Tourism industry in Thailand continues to expand in Q1

[Scotwight]

Surprising how uninformed most here are about Chinese tourist spending.

According to a recent report from consultancies Fung Business Intelligence Centre and China Luxury Advisors, China’s outbound traveler numbers are still growing and are poised to double by 2020 to 234 million passengers, from more than 100 million last year.

This year, Chinese tourists’ spending overseas is expected to jump to $229 billion, up 23% from a year earlier, with purchases of clothing, footwear, cosmetics and electronics at the top of the list, according to the report. By 2020, their total overseas spending is expected to reach $422 billion, the report said.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2015/09/29/chinese-tourists-will-spend-229-billion-abroad-in-2015/

According to the Shanghai Travelers’ Club magazine, the favorite digital publication of China’s Elite, the most affluent of Chinese travelers plan to spend between US$55,000 and US$340,000 per year in shopping overseas.

https://chineseshoppers.wordpress.com/

[elgordo38]

Revenue from the tourism industry currently accounts for 10-14.5% of Thailand’s GDP compared to 2% in 2015. Foreign and local tourists generated revenues increased a year-on-year growth of 18.2% and 6.9% respectively.

As such it appears that Kobkarn has done a great job, albeit she has unique unfettered access to government funding and a personal relationship with the junta to push her own agenda.

However, the current growth in tourism faces some serious hazards, For example:

Domestic Terrorism - the Erawan Shrine bombing alone cost businesses a loss of 64.3 billion baht in tourism

International Terrorism - tourists tend to at home rather than travel to foreign destinations

Yuan - China continues to deflate its currency somewhat forced now as an accepted global currency

Deaths - tourist deaths in Thailand have soared 54%

Safety - Thailand ranks 130th out of 141 nations for tourist safety and security

Politics - the upcoming constitution referendum and elections have potential for severe public disruptions

Airport - Suvarnabhumi Airport flight traffic is overcapacity without a third runway

Prayut wants to replace the contracting export sector with tourism and domestic investments as the main drive for GDP growth. Domestic investments are not producing any quick results. For tourism to have any meaningful contribution to GDP growth, I estimate it will have to increase five-fold.

Perhaps Kobkarn needs a 20-year plan.

Where will all the water and services come from. I guess you can weave in more wires on the spaghetti junction outside of our condo. It amazes me that all services are stretched to the limit and yet they still want to double and triple the tourist numbers.

[Tony125]

Of all the conspiracy theories I read about on Thaivisa, the tourisms "final nail in the coffin" and " they are fudging the figures" one seems to be the most off the mark.

Despite what your friends who own businesses aimed at the farang tourist say, TOURIST NUMBERS ARE AT RECORD HIGH NUMBERS. It is petty easy to find if you google search.

You can verify these numbers easily country by country, because other countries also count the number of tourists going to Thailand and other countries. Or do the conspiracists believe that all foreign governments are working together with the corrupt Thais to fudge tourism figures?

A friend of mine owns a small hotel. She tells me that she is experiencing exactly what the TAT are claiming. She has had her best two months ever, farang numbers are down but overall it is up with people from China, Hong Kong, Korea flocking here, and in Pattaya she is booked out every single weekend with Thais mainly from Bangkok if she isn't already full. She has only had one weekend in the last year when she wasn't fully booked and that was one weekend last year when there was flooding in Pattaya and it was reports on the Bangkok news and some customers cancelled.

That overall tourist numbers are down is a THAIVISA MYTH. if it isn't, then show me the figures. Not From those "liars" at TAT but from anywhere other than Thai visa.

Funny how newbie comes on TV to tell those who have probably lived and or visted Thaialnd for more than 10 years that we don't know what we are talking about. Those high numbers visiting from Laos are not visitors but workers. Russian visitors down by half or more and if you read the whole article that you linked although the Chinese may drive up the total numbers of visitors but they don't spend money!

" PEBA President Weerawit Kuresombat attributed the decline to the rise in Chinese tourism. "...most of them [Chinese tourists] come on complete tour packages....This means they spend very little on extras....They rarely venture out for the nightlife or even visit independent restaurants. They just don't spend much",

[mistephenso]

Of all the conspiracy theories I read about on Thaivisa, the tourisms "final nail in the coffin" and " they are fudging the figures" one seems to be the most off the mark.

Despite what your friends who own businesses aimed at the farang tourist say, TOURIST NUMBERS ARE AT RECORD HIGH NUMBERS. It is petty easy to find if you google search.

You can verify these numbers easily country by country, because other countries also count the number of tourists going to Thailand and other countries. Or do the conspiracists believe that all foreign governments are working together with the corrupt Thais to fudge tourism figures?

A friend of mine owns a small hotel. She tells me that she is experiencing exactly what the TAT are claiming. She has had her best two months ever, farang numbers are down but overall it is up with people from China, Hong Kong, Korea flocking here, and in Pattaya she is booked out every single weekend with Thais mainly from Bangkok if she isn't already full. She has only had one weekend in the last year when she wasn't fully booked and that was one weekend last year when there was flooding in Pattaya and it was reports on the Bangkok news and some customers cancelled.

That overall tourist numbers are down is a THAIVISA MYTH. if it isn't, then show me the figures. Not From those "liars" at TAT but from anywhere other than Thai visa.

Where have you seen that other countries count their 'outgoing' tourists and compile a list of who is going to Thailand? The UK don't ask me where I'm going when I leave the country, although they may be able to guess my final destination from my flight...?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

Tourism numbers shown and where they are coming from. And where they used to come from.

Interesting link.

#8 is Singapore with 937k visitors last year (2015). This is nearly 20% of SG population.

#5 Laos with 1,2m visitors (2015). How many these are "Tourists" or simply "workers" same goes for Cambodia, unfortunaly Myanmar is not even in the list.

That table is compiled from data from the Thai Department of Tourism website here (it even states that in the citation reference):

http://www.tourism.go.th/home/listcontent/11/221/276

If you can read the Thai, you'll find lots of nice Excel spreadsheets detailing the nationality of all people entering Thailand for each month of the year, with a comparison to the prior year....

However, I was in and out of Thailand 4 times in 2015, so I was probably counted as 4 different people entering Thailand throughout the year. Unless they have people matching up the names on the arrival/departure papers (unlikely) or use the passport scans to count us (and take 3 from the yearly total for me)?

I would imagine they just count everyone, so people making multiple trips for business (or whatever) are skewing the statistics!

Does anyone actually know for sure?

[Scotwight]

Funny how newbie comes on TV to tell those who have probably lived and or visted Thaialnd for more than 10 years that we don't know what we are talking about. Those high numbers visiting from Laos are not visitors but workers. Russian visitors down by half or more and if you read the whole article that you linked although the Chinese may drive up the total numbers of visitors but they don't spend money!

" PEBA President Weerawit Kuresombat attributed the decline to the rise in Chinese tourism. "...most of them [Chinese tourists] come on complete tour packages....This means they spend very little on extras....They rarely venture out for the nightlife or even visit independent restaurants. They just don't spend much",

NUREMBERG, Germany, January 14, 2016 /PRNewswire/ --

• China hits 109 million outbound tourists
• South Korea and Thailand overtake Hong Kong as most popular destinations
• Europe beats North America as most popular destination outside of Asia

GfK's latest analyses of the Chinese market show that China produced 109 million outbound tourists in 2015 - with retail spend of US$229 billion. This is a key milestone in China's outbound tourism history.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/chinese-tourists-spend-us229-billion-in-2015-565212571.html

[Scotwight]

Of all the conspiracy theories I read about on Thaivisa, the tourisms "final nail in the coffin" and " they are fudging the figures" one seems to be the most off the mark.

Despite what your friends who own businesses aimed at the farang tourist say, TOURIST NUMBERS ARE AT RECORD HIGH NUMBERS. It is petty easy to find if you google search.

You can verify these numbers easily country by country, because other countries also count the number of tourists going to Thailand and other countries. Or do the conspiracists believe that all foreign governments are working together with the corrupt Thais to fudge tourism figures?

A friend of mine owns a small hotel. She tells me that she is experiencing exactly what the TAT are claiming. She has had her best two months ever, farang numbers are down but overall it is up with people from China, Hong Kong, Korea flocking here, and in Pattaya she is booked out every single weekend with Thais mainly from Bangkok if she isn't already full. She has only had one weekend in the last year when she wasn't fully booked and that was one weekend last year when there was flooding in Pattaya and it was reports on the Bangkok news and some customers cancelled.

That overall tourist numbers are down is a THAIVISA MYTH. if it isn't, then show me the figures. Not From those "liars" at TAT but from anywhere other than Thai visa.

Where have you seen that other countries count their 'outgoing' tourists and compile a list of who is going to Thailand? The UK don't ask me where I'm going when I leave the country, although they may be able to guess my final destination from my flight...?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

Tourism numbers shown and where they are coming from. And where they used to come from.

Interesting link.

#8 is Singapore with 937k visitors last year (2015). This is nearly 20% of SG population.

#5 Laos with 1,2m visitors (2015). How many these are "Tourists" or simply "workers" same goes for Cambodia, unfortunaly Myanmar is not even in the list.

That table is compiled from data from the Thai Department of Tourism website here (it even states that in the citation reference):

http://www.tourism.go.th/home/listcontent/11/221/276

If you can read the Thai, you'll find lots of nice Excel spreadsheets detailing the nationality of all people entering Thailand for each month of the year, with a comparison to the prior year....

However, I was in and out of Thailand 4 times in 2015, so I was probably counted as 4 different people entering Thailand throughout the year. Unless they have people matching up the names on the arrival/departure papers (unlikely) or use the passport scans to count us (and take 3 from the yearly total for me)?

I would imagine they just count everyone, so people making multiple trips for business (or whatever) are skewing the statistics!

Does anyone actually know for sure?

Yes I know, raises hand and writes on board. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/chinese-tourists-spend-us229-billion-in-2015-565212571.html

• China hits 109 million outbound tourists
• South Korea and Thailand overtake Hong Kong as most popular destinations

By the start of November 2015, the top five favorite destinations for Chinese travelers (counting air and overnight visits), were South Korea (representing a traveler increase of 112 percent since 2011), Thailand (up 263 percent), Hong Kong (up 37 percent), Japan (up 157 percent) and Taiwan (up 54 percent).

GfK is the trusted source of relevant market and consumer information that enables its clients to make smarter decisions.

Ah so do not use Thai data. Use GFK http://www.gfk.com/

China's new set: not 'tourists', but 'travelers'

According to GfK data, half (50 percent) of China's outbound travelers are aged 15-29 years old - the "millennials" group - while over a third (37 percent) are aged 30-44 and 10 percent are 45-59.

[Rayk]

I can't understand it really. People flocking here for vacation to only be ripped off, robbed, beaten, murdered harassed by police and immigration in a country with garbage spattered all over the country as well as the oceans.

If it wasn't for the fact i am getting married soon I would have left long ago.

[djjamie]

Of all the conspiracy theories I read about on Thaivisa, the tourisms "final nail in the coffin" and " they are fudging the figures" one seems to be the most off the mark.

Despite what your friends who own businesses aimed at the farang tourist say, TOURIST NUMBERS ARE AT RECORD HIGH NUMBERS. It is petty easy to find if you google search.

You can verify these numbers easily country by country, because other countries also count the number of tourists going to Thailand and other countries. Or do the conspiracists believe that all foreign governments are working together with the corrupt Thais to fudge tourism figures?

A friend of mine owns a small hotel. She tells me that she is experiencing exactly what the TAT are claiming. She has had her best two months ever, farang numbers are down but overall it is up with people from China, Hong Kong, Korea flocking here, and in Pattaya she is booked out every single weekend with Thais mainly from Bangkok if she isn't already full. She has only had one weekend in the last year when she wasn't fully booked and that was one weekend last year when there was flooding in Pattaya and it was reports on the Bangkok news and some customers cancelled.

That overall tourist numbers are down is a THAIVISA MYTH. if it isn't, then show me the figures. Not From those "liars" at TAT but from anywhere other than Thai visa.

Quite correct. World bank has the figures rising and trading economics graph below has it rising to.

I argued plenty 6 months after the coup that tourist numbers were rising only to be dismissed. I argued plenty 12 months after the coup that they were rising to be dismissed. I argued 18 months after the coup that numbers were rising only to be dismissed.

Now it seems that most Thai opposition supporters have resigned themselves to the fact that numbers have risen (record numbers in 2015 and this year already) so the argument has evolved into....BUT, BUT, BUT, BUT they don't spend much!!!

Tourist numbers will continue to rise and as shown by the Chinese figures they will spend more and more each year.

[Scotwight]

I can't understand it really. People flocking here for vacation to only be ripped off, robbed, beaten, murdered harassed by police and immigration in a country with garbage spattered all over the country as well as the oceans.

If it wasn't for the fact i am getting married soon I would have left long ago.

I think it is because people get robbed, beaten, murdered harassed by police in a country with garbage spattered all over the country as well as the oceans is cleaner and less dangerous than China where the majority of tourists come from. Less spitting and cleaner toilets that's for sure.

[hugh2121]

I go to Pattaya once a week for shopping. Supermarkets very quiet as is Beach Road. So, where are they all?

I was in Pattaya for the day last Wednesday. Hilton was packed as was the buffet at the edge. Central mall was packed. I went shopping on the way home at Foodland and it was packed. Traffic all over town was jammed up. Town was very busy and all roads clogged with traffic. I lived in Pattaya ten years ago and now it as busy as I've ever seen it.

So, maybe Wednesday is the busy day for some reason. No queues at checkouts in Big C Extra on Monday and not many checkouts open either.

[BangkokKen]

traditonal Farang orientated tourism is dead.

Asian tourism is booming.

[Oziex1]

They missed a few of the can't miss cities and added them on this year.

[Plutojames88]

Of all the conspiracy theories I read about on Thaivisa, the tourisms "final nail in the coffin" and " they are fudging the figures" one seems to be the most off the mark.

Despite what your friends who own businesses aimed at the farang tourist say, TOURIST NUMBERS ARE AT RECORD HIGH NUMBERS. It is petty easy to find if you google search.

You can verify these numbers easily country by country, because other countries also count the number of tourists going to Thailand and other countries. Or do the conspiracists believe that all foreign governments are working together with the corrupt Thais to fudge tourism figures?

A friend of mine owns a small hotel. She tells me that she is experiencing exactly what the TAT are claiming. She has had her best two months ever, farang numbers are down but overall it is up with people from China, Hong Kong, Korea flocking here, and in Pattaya she is booked out every single weekend with Thais mainly from Bangkok if she isn't already full. She has only had one weekend in the last year when she wasn't fully booked and that was one weekend last year when there was flooding in Pattaya and it was reports on the Bangkok news and some customers cancelled.

That overall tourist numbers are down is a THAIVISA MYTH. if it isn't, then show me the figures. Not From those "liars" at TAT but from anywhere other than Thai visa.

Quite correct. World bank has the figures rising and trading economics graph below has it rising to.

I argued plenty 6 months after the coup that tourist numbers were rising only to be dismissed. I argued plenty 12 months after the coup that they were rising to be dismissed. I argued 18 months after the coup that numbers were rising only to be dismissed.

Now it seems that most Thai opposition supporters have resigned themselves to the fact that numbers have risen (record numbers in 2015 and this year already) so the argument has evolved into....BUT, BUT, BUT, BUT they don't spend much!!!

Tourist numbers will continue to rise and as shown by the Chinese figures they will spend more and more each year.

They won't just continue to visit ...

They will continue to "" influence""

The word tourist for now may apply .

But later they will simply be visiting an outpost of Communist China .

Thailand already sounds like China.

Words like "" Road Map"" ..."" Plan"" ..."" The People"" ....and "" twelve virtues "" ...the platitudes and control , and propaganda and the undeniable orchestra of state self righteousness , and diminished free speech and rights.

Brag about importing the citizens of a Communist country to make up your falling numbers of westerners.

The reality is "" the system "" resembles a metamorphosis of a lost democracy .

It's Chinese visitors will soon be your better cousins who you will answer to.

The flag burning outside US embassies will have a toll to pay down the track when China won't take no for an answer.

[DrTuner]

What I'd like to see is how many times the Chinese come. I suspect it's a one-off and while the spring is the size of a lake, eventually even that will dry up.

[madmitch]

I have no reason to doubt the tourist arrival numbers but the average stay need to be taken into account.

Assuming the average stay for a Chinese tourist is 5 days and the average stay for a European is ten days, in simplistic terms you need two Chinese visitors to equate to each European visitor. And this is probably happening and that's why the tourist numbers are up overall.

And the person who stated he hasn't seen many Chinese tourists in Phuket should take a look at the car bus parks in the big hotels at 9 o'clock every morning. Or go on a day trip to Koh Phi Phi or James Bond Island. That's where you'll find them, in their thousands!

[dcnx]

I'm not sure what Thailand SHE'S talking about, but my discussions with various business owners and entrepreneurs paints quite a different picture.

Anyone not making money from tourism at the moment is catering to the wrong group.

How to say, "adapt or die" in Chinese Mandarin?

[Rancid]

traditonal Farang orientated tourism is dead.

Asian tourism is booming.

Commented on CM forum, renting my upmarket house that always had western tenants, current inquiries just Thai, Korean and Chinese. Very anecdotal, but with other observations seems like a demographic change to me.

Wife and I leaving CM for more laid back locale as now too busy for us.

Seems to me that Thailand is changing for "farangs" and many won't like it, especially if being perceived as low on the economic totem pole.

[phoenixdoglover]

Tourism's expanding ! Well of course, couldn't be anything else with this lady around but her regular as clockwork claims fool no one and just serve to make her look and sound ridiculous.

As a hiso lady i presume she's had a ' good education ', whatever that means here, but I wonder if she ever came across the works of Big Bill Shakespeare and what he had to say about mouthy women ?

Ask the future President of the USA (Hillary Clinton) they both went to the same college.

So lightning does strike twice.

Wellesley is the highest ranking women's college in the U.S. Soong Mei-ling also went to school there.

Yes but P'Kobkarn washed out of Wellesley and transferred to RISD; a decent school but not in the same class.

[Assurancetourix]

This is one off the best seasons ever here, so yes the numbers count up

there is a lot off chinese travling individually, rusians are here again, thai and so on

thaivisa users are mostly angry faring who no longer can afford drinking beer and taking ladys out off the sex bars

and they see how the sex business is down bars are closing and thailand is developing to be a family vacation place instead off a sex tourist place

55555 / Maybe you don't know that 95% of karaoke/sex workers are for thai people ..

What u can see in Pattaya about farang and sex bars is a drop in the sea compare to what exist for thai people .

[dru2]

Would be very interesting to see how many travelers are here when there no visa border runners left.

About 98%.

[Scotwight]

So lightning does strike twice.

Wellesley is the highest ranking women's college in the U.S. Soong Mei-ling also went to school there.

Yes but P'Kobkarn washed out of Wellesley and transferred to RISD; a decent school but not in the same class.

Please provide link to P'Kobkarn washing out of Wellesley or admit that you are lying. Transfer is one thing and washing out is another thing and a very negative slur against the woman and I think a lie. So, please provide link or admit you are a liar.

[Scotwight]

What I'd like to see is how many times the Chinese come. I suspect it's a one-off and while the spring is the size of a lake, eventually even that will dry up.

16 million Chinese babies born every year, so ----- ya sure.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Scotwight

[lkv]

Would be very interesting to see how many travelers are here when there no visa border runners left.

About 98%.

100% minus 15% (genuine tourists decrease in numbers) plus 10% (overstayers becoming tourists).

So 100-15+10=95.

We are close with the numbers, just different way of calculating.

Edited March 20, 2016 by lkv

[phoenixdoglover]

So lightning does strike twice.

Wellesley is the highest ranking women's college in the U.S. Soong Mei-ling also went to school there.

Yes but P'Kobkarn washed out of Wellesley and transferred to RISD; a decent school but not in the same class.

Please provide link to P'Kobkarn washing out of Wellesley or admit that you are lying. Transfer is one thing and washing out is another thing and a very negative slur against the woman and I think a lie. So, please provide link or admit you are a liar.

You don't transfer out of Wellesley. You wash out. Transfer is just a nice way of putting it. My opinion, of course, based on being enmeshed in that rarified atmosphere myself, thankfully many years ago.

By the way, your bullying style doesn't work. On Internet forums, it's ludicrous.

[CharlieH]

Post removed.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[hawker9000]

Yes but P'Kobkarn washed out of Wellesley and transferred to RISD; a decent school but not in the same class.

Please provide link to P'Kobkarn washing out of Wellesley or admit that you are lying. Transfer is one thing and washing out is another thing and a very negative slur against the woman and I think a lie. So, please provide link or admit you are a liar.

You don't transfer out of Wellesley. You wash out. Transfer is just a nice way of putting it. My opinion, of course, based on being enmeshed in that rarified atmosphere myself, thankfully many years ago.

By the way, your bullying style doesn't work. On Internet forums, it's ludicrous.

So no link - you are a liar. You have no evidence she washed out of Wellesley - so you are a liar. A liar and a person who wants to sully the ladies reputation with no other proof except your lies. You said she washed out of Wellesley with no proof and that is a lie. My style is to tell the truth and yours is to lie.

The fact that he doesn't provide the support for his argument that you're demanding, weakens his argument perhaps but doesn't make him a liar. (That which is merely unproven isn't necessarily a "lie"; just unproven.) But you calling him a liar does say something about you... Your personal attack on him is of precisely the same genre as what you're accusing him of! I'm sure you're WELL aware that U.S. colleges & universities do NOT routinely release transcripts or excerpts to the public, though the person concerned certainly MAY authorize this if they so choose. Apparently, P'Kobkarn has, for whatever reason, chosen not to... 'Leaving everyone to their own conclusions.

[Scotwight]

Please provide link to P'Kobkarn washing out of Wellesley or admit that you are lying. Transfer is one thing and washing out is another thing and a very negative slur against the woman and I think a lie. So, please provide link or admit you are a liar.

You don't transfer out of Wellesley. You wash out. Transfer is just a nice way of putting it. My opinion, of course, based on being enmeshed in that rarified atmosphere myself, thankfully many years ago.

By the way, your bullying style doesn't work. On Internet forums, it's ludicrous.

So no link - you are a liar. You have no evidence she washed out of Wellesley - so you are a liar. A liar and a person who wants to sully the ladies reputation with no other proof except your lies. You said she washed out of Wellesley with no proof and that is a lie. My style is to tell the truth and yours is to lie.

The fact that he doesn't provide the support for his argument that you're demanding, weakens his argument perhaps but doesn't make him a liar. (That which is merely unproven isn't necessarily a "lie"; just unproven.) But you calling him a liar does say something about you... Your personal attack on him is of precisely the same genre as what you're accusing him of! I'm sure you're WELL aware that U.S. colleges & universities do NOT routinely release transcripts or excerpts to the public, though the person concerned certainly MAY authorize this if they so choose. Apparently, P'Kobkarn has, for whatever reason, chosen not to... 'Leaving everyone to their own conclusions.

You would have a bit of a point if he had said, "I think. or maybe, or it's my opinion, or perhaps she washed out of Welleseley" But he didn't. He said, "Yes but P'Kobkarn washed out of Wellesley." He stated it as a fact. Defamation is all about reputation, and in particular about statements which damage others' reputations. Washed out of Wellesley is defamatory.

If I state something as a fact, be sure that I will be able to back it up. If not I'll state it as my opinion.

If you state something you don't know is true as being true that is a lie. In any event, the burden of proof lies with the person who is making the claim not me. He has posted insulting statements about a high government official with no proof and I find that offensive.

That a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false is called the "Argument from ignorance" if you care to google it and find the logical reasons why your statements are false.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Scotwight

[phoenixdoglover]

Please provide link to P'Kobkarn washing out of Wellesley or admit that you are lying. Transfer is one thing and washing out is another thing and a very negative slur against the woman and I think a lie. So, please provide link or admit you are a liar.

You don't transfer out of Wellesley. You wash out. Transfer is just a nice way of putting it. My opinion, of course, based on being enmeshed in that rarified atmosphere myself, thankfully many years ago.

By the way, your bullying style doesn't work. On Internet forums, it's ludicrous.

So no link - you are a liar. You have no evidence she washed out of Wellesley - so you are a liar. A liar and a person who wants to sully the ladies reputation with no other proof except your lies. You said she washed out of Wellesley with no proof and that is a lie. My style is to tell the truth and yours is to lie.

The fact that he doesn't provide the support for his argument that you're demanding, weakens his argument perhaps but doesn't make him a liar. (That which is merely unproven isn't necessarily a "lie"; just unproven.) But you calling him a liar does say something about you... Your personal attack on him is of precisely the same genre as what you're accusing him of! I'm sure you're WELL aware that U.S. colleges & universities do NOT routinely release transcripts or excerpts to the public, though the person concerned certainly MAY authorize this if they so choose. Apparently, P'Kobkarn has, for whatever reason, chosen not to... 'Leaving everyone to their own conclusions.

You would have a bit of a point if he had said, "I think. or maybe, or it's my opinion, or perhaps she washed out of Welleseley" But he didn't. He said, "Yes but P'Kobkarn washed out of Wellesley." He stated it as a fact. Defamation is all about reputation, and in particular about statements which damage others' reputations. Washed out of Wellesley is defamatory.

If I state something as a fact, be sure that I will be able to back it up. If not I'll state it as my opinion.

If you state something you don't know is true as being true that is a lie. In any event, the burden of proof lies with the person who is making the claim not me. He has posted insulting statements about a high government official with no proof and I find that offensive.

I stated in my reply to you that it was my opinion.

Perhaps you could explain what I meant by "washed out". Good luck.

[Scotwight]

Response to the above - washed out of college means flunked out (failed). As in "19 women washed out of Army Ranger School."