deposit for teachers required by school?

[kuulmellow]

Hi fellow teachers,

After browsing some of the forum topics here I could not find an answer, that is why I decided to start a new thread and I am hoping that some people could help me clarifying the subject issue.

I am currently working at a government elementary school in Krabi province and I am about to renew my contract. The director gave me the new contract and there is one worrisome clause in it. When I first started here they asked me to pay a deposit for keeping my job and in case I do not turn up or suddenly quit they could keep that money. At that time it was 5000 baht which I have paid, although a bit reluctantly.

Now, because my salary was bumped up a little they ask me for a higher amount, basically 5% of my annual salary. I sat down and asked the director about it, and turns out this is some kind of new policy and all government teachers (maybe other government employees, too) are required to pay.

First, I was pretty flabbergasted and told him that I am not willing to pay and if we cannot find another way I will quit, no threatening or anything like that just told him very calmly. Eventually a solutions was found, however I am still puzzled why they require that and why that much.

I am not certain it applies for all schools, as I worked for a private school before and there was no word about deposit at all

Have any of you experienced the same thing at your school?

As I have learned in the meantime, some Thai teachers do not have that kind of cash and they are forced to borrow.

Maybe it is only me but I seriously think that this is not right and nobody should "pay" for a job, especially in advance.

Imagine a new teacher starting at a school and she/he has to pay before doing anything at all.

Please, let me know what you think/know about this.

thanks

[stubuzz]

They are scamming you. Take your contract to the labour department.

[lostinisaan]

I understand that some schools are trying to make sure that the teacher finally shows up. Thanks to so many others who give a damn about a word, or even a signed contract.Some just don't show up when they find a school that pays slightly more.

But people should be honest and it seems that too many people are not honest, either don't show up on the first day, or they wait for their first pay check and leave over night.

I've helped three schools to find teachers and I've experienced very strange applicants and really very extreme and weird behavior.

One, who seemed to be perfect for the job sent me an e-mail one day before the interview if I couldn't "lend him" 20 K and he would pay it back when he receives his first salary?

He wrote that he " a sort of ran out of money while staying in Pattaya" and i couldn't believe my own eyes. I had already wasted a lot of time and money for phone calls...

This is not a country wide policy, more a decision made by a superior of your school. It sounds very funny to ask somebody for some money to be able to start your job?

Did you get your 5 K back? What's in your contract regarding resigning your position? Can the employer just fire you when he wants to?

Can't you ask a Thai employee if they have to pay as well? Are you the only foreigner there? Are there nearby schools with a similar regulation?

There's a high possibility that you have to buy your teaching position. Maybe a new director?

P.S. It seems there's nothing that could surprise me anymore. Best of luck, enjoy your stay in Lieland.

[kuulmellow]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I have the feeling that they just want to safeguard themselves with this money. The director is a kind of new guy, he was the one who hired me and keeps telling me that I am a good teacher. I am the only foreigner here and my Thai girlfriend came with me to discuss it with the director and he was telling her that every teacher must pay. My GF asked one of my colleagues, who happens to be her friend and she told her that she needs to borrow some cash to pay it. I do not have info on nearby schools but will ask around.

I have never missed a day (except for pre-arranged holidays and sick leave), always turn up on time, do my best to educate the kids and they seem to like me, there are some teachers here though who envy me either for my popularity among kids or for the fact that a farang can make as much or more money as they do, but I can cope with them and say FEA (<deleted> 'em all).

This would/will be my 3rd year in the Land of (sometimes fake) Smiles and until now I was not disappointed. This school is ok, the work is not too demanding, not much room for personal or professional development even on the long run, but it is fine with me for now and I am willing to stay another year, especially now that they want to renew my contract for 12 months and not only for 10, so I would get paid holiday. They still would not pay for my work permit though but keep telling me that the school would pay for the Khurusapa course if it ever happens.

I did not get my 5k back, and as I have written before that much is acceptable for me.

According to the contract I can resign with a 2 month notice and they could fire me with the same condition, although I am sure they would do it without the notice if circumstances were such and then leave me to dispute/fight it.

[TerryLH]

It used to be a common practice for Thai teachers at private schools.

It was an incentive for them to stay there instead of trying to get a job at a government school.

[lostinisaan]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I have the feeling that they just want to safeguard themselves with this money. The director is a kind of new guy, he was the one who hired me and keeps telling me that I am a good teacher. I am the only foreigner here and my Thai girlfriend came with me to discuss it with the director and he was telling her that every teacher must pay. My GF asked one of my colleagues, who happens to be her friend and she told her that she needs to borrow some cash to pay it. I do not have info on nearby schools but will ask around.

I have never missed a day (except for pre-arranged holidays and sick leave), always turn up on time, do my best to educate the kids and they seem to like me, there are some teachers here though who envy me either for my popularity among kids or for the fact that a farang can make as much or more money as they do, but I can cope with them and say FEA (<deleted> 'em all).

This would/will be my 3rd year in the Land of (sometimes fake) Smiles and until now I was not disappointed. This school is ok, the work is not too demanding, not much room for personal or professional development even on the long run, but it is fine with me for now and I am willing to stay another year, especially now that they want to renew my contract for 12 months and not only for 10, so I would get paid holiday. They still would not pay for my work permit though but keep telling me that the school would pay for the Khurusapa course if it ever happens.

I did not get my 5k back, and as I have written before that much is acceptable for me.

According to the contract I can resign with a 2 month notice and they could fire me with the same condition, although I am sure they would do it without the notice if circumstances were such and then leave me to dispute/fight it.

Directors at most schools are so corrupt that even cops should take their hat off. You should know that Thai teachers have to pay good money to get a job at a better government school, it's never about the best qualifications.- ( similar to Wall Street, perhaps?)

My Pee Sao( older sister) my Thai neighbor wanted to work in the city we're living in, tired of commuting back and forth 40 km's every day. All went well until they told her to put 400 K in a white envelope and come back. Then she'd have the job. My friend freaked out and was really upset about her own "customs."

So basically, your new Big Mc included the foreigners in his plan for a bigger house, another Mia Noi, god knows what. We jus recently had a meeting that the school's about 6 million baht short, while the big man's building a house for the same amount. Coincidence? Lol.......

A work permit is 3.1 K, the visa 1.9, so don't worry about the 5 K. The only way to change that is to make it in a way that the idea to pay for comes from a Thai.

I did that at my former school and they finally paid for all expenses when I told the HoD that it shows the school's view of foreign teachers and how welcome they really are.But I had to lay all words on her tongue and she went to the boss and told him that as it was her idea. Problem solved.

I really hope for you that you do not have to do one English camp after the other in the summer break. Some schools really let you do a lot of work, English camps, seminars, tutoring and all without any extra pay. They think they own your arsse.

Follow your gut feeling and if it gets worse leave the school. If the guy's thinking that he can milk more money out of you, say goodbye and don't look back. Keep your good work up because it's finally the students who should learn English. Do your job, don't listen to the everywhere existing gossip and go home after work.

Have a nice holiday and don't forget to smile. aeeh lie...aeeh wai...aee why, or try? Damn Alzheimer.-

[kuulmellow]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I have the feeling that they just want to safeguard themselves with this money. The director is a kind of new guy, he was the one who hired me and keeps telling me that I am a good teacher. I am the only foreigner here and my Thai girlfriend came with me to discuss it with the director and he was telling her that every teacher must pay. My GF asked one of my colleagues, who happens to be her friend and she told her that she needs to borrow some cash to pay it. I do not have info on nearby schools but will ask around.

I have never missed a day (except for pre-arranged holidays and sick leave), always turn up on time, do my best to educate the kids and they seem to like me, there are some teachers here though who envy me either for my popularity among kids or for the fact that a farang can make as much or more money as they do, but I can cope with them and say FEA (<deleted> 'em all).

This would/will be my 3rd year in the Land of (sometimes fake) Smiles and until now I was not disappointed. This school is ok, the work is not too demanding, not much room for personal or professional development even on the long run, but it is fine with me for now and I am willing to stay another year, especially now that they want to renew my contract for 12 months and not only for 10, so I would get paid holiday. They still would not pay for my work permit though but keep telling me that the school would pay for the Khurusapa course if it ever happens.

I did not get my 5k back, and as I have written before that much is acceptable for me.

According to the contract I can resign with a 2 month notice and they could fire me with the same condition, although I am sure they would do it without the notice if circumstances were such and then leave me to dispute/fight it.

Directors at most schools are so corrupt that even cops should take their hat off. You should know that Thai teachers have to pay good money to get a job at a better government school, it's never about the best qualifications.- ( similar to Wall Street, perhaps?)

My Pee Sao( older sister) my Thai neighbor wanted to work in the city we're living in, tired of commuting back and forth 40 km's every day. All went well until they told her to put 400 K in a white envelope and come back. Then she'd have the job. My friend freaked out and was really upset about her own "customs."

So basically, your new Big Mc included the foreigners in his plan for a bigger house, another Mia Noi, god knows what. We jus recently had a meeting that the school's about 6 million baht short, while the big man's building a house for the same amount. Coincidence? Lol.......

A work permit is 3.1 K, the visa 1.9, so don't worry about the 5 K. The only way to change that is to make it in a way that the idea to pay for comes from a Thai.

I did that at my former school and they finally paid for all expenses when I told the HoD that it shows the school's view of foreign teachers and how welcome they really are.But I had to lay all words on her tongue and she went to the boss and told him that as it was her idea. Problem solved.

I really hope for you that you do not have to do one English camp after the other in the summer break. Some schools really let you do a lot of work, English camps, seminars, tutoring and all without any extra pay. They think they own your arsse.

Follow your gut feeling and if it gets worse leave the school. If the guy's thinking that he can milk more money out of you, say goodbye and don't look back. Keep your good work up because it's finally the students who should learn English. Do your job, don't listen to the everywhere existing gossip and go home after work.

Have a nice holiday and don't forget to smile. aeeh lie...aeeh wai...aee why, or try? Damn Alzheimer.-

dear lostinisaan, I truly appreciate your input, you obviously have more experience than I do and you can also handle it with wit and sarcasm which I really dig

I heard it thorough the grapevine that our po 'or was fired from his last job due to some corruption issues and landed at this school, so the corruption line is right, although in this case it looks apparent that he would not want to keep the money for himself, but who knows, right?

The school year soon ends and they/we will have summer school, he offered to pay me some ( 3k) for that, which is not bad considering that the offer was not on the table before. I have already learned that I do not do anything free here, as these people are the greediest I have ever seen and being nice to them just fuels their greed.

thanks again and you too have a nice evening and holiday, too

[recom273]

I think it's illegal to take a deposit as part of a job.

I worked in a place that had a compulsory savings scheme, your wages were cut and 11k returned at the end of the year.

I understand that it's a way to ensure the teacher doesn't disappear during the holidays or the end of the second month, but pay-up before you start teaching would be a no-no.

I got deducted 1k for 5 months + book fee's in a PT job once, my boss from my FT job came with a proposal that we would make lost time up on Saturday, so I called a meeting with my PT boss and said look, this is the score, would you prefer if I just left rather than mess you about because I will be taking a months holiday after - she smiled, thanked me for coming to discuss it, accepted my proposal. When it came to payday I was 5,000B light .. It didn't end well.

From then on, I have walked away from

Interviews after asking for a deposit.

[kuulmellow]

I think it's illegal to take a deposit as part of a job.

I worked in a place that had a compulsory savings scheme, your wages were cut and 11k returned at the end of the year.

I understand that it's a way to ensure the teacher doesn't disappear during the holidays or the end of the second month, but pay-up before you start teaching would be a no-no.

I got deducted 1k for 5 months + book fee's in a PT job once, my boss from my FT job came with a proposal that we would make lost time up on Saturday, so I called a meeting with my PT boss and said look, this is the score, would you prefer if I just left rather than mess you about because I will be taking a months holiday after - she smiled, thanked me for coming to discuss it, accepted my proposal. When it came to payday I was 5,000B light .. It didn't end well.

From then on, I have walked away from

Interviews after asking for a deposit.

hi recom,

I also think that it is illegal but what can you do in a dangerously corrupt country? I basically have 2 options: resign and start looking for a new job or start massaging the current offer and hopefully can get a better one. I have chosen the second one and although I am not completely content with it, I did manage to churn out better conditions and more money. The funny thing is that the director kept parroting that it is a policy which I still cannot believe but it affects the Thai staff, too.

[lostinisaan]

I think it's illegal to take a deposit as part of a job.

I worked in a place that had a compulsory savings scheme, your wages were cut and 11k returned at the end of the year.

I understand that it's a way to ensure the teacher doesn't disappear during the holidays or the end of the second month, but pay-up before you start teaching would be a no-no.

I got deducted 1k for 5 months + book fee's in a PT job once, my boss from my FT job came with a proposal that we would make lost time up on Saturday, so I called a meeting with my PT boss and said look, this is the score, would you prefer if I just left rather than mess you about because I will be taking a months holiday after - she smiled, thanked me for coming to discuss it, accepted my proposal. When it came to payday I was 5,000B light .. It didn't end well.

From then on, I have walked away from

Interviews after asking for a deposit.

I think it's illegal to take a deposit as part of a job.

Dude, I think there are so many things illegal here but nobody seems to know what legal is.

[lostinisaan]

They are scamming you. Take your contract to the labour department.

And one phone call later, the OP's without employment. Sorry, but that's how it's basically is.

[sunnyjim5]

I cannot understand why anyone would accept conditions of employment such as described.

Are people desperate to secure a very low paying job at any cost or are they unemployable (for what ever reason) in their own countries?

[thesetat2013]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I have the feeling that they just want to safeguard themselves with this money. The director is a kind of new guy, he was the one who hired me and keeps telling me that I am a good teacher. I am the only foreigner here and my Thai girlfriend came with me to discuss it with the director and he was telling her that every teacher must pay. My GF asked one of my colleagues, who happens to be her friend and she told her that she needs to borrow some cash to pay it. I do not have info on nearby schools but will ask around.

I have never missed a day (except for pre-arranged holidays and sick leave), always turn up on time, do my best to educate the kids and they seem to like me, there are some teachers here though who envy me either for my popularity among kids or for the fact that a farang can make as much or more money as they do, but I can cope with them and say FEA (<deleted> 'em all).

This would/will be my 3rd year in the Land of (sometimes fake) Smiles and until now I was not disappointed. This school is ok, the work is not too demanding, not much room for personal or professional development even on the long run, but it is fine with me for now and I am willing to stay another year, especially now that they want to renew my contract for 12 months and not only for 10, so I would get paid holiday. They still would not pay for my work permit though but keep telling me that the school would pay for the Khurusapa course if it ever happens.

I did not get my 5k back, and as I have written before that much is acceptable for me.

According to the contract I can resign with a 2 month notice and they could fire me with the same condition, although I am sure they would do it without the notice if circumstances were such and then leave me to dispute/fight it.

Directors at most schools are so corrupt that even cops should take their hat off. You should know that Thai teachers have to pay good money to get a job at a better government school, it's never about the best qualifications.- ( similar to Wall Street, perhaps?)

My Pee Sao( older sister) my Thai neighbor wanted to work in the city we're living in, tired of commuting back and forth 40 km's every day. All went well until they told her to put 400 K in a white envelope and come back. Then she'd have the job. My friend freaked out and was really upset about her own "customs."

So basically, your new Big Mc included the foreigners in his plan for a bigger house, another Mia Noi, god knows what. We jus recently had a meeting that the school's about 6 million baht short, while the big man's building a house for the same amount. Coincidence? Lol.......

A work permit is 3.1 K, the visa 1.9, so don't worry about the 5 K. The only way to change that is to make it in a way that the idea to pay for comes from a Thai.

I did that at my former school and they finally paid for all expenses when I told the HoD that it shows the school's view of foreign teachers and how welcome they really are.But I had to lay all words on her tongue and she went to the boss and told him that as it was her idea. Problem solved.

I really hope for you that you do not have to do one English camp after the other in the summer break. Some schools really let you do a lot of work, English camps, seminars, tutoring and all without any extra pay. They think they own your arsse.

Follow your gut feeling and if it gets worse leave the school. If the guy's thinking that he can milk more money out of you, say goodbye and don't look back. Keep your good work up because it's finally the students who should learn English. Do your job, don't listen to the everywhere existing gossip and go home after work.

Have a nice holiday and don't forget to smile. aeeh lie...aeeh wai...aee why, or try? Damn Alzheimer.-

dear lostinisaan, I truly appreciate your input, you obviously have more experience than I do and you can also handle it with wit and sarcasm which I really dig

I heard it thorough the grapevine that our po 'or was fired from his last job due to some corruption issues and landed at this school, so the corruption line is right, although in this case it looks apparent that he would not want to keep the money for himself, but who knows, right?

The school year soon ends and they/we will have summer school, he offered to pay me some ( 3k) for that, which is not bad considering that the offer was not on the table before. I have already learned that I do not do anything free here, as these people are the greediest I have ever seen and being nice to them just fuels their greed.

thanks again and you too have a nice evening and holiday, too

Did you get back the 5000 you paid last year?

[menzies233]

It is not just teachers and not just foreigners.

One of my wifes family took a job driving a lorry delivering Coke (As in the Cola drink) He was required to pay 3K up front. It was as you suggest, a guarantee that he showed up for work and that he had an incentive not to damage the delivery truck.

[louse1953]

I think it's illegal to take a deposit as part of a job.

I worked in a place that had a compulsory savings scheme, your wages were cut and 11k returned at the end of the year.

I understand that it's a way to ensure the teacher doesn't disappear during the holidays or the end of the second month, but pay-up before you start teaching would be a no-no.

I got deducted 1k for 5 months + book fee's in a PT job once, my boss from my FT job came with a proposal that we would make lost time up on Saturday, so I called a meeting with my PT boss and said look, this is the score, would you prefer if I just left rather than mess you about because I will be taking a months holiday after - she smiled, thanked me for coming to discuss it, accepted my proposal. When it came to payday I was 5,000B light .. It didn't end well.

From then on, I have walked away from

Interviews after asking for a deposit.

hi recom,

I also think that it is illegal but what can you do in a dangerously corrupt country? I basically have 2 options: resign and start looking for a new job or start massaging the current offer and hopefully can get a better one. I have chosen the second one and although I am not completely content with it, I did manage to churn out better conditions and more money. The funny thing is that the director kept parroting that it is a policy which I still cannot believe but it affects the Thai staff, too.

You think Thais are predudice when it comes to a scam.They scam their own more because Thais,generally know the score.That is the problem,if Thais stood up it would soon stop.I was at Immi today to get my extension and the Immi guy want money to buy a pizza for lunch.I just laughed.The stamps were already in.He said i was lucky cos i was 1st for the day.Then had to get re entry permit,no probs.Bugger me dead,a farang then comes in and handed over an envelope for 200 baht,for a bloody 90 day report,unf.........believable.Immi laughed his head off.Missed one,but another fool will take up the slack.Wonder what he pays for the actual extension.

[mjnaus]

I cannot understand why anyone would accept conditions of employment such as described.

Are people desperate to secure a very low paying job at any cost or are they unemployable (for what ever reason) in their own countries?

My thoughts exactly!

[recom273]

It is not just teachers and not just foreigners.

One of my wifes family took a job driving a lorry delivering Coke (As in the Cola drink) He was required to pay 3K up front. It was as you suggest, a guarantee that he showed up for work and that he had an incentive not to damage the delivery truck.

Yes my wife is a pre-anuban teacher / nurse and she has 6K in the pot, that they took over a year, but new recruits have to pay up front.

She did look to get out of the business and always talked about making big money selling gold in a shop, apparently the wages are good and the staff get commision, the problem is you put down a big deposit, due to the risk of theft, but it's basically just like buying a job.

I have heard that new Thai teachers also have to buy into positions by showing commitment to the school by putting some money into the school pot. Directors sure do. That useless head of dept. .. well, they didn't get there with their language skills, you need to speculate to accumulate.

Which is why the good teachers just smile when you ask them why they have never thought to take a supervisors role.

[Dave12345678910]

You know you can make more money picking oranges in Aus then putting up with this

[Brer Fox]

Deposits should be paid in a brown envelope. It happens all over in the education system. The school system is a serious challenger for the top spot in the Thai payola system.

[Scott]

Much of it has to do with how they describe and frame the payment. I know one school that has a salary that is less during probation. Once off probation the salary goes up by 3,000 baht. The difference between the two salaries is a 'deposit' of sorts. When you leave, and have completed your contract, you get the money. If you break the contract, you do not get the money.

It may be less-than-legal, but there is not much you can do about it. If you go to the Ministry of Labor, you will not have a job.

[GanDoonToonPet]

At my first school (the SS), they held back 4k per month of the 35k salary & repaid it as a 'contract completion' bonus; many never made it to the end. Also, teachers with a WP paid 500B per month 'tax' which was again repaid at the end of the contract. Funny how how all teachers with salaries ranging from 35k-50k all paid the same tax! As for the teachers who couldn't get a WP...

At my second school, they deducted 2000B per month for the first 3 months, which was repaid at the end of the contract. This was to cover the visa / WP / extension costs should the teacher leave before the end of the contract. I completely agree with this & think this is the ideal compromise.The school also paid an actual completion bonus, not dependent on performance & even paid the taxes.

At my third school, we had to pay actual tax LOL. On top of this, the school deducted 5% per month in case of 'damages'. This was repaid at the end of the contract, except the year everyone left where they would hold it until you left the school. This was the best thing in the new contract offered, so we all left.

At my new school, everything is above board although there is a reduced salary during the first 3 months. On a totally unrelated point, the total reduction is almost exactly equal to the cost of the visa / WP / extension... Continuing teachers are not subject to this reduction.

To the OP... Since you are getting paid an extra 2 months salary (60k+) then I would take the 5k hit & not make waves; think of the big picture. When I consider any position, I always calculate by the annual net income for comparison purposes.

To the general point...The idea that a foreign teacher should bribe his way into a Gov't school position would be hilarious, if it wasn't so offensive. I can understand Thai teachers doing it as they have job security, a pension & other perks which you'll never have.