap and the manufacturer would refuse guarantee if the bonded cables on the lights were cut or shortened. Any cheaper lights are junk from China and not sold with a warranty anyway, and they really are notorious for early failures.

[sappersrest]

Mains voltage

Not sure about Thailand but more common i thought.

http://www.miamidade.gov/permits/library/brochures/swimming-pool-light.pdf

Never really thought they even existed!!! after nearly 30 years in the pool industry.

[Crossy]

Well maybe not 'many' pool electrocutions from mains lights but enough, when combined with those from poolside equipment that's way too many, only 150,000 hits for 'pool electrocution Thailand'.

If those are draw wires, why two and why so fat, one would normally drop a tape through.

Far, far better to be paranoid than dead!

[Chaichara]

The typical ThaiVisa paranoia concerrs the use of 220V.

It is blatantly obvious that the electrician intends to connect the 12V cables to the lights without using the correct method as described in the instructions that came with the lights or by simply using the grey cells stored with the knowledge of correct procedure for swimming pool installation.

[SwimmingPoolsThailand]

It needs to be pointed out that the cables that are delivered attached to quality underwater lights is specially approved cable for use in situations where it is immersed in water. This is also a significant step up from cables that are marketed as 'weatherproof'.

The two red wires in the photograph are NOT sheathed with secondary insulation of any kind and are not approved for permanent immersion in swimming pool water. This is a very serious issue and one that should be brought to the attention of the customer or the party who awarded the contract for the pool refurbishment.

The video here, (which incidentally shows an Emaux E-Lumen LED panel in the tank) shows how to repair or to effect a waterproof connection, but this system will only work with niche lights due to the bulk of the completed joint.

[JonoM]

OK. Thanks for the additional replies. Now I'm slightly worried!

When talking about draw wires, do you simply mean a wire that is used to attach to the wire on the swimming pool light unit and then used to pull the wire through to wherever it has to go? If yes, then I'm not sure they are, as there doesn't seem anywhere to pull they wires through to. Everything is already encased in yellow PVC pipes.

I will try speak to the contractor (or my wife will) to check to see that it is only going to be wire up to a 12v power supply.

Will go and have another look at the pool this evening and take some more pics if I can. Its unlikely that anymore work has been done though, as its taken about 2 years to get the stage we are at now.

[Chaichara]

I think our sponsor and one or two other posters explained quite well that draw wires are simply things that are used to pull a larger electric cable through a conduit. proper electricians use a long thin steel band that wind up into a container when it's not being used- a bit like one of those very long tape measures. It has a small brass knob on the end to enable it to be pushed along the conduit to the other end where it will hook up with the wire to be pulled through through, usually though, buildiers will already prepare the conduit with a thin draw wire for the same purpose. Indeed, quality flexible conduit, for example[le, already comes with a draw wire inside it.

From your photos, whatever the builder has in mind and whatever lights he intends to install, it is absolutely not within the most fundamental rules of swimming pool construction or electrical installation and is a typical "I think this is how it's supposed to be done, but I'm not going to lose face by asking anyone". Which we have all come to know so well.