Building A Cellar, Why Or Why Not

[Swelters]

Swelters,

I went out and found that in May 2006 for Chiangrai the dew point ranged from a high of 77 to a low

It almost looks like they got the dew point data reversed for Chiangrai and Bangkok!!! Also if you look at your data for Bangkok closely you will see that there was probably some problem with their system because there are some flat spots in the dewpoint plot which I'm reasonably certain do not reflect real world conditions.

Chownah

P.S. Thanks for the link...

Chownah

Nope, it's my mistake, not theirs...I got the labels reversed. So Chiang Rai really is nicer than Bkk in May. (Although the Bkk record is for Don Muang, and downtown Bkk isn't quite as bad).

If you plot the daily range of temp and dew point on the chart I linked to the other day, you can see some interesting stuff as shown on the superimposed image below, more on this later.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Swelters

[Gary A]

Swelters,

I went out and found that in May 2006 for Chiangrai the dew point ranged from a high of 77 to a low

It almost looks like they got the dew point data reversed for Chiangrai and Bangkok!!! Also if you look at your data for Bangkok closely you will see that there was probably some problem with their system because there are some flat spots in the dewpoint plot which I'm reasonably certain do not reflect real world conditions.

Chownah

P.S. Thanks for the link...

Chownah

Nope, it's my mistake, not theirs...I got the labels reversed. So Chiang Rai really is nicer than Bkk in May. (Although the Bkk record is for Don Muang, and downtown Bkk isn't quite as bad).

If you plot the daily range of temp and dew point on the chart I linked to the other day, you can see some interesting stuff as shown on the superimposed image below, more on this later.

I REALLY like the idea of a basement but when I mentioned it to my wife she looked at me like I was insane.

When I asked her to explain she told me that it would be too wet and it would smell bad. Since my wife knows EVERYTHING it did no good to argue.

[phibunmike]

Lets put aside the question of humidity for now. The first question relates to the notion of a cellar being "cool". So it might be, but in what country? Not Thailand.

The deep earth temperature is close to the mean annual air temperature, actually somewhat higher because of geothermal heat (negligable) and where present solar heating of the ground (which may be large.) But even assuming it's equal to mean annual temperature, do you think this is cool? I think not.

My dogs scrape away a couple of cm of dirt and get to the cool dirt underneath to lie on. So I think the underlying soil might in fact be cooler, because it does not receive direct sunlight all day, and soil is a poor conductor of heat. All the heat underground (excepting the extremely minor geothermal contribution) gets there by conduction from the sun's heat on the surface.

IMHO.

As someone said earlier, there are underground homes and hotels in central Oz which are there to keep cool.

[quiksilva]

Some condo's here have underground water storage tanks. One such example is Harbour View on Sukhumvit 24.

Its certainly cool down there (when its drained for maintenance) but the problem is the sealant on those tanks constantly leaks and cracks and is always being patched. Its a major PITA.

I think it would work in the shortterm and its a great logical idea but the maintenance of the waterproofing sealant will be an on-going nightmare that will be more hassle than its worth.

[Nawtilus]

Ok, in the last few days I have found 3 properties that have or will have basements.

One is the 'sails' condo project in Pattaya, they are having ALL underground car parking, something you do not see here in bangkok really.

A typical thai style cheap condo in the area where I live in bangkok has just been completed and they have an underground carpark also now.

And last but most importantly is a boutique condo project nearby my house, has and they have left an old buidling, old as in around 20 years, maybe more and this building has been built so strong that they have left it and will be remodelling it only as a facility for the project. Now this building is 2 levels above ground and has a HUGE basement, I asked the developer about it and he said that it was built so strong that it has absoluetly no problems with leakage or moisture.

Now keep in mind that my house is very close and we dug a hole for the pool and the natural water table is only 1m below the surface.

So a basement can be done here properly and just simply depends on how it is constructed as to its success.

[chownah]

I think that drainage is the issue. Underdrains with sumps and pumps are do-able so long as any pump failure can be detected and remedied before it becomes disasterous.....this is probably more economically feasible for large projects than for homes because a wet car park is not a big deal but a wet domestic basement is really messy.

Chownah

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

Hi,

It's a fact that the mean temp of the Earth is 54f 2-3 metres feet below the ground.

I'm pretty sure we can all attest to the fact that the vast majority of Thai people are fantastic at copying the ideas of others, whatever that idea might be, but hey have almost zero ability to 'think outside the box' and create new ideas themselves (mainly thanks to their 'memorization / regurgitation form of education).

The current glut of 'European style houses' simply comes from the fact that they are taking an idea that works well in Europe (a house with bedrooms upstairs where it's warmer - works well in a cooler climate) and copying in it here (hot climate - doesn't work well).

Building ovens on top of a natural fridge? Do something different? Never. Copy what's been done time and again before? Don't ask 'why', just do it. Other people sell houses that are massively inefficient, why can't we?

The consumer in Thailand has virtually no choice. Town house or European 'luxury house'. That's your choice.

As for building a cellar - certainly feasible. Yes, it would depend on the location for sure. It doesn't have to be below the natural ground level either. Build it above the waterline and simply back fill it with earth, keep the earth moist (sprinkler system), bring in air from the outside that comes through a system of underground pipes, hence that air is cooled naturally too, and pump that air into the 'cellar'. Not difficult to do, requires thinking outside the box - that's difficult, and most Thais, simply impossible.

Cheers

James

[chownah]

Building the basement above the existing grade is a good idea which I presented before...guess you didn't read the entire thread.

It is NOT a fact that "the mean temp of the Earth is 54f 2-3 metres feet below the ground. " At a depth of 2 or 3 "metres feet" below the ground the temperature is fairly constant at about the average yearly air temperature for that location....so it varies from place to place.....this also assumes that the water table is more than 2 or 3 "metres feet" below ground level which is not the case in many places.

Chownah

[astral]

Reading the last few posts, it occurs to me that Thai houses do have basements.

The traditional house is built on posts to raise it above the ground.

This area under the house is often bricked in and in effect creates a basement.

It all depends on how you view it.