Reincarnation belief and thai buddhists

[rockyysdt]

Why any need for speculation?

The Buddha laid it all down often in his teachings. Members here like to quote sources like 'Access to Insight', but then in the next breath seem to doubt the truth of the teachings.

There are many teachings about the various types of karma which will take effect as we die and lead us to our next rebirth. Death proximate karma, habitual karma, weighty karma etc.

http://www.buddhanet.net/t_karma.htm

Kharma doesn't take affect.

Kharma is an adjective.

It is what we do or have done.

You mean vipaka or the fruits of Kharma

[thai3]

where is the proof that anyone ever was re born? like karma it's a fairy tale and a prop.

[nongai]

where is the proof that anyone ever was re born? like karma it's a fairy tale and a prop.

There is never proof for those with a closed mind.

For those with an open mind there are many examples of people remembering past lives, and for those who are prepared to accept that the great teacher, the Buddha, was unlikely to lie, there are also many teachings and examples in the scriptures.

[rockyysdt]

Why any need for speculation?

The Buddha laid it all down often in his teachings. Members here like to quote sources like 'Access to Insight', but then in the next breath seem to doubt the truth of the teachings.

There are many teachings about the various types of karma which will take effect as we die and lead us to our next rebirth. Death proximate karma, habitual karma, weighty karma etc.

http://www.buddhanet.net/t_karma.htm

The Buddha said the body and mind are impermanent and conditioned.

Re Birth takes place many many times per second.

At such a rapid pace that it gives our ego the illusion that there is something inside which many call spirit or soul.

The Buddha taught that we are impermanent and conditioned and there is nothing inside which one may call soul or spirit.

If there is Re Birth into a future life, rest assured it won't be you who is re born.

This has nothing to do with what the Buddha taught.

Re Birth moment to moment fits in perfectly with the Buddhas teaching, which were to shed attachment to greed, aversion & delusion, thus braking the hold of Dukkha.

[rockyysdt]

where is the proof that anyone ever was re born? like karma it's a fairy tale and a prop.

There is never proof for those with a closed mind.

For those with an open mind there are many examples of people remembering past lives, and for those who are prepared to accept that the great teacher, the Buddha, was unlikely to lie, there are also many teachings and examples in the scriptures.

One must tread warily with this subject.

The Ego desires continuation of life.

Re Birth, even if associated with a negative existence future life, is an offer of immortality.

You are either Re Born ad infinitum, or you reach Nibanna (continuance of existence)

The Ego loves the concept of Re Birth and Nibanna the place.

What happens beyond death is a subject for speculation.

The Buddha would not be drawn.

He indicated, it was much better to focus on practice.

Edited May 23, 2016 by rockyysdt

[thai3]

cut the fancy talk and lets have some proof of reincarnation, with 6 billion people there must be thousands of cases? How does it work? where do the new souls never born come from, must be a couple of billion of them by now, or were they all animals before?

[camerata]

What proof do you require? How could I possibly prove to you that I was once a Tang Dynasty Chinese scholar? According to Theravada Buddhism, if you meditate until you reach the 3rd jhana you'll be able to read your past lives, and will understand. But no one can do that for you. Also, it is said that all doubts are resolved on reaching the first stage of enlightenment (sotapanna). The Buddha did not discuss anything that would be a distraction to the goal of nirvana. Nirvana is the goal, not rebirth.

[nongai]

cut the fancy talk and lets have some proof of reincarnation, with 6 billion people there must be thousands of cases? How does it work? where do the new souls never born come from, must be a couple of billion of them by now, or were they all animals before?

Although the Christian faith describes each new birth as a new soul being created Buddhism has quite a different stance.

According to Buddhist belief the past is infinite as is the future. All beings in all the 31 realms have always existed, going round the continual cycle of rebirth according to their karma.

The human realm is actually the smallest since it is extremely difficult to take rebirth in that realm. The four lower realms, animal, hells, hungry ghosts & demons, comprise the vast majority of beings.

Once the Buddha reached down and picked up some dirt on his fingernail, asking his companions "which is the greater, this dirt here or the whole earth?" After his companions said that there was no comparison he relied "This small amount of dirt compares to beings in the human realm, whereas the whole earth to beings in the four lower realms of misery."

Thus there is no shortage of beings to be reborn human, however it is easy to fall into rebirth in the lower realms, escape from which is extremely difficult.

Again he gave an example. A blind turtle, free to wander in all the oceans, comes to the surface once every hundred years. Upon the surface floats a yoke (of a wheel once the hub and spokes are removed), pushed this way and that bu wind and current and tide. What is the chance that upon surfacing the head of the turtle will come up in the wooden yoke. This is how difficult to attain rebirth from the lower realms into the human realm.

So this is why we are encouraged to practice, here and now in this lifetime, to attain the safety of the Four Noble states and escape the possibility of rebirth in the lower realms.

[nongai]

If there is Re Birth into a future life, rest assured it won't be you who is re born.

Not me as such because there is continual change, experience, creating and using up karma. However it will be a continuation of this mind stream. Although I can remember details about my early life, but not past existences, this mindstream will experience death and thence rebirth according to karma and the sufferings and/or pleasures during that future lifetime.

[thai3]

What proof do you require? How could I possibly prove to you that I was once a Tang Dynasty Chinese scholar? According to Theravada Buddhism, if you meditate until you reach the 3rd jhana you'll be able to read your past lives, and will understand. But no one can do that for you. Also, it is said that all doubts are resolved on reaching the first stage of enlightenment (sotapanna). The Buddha did not discuss anything that would be a distraction to the goal of nirvana. Nirvana is the goal, not rebirth.

so there is no proof then only faith in something people hope to be true, it's merely another belief and not reality?

[camerata]

What proof do you require? How could I possibly prove to you that I was once a Tang Dynasty Chinese scholar? According to Theravada Buddhism, if you meditate until you reach the 3rd jhana you'll be able to read your past lives, and will understand. But no one can do that for you. Also, it is said that all doubts are resolved on reaching the first stage of enlightenment (sotapanna). The Buddha did not discuss anything that would be a distraction to the goal of nirvana. Nirvana is the goal, not rebirth.

so there is no proof then only faith in something people hope to be true, it's merely another belief and not reality?

How could there ever be a scientific proof? Like nirvana, it's something we can only know for ourselves, and everyone is free to believe it or not. Some Buddhists are agnostic about it.

[thai3]

who knows nirvana on here? that's pie in the sky the same as heaven an hell, just more faith and belief backed up by nothing.

[camerata]

Nirvana is a state of being, not a place. How would you know if anyone has experienced it or not? Buddhists use the Buddha's teachings as a means to a happier life. If you don't believe any of it, that's not a problem for us.

[thai3]

who is 'us'? No i don't believe anyone on here has experienced nirvana or has been reborn, I don't believe in karma either. I think people use the teachings of the Buddha as a prop like any other religious beliefs.

[nongai]

who is 'us'? No i don't believe anyone on here has experienced nirvana or has been reborn, I don't believe in karma either. I think people use the teachings of the Buddha as a prop like any other religious beliefs.

Fine..... goodbye..... no reason to come back here then.... just displaying your prejudice and ignorance by coming here to bash. Unlike the Christian and some other religions, which go about trying to convert others, Buddhism does not.

If you get the message you can shorten your struggle, otherwise you will be back in the soup for a long long time.