Is it even possible to stay here legally without a degree?

[qwertymerk]

So..

1. You need a degree to get a work permit

2. You're not allowed to work on a visa

Is there any LEGAL way of doing it without a degree? I'm 23 years old, what are my options?

[sunnyjim5]

A degree is not a specific requirement for obtaining a work permit.

What "profession", skill or trade are you going to offer an employer ?

A job with a Thai employer/Company is needed before a work permit and appropriate visa can be obtained

[ubonjoe]

A degree is not required to get a work permit unless the job requires one.

[elviajero]

1. No

Yes

You only need a degree if the job/employer require it.

[qwertymerk]

A degree is not a specific requirement for obtaining a work permit.

What "profession", skill or trade are you going to offer an employer ?

A job with a Thai employer/Company is needed before a work permit and appropriate visa can be obtained

I have completed my TEFL course so I'm looking to teach. However, the majority of teachers I've met who are teaching here are all working on Educational Visa's because they don't have degrees. I don't fancy doing it the illegal way so I'm just trying to find a way to stay here legally.

I have enough money to start a small business so that's another option.

What do you think is the better option?

[sunnyjim5]

Neither option is in MHO viable.

The TEFL might enable you to obtain a low paid job with a language school but you will never be able to secure a legal teaching position with that qualification alone.

Business in Thailand is not easy and you will need to undertake due diligence. You will then discover that operating a small business is not feasible without meeting many retirements including the need to employ four Thai people.

I would suggest you concentrate on improving your qualifications or undertake some training which will provide you with marketable skill(s).

Edited March 3, 2016 by sunnyjim5

[elviajero]

I have enough money to start a small business so that's another option.

What do you think is the better option?

Thailand is not really welcoming or set up for small businesses that employ a foreigner. Nothing stopping you investing in a business and receiving income, but you will only be able to work for the business if you are employed and hold a work permit. In order to be employed a company will be needed and the costs and bureaucracy required make this an impractical non starter for most.

[Colabamumbai]

As a native English speaker, a white Canadian, after 100 hours in a Thai school on an Ed. Visa I was employed as a resort manager in Korat, to improve the owners English and to market the property internationally.

Credentials were 3 year College Diploma in International Trade/Import, Export, major.

For the next 4 years I have been an English teacher, in a variety of schools in Isaan.

Only the last school did I voluntarily submit a copy of my degree. I worked for 4 schools with only a college diploma, but I can speak Thai.... This carries a lot of weight...

I am 65 years old.

[Colabamumbai]

A degree is not a specific requirement for obtaining a work permit.

What "profession", skill or trade are you going to offer an employer ?

A job with a Thai employer/Company is needed before a work permit and appropriate visa can be obtained

I have completed my TEFL course so I'm looking to teach. However, the majority of teachers I've met who are teaching here are all working on Educational Visa's because they don't have degrees. I don't fancy doing it the illegal way so I'm just trying to find a way to stay here legally.

I have enough money to start a small business so that's another option.

What do you think is the better option?

Come to Kalasin many schools will hire you 30,000 Baht a month.

Want my old job at a college? you can apply in person? in Kalasin? pm me.

[sunnyjim5]

A degree is not a specific requirement for obtaining a work permit.

What "profession", skill or trade are you going to offer an employer ?

A job with a Thai employer/Company is needed before a work permit and appropriate visa can be obtained

I have completed my TEFL course so I'm looking to teach. However, the majority of teachers I've met who are teaching here are all working on Educational Visa's because they don't have degrees. I don't fancy doing it the illegal way so I'm just trying to find a way to stay here legally.

I have enough money to start a small business so that's another option.

What do you think is the better option?

Come to Kalasin many schools will hire you 30,000 Baht a month.

Want my old job at a college? you can apply in person? in Kalasin? pm me.

Will these schools or the "college" provide all the paperwork necessary for the OP to obtain a "B" visa and work permit ?

Or will they expect the OP to work, illegally, on a string of tourist visas ?

[SWW]

I worked in IT (mostly as a programmer) in the UK from 1987 to 2004, but I have no degree. I have lived in Thailand from 2004, and have been working here (with work permits) since 2005 for a few companies, in the IT field.

I believe that the only job for which a degree is pretty much required in Thailand, is teaching (you need a degree to get the teaching certificate, and you need the teaching certificate to get a work permit). For everything else, it's up to whether or not an employer wants to employ you with the skills/qualifications you do have. If you have good experience (or interview exceptionally well) you can probably legally get a job in Thailand, but it is unlikely to be in teaching if you don't have a degree.

Also, it helps to know people. This is important everywhere, but is especially important for an expat. Building up a good network takes a lot of time and patience, though. Something old people tend to tell young people is that they should start small and work their way up. This is absolutely the best (possibly only, without a LOT of luck) way to make any headway in a country where you don't know the language and you don't know lots of people.

To answer the question though - yes, it absolutely IS possible to live in Thailand without a degree. It's just made more difficult because you can't do the 'default' job that people tend to think of as the last resort: teaching English.

[crickets]

I teach at language school with no degree and have work permit. I make good money but i stay on non o visa. I cant get the non b.

[Mr Wonderful]

I have enough money to start a small business so that's another option.

What do you think is the better option?

Thailand is not really welcoming or set up for small businesses that employ a foreigner. Nothing stopping you investing in a business and receiving income, but you will only be able to work for the business if you are employed and hold a work permit. In order to be employed a company will be needed and the costs and bureaucracy required make this an impractical non starter for most.

Being on my second business in 12 years here I can tell you that it is a total nightmare. You also need a lot more than the minimum money shown on BOI site and Then you have a minefield to traverse even if you get so far as having approval to set up a business here.

[wvavin]

You can do anything you like in Thailand as long as you have the money.

[Suradit69]

Why do you want to stay in Thailand? If you have enough money to start a small business, why not come here for a holiday and then go back to start a business or improve your qualifications back home.

Either teaching or attempting to start a small business with the notion that you'll end up here on a paid vacation will not be anywhere near as attractive as you may imagine. Teaching conditions, especially at the low end and with shady immigration status, can be difficult and unpleasant. Whatever small business you're thinking of starting probably has been tried by numerous more experienced foreigners, 95% of whom failed.

You may regard all the comments in this thread as overly discouraging, but really what you're planning has a high probability of ending poorly.

[yellowboat]

Do you want to teach or live in Thailand ? Cambodia is a much easier place to set up and more opportunities will come your way. Many expats make money teaching or making food there. This is probably the worse time to set up in Thailand.

[recom273]

I have come across a few people recently, who if they are to be believed ( and I think I do ) have WP without degrees.

One guy had a 1 year non-b on arrival from Aus, he got a gig with a dodgy language school who placed him as an office manager, he had some dodgy diploma, not a degree. Now he's in the system and working for a better agency he's left alone by the DoE. However, although he has skimmed through this year, I think he will have trouble providing a degree to complete his paperwork package for his first extension.

Another 2 work for a very large and influential school, where one girl is hired as an art assistant and another guy has a WP as a Tec in the IT dept.

It doesn't stop there, the school also employs Middle eastern and European teachers that should have a TOIEC certificate which they have avoided and of course none of the guys have a teachers license.

I think part of the trick is to be lucky, and just keep on demanding an visa without a degree from the school, make it a condition of your contract that they must help you. I don't know how these guys get away with it, they are rude, demanding and not especially good at their jobs.

Maybe try looking to a less desirable area of Thailand. You would think it would be an idea to look for a job with a low salary which they are having difficulty filling, but the guys above are all on 30k+

I'm already getting the impression that next year will be difficult for schools to fill positions, maybe a good time for you.

In the long run, you are better to start studying a degree.

[williamgeorgeallen]

forget the small business idea. i have a small business which actually makes ok money and i am tired of the bull shit. generally it is almost impossible to make money, alot of head ache weather you do or not. thailand is a top spot for holidays. dont ruin it by moving here. maybe do one year teaching for some fun but dont waste your life doing it. most english teachers i meet trying to exist on 30 000thb per month have crappy lives. thailand is like a drug, and like most drugs if not taken in moderation it will ruin your life.

[gk10002000]

A degree is not a specific requirement for obtaining a work permit.

What "profession", skill or trade are you going to offer an employer ?

A job with a Thai employer/Company is needed before a work permit and appropriate visa can be obtained

I have completed my TEFL course so I'm looking to teach. However, the majority of teachers I've met who are teaching here are all working on Educational Visa's because they don't have degrees. I don't fancy doing it the illegal way so I'm just trying to find a way to stay here legally.

I have enough money to start a small business so that's another option.

What do you think is the better option?

I think you should go back to your home country, get a job, save and invest for income, or start a business there. Then when you can afford to be away from work, take long 90 day vacations in Thailand

[masuk]

A degree is not a specific requirement for obtaining a work permit.

What "profession", skill or trade are you going to offer an employer ?

A job with a Thai employer/Company is needed before a work permit and appropriate visa can be obtained

I have completed my TEFL course so I'm looking to teach. However, the majority of teachers I've met who are teaching here are all working on Educational Visa's because they don't have degrees. I don't fancy doing it the illegal way so I'm just trying to find a way to stay here legally.

I have enough money to start a small business so that's another option.

What do you think is the better option?

Visa's???

[Bullie]

It's entirely possible to stay in Thailand legally long term, without a degree.

Just join the Thailand Elite program.

..........................................................................................................................................

Edit: Topic closed at OP's request.

Edited April 29, 2016 by ubonjoe

[Baerboxer]

A degree is not a specific requirement for obtaining a work permit.

What "profession", skill or trade are you going to offer an employer ?

A job with a Thai employer/Company is needed before a work permit and appropriate visa can be obtained

I have completed my TEFL course so I'm looking to teach. However, the majority of teachers I've met who are teaching here are all working on Educational Visa's because they don't have degrees. I don't fancy doing it the illegal way so I'm just trying to find a way to stay here legally.

I have enough money to start a small business so that's another option.

What do you think is the better option?

An Education visa is issued for someone who is legitimately studying something in Thailand. There has been threads on Ed visa clampdowns on TVF. Anyone who works requires a WP and if they don't have one they are working illegally, subject to arrest, fines, imprisonment and deportation.

Do not listen to the chancers who think it clever to work illegally and diminish the risks. Do everything legal.

I know of lawyers who "bend" the laws on somethings - such as the number of Thai employees a foreign owned business must have etc. They think they find clever loopholes. I know one guy who set up a consultancy with his wife, no other employees in reality and is doing very nicely for the last 3 or 4 years. It will only take one jealous competitor to make a phone call even though he feels well protected because of his connections. And that phone call, is always a risk here.

[Baerboxer]

It's entirely possible to stay in Thailand legally long term, without a degree.

Just join the Thailand Elite program.

A very nice program, especially for those who travel in and out a lot and will fully utilize the airport privileges; play golf etc.

But, he still needs a WP to work.

[Squeegee]

My advice:

Go to Cambodia now. It's more open and easier for you to stay longer term to do your own business and it's easier for you to get a teaching job and stay longer term doing that.

As far as teaching is concerned....

See how you feel about teaching and if it's really for you. Your potential students deserve that. If you think you can make a go of it teaching, start thinking of qualifying yourself later so you have options (including doing it in Thailand).

At 23 years of age you are in a great position to explore the world and its options and you have time to make any necessary changes later on once a direction becomes more clear.

You can easily, quickly and cheaply reach Thailand from a base in Cambodia for now.

If you want to teach English - IRRESPECTIVE OF WHERE - you will eventually need a degree and a Teaching English as a Foreign Language qualification (TEFL) and you will be on borrowed time until you can meet these requirements. You will be limited to working for the lowest pay with few if any rights, no contract, benefits or security for the worst kinds of employers who use and abuse people who are in a weak position.

Teaching whilst unqualified works out more expensive. Being legal means no border runs, saving you a fortune over time, but there are many other costs, like not getting paid for days off - not just sick days - extending the tourist visa you are working illegally on: that school will likely want to deduct a day's pay for your trouble, such are the people you would be dealing with.

It's possible to 'get lucky' as an unqualified teacher in Asia, but a thread like this will not give you a proper idea of the true scale of 'getting lucky' because two or three posts out of twenty in this thread (where more of these people are likely to be) will not reflect the reality which is more like a few dozen in thousands. Don't base your life on relying on lottery tickets. A 23 year old unqualified and inexperienced newbie with no contacts will not be offered a position as an IT adviser when there are many better positioned than you with better reasons for doing it than you (maybe he has a family there, knows the country's system inside out, has a career already behind him as an IT adviser but he just never got the degree - he will beat you to that job and there are MANY experienced people here like him).

So, get teaching experience in Cambo for a similar lifestyle and see if it's for you, whilst you are able to chip over the border if you want to visit Thailand. After a year, invest in a TEFL certificate and ENSURE it is either a CELTA or a Trinity Cert TESOL. Look them up. With either of these doors will open for you across the world. With a TEFL of any other name fewer and fewer doors will open.

By the time you have a little experience and a TEFL you should be in a position to know exactly what you want to do (within teaching) and where. Only then would you need to consider the commitment of getting a degree to take it further. If you are serious about teaching English make that degree a PGCE or linguistics related. Choose anything English related for the next best thing. Since you are 23 years old you easily have time for that decision. Many folks here start out unqualified (no degree) and then get qualified by doing a distance course whilst getting on with their life... you could do that too.

1. Cambodia for a year of teaching/your business, then take it from there.

If you decide on teaching:

2. Get a reputable TEFL cert, one of the big two (see above) if you are smart, for easy access to the whole world later on. Many doors will now start opening for you already.

3. Save some money and get qualified with a degree. Go home or distance learning with a reputable institution from the West if possible.

4. The whole world is your oyster now and all doors can open for you.

But additionally for Thailand....

5. Be aware that Thailand has some of the highest requirements for qualification, and although you have recognized TEFL and degree certificates you will still only qualify to stay teaching legally for 2 to 4 years unless your degree is a PGCE or equivalent (that means qualified to be a subject teacher in your own country).

[yellowboat]

My advice:

Go to Cambodia now. It's more open and easier for you to stay longer term to do your own business and it's easier for you to get a teaching job and stay longer term doing that.

As far as teaching is concerned....

See how you feel about teaching and if it's really for you. Your potential students deserve that. If you think you can make a go of it teaching, start thinking of qualifying yourself later so you have options (including doing it in Thailand).

At 23 years of age you are in a great position to explore the world and its options and you have time to make any necessary changes later on once a direction becomes more clear.

You can easily, quickly and cheaply reach Thailand from a base in Cambodia for now.

If you want to teach English - IRRESPECTIVE OF WHERE - you will eventually need a degree and a Teaching English as a Foreign Language qualification (TEFL) and you will be on borrowed time until you can meet these requirements. You will be limited to working for the lowest pay with few if any rights, no contract, benefits or security for the worst kinds of employers who use and abuse people who are in a weak position.

Teaching whilst unqualified works out more expensive. Being legal means no border runs, saving you a fortune over time, but there are many other costs, like not getting paid for days off - not just sick days - extending the tourist visa you are working illegally on: that school will likely want to deduct a day's pay for your trouble, such are the people you would be dealing with.

It's possible to 'get lucky' as an unqualified teacher in Asia, but a thread like this will not give you a proper idea of the true scale of 'getting lucky' because two or three posts out of twenty in this thread (where more of these people are likely to be) will not reflect the reality which is more like a few dozen in thousands. Don't base your life on relying on lottery tickets. A 23 year old unqualified and inexperienced newbie with no contacts will not be offered a position as an IT adviser when there are many better positioned than you with better reasons for doing it than you (maybe he has a family there, knows the country's system inside out, has a career already behind him as an IT adviser but he just never got the degree - he will beat you to that job and there are MANY experienced people here like him).

So, get teaching experience in Cambo for a similar lifestyle and see if it's for you, whilst you are able to chip over the border if you want to visit Thailand. After a year, invest in a TEFL certificate and ENSURE it is either a CELTA or a Trinity Cert TESOL. Look them up. With either of these doors will open for you across the world. With a TEFL of any other name fewer and fewer doors will open.

By the time you have a little experience and a TEFL you should be in a position to know exactly what you want to do (within teaching) and where. Only then would you need to consider the commitment of getting a degree to take it further. If you are serious about teaching English make that degree a PGCE or linguistics related. Choose anything English related for the next best thing. Since you are 23 years old you easily have time for that decision. Many folks here start out unqualified (no degree) and then get qualified by doing a distance course whilst getting on with their life... you could do that too.

1. Cambodia for a year of teaching/your business, then take it from there.

If you decide on teaching:

2. Get a reputable TEFL cert, one of the big two (see above) if you are smart, for easy access to the whole world later on. Many doors will now start opening for you already.

3. Save some money and get qualified with a degree. Go home or distance learning with a reputable institution from the West if possible.

4. The whole world is your oyster now and all doors can open for you.

But additionally for Thailand....

5. Be aware that Thailand has some of the highest requirements for qualification, and although you have recognized TEFL and degree certificates you will still only qualify to stay teaching legally for 2 to 4 years unless your degree is a PGCE or equivalent (that means qualified to be a subject teacher in your own country).

Well put. Sort of mirrors many of an adventures life in Asia. Having arrived at 23, took Chinese at University, learned programming, taught English when times were tough. Learning Bahsa Indonesian is the easiest and most useful language in Asia. The poster should learn a language should he/she decide stay long term.

[Khun Robert]

Teaching is a profession. But this seems to be forgotten when coming in SEA as I read the comments.

Lots of people complain about the level of English spoking by Thai Nationals.

If you have no degree in Teaching, please stay away from schools, unless it is a school where you will get qualified as teacher.

I feel sorry for the children already, another backpacker want to stay in Land Of Smiles and cares only his live.

Get sorted out what you really want, get degrees to do it, find an Employer who is willing to hire you because your expertise, get a Work Permit and appropriate Visa.

You are young enough to sort this out.

Good luck.