Thai woman claims she was hit by car belonging to British Embassy

[HooHaa]

I felt nothing watching this video. The widespread lack of empathy by Thais to foreigners has done this to me, in addition to to having been the victim of violence by a Thai who I had never seen before and never had any interaction with at all. Even with the police taking this "person" into custody, and this person admitting that they attacked me, causing me to bleed, the police would not even press charges when we we're all at the police station. As a matter of fact, they would stop the discussion periodically to watch football replays on the television. I was yelled at when I demanded that charges be levied against the attacker. The police even went so far as to call a Frenchman who speaks Thai and English to tell me to give it up as they weren't going to do anything. Even after they sent me to the police hospital to be evaluated.

i would have felt something if it was a soi dog though.

But hey, let's not make this about you shall we?

[gemguy]

i wonder if it had been farang motor cyclist hit by a thai driven car.guess WHO'S FAULT.

But as that is not the case here, how is it relavent?

A number of years back I was paid 100k for compensation by an insurance companyfor lost time and motorcycle repair when I laid my bike down to avoid a driver who suddenly pulled a u turn across 3 lanes on petburi near sukhumvit soi 3.

Funny thing is I didn't have a license, though nobody ever asked.

I was treated very fairly by the insurance company I thought.

Very good to hear that....as that is encouraging.

Meantime...if you do not mind the question being asked:

Many on this website are arguing or certainly implying the following mentality:

Because the Thai drivers commonly drive in an assertive way ( fearless, reckless and aggressive is more like it ) then those involved in any accident here in Thailand simply just have to accept the ramifications of other peoples dangerous driving conduct and suffer the injuries or problems that are the result of an accident created and caused by another driver....and just let the insurance deal with it.

You, after having experienced such an event , do you feel in any way that you are complicit in the accident because you just so happen to be there in close proximity to the moron driver pulling off the dangerous and aggressive maneuver, such as you described, causing you grievous bodily harm.

Do you buy into the logic that implies that you should have been more alert and more skilled, while as a driver here in Thailand you already know that Thai drivers commonly do what you described and cause lots of accidents but the implied reasoning is such that you should have been able to avoid the accident and should have been a better driver such that the accident on that day involving you would not have happened.

In other words it is implied that you are to blame also because you were the one that was hurt and you were doing something wrong also or assumed to be doing something wrong also relevant to the accident that you suffered . so...no sympathy or recourse or compensation should be afforded you as it is implied you are solely at your own risk while other drivers who have not been involved in an accident ( yet ) are implying that they know how to avoid been in an accident and know how to skillfully maneuver their way around and amongst all the dangerous driving conduct that continually surrounds any driver here in Thailand.

If the insurance company did not cover you then what would be your position be as to who exactly was at fault and who should be compensated by whom.

Cheers

[impulse]

You go ahead and create or cause your own self inflicted accident.......and when it does happen to you then the record will show that you caused the accident ( yes you ) while your pleas for sympathy and or your excuses will not change what did happen......including the responsibility and accountability on your part while your broken hip and fractured spine and broken up face will always be there to forever remind you of your argued simplest logic and mentality and how you see things concerning your practiced driving conduct and the ramifications...just like the Thai Way of thinking.....that you readily defend.

Wait for a clear shot with no oncoming cars in Bangkok Asia, and you'll create your own "accident" when the people behind you pull you out of your car and beat you with a stick.

Or, you may starve to death waiting for that clear shot. They don't happen. Yet, traffic flows and people get to their destinations.

Sudden stop when the light turns yellow? In the west, it's fine. In Asia, you'll have 3 cars behind you piled up.

You wanna drive according to western rules? Drive in the west. Driving according to those standards where those standards don't apply is arrogant and very dangerous.

[richard_smith237]

You are wrong.

The car driver is not supposed to be edging out into traffic and deliberately forcing the on coming cars in the near lane and then also the far lane to be forced to stop so they ( who ever they are ) can proceed with their aggressive and dangerous move....which is exactly what caused the accident.

gemguy - do you or have you ever driven in Bangkok ?

While your assertion is correct in the black and white world of simple rights and wrongs carrying forward those opinions into everyday kaleidoscopic multifaceted life would quite often leave you stranded for we don't live in a simple world.

There is much more to this accident than the VW pulling out. Is the Motorcycle speeding for example?

As someone wrote earlier on in this thread - If you were to follow your 'wait for the perfect gap' ideology you might well find yourself at the junction for a significant amount of time. You'd probably find yourself facing the frustration and aggression of those other drivers you have held up by refusing to 'edge out'...

The driver of the VW was not driving aggressively, she was however driving assertively which is the only way to drive in Bangkok, or any Capital City for that matter, while enabling progression through heavy traffic.

Yes I have driven in Thailand while I now take taxis everywhere while I observe these sort of accidents caused by aggressive driving conduct happening all too often while I always, as in everyday, see near misses happening all around me in my travels watching how the taxi drivers drive and all the other drivers and how they drive.

Once again you and others are making ( excuses ) for who caused the accident and or what they did leading up to the accident occurring.

It is not a matter of what you think or your opinion rather it is a matter of who was doing what at the time and how their driving conduct was, for the record, greatly increasing the chances of creating the conditions for an accident.

It is a moot point if the lady driving the motorcycle was going faster than the supposedly posted speed limit ( That is an assumption ) as it does not change the first fact that the driver of the car was performing a dangerous and aggressive driving maneuver ( First ) and the core reason the accident that did happen....seconds later.

Regardless of the practice seen in the video being an everyday occurrence and or their "driving style" it still remains an aggressive and dangerous way to drive resulting in thousands of accidents occurring the same or similar throughout the country.

Trying to reason that the Thais drive this way or that way as a valid reason to absolve the car driver from any responsibility or wrong doing and claim the bike driver should have done this or should have done that AFTER the fact which clearly shows the car driver deliberately and aggressively placing the car into the traffic flow to force the other vehicles to stop ...so the car driver could proceed to the far lane and continue conducting the same dangerous and aggressive maneuver....which, in this case, did not work out the way as planned...and bang...another accident occurring under the same or similar conditions and driver conduct.

Had the car proceeded into the far lane and then continued to deliberately and aggressively force the on coming vehicles in the far lane to also stop, then there was a high chance of another vehicle colliding with the car....but that did not happen because before the car got that much further another vehicle did collide with the front end of their car while deliberately and knowingly putting themselves and others in harms way.

Every time you or any other driver makes that kind of dangerous or shall we say high risk maneuver you or they well know it is considered a dangerous move and everyone well knows that the move is relying on ALL the other drivers to see what is occurring around them and give way or come to a stop..to accommodate the maneuver .....but obviously, as seen in the video, sometimes, not all the other people that are being entangled in the / your / their dangerous and high risk maneuver are alert enough or have room or time to stop..... and then vehicles colloid...as is often the case.

If you were an insurance adjuster and have to make judgment on what type of driving conduct and or who caused the accident then it is obvious the driver of the car ( created) the condition while the end result was another accident...as often does happen when any driver does what is seen in the video.

Passing multiple vehicles when and where they should not be passing is also a common and everyday practice here in Thailand

When an accident does happen then everyone involved or witness to the event would want to understand what caused the accident and or who was involved in the accident.

If witnesses or better yet a video camera clearly records that a motor cycle driver was speeding and deliberately and aggressively passing multiple vehicles on the wrong side of the road and collided with an on coming car then you are implying that the driver of the other vehicle is complicit because they did not get out of the way in time and or did not accommodate the reckless driving of the motorcycle driver.

In effect you are arguing ...just because the reckless driving conduct of the motorcycle driver is common everyday driving practice here in Thailand so that simply absolves the motorcycle driver of wrong doing......so shift the blame onto the car driver that did not get out of the way in time or did not see what was occurring while they should have been more alert and therefore avoided the collision while it is now their own self inflicted problem for letting it happen to them and they will have to deal with it on their own and no sympathy is afforded them...as that is exactly what you are implying.

That is Weird logic if you think like that and obviously you and others are beginning to develop the same mentality as the Thais, if and when you make excuses for aggressive or dangerous or reckless driving conduct that is the root cause of an accident causing death or grievous bodily harm to others because of your or other peoples reckless driving conduct.

Cheers

You keep going on about this dangerous and aggressive manoeuvre... Its simply inching out into traffic and is very necessary when attempting to get anywhere in traffic which has no intention of giving way.

Its certainly not aggressive - its assertive, its pushy and I agree its dangerous... everyone drives like that, they have to.

How would you expect to get anywhere without employing such techniques ? As I mentioned, you'd take an age to get anywhere and end up creating additional issues / incidents.

While your unwavering opinion is correct in the perfect world it does not account for reality.

[impulse]

While your unwavering opinion is correct in the perfect world it does not account for reality.

Reminds me of my father when he got too old to drive. He'd get right up close to the speed limit driving all the time in the fast lane and then insist everyone else was wrong when they'd pass him like he was standing still, often giving him the finger.

Technically, he was correct.

In reality, I expected to get a call from the State Troopers at any time to tell us he was killed in a wreck. It wouldn't have been his fault legally, but he would have been the cause, driving contrary to local customs that held out the fast lane for exceeding the speed limit.

[TKDfella]

gemguy goes on about legal this and that, the car forcing here and there. But lets put it this way; how many of us (any country) driving along see someone another vehicle driving on the wrong side of the road where we, including gemguy, clearly have right of way. In your logic you will say 'I am legally right therefore I will continue and that other vehicle will have to avoid me.' Then smack, you are both injured or worse. You suffer simply because of your arrogance you followed the law but not common sense, you didn't slow down or stop to avoid an accident. In short what you would be doing is nothing more than playing 'whose chicken'. Oh and by the way, There is no law anywhere that will prevent you getting injured or killed so stop quoting it. Laws are there for us to abide by but free will says we break them at our own risk.

The last still above shows the m/c collided with the front of the car putting it on the wrong side of the road. In this country driving LHS ALL vehicles actually have to cross the oncoming lane to turn right and that could be interpreted as being illegal in all cases traffic or no traffic. As I have said before, I don't know that road but had it been me in the car I might, I say might, have considered turning left and driving to the next 'U' turn or traffic light junction. However, some other poster here might advise me that such a place is not available here in which case the car driver had little option.

[harrry]

Bet there'll be no comment from the high and mighty in the embassy.

The British Embassy says it is in the hands of the insurers and rightly so. Like myself, they don't susbcribe to this pathetic song sahn, krien jai rubbish either.

The Embassy is handling it the correct way.

The Embassy Insurance Co was called to the scene of the accident and the traffic police was called to the scene of the accident. There was NO hit and run involved.

From there on out it is the Insurance Co. job to sort it out who is at fault. If the Embassy says but one word in the accident the Insurance Co. can refuse to handle the case. Same as the Insurance Co. can refuse to handle the case if the Embassy even send a bunch of flowers or a basket of fruit to the injured.

As for the injured person you can bet the only insurance she has is the Government Uninsured motorist insurance which she must have otherwise she could not have the yearly registration sticker for her motorcycle. The Uninsured motorist insurance will take care of the hospital / medical expenses and nothing more, and that is how she got out of the hospital by the Uninsured motorist policy picking up the tab. The Uninsured motorist insurance is so that the hospitals / medical are not being stuck with the bill(s). As the Government hospitals are being stuck with the bills year after year with Tourist who do not have insurance. For 2015 the Thai Gov. hospitals are stuck with a Bt. 3,000,000 of unpaid bills by foreign tourist having no insurance.

This annoys me. THe person has a claimagainst the driver of the vehicle. As the driver was an employee of the Embassy the embassy bears liability for this with the driver. The motorcyclist has not got a claim with the insurance company it acts for and on behalf of the embassy. If the person wishes he could take the embassy to court and not speak at all with the insurance company. It is important to remember the insurance company is not a party to the claim but is working on behalf of and in the intrests of the embassy. It is not a neutral party.

[JulianLS]

Well, the video certainly doesnt help her case much. Now the insurance company has seen it, I doubt any cash will be forthcoming.

Clearly the car came out slowly, some seconds before the accident, and was stationary when the motorcycle actually hit it.

The motorcyclist clearly wasnt paying attention to the road ahead, and seemed to be going too fast for the traffic conditions.

I hope she recovers. But she really needs to take responsibility for this accident herself, rather than harras the driver on social media because she is a farang.

Edited March 13, 2016 by JulianLS

[gemguy]

gemguy goes on about legal this and that, the car forcing here and there. But lets put it this way; how many of us (any country) driving along see someone another vehicle driving on the wrong side of the road where we, including gemguy, clearly have right of way. In your logic you will say 'I am legally right therefore I will continue and that other vehicle will have to avoid me.' Then smack, you are both injured or worse. You suffer simply because of your arrogance you followed the law but not common sense, you didn't slow down or stop to avoid an accident. In short what you would be doing is nothing more than playing 'whose chicken'. Oh and by the way, There is no law anywhere that will prevent you getting injured or killed so stop quoting it. Laws are there for us to abide by but free will says we break them at our own risk.

The last still above shows the m/c collided with the front of the car putting it on the wrong side of the road. In this country driving LHS ALL vehicles actually have to cross the oncoming lane to turn right and that could be interpreted as being illegal in all cases traffic or no traffic. As I have said before, I don't know that road but had it been me in the car I might, I say might, have considered turning left and driving to the next 'U' turn or traffic light junction. However, some other poster here might advise me that such a place is not available here in which case the car driver had little option.

Just more excuses on your part for the bad driving conduct of the car driver who caused the accident while people are not interested in hearing the many possible excuses as to why aggressive or dangerous driving conduct should be argued as acceptable and expect everyone to just live with it while using the injured person who was involved in the accident you caused as a legitimate reason or excuse as to why you should be deemed not responsible and shift the blame on other people while saying: Everyone drives dangerously like that so it is perfectly acceptable.

You can tell that to the witnesses or the video camera that recorded the event and then argue with judge or the insurance company or the family of the injured or dead people and see how far you get with that logic.

If you run a red light and cause an accident then you are in the wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you do a U-turn in the middle of the road and cause an accident then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you are coming out of a side road and do not stop at the red light or the stop sign and collide into another vehicle then you are wrong and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you are speeding and crash into another vehicle then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you pass were it is not safe to do so then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you pull out of a side road when it is not safe to do so and deliberately cut off the traffic so you can do what you want to do without regard to rules and regulations then you are wrong and you are at fault and held responsible for your driving conduct.

If you need about a dozen more examples of reckless and or dangerous driving conduct that can and does all too often cause an accident then I can easily provide them....but better yet because some of you are seemingly slow learners I advise you simply use your computer to look up the several hundred videos of motor vehicle accident examples caused by reckless and dangerous driving conduct....and many of them are similar or the same situation as the motor vehicle accident we are discussing here on this forum.

Yes gemguy goes on about this issue because it is a mater of life or death or serious bodily harm.

It is not a matter of my opinion while it is not my opinion that I am going on and on about.

It is a matter of knowing what you are doing is dangerous and can cause death and or bodily harm to others ..as seen in the video and the end result of their driving conduct....another accident caused by aggressive and dangerous driving conduct.

With your attitude about someone else pointing out the faults in the prevalent mentality of how people drive in Thailand then your defense of the reckless and dangerous driving in effect makes matters worse.

You are part of the problem...not the solution.

Driving a motor Vehicle is not about doing what ever suits you to get where you are going while the roads here in Thailand are considered amongst the most dangerous on the planet....in large part because of this prevalent mentality that you argue on behalf of and readily defend.

Cheers and I hope you do not get into an accident when you are cut off in your lane when another driver decides to do exactly what you defend as perfectly acceptable driving conduct while hopefully you will survive the sudden impact caused to you by another reckless drivers conduct.

[CoreanoOzzie]

So who drove the VW? A blardy Brit or a Thai?

[irwinfc]

the motorcycle rider was in full view of the car, yet obviously did her best to avoid the car (and fail) instead of slowing down and eventually stopping. the car driver, however, had to look at oncoming traffic from the other side of the road.

[gemguy]

the motorcycle rider was in full view of the car, yet obviously did her best to avoid the car (and fail) instead of slowing down and eventually stopping. the car driver, however, had to look at oncoming traffic from the other side of the road.

That is on the assumption that she saw the car making its move and or she had the time or room to slow down and stop ...which she would have done IF she had the time and room to stop....but she did not have the time or room to stop rather tried to get past the car without colliding into the broad side of the car because she had no other choice while being forced to make the move she did make.

This is a common place scenario where other drivers are forced to make a sudden move...but it is not enough to avoid the accident which is initially being caused by the other driver.

If you watch the video over and over again ( which I did about 25 times now ) you can see the motorcycle was eventually forced onto the center line trying to get past the nose of the car while the car driver was continually edging out while continuing to make their move when they collided.

It is obvious to me the motorcycle driver had a choice which would have being attempting to stop with full brakes on while skidding broad side into the side of the car or try to go past the front of the car...and almost made it....but did not....while either way she would have made collision contact with the car that pulled out in front of her.

When it comes to motor vehicle accidents involving motorcycles, commonly the car driver will claim, in all honesty, they did not see the motorcycle when they made their move.

But that is not a legitimate excuse as everyone else saw the motorcycle because they were paying attention and or driving cautiously...... but 1 driver did not .

So, do you blame the motorcycle when the motor cycle is traveling along and doing nothing illegal or wrong and a car pulls out in front of them because they did not look closely and or double check rather they just go for it because they wrongly judge that there is enough room to go for it ...but they were mistaken ...and the accident happened.

The driver of the car clearly misjudged the traffic flow and its speed and the gaps in between the other motor vehicles while relying on the other drivers to see what was happening in front of them...but it did not work out as planned and another accident happened.

I do not blame the motorcycle driver at all as it is clear to me she was cut off and very little choice to maneuver.

But others say they see it differently and argue the motorcycle is at fault and the car driver did nothing wrong.

I can assure you they would be singing a far different tune while lying in a hospital bed severely injured after someone pulled out in front of them and they crashed into the car because.... someone pulled out in front of them.... when there was very little time or room to avoid the accident relative to the speeds involved and occurring at the time...even if they were only doing say 20 kilometers per hour

I do not agree with their judgment on what caused the accident

Anyhow......Cheers.

[NanLaew]

... I do not agree with their judgment on what caused the accident

Anyhow......Cheers.

...and most here don't agree with yours.

Cheers too.

[TKDfella]

gemguy goes on about legal this and that, the car forcing here and there. But lets put it this way; how many of us (any country) driving along see someone another vehicle driving on the wrong side of the road where we, including gemguy, clearly have right of way. In your logic you will say 'I am legally right therefore I will continue and that other vehicle will have to avoid me.' Then smack, you are both injured or worse. You suffer simply because of your arrogance you followed the law but not common sense, you didn't slow down or stop to avoid an accident. In short what you would be doing is nothing more than playing 'whose chicken'. Oh and by the way, There is no law anywhere that will prevent you getting injured or killed so stop quoting it. Laws are there for us to abide by but free will says we break them at our own risk.

The last still above shows the m/c collided with the front of the car putting it on the wrong side of the road. In this country driving LHS ALL vehicles actually have to cross the oncoming lane to turn right and that could be interpreted as being illegal in all cases traffic or no traffic. As I have said before, I don't know that road but had it been me in the car I might, I say might, have considered turning left and driving to the next 'U' turn or traffic light junction. However, some other poster here might advise me that such a place is not available here in which case the car driver had little option.

Just more excuses on your part for the bad driving conduct of the car driver who caused the accident while people are not interested in hearing the many possible excuses as to why aggressive or dangerous driving conduct should be argued as acceptable and expect everyone to just live with it while using the injured person who was involved in the accident you caused as a legitimate reason or excuse as to why you should be deemed not responsible and shift the blame on other people while saying: Everyone drives dangerously like that so it is perfectly acceptable.

You can tell that to the witnesses or the video camera that recorded the event and then argue with judge or the insurance company or the family of the injured or dead people and see how far you get with that logic.

If you run a red light and cause an accident then you are in the wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you do a U-turn in the middle of the road and cause an accident then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you are coming out of a side road and do not stop at the red light or the stop sign and collide into another vehicle then you are wrong and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you are speeding and crash into another vehicle then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you pass were it is not safe to do so then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you pull out of a side road when it is not safe to do so and deliberately cut off the traffic so you can do what you want to do without regard to rules and regulations then you are wrong and you are at fault and held responsible for your driving conduct.

If you need about a dozen more examples of reckless and or dangerous driving conduct that can and does all too often cause an accident then I can easily provide them....but better yet because some of you are seemingly slow learners I advise you simply use your computer to look up the several hundred videos of motor vehicle accident examples caused by reckless and dangerous driving conduct....and many of them are similar or the same situation as the motor vehicle accident we are discussing here on this forum.

Yes gemguy goes on about this issue because it is a mater of life or death or serious bodily harm.

It is not a matter of my opinion while it is not my opinion that I am going on and on about.

It is a matter of knowing what you are doing is dangerous and can cause death and or bodily harm to others ..as seen in the video and the end result of their driving conduct....another accident caused by aggressive and dangerous driving conduct.

With your attitude about someone else pointing out the faults in the prevalent mentality of how people drive in Thailand then your defense of the reckless and dangerous driving in effect makes matters worse.

You are part of the problem...not the solution.

Driving a motor Vehicle is not about doing what ever suits you to get where you are going while the roads here in Thailand are considered amongst the most dangerous on the planet....in large part because of this prevalent mentality that you argue on behalf of and readily defend.

Cheers and I hope you do not get into an accident when you are cut off in your lane when another driver decides to do exactly what you defend as perfectly acceptable driving conduct while hopefully you will survive the sudden impact caused to you by another reckless drivers conduct.

Man, you totally off the line. Nowhere in my post do I make excuses for bad driving or defending bad road conduct, I have done just the opposite, you are just twisting words. Your last paragraph is insulting in as much you are insuating I will be in an accident. That is evil content. I have been there and hit by M/C drivers going the wrong way, Three of while I was stationary at traffic lights.

In this case both vehicles could be in the wrong because as I mentioned before about turning right and if (as I think), and I say if, the m/c rider was on the wrong side of the road/ not paying attention to traffic (that you are defending) and possible hazards in front then she was wrong too. It's only in maths that two negatives multiplied together make a positive, but unfortunately not on the roads. Hope you were looking at Channel 3 HD at just 8 a.m. this morning. A classic example of Thai m/cyclists not even looking at oncoming traffic.

Acutally, you might even be a Troll, just here to stir things up. Have a nice day.

[gemguy]

gemguy goes on about legal this and that, the car forcing here and there. But lets put it this way; how many of us (any country) driving along see someone another vehicle driving on the wrong side of the road where we, including gemguy, clearly have right of way. In your logic you will say 'I am legally right therefore I will continue and that other vehicle will have to avoid me.' Then smack, you are both injured or worse. You suffer simply because of your arrogance you followed the law but not common sense, you didn't slow down or stop to avoid an accident. In short what you would be doing is nothing more than playing 'whose chicken'. Oh and by the way, There is no law anywhere that will prevent you getting injured or killed so stop quoting it. Laws are there for us to abide by but free will says we break them at our own risk.

The last still above shows the m/c collided with the front of the car putting it on the wrong side of the road. In this country driving LHS ALL vehicles actually have to cross the oncoming lane to turn right and that could be interpreted as being illegal in all cases traffic or no traffic. As I have said before, I don't know that road but had it been me in the car I might, I say might, have considered turning left and driving to the next 'U' turn or traffic light junction. However, some other poster here might advise me that such a place is not available here in which case the car driver had little option.

Just more excuses on your part for the bad driving conduct of the car driver who caused the accident while people are not interested in hearing the many possible excuses as to why aggressive or dangerous driving conduct should be argued as acceptable and expect everyone to just live with it while using the injured person who was involved in the accident you caused as a legitimate reason or excuse as to why you should be deemed not responsible and shift the blame on other people while saying: Everyone drives dangerously like that so it is perfectly acceptable.

You can tell that to the witnesses or the video camera that recorded the event and then argue with judge or the insurance company or the family of the injured or dead people and see how far you get with that logic.

If you run a red light and cause an accident then you are in the wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you do a U-turn in the middle of the road and cause an accident then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you are coming out of a side road and do not stop at the red light or the stop sign and collide into another vehicle then you are wrong and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you are speeding and crash into another vehicle then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you pass were it is not safe to do so then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you pull out of a side road when it is not safe to do so and deliberately cut off the traffic so you can do what you want to do without regard to rules and regulations then you are wrong and you are at fault and held responsible for your driving conduct.

If you need about a dozen more examples of reckless and or dangerous driving conduct that can and does all too often cause an accident then I can easily provide them....but better yet because some of you are seemingly slow learners I advise you simply use your computer to look up the several hundred videos of motor vehicle accident examples caused by reckless and dangerous driving conduct....and many of them are similar or the same situation as the motor vehicle accident we are discussing here on this forum.

Yes gemguy goes on about this issue because it is a mater of life or death or serious bodily harm.

It is not a matter of my opinion while it is not my opinion that I am going on and on about.

It is a matter of knowing what you are doing is dangerous and can cause death and or bodily harm to others ..as seen in the video and the end result of their driving conduct....another accident caused by aggressive and dangerous driving conduct.

With your attitude about someone else pointing out the faults in the prevalent mentality of how people drive in Thailand then your defense of the reckless and dangerous driving in effect makes matters worse.

You are part of the problem...not the solution.

Driving a motor Vehicle is not about doing what ever suits you to get where you are going while the roads here in Thailand are considered amongst the most dangerous on the planet....in large part because of this prevalent mentality that you argue on behalf of and readily defend.

Cheers and I hope you do not get into an accident when you are cut off in your lane when another driver decides to do exactly what you defend as perfectly acceptable driving conduct while hopefully you will survive the sudden impact caused to you by another reckless drivers conduct.

Man, you totally off the line. Nowhere in my post do I make excuses for bad driving or defending bad road conduct, I have done just the opposite, you are just twisting words. Your last paragraph is insulting in as much you are insuating I will be in an accident. That is evil content. I have been there and hit by M/C drivers going the wrong way, Three of while I was stationary at traffic lights.

In this case both vehicles could be in the wrong because as I mentioned before about turning right and if (as I think), and I say if, the m/c rider was on the wrong side of the road/ not paying attention to traffic (that you are defending) and possible hazards in front then she was wrong too. It's only in maths that two negatives multiplied together make a positive, but unfortunately not on the roads. Hope you were looking at Channel 3 HD at just 8 a.m. this morning. A classic example of Thai m/cyclists not even looking at oncoming traffic.

Acutally, you might even be a Troll, just here to stir things up. Have a nice day.

Watch the video over and over again and over again and once more just to make sure until you realize the motorcycle was cut off and did not have room to stop or go around the car completely.......which she did try to do.

Use your eyes and you will see what caused the accident.

Or keep on believing what you think while saying or implying the car driver did nothing wrong of any significance to be faulted for.

Meantime no need to know how sensitive you are as this is not about your sensitivity level rather it is about a clear lesson on what not to do when driving in Bangkok to avoid causing an accident.

If others do it and cause accidents then all the more reason for you and others to not do the same thing as seen in the video....nor defend it in any way or make excuses in any way.

The goal here is not to lecture anyone or be the winner in any argument rather the debate is meant to clearly point out what initially creates and then causes motor vehicle accidents here in Thailand and or anywhere when a driver ( any driver ) starts to edge out into the flow of traffic with the deliberate intention of making the flow of traffic stop for them.....as that is exactly what the person driving the car was trying to do and caused the accident....as seen in the video.

Can we stay on course here rather than get all emotional and flustered over words that you think are offensive.

Geeeez .....Do we need to call Judge Judy here and have her make an informed final judgment and clarify as to who did what wrong and who was wrong in what they did.

Cheers and drive safely and do not do what you see being done in the video by the car that caused the accident...as I may be the guy that gets cut off and ends up dead or injured...Thanks

Edited March 14, 2016 by gemguy

[gemguy]

... I do not agree with their judgment on what caused the accident

Anyhow......Cheers.

...and most here don't agree with yours.

Cheers too.

Ha Ha ...And for the sake of humanity I hope you never, as in never, have a job opportunity as a motor vehicle accident insurance claims adjuster ..because you would............ Fail......lol

Looking forward to your snappy retort

Cheers too......and make sure you can stop in time when you are aggressively cut off by another motor vehicle or you will be blamed and reprimanded for not stopping in time....as is the mentality of most here....lol

[NanLaew]

... I do not agree with their judgment on what caused the accident

Anyhow......Cheers.

...and most here don't agree with yours.

Cheers too.

Ha Ha ...And for the sake of humanity I hope you never, as in never, have a job opportunity as a motor vehicle accident insurance claims adjuster ..because you would............ Fail......lol

Looking forward to your snappy retort

Cheers too......and make sure you can stop in time when you are aggressively cut off by another motor vehicle or you will be blamed and reprimanded for not stopping in time....as is the mentality of most here....lol

You keep saying the VW inching forward was aggressively pushing in but feel sorry for the driver of the speeding motorbike that was bumper-riding the back end of the white car immediately in front. You see absolutely no aggression in the way the victims motorbike was being driven.

You also claimed she was cut off where in reality, there was a whole nearside lane (big enough for a bus) passing safely to the left (rear) of the VW. You fail to acknowledge she was speeding, unwilling to slow down, chose to go right and pass in front of the VW into opposing traffic or was in any way responsible for her demise and should go after this terribly aggressive VW driver.

Your oft repeated solution to the mode of driving that prevails here is for people to stop pushing in. End of. And suddenly all will be so much better. That is quite simply ludicrous since for every suddenly passive, wait for the break driver of any sort of vehicle, there will be at least ten, bat outta hell, me first... always drivers of every other sort of vehicle racing to fill the gap created by your recommended benevolence. This passivity has to come from ALL drivers and as others have already posted, that is not going to happen in Thailand any time soon.

Your concern for my driving skills is unnecessary. Today during the morning rush hour, a dog shot off the sidewalk on my left, trying to cross all four lanes of Pattaya Sukhumvit just south of the tunnel bottleneck where everyone fans out from two lanes to four lanes and puts there foot down. As usual, I stayed in the second from left-hand lane, braked and moved to the left to avoid the dog... that sprinted into the path of a motorbike taxi guy that just like the woman bike driver in the OP, decided to 'shoot the gap' on my right at very high speed. The result was the dog catapulted into the median, screaming horribly with fatal injuries and an obvious broken back and the motorcycle guy flipping and rolling down the lane that I had just vacated for about 70 meters. I have no clue where the bike ended up. In fact I had stopped completely about 20 meters before where his body had stopped rolling. If I braked hard to a stop, I would have nailed the dog... and taken moto-taxi boy racer up my exhaust pipe.

I hope the bike driver survived; highly likely IMHO as he was fully kitted like a proper motorcycle taxi guy with full-face helmet, long sleeve shirt, jacket, long pants and decent shoes. I came back the opposite way about 20 minutes later and the Sawang Boriboon ambulance was there with the strobes on but there was no crowd. He will be hurt for sure but hopefully not dead. I do feel sorry for the dog. It looked like Snowy from Tin-Tin. Somebody's pet and not a mangy soi mutt.

I will be interested to see if anyone goes after the dog or the owner of the dog for the injuries, damages, loss of earnings, etc., resulting from this mishap.

(no I won't but you might be inclined)

[richard_smith237]

... I do not agree with their judgment on what caused the accident

Anyhow......Cheers.

...and most here don't agree with yours.

Cheers too.

Ha Ha ...And for the sake of humanity I hope you never, as in never, have a job opportunity as a motor vehicle accident insurance claims adjuster ..because you would............ Fail......lol

Looking forward to your snappy retort

Cheers too......and make sure you can stop in time when you are aggressively cut off by another motor vehicle or you will be blamed and reprimanded for not stopping in time....as is the mentality of most here....lol

gemguy... Over the past few days given the specific direction this thread has taken I've paid extra special attention to my driving (I know, I know - I should be paying extra special attention all the time, but lets not get into that for the sake of avoiding further diversion).

So.... over the past few days, I've been in numerous situations while driving in Bangkok where I thought I might wait for a clear gap in traffic into which I could enter from a side Soi. Cars and bikes just kept coming and coming and coming... in fact pedestrians crossed the road and forced cars to slow down for them - In short, what you are suggesting is impossible.

My point is, you are suggesting that anyone who drives in Bangkok (or anywhere) must wait for a perfect gap in traffic such that the vehicles already on the road need not adjust their speed at all.

Your suggestion appears to be that anything which may require other vehicles to alter their speed is aggressive and dangerous.

This is simply not true, your ideas are so far removed from reality you are coming across as either extremely naive or extremely bloody minded trying to win a discussion against the face of common sense.

--------

Example at hand... I'm driving down Rama IV and a car wishes to pull out into the traffic in front of me. I see the car edge out. I have a couple of choices:

1) I switch across a lane.

2) I slow down and let the car out.

3) I flash my lights and speed up risking accident.

4) I haven't seen the car and I accidentally crash into it.

1 & 2 are the only reasonable options. 3 & 4 involve culpability and blame in an accident - one being dangerous driving and the other being driving without due care and attention.

Given these choices, based on the video the intentions of the VW driver were clear, her car was in the road long enough. Its clear that the bike took choice 3 or wasn't paying attention (4).

[TKDfella]

gemguy goes on about legal this and that, the car forcing here and there. But lets put it this way; how many of us (any country) driving along see someone another vehicle driving on the wrong side of the road where we, including gemguy, clearly have right of way. In your logic you will say 'I am legally right therefore I will continue and that other vehicle will have to avoid me.' Then smack, you are both injured or worse. You suffer simply because of your arrogance you followed the law but not common sense, you didn't slow down or stop to avoid an accident. In short what you would be doing is nothing more than playing 'whose chicken'. Oh and by the way, There is no law anywhere that will prevent you getting injured or killed so stop quoting it. Laws are there for us to abide by but free will says we break them at our own risk.

The last still above shows the m/c collided with the front of the car putting it on the wrong side of the road. In this country driving LHS ALL vehicles actually have to cross the oncoming lane to turn right and that could be interpreted as being illegal in all cases traffic or no traffic. As I have said before, I don't know that road but had it been me in the car I might, I say might, have considered turning left and driving to the next 'U' turn or traffic light junction. However, some other poster here might advise me that such a place is not available here in which case the car driver had little option.

Just more excuses on your part for the bad driving conduct of the car driver who caused the accident while people are not interested in hearing the many possible excuses as to why aggressive or dangerous driving conduct should be argued as acceptable and expect everyone to just live with it while using the injured person who was involved in the accident you caused as a legitimate reason or excuse as to why you should be deemed not responsible and shift the blame on other people while saying: Everyone drives dangerously like that so it is perfectly acceptable.

You can tell that to the witnesses or the video camera that recorded the event and then argue with judge or the insurance company or the family of the injured or dead people and see how far you get with that logic.

If you run a red light and cause an accident then you are in the wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you do a U-turn in the middle of the road and cause an accident then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you are coming out of a side road and do not stop at the red light or the stop sign and collide into another vehicle then you are wrong and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you are speeding and crash into another vehicle then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you pass were it is not safe to do so then you are wrong and at fault and responsible for your driving conduct.

If you pull out of a side road when it is not safe to do so and deliberately cut off the traffic so you can do what you want to do without regard to rules and regulations then you are wrong and you are at fault and held responsible for your driving conduct.

If you need about a dozen more examples of reckless and or dangerous driving conduct that can and does all too often cause an accident then I can easily provide them....but better yet because some of you are seemingly slow learners I advise you simply use your computer to look up the several hundred videos of motor vehicle accident examples caused by reckless and dangerous driving conduct....and many of them are similar or the same situation as the motor vehicle accident we are discussing here on this forum.

Yes gemguy goes on about this issue because it is a mater of life or death or serious bodily harm.

It is not a matter of my opinion while it is not my opinion that I am going on and on about.

It is a matter of knowing what you are doing is dangerous and can cause death and or bodily harm to others ..as seen in the video and the end result of their driving conduct....another accident caused by aggressive and dangerous driving conduct.

With your attitude about someone else pointing out the faults in the prevalent mentality of how people drive in Thailand then your defense of the reckless and dangerous driving in effect makes matters worse.

You are part of the problem...not the solution.

Driving a motor Vehicle is not about doing what ever suits you to get where you are going while the roads here in Thailand are considered amongst the most dangerous on the planet....in large part because of this prevalent mentality that you argue on behalf of and readily defend.

Cheers and I hope you do not get into an accident when you are cut off in your lane when another driver decides to do exactly what you defend as perfectly acceptable driving conduct while hopefully you will survive the sudden impact caused to you by another reckless drivers conduct.

Man, you totally off the line. Nowhere in my post do I make excuses for bad driving or defending bad road conduct, I have done just the opposite, you are just twisting words. Your last paragraph is insulting in as much you are insuating I will be in an accident. That is evil content. I have been there and hit by M/C drivers going the wrong way, Three of while I was stationary at traffic lights.

In this case both vehicles could be in the wrong because as I mentioned before about turning right and if (as I think), and I say if, the m/c rider was on the wrong side of the road/ not paying attention to traffic (that you are defending) and possible hazards in front then she was wrong too. It's only in maths that two negatives multiplied together make a positive, but unfortunately not on the roads. Hope you were looking at Channel 3 HD at just 8 a.m. this morning. A classic example of Thai m/cyclists not even looking at oncoming traffic.

Acutally, you might even be a Troll, just here to stir things up. Have a nice day.

Watch the video over and over again and over again and once more just to make sure until you realize the motorcycle was cut off and did not have room to stop or go around the car completely.......which she did try to do.

Use your eyes and you will see what caused the accident.

Or keep on believing what you think while saying or implying the car driver did nothing wrong of any significance to be faulted for.

Meantime no need to know how sensitive you are as this is not about your sensitivity level rather it is about a clear lesson on what not to do when driving in Bangkok to avoid causing an accident.

If others do it and cause accidents then all the more reason for you and others to not do the same thing as seen in the video....nor defend it in any way or make excuses in any way.

The goal here is not to lecture anyone or be the winner in any argument rather the debate is meant to clearly point out what initially creates and then causes motor vehicle accidents here in Thailand and or anywhere when a driver ( any driver ) starts to edge out into the flow of traffic with the deliberate intention of making the flow of traffic stop for them.....as that is exactly what the person driving the car was trying to do and caused the accident....as seen in the video.

Can we stay on course here rather than get all emotional and flustered over words that you think are offensive.

Geeeez .....Do we need to call Judge Judy here and have her make an informed final judgment and clarify as to who did what wrong and who was wrong in what they did.

Cheers and drive safely and do not do what you see being done in the video by the car that caused the accident...as I may be the guy that gets cut off and ends up dead or injured...Thanks

I'm sorry gemguy but you have not understood a word I've posted including my original physical representation. So let's start from scratch!.

According to the video it is clear that the car is moving but very very slowly. The law of physics don't change for anyone regardless of who does what and when. They remain constant, and are the same for me, you ants rockets, the Earth, the Solar System and so on. The case I am referring to here is momentum which is part of classical physics and it has a CONSERVATION LAW WHICH SAYS THAT mv=m1v1+m2v2 where m and v are mass and velocity, 1 & 2 are the bike and car respectively. In other words the total momentum before must equal the total momentum afterwards. The collision in this case is inelastic so kinetic energy gets changed into heat and damage of the two vehicles and is therefore not in the equation.

Because the car is hardly moving it's velocity is negligible or might be considered zero. So mv= m1v1+m2x0=m1+v1. That is, the momentum in this case is due almost totally to the motorbike and rider and therefore also, rider impact with the ground. Had the rider been moving slower the impact would have been less and likewise moving faster, the impact greater.These are the facts and these facts don't talk of blame, legalities or other subjective notions, the facts are totally objective and have cast NO prejudice. In a court of law both lawyers would agree. Had I visited the crash site I would have also taken measurements concerning the position of the vehicles and used a reference frame, that the car was 'y' meters from the corner from whence it came and position 'x' within the two way thoroughfare. Likewise for the bike. Again these would be facts and carry no prejudice. In other words, the woman's injuries were consistent with impacting the road although in a court of law the examining doctor would be the one to confirm that she no injuries prior t the impact. (from the video, it seems that she didn't make contact with the car.) Next I would have to tell of the other influence on impact, which results from the potential energy gained by rising into the air and this would be gravity. She will move in the downward direction according to the formula ¹/₂ gt², where g is the gravitational acceleration (approx. 9.8 meters) and 't' is time in seconds. Again this is a factual state without prejudice and applies to all objects on Earth. However, since the camera is looking down on the accident the attained height would have to be; a) calculated knowing the angle of the camera; or estimated from previous data or c) from eye witness source.

Now is where legalities come in. Firstly, from the measurements was any vehicle in violation of the traffic code. This is where there are no laws of physics involved and depend on subjective human interpretation and subject to change.

As I have said, it is possible that the driver could have chosen a different route, turning left into the the traffic and so avoiding that particular accident. However, in just the same way the woman had other alternatives, such going around the rear (like others in the video) or slowing. I don't argue that the car's position is correct and I have already stated that elsewhere but it is almost stationary,

dangerously perhaps, but almost still nonetheless. This then places the places a larger responsibility on the bike driver, unfairly maybe, to take action and in this case she doesn't, for whatever reason (lack of time, not paying attention to the road ahead etc. etc. etc.). But these are arguably subjective just as your earlier 'legal' remarks are. The only truth is that if one ignores the laws of physics one will have to pay the price.

Have a nice day.