Are pre loaded set top boxes legal?

[TheCruncher]

Just yesterday I saw an announcement that Black Box is now available in Thailand, but the question is of course if they are legal.

In fact this not only concerns Black box, but extends to all similar services, like expattv an Ilikehd just to name a few, sold in Thailand.

Black box claim to be completely legal.

http://myblackbox.tv/

Is BOX legal?

Yes. Absolutely. BOX is Legal. In the same way that your computer, gaming system, tablet and smart phones are legal. BOX merely uses third party programs written externally by programmers and developers via OTT content and IPTV services. These programs simply provide a platform between online entertainment streams and hosts offering content. You are streaming content rather than downloading, storing and rebroadcasting, and that is not illegal. According to F.A.C.T (Federation Against Copywrite Theft) nobody in the UK has ever been prosecuted or fined for watching streamed content (November 2015)

But is this a true statement?

From looking on the web it seems not. This is what FACT, the same organization Box claims to say that never any one has arrested, says on other occasions.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/set-top-tv-boxes-illegal-everything-9434317

A FACT spokeswoman said customers should be aware of what they can and can’t use boxes for.

She said: “When it comes to set-top boxes which stream content, the bottom line is that certain programmes and channels are only available through subscription pay services.

“If a device provides access to that content without a valid subscription from the recognised provider, then anyone using that device needs to be aware that they are accessing that content unlawfully.

In the same article is for all to see that in 2011 3 London men were arrested and sentenced to 15 years in jail, for selling pre loaded set top boxes. To my knowledge this was long before 2015.

It also quotes the same FACT spokeswoman as that the ONLY legal way to enjoy pay tv is by paying for a subscription offered by those providers.

That they are still serious about this shows the arrests that happened just yesterday.

https://torrentfreak.com/uk-police-arrest-pirate-box-seller-threaten-to-suspend-domain-160324/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

UK Police Arrest Pirate Box Seller, Threaten to Suspend Domain

• By Andy
• on March 24, 2016

Police have also confirmed the arrest of a 38-year-old man who was detained on suspicion of making and/or supplying articles for use in fraud, conspiracy to defraud, and two further offenses under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act and Proceeds of Crime Act.

PIPCU say that its investigation began in February 2016 after a broadcaster complained that modified devices were being sold both on the Internet and from a shop in Walthamstow. Details coming out of PIPCU are scarce but it’s possible that the broadcaster in question was either Sky TV and/or the Premier League, whose content is widely offered for streaming via these kinds of units. <snip>

With software like Popcorn Time and Showbox also gaining in popularity due to their placement on these devices, plug-and-play piracy is now a reality and rightsholders everywhere are more than tired of it.

So what is your opinion regarding this and do you think Thai law enforcement will act in the future on request of UK law enforcement?

[2fishin2]

This particular box operation which uses Kodi which is what the Kodi team is trying to stop. This box is using Kodi as its media source which is 100% illegal. Looks to be the same type operation the UK has been shutting down. Without having the box and software in hand to see coding etc it appears to be nothing more than just another Kodi "build." Look closely at the website screenshots and you will see IVUE being used which is a kodi addon and also the kodi rss feed running on the front page. Dude isnt very smart....

Anyways, I have forwarded the address and info to the Kodi team and reported the illegal operation to Thai Visa support desk. Im sure the BOX owner will receive a cease and desist letter from Kodi very soon. Ive done my part and maybe after some TV readers see this they can forward the info along also.

Kodi.tv and report them using the contact form which is set up specifically to target these scam artists!

[Chicog]

This particular box operation which uses Kodi which is what the Kodi team is trying to stop. This box is using Kodi as its media source which is 100% illegal. Looks to be the same type operation the UK has been shutting down. Without having the box and software in hand to see coding etc it appears to be nothing more than just another Kodi "build." Look closely at the website screenshots and you will see IVUE being used which is a kodi addon and also the kodi rss feed running on the front page. Dude isnt very smart....

Anyways, I have forwarded the address and info to the Kodi team and reported the illegal operation to Thai Visa support desk. Im sure the BOX owner will receive a cease and desist letter from Kodi very soon. Ive done my part and maybe after some TV readers see this they can forward the info along also.

Kodi.tv and report them using the contact form which is set up specifically to target these scam artists!

Snitches get stitches.

No one likes a grass son.

[TheCruncher]

This thread is certainly not about snitches, but if the law will catch up with the buyers of those boxes as well.

[nev]

This particular box operation which uses Kodi which is what the Kodi team is trying to stop. This box is using Kodi as its media source which is 100% illegal. Looks to be the same type operation the UK has been shutting down. Without having the box and software in hand to see coding etc it appears to be nothing more than just another Kodi "build." Look closely at the website screenshots and you will see IVUE being used which is a kodi addon and also the kodi rss feed running on the front page. Dude time very smart....

Anyways, I have forwarded the address and info to the Kodi team and reported the illegal operation to Thai Visa support desk. Im sure the BOX owner will receive a cease and desist letter from Kodi very soon. Ive done my part and maybe after some TV readers see this they can forward the info along also.

Kodi.tv and report them using the contact form which is set up specifically to target these scam artists!

Why waste your time reporting them to Kodi?, just let them be until the authority catches up with them.

[2fishin2]

This particular box operation which uses Kodi which is what the Kodi team is trying to stop. This box is using Kodi as its media source which is 100% illegal. Looks to be the same type operation the UK has been shutting down. Without having the box and software in hand to see coding etc it appears to be nothing more than just another Kodi "build." Look closely at the website screenshots and you will see IVUE being used which is a kodi addon and also the kodi rss feed running on the front page. Dude isnt very smart....

Anyways, I have forwarded the address and info to the Kodi team and reported the illegal operation to Thai Visa support desk. Im sure the BOX owner will receive a cease and desist letter from Kodi very soon. Ive done my part and maybe after some TV readers see this they can forward the info along also.

Kodi.tv and report them using the contact form which is set up specifically to target these scam artists!

Snitches get stitches.

No one likes a grass son.

Normally your comments in this section are helpful to many people. Childish comments such as the one above contradict your normality. Dont stoop to being one of the TV keyboard warriors please.

[Chicog]

Well since a forum sponsor sells pirated TV streams, I really don't see a need for you to go squealing to the feds over someone offering an alternative.

Poor form.

More to the point, you said "This box is using Kodi as its media source" which demonstrates that you understand precisely jack s--- what Kodi is. It is simply a media platform and does not host content.

Given the amount of overpriced crap fed to farang masquerading as Pay TV, I think such services offer a welcome alternative, and I really don't see why you feel so motivated to go running to teacher like a schoolgirl who's had her pigtail pulled.

So don't lecture me about childish behaviour.

[Chicog]

Oh and to the OP, if you are going to go the Kodi route, don't waste your time with things like Blackbox.

Just get your own media player and install Kodi, then learn how to install and maintain addons.

Because you're going to have to do that yourself eventually anyway.

All Blackbox is is a skinned Kodi with a particular set of addons and some pretty backgrounds.

There are lots of other builds out there that you can install yourself with a minimum of effort. It is nowhere near as hard as people think.

Anyone why buys a "preloaded" Kodi needs their head examined.

[2fishin2]

Well since a forum sponsor sells pirated TV streams, I really don't see a need for you to go squealing to the feds over someone offering an alternative.

Poor form.

More to the point, you said "This box is using Kodi as its media source" which demonstrates that you understand precisely jack s--- what Kodi is. It is simply a media platform and does not host content.

Given the amount of overpriced crap fed to farang masquerading as Pay TV, I think such services offer a welcome alternative, and I really don't see why you feel so motivated to go running to teacher like a schoolgirl who's had her pigtail pulled.

So don't lecture me about childish behaviour.

Just because a sponsor sells it doesn't make it legit or legal. FYI the TV thread appears to be gone now.

I would rather be correct than to stoop to the level you have done by trying to attack a person's credability with childish phrases.

I understand Kodi all to well and I can read and interpret posts. I think you failed to do both otherwise you might not have answered the way you did.

I did not say report to feds

The gist of my post was about an unscrupulous box seller's using free Kodi to sell on their devices which, is what Kodi is fighting.

[Chicog]

Well since a forum sponsor sells pirated TV streams, I really don't see a need for you to go squealing to the feds over someone offering an alternative.

Poor form.

More to the point, you said "This box is using Kodi as its media source" which demonstrates that you understand precisely jack s--- what Kodi is. It is simply a media platform and does not host content.

Given the amount of overpriced crap fed to farang masquerading as Pay TV, I think such services offer a welcome alternative, and I really don't see why you feel so motivated to go running to teacher like a schoolgirl who's had her pigtail pulled.

So don't lecture me about childish behaviour.

Just because a sponsor sells it doesn't make it legit or legal. FYI the TV thread appears to be gone now.

I would rather be correct than to stoop to the level you have done by trying to attack a person's credability with childish phrases.

I understand Kodi all to well and I can read and interpret posts. I think you failed to do both otherwise you might not have answered the way you did.

I did not say report to feds

The gist of my post was about an unscrupulous box seller's using free Kodi to sell on their devices which, is what Kodi is fighting.

Kodi is open source, so until they take it private, which was probably their long term intention, they can shut up bleating about it.

(And I have sponsored them since XBMC).

[2fishin2]

Agree my thoughts exactly. They need to stop open sourcing it and turn it into a profitable business. The founders would be millionaires by now. Seriously they have thrown away so much by going the way they have. Oh well we will keep reaping the rewards

[TheCruncher]

Kodi is open source and will always be, that are actually the basics behind the Kodi community.

What is the problem is that Kodi was created to stream media from your own private server or other private sources. Never was Kodi intended to stream live content, and certainly not for pirated content. That is also the reason why they are taking legal action against sellers of pre-loaded boxes, because Kodi don't want to be associated with those illegal practices.

https://torrentfreak.com/kodi-announces-legal-action-to-smash-piracy-links-160215/

The problem in a nutshell

Kodi is just a media player, it carries no content. However, Kodi has the ability to run third party plugins that in many instances make infringing content available to the user. So, when people load Kodi with plugins recommended by a friend and then see the latest movies listed, they believe that Kodi – and the people behind Kodi – are the ones providing them with the movies.

<snip>

“Most of all, we are tired of a thousand different salesmen and Youtubers making money off ruining our name. And there are even more people out there seeking to make a quick buck by selling ads on videos about getting free movies and TV while using Kodi in their channel name to make their content seem official, as if those videos are coming from us.”

There has already been vigorous debate in the Kodi forums over how far the team will be prepared to go, with suggestions that even people monetizing “Kodi tips” could become a target.

[Don Mega]

If Kodi is so against it why don't they simply remove the ability to run 3rd party plugins?

[TheCruncher]

If Kodi is so against it why don't they simply remove the ability to run 3rd party plugins?

I wouldn't say that too loud, because if they do that the majority of the Kodi users will have a box that is only a paperweight anymore. Most of the people who buy a pre loaded box are not aware of the illegality of it an think Kodi provides them with the addons.

But here is the reasoning from kodi.

https://torrentfreak.com/kodi-announces-legal-action-to-smash-piracy-links-160215/

Interestingly, while Team Kodi are clearly sick of being connected to piracy, they aren’t actually condemning what the user does.

“Team Kodi maintains an officially neutral stance on what users do with their own software. Kodi is open source software, and as long as the GPL is followed, you are welcome to do with it as you like,” Betzen explains.

“So while we don’t love this use of Kodi, as long as you know what illegal and potentially dangerous things you are getting yourself into and accept the fact that the Team will not be providing you with any support, then you are welcome to do what you like.”

[Chicog]

Kodi is open source and will always be, that are actually the basics behind the Kodi community.

What is the problem is that Kodi was created to stream media from your own private server or other private sources. Never was Kodi intended to stream live content, and certainly not for pirated content. That is also the reason why they are taking legal action against sellers of pre-loaded boxes, because Kodi don't want to be associated with those illegal practices.

https://torrentfreak.com/kodi-announces-legal-action-to-smash-piracy-links-160215/

The problem in a nutshell

Kodi is just a media player, it carries no content. However, Kodi has the ability to run third party plugins that in many instances make infringing content available to the user. So, when people load Kodi with plugins recommended by a friend and then see the latest movies listed, they believe that Kodi – and the people behind Kodi – are the ones providing them with the movies.

<snip>

“Most of all, we are tired of a thousand different salesmen and Youtubers making money off ruining our name. And there are even more people out there seeking to make a quick buck by selling ads on videos about getting free movies and TV while using Kodi in their channel name to make their content seem official, as if those videos are coming from us.”

There has already been vigorous debate in the Kodi forums over how far the team will be prepared to go, with suggestions that even people monetizing “Kodi tips” could become a target.

Kodi aren't taking legal action against Box sellers.

The police are, at the behest of copyright holders.

I dread to think how many 50 quid a month Sky subs have been cancelled by people who've found how to stream them instead.

And the dicks just put their prices up again!

Kodi did threaten to sue anyone using the Kodi name, which led to a rake of Group name changes on FB.

[TheCruncher]

Kodi is open source and will always be, that are actually the basics behind the Kodi community.

What is the problem is that Kodi was created to stream media from your own private server or other private sources. Never was Kodi intended to stream live content, and certainly not for pirated content. That is also the reason why they are taking legal action against sellers of pre-loaded boxes, because Kodi don't want to be associated with those illegal practices.

https://torrentfreak.com/kodi-announces-legal-action-to-smash-piracy-links-160215/

The problem in a nutshell

Kodi is just a media player, it carries no content. However, Kodi has the ability to run third party plugins that in many instances make infringing content available to the user. So, when people load Kodi with plugins recommended by a friend and then see the latest movies listed, they believe that Kodi – and the people behind Kodi – are the ones providing them with the movies.

<snip>

“Most of all, we are tired of a thousand different salesmen and Youtubers making money off ruining our name. And there are even more people out there seeking to make a quick buck by selling ads on videos about getting free movies and TV while using Kodi in their channel name to make their content seem official, as if those videos are coming from us.”

There has already been vigorous debate in the Kodi forums over how far the team will be prepared to go, with suggestions that even people monetizing “Kodi tips” could become a target.

Kodi aren't taking legal action against Box sellers.

The police are, at the behest of copyright holders.

I dread to think how many 50 quid a month Sky subs have been cancelled by people who've found how to stream them instead.

And the dicks just put their prices up again!

Kodi did threaten to sue anyone using the Kodi name, which led to a rake of Group name changes on FB.

Kodi is a copyright holder since the Kodi name is a registered trademark.

They are taking legal action, ok lets be pedantic and say the police takes legal action at the request of Kodi, to box sellers who use the description preloaded Kodi.

http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/34019/20160216/kodi-xbmc-copyright-infringement-piracy-nathan-betzen-ebay-amazon.htm

XBMC Foundation, the producers of Kodi media player, announced their serious intentions to take legal action against users that violate copyright infringement or piracy laws. The legal action will also be taken against sellers of the product that advertise the app as having add-ons or plug-ins, or such products that fail to deliver.

Read more at http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/34019/20160216/kodi-xbmc-copyright-infringement-piracy-nathan-betzen-ebay-amazon.htm#z9k2TlJ6ZzkW7o6c.99

And this is from the horse mouth.

https://kodi.tv/the-piracy-box-sellers-and-youtube-promoters-are-killing-kodi/

Our solution to this problem is pretty straightforward. We now own the trademark to Kodi, and we plan to use it to finally battle the mass confusion created by those seeking to profit on unaware users.

This means we will issue trademark takedown notices anywhere we think the likelihood for confusion is high. If you are selling a box on your website designed to trick users into thinking broken add-ons come from us and work perfectly, so you can make a buck, we’re going to do everything we can to stop you. If you are making a video in which you claim to be a Kodi developer or Kodi team member or you are just using the Kodi name while assuring users that some pirate add-on is totally legal and isn’t going to break next week, we will do everything we can to take you down.

[Chicog]

Kodi don't lose money off a pirated stream. Sky/HBO/DishTV etc. do.

I have yet to see Kodi do a thing except to threaten.

[JHolmesJr]

Kodi is just covering their ass....by putting out anti piracy statements. As their lawyers would have instructed.

When someone goes and shoots up a school, smith and wesson doesnt get sued.

If anything the law should go after the sites that host the streams. Or the guys who make the boxes.

Leave us the hell alone.

[Chicog]

The UK's Police Intellectual Property Crime Unit is continuing its crackdown against sellers of piracy-enabled TV devices. Their latest target is a 38-year-old man who was arrested in London on suspicion of fraud and copyright related offenses. Police seized more than 500 alleged 'pirate' devices and are now threatening a domain suspension.

Last week officers from the UK’s Police Intellectual Property Crime Unit (PIPCU) arrested six individuals suspected of being involved in the supply of ‘pirate’ Internet-enabled set-top boxes.

Aimed at hampering the popularity of Android and similar devices used to access free movies, TV shows and live sports, the multi-location raids netted just 42 devices. Now it appears that the police have hit a relative jackpot.

PIPCU say that after executing two search warrants at a business premises and home address in East London, more than 500 Internet-enabled ‘pirate’ boxes have been seized. Police say they had been configured to illegally access subscription-only services.

Police have also confirmed the arrest of a 38-year-old man who was detained on suspicion of making and/or supplying articles for use in fraud, conspiracy to defraud, and two further offenses under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act and Proceeds of Crime Act.

PIPCU say that its investigation began in February 2016 after a broadcaster complained that modified devices were being sold both on the Internet and from a shop in Walthamstow. Details coming out of PIPCU are scarce but it’s possible that the broadcaster in question was either Sky TV and/or the Premier League, whose content is widely offered for streaming via these kinds of units.

[tlcwaterfall]

Would it not be a better option for Sky Sports and other providers to simply make their product available around the world via an app?

Charge a fair price and many people would happily subscribe.

I realise there may be copyright issues but Sky and other companies could work these out quite easily.

Netflix is a good example but obviously they only do movies, docos and tv shows

It works very well as it is a quality app.

I personally only want a reliable way to watch live sport without the constant buffering I am currently getting.

And happy to pay a fair price also.

[Don Mega]

Netflix, Quality App ?

I access direct via the www. address, no app needed.

[tlcwaterfall]

Netflix, Quality App ?

I access direct via the www. address, no app needed.

Who cares if you use the app or the website?

What are you gaining by using tbe website over the app?

[Chicog]

Would it not be a better option for Sky Sports and other providers to simply make their product available around the world via an app?

Charge a fair price and many people would happily subscribe.

I realise there may be copyright issues but Sky and other companies could work these out quite easily.

The problem is that other people have the rights and would not take kindly to Sky undercutting them.

The current company with the rights to stream EPL are CTH, and they've made no effort to exploit that platform, hence the gap being filled by ILikeHD, 365Sport, etc.

BeIn are a different animal, and they may assist True (if they get the rights) in setting up online streaming if they don't already have it.

Then expect them to go after the pirates.

[2fishin2]

Netflix, Quality App ?

I access direct via the www. address, no app needed.

Who cares if you use the app or the website?

What are you gaining by using tbe website over the app?

Biggest difference between going through a website or app is the popups and trickery that happens using a direct website. Its a big deal trying to get through a myriad of pop ups and with apps, you have none of that.

Netflix media is also old. Where with Kodi, you get new shows and schedules.

[tlcwaterfall]

Netflix, Quality App ?

I access direct via the www. address, no app needed.

Who cares if you use the app or the website?

What are you gaining by using tbe website over the app?

Biggest difference between going through a website or app is the popups and trickery that happens using a direct website. Its a big deal trying to get through a myriad of pop ups and with apps, you have none of that.

Netflix media is also old. Where with Kodi, you get new shows and schedules.

House of cards season 4.

Orange is the new black.

Making a murderer.

And many other shows made by Netflix. Not all their shows are old.

Not all people want new content.

Many like the convenience that Netflix offers.

[tlcwaterfall]

Would it not be a better option for Sky Sports and other providers to simply make their product available around the world via an app?

Charge a fair price and many people would happily subscribe.

I realise there may be copyright issues but Sky and other companies could work these out quite easily.

The problem is that other people have the rights and would not take kindly to Sky undercutting them.

The current company with the rights to stream EPL are CTH, and they've made no effort to exploit that platform, hence the gap being filled by ILikeHD, 365Sport, etc.

BeIn are a different animal, and they may assist True (if they get the rights) in setting up online streaming if they don't already have it.

Then expect them to go after the pirates.

As I mentioned work through the copyright issues and then offer the content around the world.

Companies such as Cth and True need to make a profit and the subscribers are providing that profit.

Why have a middleman when you can offer your product direct to your customers?

The emergence of Netflix, Iflix etc. are examples of how this would work.

[Chicog]

Companies such as Cth and True need to make a profit and the subscribers are providing that profit.

Because companies like CTH and True are paying big bucks for sports rights.

The last thing they want is someone undercutting them.

I don't really get why you find it so difficult.

Talksport have the rights to stream their own commentary of EPL games anywhere but IN the UK, that's because the EPL don't normally bother selling those rights to anyway.

Handy if you're stuck in traffic.

But TV rights are a different animal.

Why do you think Sky/EPL keep going to court to nobble pub landlords who ditch paying them 3 grand a month for a Sky box and instead use a Greek or Polish card, or worse a Dreambox?

Added: The EPL atcually cut off most of the EPL games from BeIn sports once, because people could buy their cards for <$250 and watch EPL all over Europe.

[Don Mega]

Netflix, Quality App ?

I access direct via the www. address, no app needed.

Who cares if you use the app or the website?

What are you gaining by using tbe website over the app?

Biggest difference between going through a website or app is the popups and trickery that happens using a direct website. Its a big deal trying to get through a myriad of pop ups and with apps, you have none of that.

Netflix media is also old. Where with Kodi, you get new shows and schedules.

pop ups on the website, really ?

Ive never had a single one.

[tlcwaterfall]

Companies such as Cth and True need to make a profit and the subscribers are providing that profit.

Because companies like CTH and True are paying big bucks for sports rights.

The last thing they want is someone undercutting them.

I don't really get why you find it so difficult.

Talksport have the rights to stream their own commentary of EPL games anywhere but IN the UK, that's because the EPL don't normally bother selling those rights to anyway.

Handy if you're stuck in traffic.

But TV rights are a different animal.

Why do you think Sky/EPL keep going to court to nobble pub landlords who ditch paying them 3 grand a month for a Sky box and instead use a Greek or Polish card, or worse a Dreambox?

Added: The EPL atcually cut off most of the EPL games from BeIn sports once, because people could buy their cards for <$250 and watch EPL all over Europe.

CTH and True and other companies around the world pay "big bucks" as you have correctly said for the rights to EPL and other content.

This results in the consumer paying extra for the service as all pay tv providers add their profit margin and then charge the consumer accordingly.

If Sky sports and other content providers did not use these pay tv providers it potentially would result in a lower price for consumers.

And with internet streaming it also makes it available to more consumers.

They could of course offer their content via an app as well as still making it available to the pay tv providers.

This model works very well in Australia with the AFL football.

And because of the increased competition this does result in lower prices and more choice for the consumers.

[Chicog]

Companies such as Cth and True need to make a profit and the subscribers are providing that profit.

Because companies like CTH and True are paying big bucks for sports rights.

The last thing they want is someone undercutting them.

I don't really get why you find it so difficult.

Talksport have the rights to stream their own commentary of EPL games anywhere but IN the UK, that's because the EPL don't normally bother selling those rights to anyway.

Handy if you're stuck in traffic.

But TV rights are a different animal.

Why do you think Sky/EPL keep going to court to nobble pub landlords who ditch paying them 3 grand a month for a Sky box and instead use a Greek or Polish card, or worse a Dreambox?

Added: The EPL atcually cut off most of the EPL games from BeIn sports once, because people could buy their cards for <$250 and watch EPL all over Europe.

CTH and True and other companies around the world pay "big bucks" as you have correctly said for the rights to EPL and other content.

This results in the consumer paying extra for the service as all pay tv providers add their profit margin and then charge the consumer accordingly.

If Sky sports and other content providers did not use these pay tv providers it potentially would result in a lower price for consumers.

And with internet streaming it also makes it available to more consumers.

They could of course offer their content via an app as well as still making it available to the pay tv providers.

This model works very well in Australia with the AFL football.

And because of the increased competition this does result in lower prices and more choice for the consumers.

That is a completely different issue.

And by the way, Sky sports don't sell their wares to "Pay TV providers", they ARE a "Pay TV provider".

As are CTH, Bein, True, Astro, etc.

The Premier League are selling their product and they want the maximum revenue they can get.

Part of that is protecting the rights of the people to whom they sell it.